Looks like the strike is on.........

Do you think its right or wrong ?

[quote name='DaveEllen' date='Nov 12 2002, 02:36 PM']Looks like the strike is on.........

Do you think its right or wrong ? [/quote]
I am afraid I have little sympathy for them



yes they are incredibly brave, and do a heroic job - I am not knocking them at all.

but

to expect a 40% pay raise, and no be prepared to make any changes to their working practises is very un-realistic.

They have allegedly turned down a 16% increase, and have now refused 11%?

That is a decent offer in todays market - can think of many people who would bite their employers hands off with for an offer like that.

And the real killer, is that they are not that badly done by.

I am sure I read that they are roughly in the middle of the national pay scale - so they earn more than roughly 50% of the country anyway.


All in all - I have no sympathy for them at all ([b]on the subject of pay raises[/b])

I concur

In an economic climate where many employees face no pay rise and possibly redundancy 40% seems a little unrealistic.

The thing that gets me is that they have refused to accept any new working practices.

The first fatality that arises from this strike will see public opinion shift quickly away from them.....

[quote name='Matthew_McNally' date='Nov 12 2002, 02:48 PM'][quote name='DaveEllen' date='Nov 12 2002, 02:36 PM']Looks like the strike is on.........

Do you think its right or wrong ? [/quote]
I am afraid I have little sympathy for them



yes they are incredibly brave, and do a heroic job - I am not knocking them at all.

but

to expect a 40% pay raise, and no be prepared to make any changes to their working practises is very un-realistic.

They have allegedly turned down a 16% increase, and have now refused 11%?

That is a decent offer in todays market - can think of many people who would bite their employers hands off with for an offer like that.

And the real killer, is that they are not that badly done by.

I am sure I read that they are roughly in the middle of the national pay scale - so they earn more than roughly 50% of the country anyway.


All in all - I have no sympathy for them at all ([b]on the subject of pay raises[/b])

[/quote]
Totally agree, 40% is extremely unrealistic and all that will happen is that they will cut costs to stay within budgets, so the Firemen could get a hefty pay rise but will also find that they make a large number of their colleagues redundant. They do a damn fine job, but remember that they have to volunteer for the role and they do know the pay scale when they get into it.

Si

Anyone heard of a Fireman with less than 2 jobs

Isn't that partly because of the amount of time off they get. I don't know the exact figures but the numbers of hours they do per week pretty shocking (i.e. not many).

It does not help there cause with all the emotional blackmail which they are now shoving out.

Houses left to burn, people left trapped in cars etc.

Also if they get 40% everyone will want it, there will be more people striking than working.

I don't agree with the strike but I do have sympathy for them. When I heard how much money they are on and compared this, for example, to a london underground train driver (30K+), I was totally shocked . - they save lives (and many other professions do as well but this is about firemen)

Lets face it, how many people go to work in the knowledge that they might not come home again

I know 40% sounds a lot but 40% of what they get is not a massive amount. Perhaps they should increase it year on year and do it on a gradual basis.

I agree with Jenners. 40% of sod all is sod all

40% takes them to £35K, quite a lot compared to other professions. They also know what the wages are before they take the job.

I do agree that train drivers getting £30K is ridiculous, they only have to accelerate and brake.

I have no sympathy at all. I dont think £23 + 11% is a bad wage for 3 x 12 hour shifts a week. The job is dangerous, but they knew that when taking on the job. The job is getting easier and safer all the time as new equipment becomes available.

I know two firemen, and 80% of the time they do absolutely nothing apart from drills and cleaning duties. They both say that on average they get called to one serious incident every 3 weeks!

I just think that 40% is plain unreasonable.

