Sign In
Register
No smoke as of yet other than solder smoke dont worry yet wozza lol
Dei 530t 2way Total Closure
MultiQuote
#22
Geoffers 
- ELECTRONICS CHAP
-
- Group: Gold Members
- Posts: 2,326
- Joined: 02-January 03
- Gender:Male
-
Location:Liverpool, UK
-
Lexus Model:IS250 SE-L MM
Posted 05 April 2008 - 09:41 PM
Just make the circuit up mate - you'll end up with no hair!
I admire your determination - I really do but you could have had this all made up and done by now using my circuit!
How are you getting around it activating by the internal lock switch if the ignition is off? You won't see where the axe murderer is creeping up on you at the side of your car if the mirrors close on you.
Here's some answers to your questions so hope they help :
You should be able to do this with just 2 wires to the motor. Also, can you not take the negative internal timer it has of its own and use that? Open it up - you may see a pot you can adjust for this time.
If you need a timer anyway, you may as well just build the circuit!
You can make a small circuit to swap from positve continuous output to single negative pulse:
Any NPN tranny will do, I use a BC547 or 548
Yes - have one side of the coil to perm positive and use the neg output to power it from your closure for the 5 secs like so.....
(Check your relay - on the diagram here, the common is central as you can see.)
Also, you have different cabling controlling your mirrors. I'm assuming you've picked this up elsewhere. Just for info, this is in the drivers footwell, main door connector and works across all models.
I can't criticise (and I'm NOT) because I did exactly the same as you. As I say, I do admire what you are doing and best of luck.
The advantages are that you learn so much about the car by doing these things. I have utmost respect for people like yourself who keep at it! (No - I'm not patronising you - I mean it)
If you do build the closure unit, just add this circuit to the relay contacts and it will power the windows. Just two wires to each window.
There's no chance of a short because if there is a fault and there's power to the motor on the downside, it will give two positives acros the motor so no current. If it goes on the upside then this is fine as it will just power the window as normal as the neg will be correct.
Its just a case of finding the positive wire when the window is winding up and breaking into it. These DO vary across models so advise you check.
I admire your determination - I really do but you could have had this all made up and done by now using my circuit!
How are you getting around it activating by the internal lock switch if the ignition is off? You won't see where the axe murderer is creeping up on you at the side of your car if the mirrors close on you.
Here's some answers to your questions so hope they help :
Rabster, on Apr 5 2008, 03:32 PM, said:
Ok we have mixed Success here
I can interface it with the drivers door (yes i know it allready has 1 touch on it) but this elimates the factory one and takes full controll down side you have 2 run 4 wires into the door not a majour problem, here is the fun part you need a timer circuit still to roll the windows up by this i mean we need a negative latch for around 7.5sec in order to roll up one window from what i understand we will still only need a maximum of 10 seconds for all 4 windows.
I can interface it with the drivers door (yes i know it allready has 1 touch on it) but this elimates the factory one and takes full controll down side you have 2 run 4 wires into the door not a majour problem, here is the fun part you need a timer circuit still to roll the windows up by this i mean we need a negative latch for around 7.5sec in order to roll up one window from what i understand we will still only need a maximum of 10 seconds for all 4 windows.
You should be able to do this with just 2 wires to the motor. Also, can you not take the negative internal timer it has of its own and use that? Open it up - you may see a pot you can adjust for this time.
If you need a timer anyway, you may as well just build the circuit!
Quote
but on the plus side if we can make the factory alarm giv a single negative pulse you can vent the windows in the summer.
You can make a small circuit to swap from positve continuous output to single negative pulse:
Any NPN tranny will do, I use a BC547 or 548
Quote
Also on the box there is another wire which gives a neagtive charge for 5 seconds once all windows are closed Possibly usefull to flip a relay circuit to close the mirrors (geoffers might be able to offer advice here) or back up my theory pretty please lol
Yes - have one side of the coil to perm positive and use the neg output to power it from your closure for the 5 secs like so.....
(Check your relay - on the diagram here, the common is central as you can see.)
