Have just been stopped by the police.

My completely standard, factory fitted at manufacture, Lexus supplied front windows are too dark.

The only allow 38% of light through - they must allow 75%.


Have been given 14 days to resolve.

Which, as its the glass, not tints, means I am going to have to buy two new front windows.

If I don't - I can be prosecuted for defective parts.



How can Lexus be allowed to sell illegal equipped cars like this?

But Matt, I thought you were looking at getting tints on these windows, so surely they don't look tinted already?!

Have you got a side pic of the car? I've had a look at your pics in the thread when you got the car but can't really tell how dark they look because of the angles? Have you got a side shot?

Was their machine functioning correctly?

Have a word with Lexus as something doesn't sound right here mate, are they the green tinted windows?

[quote]But Matt, I thought you were looking at getting tints on these windows, so surely they don't look tinted already?![/quote]

the rears are darker than the front - was thinking of evening them up.

needless to say - those plans have just been filed under bin


[quote]Have you got a side pic of the car?[/quote]

not a plain side on shot - may try and get one later


[quote]Was their machine functioning correctly?[/quote]

dunno - he measured the front window, and that was@ 80% (but he measured quite near the top where there is a sunstrip type effect)


[quote]Have a word with Lexus as something doesn't sound right here mate, are they the green tinted windows?[/quote]

needless to say, both Lexus Nottingham and Lexus GB will be hearing from me on Monday

Is that sunstrip normal on these cars then?

Good luck getting it sorted mate, getting pulled over is the last thing you need at the end of the day - as a matter of interest, did they say anything about your number plate when they pulled you over?

[quote]Is that sunstrip normal on these cars then?[/quote]

yeah.

its not a Nova sunstrip I must quickly point out - its the glass itself is a darker shade.


[quote]Good luck getting it sorted mate, getting pulled over is the last thing you need at the end of the day - as a matter of interest, did they say anything about your number plate when they pulled you over?[/quote]

No

Went to the back of the car to get details, plate etc - bottom went [i]paaaarrrp[/i], as I thought he would do me for that too - but he just wrote the form out, and even spaced the plate correctly

Mate, - beleive it or not ... this can be very true.

A few years back, Essex Police were taking .... hmm I can't remember what company it was .... I think it was either Chrysler or Jeep to court for supplying illegally tinted front windows.

The current law however is that the front windows are to let in at least 75% light.

There is no legal limit for the back windows, however , if they are also tinted over 35% you are required to keep and maintain both of your wing mirrors.

IE : If you have NO TINTS.

And only one wing mirror, and a rear view mirror - you can not be prosecuted.

If you have REAR TINTS (over 35%)

You are required to have BOTH wing mirrors, or you can be prosecuted !

I never knew that Lexus were supplying Illegally fitted windows, if this is the case then Lexus GB can be liable for prosecution as a whole.

I would seek some proffesional Legal advice, about getting Lexus to replace your windows !

Hope this helps ......

MATT I AM ASSUMING YOU MEAN THE FRONT SIDE WINDOWS........

well, as the car is new, it will have a COC certificate of conformity, which means that the windows if std comply with ciurrent legistation not only in the UK but also in Europe.

id me more inclined to say the testing machine was defective.

[quote name='Supracharged-IS340' date='Oct 16 2004, 06:44 PM']MATT I AM ASSUMING YOU MEAN THE FRONT SIDE WINDOWS........

well, as the car is new, it will have a COC certificate of conformity, which means that the windows if std comply with ciurrent legistation not only in the UK but also in Europe.

id me more inclined to say the testing machine was defective.[/quote]
Exactly what i was thinking.

Why would such a prestigious car co as Lexus allow a detail such as this to slip through.....?it aint going to happen.

I bet he was straight out of Hendon/nappies and had a spotty face and prolly about 17.

[quote name='Scorpion' date='Oct 16 2004, 05:49 PM'][quote name='Supracharged-IS340' date='Oct 16 2004, 06:44 PM'] MATT I AM ASSUMING YOU MEAN THE FRONT SIDE WINDOWS........

well, as the car is new, it will have a COC certificate of conformity, which means that the windows if std comply with ciurrent legistation not only in the UK but also in Europe.

id me more inclined to say the testing machine was defective.[/quote]
Exactly what i was thinking.