I heard a fireman on the radio tonight saying that if anyone dies when they are strike, blame Mr. Blair, Prescott and Brown. I don't see their reasoning somehow....... I know who I would blame if anything happened when they were on strike

[quote name='masharp' date='Nov 12 2002, 05:29 PM']I do agree that train drivers getting £30K is ridiculous, they only have to accelerate and brake.[/quote]
Yet they are also going on strike for more money. And they get 6 weeks holiday and only work 4 day weeks

dangerous job my bottom........only sometimes are they in so much danger...there trained to spot these dangers....hey.....im gonna get the Army on strike,i think our job is dangerous..but crikey no....we can do there job aswell now....hey ,bin men why dont you go on strike aswell,the army will cover that one aswell.......in a couple of months time when im sat upto my bottom in diesel in a flippin 30 year old tank kissing the fairys that blow bubbles out my bottom everytime im doing a mine breach........,or crazy demolition on some messed up crap ,doing bridging across oil pipelines,pumping tons of diesel across the desert ,or laying my flipping dam pretty bottom on the line for some rubbish cause i will think of those very hard done by firemen .........tossers,think of the harm your doing you selfish people...

[quote name='jenners' date='Nov 12 2002, 05:20 PM']I know 40% sounds a lot but 40% of what they get is not a massive amount. Perhaps they should increase it year on year and do it on a gradual basis.[/quote]
Sorry I have to disagree there are thousands of Firemen and Women out there that are doing the job, if you gave them a 40% pay rise, you say that 40% or not alot is not alot but then multiply that by the thousands of people that you have to give this rise to and this gives you an massive hole in their budget - where will this come from - other public services.

They do do a damn fine job and I agree they do put them selves in harms way sometimes during their working life, however so do police men, paramedics, nurses etc. None of them are crying out for 40% even though they are on less already.

Public opinion seems to be turning against the firemen day by day, their argument that politicians gave themselves 40% pay rise therefore they deserve a 40% pay rise is complete rubbish. I disagree with the 40% rise the politicians gave themselves but they are two seperate issues and should be treated as such.

Si

Well said Simon and Mat - the voices of reason.

Totally agree Simon,
While they do a superb job there are plenty of people that also do an equally valuable job but are not in the position to demand such a huge increase. What would happen if we went to war tomorrow, would all the soldiers go on strike untill they were given 40%?

I'll back your strike plans Matt.

Hey if everyone in my industry was to go on strike, we could shut down the globe in days.

Fire Fighters would not need 40%, as they would not be able to get to the fires anyway!

Matt would not need to go to war, as he would have to walk!

So then mister Blair, take back the 40% pay rise for politicians, and all there travel expenses as they wouldn't be travelling, cancel the Oil profits tax and tell Europe to “Go **** It’s Self” over the proposed cuts in Fishing, stop **** this country up!

The best thing we can all do is emigrate!!!

Oh and give the fire fighters 3% that’s all I got this year!

What industry are you in brn7y?

Oil - Black Gold - Texas T!

(say with yank accent) *** damn it boy! It's a living!

that union leader.....Gilcrest,he is a ****........

all i can say is the Army will do its best

on a linked theme have you heard the engine noise of the green goddess's...........lovely straight 6......

As an army brat used to get bussed to school in similair engined buses........memories.......

40% not realistic, it would open the floodgates for any other public service. The firemen do not want their conditions of work altered which governs the shift patterns owing to the fact that it would interfere with their second jobs.
I feel sorry for the army backing up with out of date equipment which does not do justice to their professional attitude and also the public will suffer as a result.

Looks like they are not many fireman who own a Lexus and are members of the owners club shame that, would be nice to get a opinion from someone on receiving end. Must have something do with the money they earn. 20k

All the quotes here are based on bias news reports in the media, the only thing that's true in every daily newspaper is the date and as for the TV, talk about over hype.

The firemen/women deserve every penny they get and if they get anywhere near the 40% then good luck to them.

Best Regards
Risky

just for your infomation risky3301,the army cannot all aford lexus....65% of all servng soldiers in the uk are on family benifits,the reason i could afford one was from saving money and the fact we are entiteled to tax free suppliments........so please dont assume,it will be the very same soldiers that are now covering this strike,many of whome are from germany and away from THIER familys may well be in the Gulf in a few months...........

and they wont be asking for a pay rise

Just heard on the news that a 76 year old woman has died after a house fire tonight.
Could this have been avoided if the firefighters were not on strike????
I'm sure cases such as this won't help their cause.