Also, you have different cabling controlling your mirrors. I'm assuming you've picked this up elsewhere. Just for info, this is in the drivers footwell, main door connector and works across all models.
Quote
my thoughts on the mirror clousre part is upon turning of the ignition a relay switches back to standard alowinf a positive 12v through but no ground (eliminating talk back when ignition on and allowing switch to still be used to close mirrors) so that once all the windows are up the 5seconds of ground pulse the box gives would be sufficiant enough to close the mirrors
in this case you would need to run i think 6 cables into the drivers door as we all know there isnt many places to hide anything in the dash area however there is a lovely little cubby hole on drivers side under the carpet before you his he cross section and it does pretrude upwards if u stash things in there, failing that run all cables to drivers side in boot and hide
these are just my feelings and not full suggestions, let meknow your thoughts though
in this case you would need to run i think 6 cables into the drivers door as we all know there isnt many places to hide anything in the dash area however there is a lovely little cubby hole on drivers side under the carpet before you his he cross section and it does pretrude upwards if u stash things in there, failing that run all cables to drivers side in boot and hide
these are just my feelings and not full suggestions, let meknow your thoughts though
I can't criticise (and I'm NOT) because I did exactly the same as you. As I say, I do admire what you are doing and best of luck.
The advantages are that you learn so much about the car by doing these things. I have utmost respect for people like yourself who keep at it! (No - I'm not patronising you - I mean it)
If you do build the closure unit, just add this circuit to the relay contacts and it will power the windows. Just two wires to each window.
There's no chance of a short because if there is a fault and there's power to the motor on the downside, it will give two positives acros the motor so no current. If it goes on the upside then this is fine as it will just power the window as normal as the neg will be correct.
Its just a case of finding the positive wire when the window is winding up and breaking into it. These DO vary across models so advise you check.
#23
Rabster
- Established Member
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 11-November 06
- Gender:Male
Posted 05 April 2008 - 11:12 PM
hey all
I agree i could have had it done by now doing it that way, but there is no fun some one has done thae hard work allready, plus i fancied a challenge
Oh and i think im starting to loose my hair any 1 from the last 2 meets feel free to comment on that lol
The reason for the 4 wires to each door it it also allows the 1 touch feature to be added in along with its own current sensing i have to admit i didnt try it without the 2 wires for the switch the diagram showed it with the 2 wires in it acts as an ecu for the windows it self, i was thinking maybe of dissabling the internal window ecu and using just these 2 boxes now......
the master switch on the drivers door for all the windows does it multiplex the signal to the other doors into the ecu or a direct wire to the doors i forgot 2 look my bad lol
the question is though which button on the reomte will that respond to....
im thinking of finding the seperate output on the alarm module for the boot i.e single press to vent windows push and hold still opens boot, will play with this after everything else works i think
What flavour of relay would you recomend or do you use in your circuit are they avaliable at maplins might pop there this afternoon to finish it all of on monday.......
Belive me it was very tempting just to make your circuit Geoff but i was thinking about it more and more and the extra effot of the 2 wires to add one touch to each door was growing on me and then the added bonus of the negative 5 second output for the mirrors it does kind of do everything you and i have been discussing
i will have a full colour code and wire reference for all 4 doors once this is completed and it will be done in time for JAE i hope lol so any one who is intrested can take a peak
Well since it started raining at 4pm i have been making the customs looms to put it all in the car and terminating everything up at the box ends i forgot how time consumin preping and soldering joints is
Quote
Just make the circuit up mate - you'll end up with no hair!
I admire your determination - I really do but you could have had this all made up and done by now using my circuit!
How are you getting around it activating by the internal lock switch if the ignition is off? You won't see where the axe murderer is creeping up on you at the side of your car if the mirrors close on you.
I admire your determination - I really do but you could have had this all made up and done by now using my circuit!
How are you getting around it activating by the internal lock switch if the ignition is off? You won't see where the axe murderer is creeping up on you at the side of your car if the mirrors close on you.
I agree i could have had it done by now doing it that way, but there is no fun some one has done thae hard work allready, plus i fancied a challenge
Oh and i think im starting to loose my hair any 1 from the last 2 meets feel free to comment on that lol
Quote
You should be able to do this with just 2 wires to the motor. Also, can you not take the negative internal timer it has of its own and use that? Open it up - you may see a pot you can adjust for this time.