Why would such a prestigious car co as Lexus allow a detail such as this to slip through.....?it aint going to happen.

I bet he was straight out of Hendon/nappies and had a spotty face and prolly about 17. [/quote]
Scorpian .... lol

If it was in the MET ... then it would have to have been a Traffic Officer .. and therefore would at least know what they were talking about ....

I'm not sure how county forces work though ...... but remember what I said in the previous post ..... A car company was once before taken to court because of illegally fitted tinted windows !

I have to leave the house now ...... I will be at Chartwell in the morning .... we can chat there !

C ya !

Matt, surely these windows were in when the car was MOT'd, if so then someone is making a big mistake - are they not ???

[quote name='ScarFace' date='Oct 16 2004, 06:53 PM'][quote name='Scorpion' date='Oct 16 2004, 05:49 PM'] [quote name='Supracharged-IS340' date='Oct 16 2004, 06:44 PM'] MATT I AM ASSUMING YOU MEAN THE FRONT SIDE WINDOWS........

well, as the car is new, it will have a COC certificate of conformity, which means that the windows if std comply with ciurrent legistation not only in the UK but also in Europe.

id me more inclined to say the testing machine was defective.[/quote]
Exactly what i was thinking.

Why would such a prestigious car co as Lexus allow a detail such as this to slip through.....?it aint going to happen.

I bet he was straight out of Hendon/nappies and had a spotty face and prolly about 17. [/quote]
Scorpian .... lol

If it was in the MET ... then it would have to have been a Traffic Officer .. and therefore would at least know what they were talking about ....

I'm not sure how county forces work though ...... but remember what I said in the previous post ..... A car company was once before taken to court because of illegally fitted tinted windows ! [/quote]
Damn......dont go yet... [quote]A car company was once before taken to court[/quote]

Do you not think other car co's would of taken notice of this.......?

OK - some pics.

This one makes the fronts look quite dark
[img]http://www.amjec.co.uk/albums/gs430/43600013_G.sized.jpg[/img]

this one looks lighter though
[img]http://www.amjec.co.uk/albums/gs430/43600014_G.sized.jpg[/img]

To show the effect the ambient light can have, two shots of the cars either side of mine. Both are 'old lady family cars' - completely unmodded in any way, shape or form.

[img]http://www.amjec.co.uk/albums/gs430/43600015_G.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.amjec.co.uk/albums/gs430/43600016_G.sized.jpg[/img]


This is the money shot though I think - front window and driver side in the same shot
[img]http://www.amjec.co.uk/albums/gs430/43600018_G.sized.jpg[/img]

sorry - but that does not look that dark to me.

Also shows the 'sun strip' (see - its not a nova 'Kev & Bev' strip! ).

The officer measured it just below where the blue patch ends, and got an 80% reading there.

[quote name='Supracharged-IS340' date='Oct 16 2004, 05:44 PM']MATT I AM ASSUMING YOU MEAN THE FRONT SIDE WINDOWS........

well, as the car is new, it will have a COC certificate of conformity, which means that the windows if std comply with ciurrent legistation not only in the UK but also in Europe.

id me more inclined to say the testing machine was defective.[/quote]
sorry - yes, I am referring to the front side windows.


thats interesting Matt, will be part of my armoury when I speak to Lexus.

Does each individual car have a COC, or is it the general range?

[quote name='ScarFace' date='Oct 16 2004, 05:53 PM'][quote name='Scorpion' date='Oct 16 2004, 05:49 PM']
Exactly what i was thinking.

Why would such a prestigious car co as Lexus allow a detail such as this to slip through.....?it aint going to happen.

I bet he was straight out of Hendon/nappies and had a spotty face and prolly about 17.   [/quote]
Scorpian .... lol

If it was in the MET ... then it would have to have been a Traffic Officer .. and therefore would at least know what they were talking about ....

