I was browsing the net last night and come across this picture of trd throttle body's (in link below) now this is something that I would like to knowing more about, this is where I hope that you can help, I don't know much about engines and most of what I know is from this forum. see pics of parts in posted by members and topics like the drift car.

there's lots of talk about turbo's and superchargers but none really on throttle body's. I know that the first 2 are good ways of getting big power gains for your money

could this be a reason that throttle body's are not cost effective for the money when you put the against turbos and superchargers, so could this be why it's not done much?

out of interest what do the touring cars have in them?

one of the main reasons why I've asked these questions is because it's something that I'm interested in doing to my altezza but don't fully understand how it all works

I love the sound the intake makes when I put my foot down, I still smile as much as the first time I did it this is a sound I DON'T want to lose on the hunt for power. so this is why I thought TB's would be a good way to go, am i right?

at the end of the the day I'm aiming for a 250hp n/a 3s-ge, any idea of what Rwhp could be ? and what the cost's could be getting there?

thanks for your time and any questions that you could answer would be greatly appreciated

Robin

[url="http://trdparts.jp/english/parts_engine-3s-ge.html"]link[/url]

throttle bodys if set up right can give good hp gains, however bang for buck you will get more with FI

i was looking at throttles before the turbo conversion, and i actually have alot of infomation about them.

there are quite a few companies that have throttle body conversions for the 3s-ge. in japan

i think i could succesfully make up a kit using home grown products at half the price

ive even got the basics of a design i did for 6 throttle bodys on the 1g-fe for the is200

You can reach more than 250hp going with N/A tuning. it will be far from cheap... something like 850,000JPY for N1 Racing parts...

Here's a pic of a throttle body conversion with a carbon fibre plenum.

It will be far from quiet

and the engine is very highly stressed, this is why i moved away from the high compression N/A route

[quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 16 2005, 02:03 PM']and the engine is very highly stressed, this is why i moved away from the high compression N/A route
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How does this stress the engine more???

do you have to run with more compression for TB's

would you have to up rate all the internals?

what sort of work would need to be done for a 250 n/a engine
ie what parts would be required????

ball park cost to get there????

I don't think you'd need that much to get to 250 mate...........

My IS3 is currently pushing 185 RWBHP and that's about 245 BHP at the FLY.

Near enough what you want right ?

What's my car had done to it ?

HKS HI-Power Silent (back box)
K&N Typhoon Induction.

[b](Below work carried out by TDi)[/b]
Pre Cats Removed.
Main Manifold Inlets bored.
Balancing Pipe added.

Have you tried going for a full stainless steel exhaust system? From manifold straight to the back , removing all cats?

I'm sure you will see a nice gain there !

currently collecting parts for it at the moment (hope to get them fitted once back from snowboarding in jan)also should have some more by then

got manifold to put on

will I not lose back pressure by removing all the cats? do I need back pressure?
I know that this ideal for turbo's
will I lose any torque by removing cats?

I'm surprised that you've gain over 30hp from the mods listed below
but you do have 2 more cylinders then me

Robin, I didn't gain 30BHP.

Are you comparing that gain from the rolling road dyno @ Janspeed? Then that's not an accurate figure.

My dyno @ TDi before mods, on the DYNO (rototest) was 172 RWBHP.

After those mods, I then got to 185 RWBHP.

so it was a 13BHP increase.

Back pressures ............ pah - no good asking me mate !

ahmet you cant compare your engine to the 3s-ge. for many reasons.

why is the engine highly stressed....the engine is highly stressed from the factory, its a high compression engine, by addingg modifications which increase the HP, you are automatically increasing the stress.

the 2jz-ge, is not a stressed engine


yes you require backpressure, again this is the relm of actually speaking to people who know what there talking ablout, rather than listening to the internet Tuners.

if you buy a matched exhaust, lets say the TRD manifold, down pipe and remainder of the system, matched to decent throttle bodys you will get a decent gain, if you hobble together bits and bobs that are not matched you wont gain nearly as much.

you need to do research and calculate what you hope to achive and what you will achive

it goes alot further than just whacking an an exhaust, and throttles.

you need to look at cams equally as much.......

imo, get urself a turbo kit..

got a mate selling a apexi turbo kit for about £1k (used with fmic)

some guys down under are running these upto .7bar on stock internals producing tad under 290hp...

u'll need a ecu and mapping...