If you need a timer anyway, you may as well just build the circuit!
If you need a timer anyway, you may as well just build the circuit!
The reason for the 4 wires to each door it it also allows the 1 touch feature to be added in along with its own current sensing i have to admit i didnt try it without the 2 wires for the switch the diagram showed it with the 2 wires in it acts as an ecu for the windows it self, i was thinking maybe of dissabling the internal window ecu and using just these 2 boxes now......
the master switch on the drivers door for all the windows does it multiplex the signal to the other doors into the ecu or a direct wire to the doors i forgot 2 look my bad lol
Quote
You can make a small circuit to swap from positve continuous output to single negative pulse:
the question is though which button on the reomte will that respond to....
im thinking of finding the seperate output on the alarm module for the boot i.e single press to vent windows push and hold still opens boot, will play with this after everything else works i think
Quote
Yes - have one side of the coil to perm positive and use the neg output to power it from your closure for the 5 secs like so.....
(Check your relay - on the diagram here, the common is central as you can see.)
Also, you have different cabling controlling your mirrors. I'm assuming you've picked this up elsewhere. Just for info, this is in the drivers footwell, main door connector and works across all models
(Check your relay - on the diagram here, the common is central as you can see.)
Also, you have different cabling controlling your mirrors. I'm assuming you've picked this up elsewhere. Just for info, this is in the drivers footwell, main door connector and works across all models
What flavour of relay would you recomend or do you use in your circuit are they avaliable at maplins might pop there this afternoon to finish it all of on monday.......
Belive me it was very tempting just to make your circuit Geoff but i was thinking about it more and more and the extra effot of the 2 wires to add one touch to each door was growing on me and then the added bonus of the negative 5 second output for the mirrors it does kind of do everything you and i have been discussing
i will have a full colour code and wire reference for all 4 doors once this is completed and it will be done in time for JAE i hope lol so any one who is intrested can take a peak
Well since it started raining at 4pm i have been making the customs looms to put it all in the car and terminating everything up at the box ends i forgot how time consumin preping and soldering joints is
#24
Geoffers
- ELECTRONICS CHAP
-
- Group: Gold Members
- Posts: 2,326
- Joined: 02-January 03
- Gender:Male
-
Location:Liverpool, UK
-
Lexus Model:IS250 SE-L MM
Posted 06 April 2008 - 12:03 AM
Great stuff mate and yes you are right - doing it yourself, exactly how you want it is the best and most fulfilling way although frustrating at times.
I use any relays I can get my hands on to be honest. I always go for dpco (double pole changeover) as you can do anything with them even if you don't use half of it. I get myself a load every now and again from ebay. The way you are going I suggest you get some as you will probably be doing a lot more with the electrics.....
The master switch multiplexes to the other doors which is a pain and how I found out about the LED thing holding them on...
The circuit I have drawn there responds the the alarm being activated. I.e. the first lock of the doors by remote. It was the only completely separate signal I could find. (Certainly in the drivers kickpanel. Must admit, never looked far in the passenger side.
Keep us informed matey.
I use any relays I can get my hands on to be honest. I always go for dpco (double pole changeover) as you can do anything with them even if you don't use half of it. I get myself a load every now and again from ebay. The way you are going I suggest you get some as you will probably be doing a lot more with the electrics.....
The master switch multiplexes to the other doors which is a pain and how I found out about the LED thing holding them on...
The circuit I have drawn there responds the the alarm being activated. I.e. the first lock of the doors by remote. It was the only completely separate signal I could find. (Certainly in the drivers kickpanel. Must admit, never looked far in the passenger side.
Keep us informed matey.