I'm not sure how county forces work though ...... but remember what I said in the previous post ..... A car company was once before taken to court because of illegally fitted tinted windows ! [/quote]
He was a motorcycle officer.

Was on traffic duty by Tranmere's football ground, and pulled me over.

[quote name='norkep' date='Oct 16 2004, 05:57 PM']Matt, surely these windows were in when the car was MOT'd, if so then someone is making a big mistake - are they not ???[/quote]
its not part of the MOT Paul - I raised this at the time.

The way I read the actual statute, it applies only to

"any tint, film, other substance or material applied to specified glass or glazing or forming part of windscreens or other windows"

and not to the actual glass itself.

Also, the case about the Chrsyler that was ordered off the road was cos the guy bought the car with aftermarket tints fitted - they were not original factory windows.

I suspect that the Tint Man device was duff or the officer took the reading in the wrong place.

Whilst it's reasonable to demand that tint film (etc) is removed, it's pretty unreasonable to demand that a car is re-glazed I would have thought.

Matt - if you have the balls mate - let it go to court and see what happens.

Matt, thats un-believeable ...

Can't believe thats happened to you ... and to think there are so many real crimes out there eing comitted, they waste there time on this - your car class looks no diferently tinted then those errr Police range rovers

i agree with Rod, let it go to court.

matt, every car has to have a COC, if he took the reading just below the sun stripe, then he took it in the wrong place, as the tint is graduated.

personally i would not get offensive with Lexus, but get there view on the situ, then go to court.so much as to say , go to the police station to "show" that the car has been put back to "normal" state, and say............

see you in court....you'll never take me alive

So what about the GS300 they (the cops) use as a patrol car on the M4.?maybe you could use that as an arguement.

My guess is that the m/cycle cop didn't have a clue as to how the machine worked or where to take a reading from.

Friggin numpty.. ...the copper not you Matt.

[quote]The way I read the actual statute, it applies only to

"any tint, film, other substance or material applied to specified glass or glazing or forming part of windscreens or other windows"

and not to the actual glass itself.[/quote]

as far as I can tell - I have plain glass, there is no tint, film or other substance applied.

Pity Scarface has logged off - perhaps he can give us the benefit of his knowledge here.

The dealer certainly did not tell me about any sort of aftermarket tints when they sold me the car. Surely they would be obliged to tell me this, as I would have to decalre it to my insurance company?

[quote]I suspect that the Tint Man device was duff or the officer took the reading in the wrong place.[/quote]

he took the reading in the very top right hand corner of the drivers side front window.

Again, perhaps Scarface can let us know exactly how the meter should be used?

He only tested that one window, although took a few readings, that were consistently around 38%.


[quote]Whilst it's reasonable to demand that tint film (etc) is removed, it's pretty unreasonable to demand that a car is re-glazed I would have thought.[/quote]

I kept saying that.

He wasn't phased by this.

I said "So I am going to have to completely replace the two front windows", and he was not too bothered - just kept saying that if it wasn't remedied, I could be prosecuted for having defective parts.

Although - he didn't have an 'attitude' about it - he was pretty decent about it.

[quote]Matt - if you have the balls mate - let it go to court and see what happens.[/quote]

hmmmmm.

early days for that sort of discussion yet mate

Stick it to the man Matt!
Take your car down the cop shop, say its completely std and the numpty who tested them couldn't operate the machine properly and get them to prove that your windows are illegal.

If hes trying to take a reading from the top (across the sunvisor) where its tinted,the tinting is applied in between the glass so its impossible to take it out.

I bet if you ordered a new screen it would be exactly the same,so that would make most modern cars illegal then as most have the sun visor incorporated in the w/screen.

Hes talking out of his A**E.

Did he say why he stopped you? Maybe he didn't like the plate then thought he'd upset you when he saw the windows ........ and forgot the plate.

Have you looked at the Lexus website to see what it says about the windows for the GS430? "Water-repellent glass on front door windows " maybe that upsets his meter? It doesm't seem to mention tints though

[quote]matt, every car has to have a COC, if he took the reading just below the sun stripe, then he took it in the wrong place, as the tint is graduated.[/quote]

yeah - true.