I the news this morning they are saying three people died in seperate house fires last night.

That is true but would it have been any different if the Fire Service had been fully manned?

On one of the calls the striking firemen did actually leave the picket line...

This maybe a silly question, but why can't the army personnel use the 'high-tech' fire engines and equipment whilst the fireman are on strike?

I thought that but they said on the tv that might aggravate the situation with the fire services if they sent the army in to take control of the fire stations.

I personally think that they should be allowed to take over and run the fire stations with all the modern kit. The fireman should have no say in it. Isn't all the stuff inside the firestations owned by the government?

I agree completely!

Its said that the firemen will sabotage the appliances if its thought the army will use them...........

Prescott just said that if the proposed 8 day strike goes ahead....they will use "whatever means" pundits say thats getting the army to use proper fire engines........

anyone remember what reagan did to his air traffic controllers ???

With regards to the woman who died in the fire...the green goddess crew arrived within 7mins of the call being mad and had her out of the hose in 14mins.....Bl**dy good going if you ask me

:angry
I'm with you on this one man.

Greedy B******s !

You can't hold the Country to ransom.


bs

[quote name='Risky3301' date='Nov 13 2002, 08:25 PM']Looks like they are not many fireman who own a Lexus and are members of the owners club shame that, would be nice to get a opinion from someone on receiving end. Must have something do with the money they earn. 20k

All the quotes here are based on bias news reports in the media, the only thing that's true in every daily newspaper is the date and as for the TV, talk about over hype.

The firemen/women deserve every penny they get and if they get anywhere near the 40% then good luck to them.

Best Regards
Risky[/quote]
What if one of your relatives, or friends, died during the strike. Would you think it was such a good idea then ?

??

bs

I'm sorry but I think they have every right to strike, they job they do can be f'ing dangerous, and sometimes they get very little thanks for it sometimes, I know for sure I wouldn't want to deal with half the stuff they see. and before anyone says it I am not saying the Army or any other forces have it easy, I know for a fact you don't.
They want the money they deserve, and yes they signed up for the job knowing what it was about and they things they may see, but so do squaddies

Okay call this ironic but the reason i've been off the site all day is due to the fact that I had to call the Green Goddess out last night and ended up being the first call to a house fire in the UK. The bloody place that I run fused out some strip lights on our first floor, lots of sparks and smoke and the bloody fire alarm didn't trigger!!! The green goddessess turned up - bearing in mind that we work ina listed building in the centre of Oxford - really quickly and sorted it out. Chatting to them after this as they were clearing up they are well ****** off at the fire fighters - they had the same point that mat made - the armed forces are paid far less, are often away from their families, have to go to WAR if necessary and you don't see them striking or moaning.

No sympathy whatsoever i'm afraid - it's the unions trying to take back power in this country - Work Shy Gits the lot of them

Si

red.........


yes squaddies do.......

but we dont sign up for firemen duties,bin collection,humanitarian missions in some *** dam stinking country that has problems generated by there own dislike of there fellow country men........

but we do it anyway because thats our job.....and we dont strike

the average wage of a soldier is £18,000 a year....now the army is paid for 24 hours a day 365days ayear

thats on average £49 a day

and £2 an hour...........hmmmmm,isnt that below the national wage minimum

now tell me who should be on strike!!!!!!!!!!

[quote name='ifraz' date='Nov 14 2002, 12:31 PM']I personally think that they should be allowed to take over and run the fire stations with all the modern kit. The fireman should have no say in it. Isn't all the stuff inside the firestations owned by the government?[/quote]
This stuff about the army not being allowed to cross picket lines and use the modern appliances really pi**es me off.

The Country owns them not the firefighters.

If Doctors and Nurses went on strike would they stop the people that covered for them using operating theatres etc.??

There are a lot more dangerous jobs for a lot less pay out there, they knew about the money before they took the job.

Toss*rs

I see that there were 21 actual incidents in the first 24 hours off this strike.


That tells a story if you look at the number of stations n/wide !!!!