#25
Rabster
- Established Member
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 11-November 06
- Gender:Male
Posted 06 April 2008 - 07:45 AM
BIt of subject here but i dont think the car wants me to do this as there is about 2 inches of show outside now
Ok the only problem with using that circuit i can see is it will giv conflicting information to the box when you try to lock the car to roll the windows up i will try to vent them at the same time which wont work lol
but i shall press on
Ok the only problem with using that circuit i can see is it will giv conflicting information to the box when you try to lock the car to roll the windows up i will try to vent them at the same time which wont work lol
but i shall press on
#26
Rabster
- Established Member
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 11-November 06
- Gender:Male
Posted 06 April 2008 - 01:21 PM
Ok we now have the following made
4 door looms push conector to single strand cables for termination to in door wires
2 main car looms 1 down each side terminated with push connectors to link to door looms
1 Relay loom for the mirrors to fold in (fingers crossed this will work)
Right i have been working dince my last post so no time to try the new ooms out, but today i finished my service work early and after a trip up A&E it was time to take some parts of the car
i have no made the front 2 windows work of the unit quite hapily and very easy now i have done all the hard work tracing the wires etc, this now gives us window roll up on front to windows one touch is also in there from the drivers door as well yes boys and girls drivers door 2 i was wondering about what would happen with this as to if it would work due to multiplex signals and seperate ecu for the windows but the clever people at lexus put a relay in the door which gets the feed from the ecu to trigger the switch automaticly thus one touch all round
the only issue at the moment which i will not be beaten on i have come this far is that the window will either roll all the way down or all the way up there is no stopping half way etc there is a solution just not found it yet.............
with regards to the negative lock output from the central locking wire i think to play it safe i will attach a seperate relay here with a 1amp fuse so that when the ignition is on tand you lock the door there is no chance it will accidently trigger the windows to roll up and close the mirrors if any of you are like me you drive into a roaugh area and you lock the doors (ok i hear you say surely this is a good thing windows are shut mirrors are in no one can get in) of course this little extra curcit is optional lol
i think these unit will be ideal for every one who wants the above features on there car and it is easy to do
let me know your thoughts guys
4 door looms push conector to single strand cables for termination to in door wires
2 main car looms 1 down each side terminated with push connectors to link to door looms
1 Relay loom for the mirrors to fold in (fingers crossed this will work)
Right i have been working dince my last post so no time to try the new ooms out, but today i finished my service work early and after a trip up A&E it was time to take some parts of the car
i have no made the front 2 windows work of the unit quite hapily and very easy now i have done all the hard work tracing the wires etc, this now gives us window roll up on front to windows one touch is also in there from the drivers door as well yes boys and girls drivers door 2 i was wondering about what would happen with this as to if it would work due to multiplex signals and seperate ecu for the windows but the clever people at lexus put a relay in the door which gets the feed from the ecu to trigger the switch automaticly thus one touch all round
the only issue at the moment which i will not be beaten on i have come this far is that the window will either roll all the way down or all the way up there is no stopping half way etc there is a solution just not found it yet.............
with regards to the negative lock output from the central locking wire i think to play it safe i will attach a seperate relay here with a 1amp fuse so that when the ignition is on tand you lock the door there is no chance it will accidently trigger the windows to roll up and close the mirrors if any of you are like me you drive into a roaugh area and you lock the doors (ok i hear you say surely this is a good thing windows are shut mirrors are in no one can get in) of course this little extra curcit is optional lol
i think these unit will be ideal for every one who wants the above features on there car and it is easy to do
let me know your thoughts guys
#28
sparkystav
- Twin Turbo'd Non Moderator ;)
-
- Group: Gold Members
- Posts: 11,665
- Joined: 14-July 06
- Gender:Male
- Location:Lancashire
-
Location:Lancashire
-
Lexus Model:2001 IS200 Sport TT
Posted 08 April 2008 - 05:39 PM
Sounds like a good job fella,
Keep us posted.
Stav
Keep us posted.
Stav
#30
84Stoney
- Club Post Guru
-
- Group: Gold Members
- Posts: 1,211
- Joined: 15-December 07
- Gender:Male
-
Location:Exeter, UK
-
Lexus Model:IS200 Sport Supercharged
Posted 08 April 2008 - 08:07 PM
I've read all of this tread with interest, but think it may be a little beyond my capabilities.
I would really like auto-closure mirrors thou - i live in a tight one way street and fold them in all the time anyway!