But this is where he got the 80% reading, which was fine, and I don't have to do anything about that.

The drivers side front window he measured in the top right hand corner, and this is where he got a 38% reading.

[quote]personally i would not get offensive with Lexus[/quote]

I am not goona get offensive with them mate - but clearly I need to speak to them, as we are talking about the legality of the windows they fit to their cars as standard

[quote name='Scorpion' date='Oct 16 2004, 07:14 PM']If hes trying to take a reading from the top (across the sunvisor) where its tinted,the tinting is applied in between the glass so its impossible to take it out.[/quote]
As above Pete - He measured the front window here, and that gave ~80%.

top right hand corner of drivers side front gave 38%

If we look at this image again
[img]http://www.amjec.co.uk/albums/gs430/43600018_G.sized.jpg[/img]

he measured the front just at the bottom where the blue strip graduates out.

He measured the drivers side front, in the top left hand corner (the right angle joint at the top of the door), and got ~38%

[quote]I bet if you ordered a new screen it would be exactly the same,so that would make most modern cars illegal then as most have the sun visor incorporated in the w/screen.[/quote]

probably would mate - but its not the windscreen that is the issue, its the front side windows.

Sounds complete

I need to look at my windows tomorrow in the light but I don't think they are dark at all.

Are you sure the windows are 100% standard Matt? I can see they have Lexus on the glass but the pictures you have posted don't really show much difference between the front and rear. Where are the security and deadlocking stickers on the window - removed to add tints?

This 75% rule - was that law in 2001 when the car was registered? If not then how can you be expected to finance a change on your vehicle to keep with current law?

Sorry matt i got my wording wrong,but you know what i meant.

Anyway does the copper think you only look through the top 2" of the window then.?

[quote]Did he say why he stopped you? Maybe he didn't like the plate then thought he'd upset you when he saw the windows ........ and forgot the plate.[/quote]

He asked if he knew why he had stopped me (in case I admitted to the body in the boot or something ).

I said "No".

He said that he thought my windows were too dark and he wanted to measure them.


[quote]Have you looked at the Lexus website to see what it says about the windows for the GS430? "Water-repellent glass on front door windows " maybe that upsets his meter? It doesm't seem to mention tints though  [/quote]

Very good point Steve - anyone know anything more about this?

Funny thing is - Lexus lists this as a safety feature!

The site also says "Water-repellent glass has been adopted for the front door windows to improve vision in the rain."

[quote]Sounds complete 

I need to look at my windows tomorrow in the light but I don't think they are dark at all.[/quote]

would appreciate it if you could mate - get some pics if you can?

[quote]Are you sure the windows are 100% standard Matt? I can see they have Lexus on the glass but the pictures you have posted don't really show much difference between the front and rear. Where are the security and deadlocking stickers on the window - removed to add tints?[/quote]

just been and taken some pics - its dark outside, so this is the best I can do.

this one shows the difference - rears are actually darker than the front by a bit more than these (crappy, blurry pictures) show
[img]http://www.amjec.co.uk/albums/gs430/43600009_G.sized.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.amjec.co.uk/albums/gs430/43600007_G.sized.jpg[/img]

from what I can see, there are no security or deadlocking stickers - only the Lexus etching.

where should the stickers be?

[quote]This 75% rule - was that law in 2001 when the car was registered? If not then how can you be expected to finance a change on your vehicle to keep with current law?[/quote]

has been the law since '86 apparently.

Colin just becoz the stickers aren't on the windows doesn't mean they have been removed for tinting......i removed those ugly stickers b4 i had mine tinted becoz i just didn't like them.

Matt i dont think you've got anything to worry about.

[quote name='Scorpion' date='Oct 16 2004, 08:54 PM']Colin just becoz the stickers aren't on the windows doesn't mean they have been removed for tinting[/quote]
Did I suggest the only reason for removing the stickers would be to add tints? It could be the reason.


Matt, the stickers are right next to the Lexus etching.

Might be worth tomorrow taking a picture from inside the car with the window half open. That way we can see the difference the glass makes - I'll try and do the same.