As for the F*****ing tube drivers..........i feel castration with a blunt knife is in order

All sympathy to our soldiers for all their splended work. I say let the govt give the fire brigade appliances to the soldiers who have been trained up specially for the new equipment. In the Mail today a tradesman was reported as applying for the fire brigade. He stated that with their current shift pattern he could easily do both jobs with his plastering being done for cash without payment of any tax.

All I will say as another whom is serving my country is how can the politicians draw so much money under false pretences. I bet if Blair sends us to war we will continue to be paid our average of 18K a year whilst he and his defence secretary sit in their ivory tower, thousands of miles from any danger drawing 100k + each. Why do politicians get such massive pay rises but those who do all the work get **** all? Hence the reason I don't vote. They're all as bad as each other, politics is just a job to them that pays ***** loads for doing **** all, they could't care less about the country.

Glad I got that of my chest.

As for the Firemen, they can crack on stand around in the rain. I just hope the government rewards us for doing their job them. I bet the cabinet get a hefty raise for doing **** all again.

I won't bother using the quotes. In my last thread I never mention the Armed Forces only the fire service, as far as I am concerned they will do an excellent job even with the sub standard equipment they will be using. As I said before don't believe everything you read in the newspapers and see reported on the TV news as they cut and splice the film to suit their own ends. At the end of the day the only reason why the Fire service is on strike is because of Tony 'Lovie' Bair's policies and the sooner he and the rest of his cronies are removed from power the better it will be for everyone. If you remember the last time the Fire Service striked was the last time labour were in power, could there be a connection????

For the record I hope the Fire Service don't strike for 8 Days

Best Regards
Risky.

superchargedIS200.....
I know you didn't join up to be left to deal with the sh*t that your own country men caused, wasn't it to 'protect queen & country'?
And I'm also not disputing that maybe you should be paid more.
But personally I think the firecrew's should also be on more money. This strike isn't about their hatred for the people of the UK or to teach us all a lesson, they do the job because they love it & because it is part of them.....hence the reason why so many firecrew have broke the picketline to go & help people. But that doesn't mean to say they shouldn't have the right to strike. There wasn't the same outcry when the paramedics went on strike a few years back

i was refering to countrys like bosnia,kosovo..not UK

but i dont think 40% is a justified amount....

Let the armed services use the new equipment. It is not owned by the fire brigade and if they interfere or attempt sabotage get the police to lock them up for criminal damage and threatening behaviour. The country cannot be held to ransome.

I have avoided commenting on this, as personally I think discissing political issues on an internet forum (a car one at that) can be dangerous as the media lends itself to misunderstanding/misinterpretation....

Anyway - I think they deserve a rise. They work a 48 hour week, and shifts, unsociable hours..... starting pay is £17k rising to £21k.

They are exposed to danger, and see a lot of upsetting things. It is a difficult job - I couldn't do it even if they were offering £50k a year! They are trained, skilled people - and they often suffer illnesses in later life due to smoke inhalation etc.

£30k to me does not seem excessive, but not in one jump. Perhaps a plans should be put together to
a) Allow overtime (currently not allowed)
Increase their salary to a more appropriate level and contracted raises X amount above inflation for X number of years to bring them up to an agreed appropriate level.

I don't think they should strike - many firemen don't agree with the strike, but this isn't something that has 'just' happened - they have been fighting for a rise to a decent level for years.

I could reply to a few points regarding the politics quoted above, and the fact that there has been no more strikes during the Labour period than there were during the last Conservative period of power (less actually, but that is more to do with today being a different ethos to the '80s) -
but comments on those will turn this into political debate and we don't want that.

It isn't a simple debate - I support them, but not strikes.

I do hope people also realise that the deaths that occured during the strike were deaths that would have occured had the firemen been on duty too.
On average there are 3 deaths a day due to fire in the UK.

As for arguing about others also being underpaid - that is just smokescreens and irrelevent IMO. 2 wrongs don't make a right etc. Also when comparing different vocations, you have to compare the whole package, including pension, insurance etc.

Oh - and as for the army using the modern equipment, not as easy as it first looks - if they are not trained to use that equipment, they may be better working with the equipment they are more familiar with?