Does anyone (Geoffers possibly) know where i may be able to source the relay device required for the mirrors as i think i could wire it from the guide.
While im in the kick panel i'll cut the relevent door open sensor wires. So i can remove the key from the ignition and then close the window without it stopping when i open the door (or, more often, my passenger opens their door)!
I would really like auto-closure mirrors thou - i live in a tight one way street and fold them in all the time anyway!
Does anyone (Geoffers possibly) know where i may be able to source the relay device required for the mirrors as i think i could wire it from the guide.
While im in the kick panel i'll cut the relevent door open sensor wires. So i can remove the key from the ignition and then close the window without it stopping when i open the door (or, more often, my passenger opens their door)!
#31
Rabster
- Established Member
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 11-November 06
- Gender:Male
Posted 08 April 2008 - 08:32 PM
hey Guys belive it or not this is reletively simple to do now, there are a few factors as to why its taken so long to get it done this way. like i wanted to use same unit to close mirrors this required a bit of hunting around but now i know what wires should do it once i can confirm it then i will post up the info
i also wanted to put connectors all over the place just to make it easy to put in and take out should i change cars or something break it then gives sections to check or more posible breaks catch 22 on that lol
the total closure geoffers designed is the simple way to do it and i think all the parts and a pre made timer puts it to about the same cost as one of these units....
hopefully finish it off this week and the thats done on to a boot build lol
i also wanted to put connectors all over the place just to make it easy to put in and take out should i change cars or something break it then gives sections to check or more posible breaks catch 22 on that lol
the total closure geoffers designed is the simple way to do it and i think all the parts and a pre made timer puts it to about the same cost as one of these units....
hopefully finish it off this week and the thats done on to a boot build lol
#32
Geoffers
- ELECTRONICS CHAP
-
- Group: Gold Members
- Posts: 2,326
- Joined: 02-January 03
- Gender:Male
-
Location:Liverpool, UK
-
Lexus Model:IS250 SE-L MM
Posted 08 April 2008 - 09:34 PM
Nice one Andrew.
Sorry to sound geeky, but don't you feel a good sense of achievement now?
Frustrating but worth it all in the end. Well done.
B4stoney - I'm trying to source a timer to attach to a relay but can't find a suitable one that will take the alarm trigger. I am still on the lookout though. (Not that its much help to you!!)
Sorry to sound geeky, but don't you feel a good sense of achievement now?
Frustrating but worth it all in the end. Well done.
B4stoney - I'm trying to source a timer to attach to a relay but can't find a suitable one that will take the alarm trigger. I am still on the lookout though. (Not that its much help to you!!)
#33
Einstein
- Just your LOCal genius !
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 2,460
- Joined: 20-July 07
- Gender:Male
-
Location:South Yorkshire
-
Lexus Model:GS 300 SE Navigator
Posted 08 April 2008 - 09:42 PM
Hi Geoffers...
You probably know about this one, but if not, here is one I have utilised before....
http://www.maplin.co...e...224&doy=8m4
quite a useful little device..
John
You probably know about this one, but if not, here is one I have utilised before....
http://www.maplin.co...e...224&doy=8m4
quite a useful little device..
John
#34
Rabster
- Established Member
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 11-November 06
- Gender:Male
Posted 08 April 2008 - 09:52 PM
yeah it is good to finally get somewhere i mean i have been looking at doing this for a while but health issues also had slowed me down a lot but the effot has been worth it now, once i get it all in then i will be happy lol and im a prfectionist so all my looms have had to be dressed nicely in shrinkable braiding all joint soldered and heat shrunk you all know how it is lol
not that anyone will see my lovely cable work sob sob
alao i think stav posted a link to a commercial timer from CPC in another post, also i think the dei box will work as a stand alone without the windoews connected just the mirrors will try this another day though
not that anyone will see my lovely cable work sob sob
alao i think stav posted a link to a commercial timer from CPC in another post, also i think the dei box will work as a stand alone without the windoews connected just the mirrors will try this another day though
#35
Geoffers
- ELECTRONICS CHAP
-
- Group: Gold Members
- Posts: 2,326
- Joined: 02-January 03
- Gender:Male
-
Location:Liverpool, UK
-
Lexus Model:IS250 SE-L MM
Posted 08 April 2008 - 09:54 PM
Great stuff Einstein - not seen that one.