[quote name='ColinBarber' date='Oct 16 2004, 08:18 PM']Might be worth tomorrow taking a picture from inside the car with the window half open. That way we can see the difference the glass makes - I'll try and do the same.[/quote]
nice idea Col - will do.

will be righteously ****** if its turns out they are tinted to an illegal level - the dealer did not mention it at all, and I have not declared it to the insurance company

[quote name='ColinBarber' date='Oct 16 2004, 09:18 PM']Did I suggest the only reason for removing the stickers would be to add tints? It could be the reason.[/quote]
It could also be the previous owner didn't like them either.

I didn't suggest you said it.....fact is you did its in quote!!!.there are many reasons why they are not there.

[quote name='Scorpion' date='Oct 16 2004, 09:26 PM']I didn't suggest you said it.....fact is you did its in quote!!!.there are many reasons why they are not there. [/quote]
I didn't state or say anything, I asked a question.

[quote name='ColinBarber' date='Oct 16 2004, 09:31 PM'][quote name='Scorpion' date='Oct 16 2004, 09:26 PM'] I didn't suggest you said it.....fact is you did its in quote!!!.there are many reasons why they are not there. [/quote]
I didn't state or say anything, I asked a question. [/quote]
In a suggestive way......but anyhow how would the new owner know.

WHATEVER!!!!!.....Lets move on.


The fact is the cops aren't going to prosecute,didn't the tinting law come out 2003 so either way it dont apply.

Roll the window down you can tell if its tinted or not,yes Colin even if its been tinted to the top. coz i know your going to say "not if its tinted all the way"

Am i being presumptuious here.....sorry!!!

Some links ....

[url="http://www.pentagonglasstech.com/news_legal_update.asp"]Pentagon and regulations[/url]

[url="http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2003/20033145.htm"]HMSO regs.[/url]

[quote]Amendment of regulation 32 (windscreens and other windows)
    3. After regulation 32(11), there shall be inserted the following paragraph -


    " (11A) Paragraphs (10) and (11) have effect in relation to any tint, film or other substance or material applied to a windscreen or window as they have effect in relation to the windscreen or window itself."[/quote]

Interesting that .... seems to only apply to a material applied .... not the glass itself.

Also [quote]Stopping retailers
Any retailer displaying vehicles with
over-tinted windows for sale is committing
a number of offences. Neil Cumming,
Roadworthiness Project Manager for VOSA,
points out, ‘Section 77 of the Road Traffic
Act 1988, as amended, makes it an offence
for any person to supply or offer for sale a
motor vehicle in an unroadworthy condition.’
Neil went on to explain, ‘Section 76 makes it
an offence for any person to fit, or cause or
permit to be fitted, a vehicle part which
would, by reason of the fitting of that
part, constitute a contravention of any
construction and use requirements.’ So some
retailers and tinting companies could find
themselves with a prosecution on their hands.[/quote]

from [url="http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/publications/mot%20-%20issue%2023%20-%20apr%202004.pdf#xml=http://www.vosa.gov.uk./SCRIPTS/texis.exe/webinator/search/xml.txt?query=window+tint&pr=VOSA&order=r&cq=&id=416fbf3cf"]VOSA - Vehicle and Operator Services agency[/url]

Steve I think everyone’s reading your reply



Me included

I've just decide to have my windows tinted might have to think again.... Black Rats

You should ring the police area control room and ask if they have a quality management team who you could speak to. Then ask if the officer should test the area of glass the driver look through while seated in a driving position, rather than an area which looks at the sky?
If they cant give you a satisfactory answer ( dont accept any guesses) take it to court.
Most police areas now have a team called FQM who check the legallity of what their officers have done in every event which may lead to prosecution. They have to do this just in case there is a court case. They also have a CPS rep on site to talk to. You may be surprised that their device may not take into account the ability of the glass to filter UV but still allow the eye to have a clear vision. So Lexus could say the glass is reactive to light.
So as you can see a smart ***** lawyer with Lexus GB could blow that case clean out the water. You defending yourself could blow it out on a technicallity but asking these questions in court and raising the point that Lexus GB surely wouldnt break the law

I think the first thing to do Matt is be TOTALLY sure that there isn't an aftermarket tint on there mate

[quote name='Rodders_UK' date='Oct 17 2004, 09:09 AM']I think the first thing to do Matt is be TOTALLY sure that there isn't an aftermarket tint on there mate[/quote]
first order of business on Monday Rod

Why wait till Monday.....roll the window down and have a look Matt.

Police up North seem to be a bit harsh,i've never been stopped for my tints.

Here are the pics of my side windows. Look a little darker in real life but I don't think they are near the legal limit.

[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~jo_barbar/misc/nswindow.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~jo_barbar/misc/oswindow.JPG[/img]

[quote name='Scorpion' date='Oct 16 2004, 07:05 PM']So what about the GS300 they (the cops) use as a patrol car on the M4.?maybe you could use that as an arguement.[/quote]
Emergency vehicles are given exemptions to certain acts of parliment.

Tinted windows being one .......


Matt , I've read like all of the posts since I left yesterday .... so much on here now, what's the latest ? - and what are you going to do about it ?

Regards,

Ive just supplied a "Sunstrip" for want of a better word. It was a thick Red Vinyl, 10" across from top to bottom, the full width of the screen, for a road-going BTCC lookalike. It passed the MOT OK because the field of view was not inhibited by the sunstrip at the top.

I think this is an open and shut case. The bobby did not test in the normal field of view, and without the sunstrip in place, on a bright and sunny day, you would use the normal sun visor, which cuts 100% from your field of view if it is in use.

The tint in the window is there for a reason - SAFETY.

Let it go to court mate. I would.

[quote name='ColinBarber' date='Oct 17 2004, 10:56 AM']Here are the pics of my side windows. Look a little darker in real life but I don't think they are near the legal limit.[/quote]
thanks Col - never got a chance to do this yesterday.

Have just been out and done the same

[img]http://www.amjec.co.uk/albums/gs430/43600061_G.sized.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.amjec.co.uk/albums/gs430/43600062_G.sized.jpg[/img]


I wouldn't say yours look near any legal limits - nor do mine (although I am obviously biased ).

[quote name='ScarFace' date='Oct 17 2004, 06:56 PM']Matt , I've read like all of the posts since I left yesterday .... so much on here now, what's the latest ? - and what are you going to do about it ?[/quote]
I have spoked to the dealer today.

Lexus Nottingahm sourced the car from Lexus GB.

They have spoken to Lexus GB, and they are both certain that the car has not been modified in any form.

The RAC Inspection conducted before I bought the car would also have revealed any modifications apparently, and it did not show any tints (or any other mods).


So - I am very confident that I am using standard Lexus windows, and no tints are present.

I am trying right now to get an independent measurement of the level of light allowed through the windows.

My father has friends who run a garage, but they do not own tint measuring equipment, nor do they know anyone who does - so drawn a bit of a blank on that front so far.

[quote name='Global_Grafix' date='Oct 18 2004, 12:18 PM']Ive just supplied a "Sunstrip" for want of a better word. It was a thick Red Vinyl, 10" across from top to bottom, the full width of the screen, for a road-going BTCC lookalike. It passed the MOT OK because the field of view was not inhibited by the sunstrip at the top.

I think this is an open and shut case. The bobby did not test in the normal field of view, and without the sunstrip in place, on a bright and sunny day, you would use the normal sun visor, which cuts 100% from your field of view if it is in use.

The tint in the window is there for a reason - SAFETY.

Let it go to court mate. I would.[/quote]
Pete - the strip across the top of the car is not an issue mate.

The front windscreen returned 80% light, and was therefore fine.

Its the front, side windows that are the issue - so if I did not make that 100% clear

Your ones look about the same as my front ones Mat, and it just passed through the MOT...

... Wouldn't that make my MOT void in some way if it was illegal?

[quote name='whitie' date='Oct 18 2004, 05:00 PM']Your ones look about the same as my front ones Mat, and it just passed through the MOT...

... Wouldn't that make my MOT void in some way if it was illegal? [/quote]
apparently window tints are not part of the MOT.


Out of curiosity - what level are your windows tinted to?