Their earlier model of this wanted a edge trigger. With a constant 12v high, the timer wouldn't stop. (I know you could put a cap and resistor to make it edge triggered but trying to keep it as simple as poss. for people)
Do you know if this is fine with a constant +12v on the trigger? Just looking for some decent info on it.....
Their earlier model of this wanted a edge trigger. With a constant 12v high, the timer wouldn't stop. (I know you could put a cap and resistor to make it edge triggered but trying to keep it as simple as poss. for people)
Do you know if this is fine with a constant +12v on the trigger? Just looking for some decent info on it.....
Einstein, on Apr 8 2008, 10:42 PM, said:
Hi Geoffers...
You probably know about this one, but if not, here is one I have utilised before....
http://www.maplin.co...e...224&doy=8m4
quite a useful little device..
John
You probably know about this one, but if not, here is one I have utilised before....
http://www.maplin.co...e...224&doy=8m4
quite a useful little device..
John
#36
sparkystav
- Twin Turbo'd Non Moderator ;)
-
- Group: Gold Members
- Posts: 11,665
- Joined: 14-July 06
- Gender:Male
- Location:Lancashire
-
Location:Lancashire
-
Lexus Model:2001 IS200 Sport TT
Posted 09 April 2008 - 07:20 AM
The one i use from CPC works a treat, it has a positive or negative trigger (changeable with a link) and a timed output.
Cant remember where the link was though
Stav
Cant remember where the link was though
Stav
#38
Einstein
- Just your LOCal genius !
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 2,460
- Joined: 20-July 07
- Gender:Male
-
Location:South Yorkshire
-
Lexus Model:GS 300 SE Navigator
Posted 09 April 2008 - 12:11 PM
Here you go Geoffers..
http://www.velleman....anual_mk111.pdf
although not a lot of detail..
Technical specifications:
5A output relay with dry switch-over contact
Pulse time adjustable between 0.5 and 5s
Pause time adjustable between 2.5 and 60s
Power supply: 12Vdc/100mA
Think I removed one of the pots and tweaked something when I used mine..
John
http://www.velleman....anual_mk111.pdf
although not a lot of detail..
Technical specifications:
5A output relay with dry switch-over contact
Pulse time adjustable between 0.5 and 5s
Pause time adjustable between 2.5 and 60s
Power supply: 12Vdc/100mA
Think I removed one of the pots and tweaked something when I used mine..
John
#39
Rabster
- Established Member
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 11-November 06
- Gender:Male
Posted 09 April 2008 - 04:37 PM
Ok been routing cables through car this afternoon both harnesses are in now down both side 3 out of the 4 doors have the wires in and working ran out of umph on the last door will do it later i think........
small problem though the negative output i though would work didnt feel like working the right way round, if i locked the door the windows stayed down however if i unlocked the door then the windows went up, so i may have made a mistake somewhere here i tried reseting the switches on the DEI boxes to change input polarity but that didnt have the reaction i wanted either infact it worked exactly the same so i think i need to find a new trigger wire in the footwell now
any suggesions for a constant negative in the foot well any one lol
small problem though the negative output i though would work didnt feel like working the right way round, if i locked the door the windows stayed down however if i unlocked the door then the windows went up, so i may have made a mistake somewhere here i tried reseting the switches on the DEI boxes to change input polarity but that didnt have the reaction i wanted either infact it worked exactly the same so i think i need to find a new trigger wire in the footwell now
any suggesions for a constant negative in the foot well any one lol
#40
sparkystav
- Twin Turbo'd Non Moderator ;)
-
- Group: Gold Members
- Posts: 11,665
- Joined: 14-July 06
- Gender:Male
- Location:Lancashire
-
Location:Lancashire
-
Lexus Model:2001 IS200 Sport TT
Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:15 PM
A constant negative?
Surely thats just Earth? ie any bolt?
Surely thats just Earth? ie any bolt?