2.5k-3k is more than enough for a turbo kit though..

thanks for your input peeps

I didn't think it would be the case of just bolting on TB's

there always a knock on effect to what else you have to do

a few more minutes of your time if that's ok

what are my options for getting small power gains from my 3s-ge?

well it all depends how much you want to spend..............give me an idea of what you consider small and i will let you know your options

it's not really how much I want to spend but more of what can I do,(staying n/a)

I don't have a lump sum to do it with, it would just be the case of doing the over time to pay for any mods,

of top of my head lets say £1000 every 3 months to mod with

as this is what I've spent on the 1st round of mods

(the money pit has started )

[quote name='Robin H' date='Dec 18 2005, 11:48 PM']it's not really how much I want to spend but more of what can I do,(staying n/a)

I don't have a lump sum to do it with, it would just be the case of doing the over time to pay for any mods,

of top of my head lets say £1000 every 3 months to mod with

as this is what I've spent on the 1st round of mods

(the money pit has started )
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Robin can you let me know what you have done engine wise inclusding exhaust uptill now.........

then.......


i will spend a grand for you for the next 12 months

haha

HKS induction kit
Tom's 4-2-1 manifold (not fitted yet)
HKS sports cat (not fitted yet also this will be used as template for decat pipe if required)
speed racing cat back exhaust (what was on car)
TRD flywheel (not fitted yet)

[quote name='Robin H' date='Dec 19 2005, 12:43 AM']haha

HKS induction kit
Tom's 4-2-1 manifold (not fitted yet)
HKS sports cat (not fitted yet also this will be used as template for decat pipe if required)
speed racing cat back exhaust (what was on car)
TRD flywheel (not fitted yet)
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ok cool here goes..............

firstly

TRD cams and vernier pulleys both obtainable from TRD (i have contacts)

sell the toms manifold.......

next 2 months get the full TRD race 4-1 manifold [img]http://trdparts.jp/english/image/e_3SGE_11.jpg[/img]

sell cat and cat back exhaust..........

manifold back TRD group N exhaust system, as shown above


then you have a plethera of choice regarding Throttle body conversions.

Nightpager
Axia sports
TODA...still in development
and of course TRD
[img]http://trdparts.jp/english/image/altezza-4slot.jpg[/img]

there are the other little bits and bobs that need doing like plugs, injectors

i have pretty much direct access to TRD Japan parts

if you need more detail on this stuff let me know....that should get you 270 hp @8,000 rpm or 245Nm torque....so you need to do brakes and diff aswell

[quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 19 2005, 11:56 AM']then you have a plethera of choice regarding Throttle body conversions.

Nightpager
Axia sports
TODA...still in development
and of course TRD

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LOL - I did a quick search for Nightpager and look at what I hit: [url="http://www.takakaira.com/accessories/nightpager/nightpager.html"]Nightpager[/url], I'm picking this is not a mod that you're recommending!

For those who are interested, here's some 'real' Night-Pager links:
[url="http://night-pager.com/"]http://night-pager.com/[/url]
[url="http://night-pager.com/parts/toyota_sports/sxe10/sxe10.htm"]http://night-pager.com/parts/toyota_sports/sxe10/sxe10.htm[/url]
[img]http://night-pager.com/parts/toyota_sports/sxe10/DCP02051.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Robin H' date='Dec 18 2005, 10:43 PM']haha

HKS induction kit
Tom's 4-2-1 manifold (not fitted yet)
HKS sports cat (not fitted yet also this will be used as template for decat pipe if required)
speed racing cat back exhaust (what was on car)
TRD flywheel (not fitted yet)
[right][snapback]314764[/snapback][/right][/quote]

Think you have the TOMs downpipe too...

yeah forgot that

thanks Zee

Thanks very much with your help on this topic Mat

I've been looking at the TRD parts that you've mentioned (cams,pulleys, exhaust system)
what is the conversion rate to work out what they would cost in £ of the parts would be

Cam and pulleys look like the first things to be done then
would this also mean a new/piggy back ecu would be required to run the new set up

TDI posted up that they had a Cam kit for the tezza
[url="http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=28243"]link to post[/url]

would this be an option or should I not mix and match parts

also with a fully decated system would the car pass the m.o.t's
how do the turbo boys get on with there m.o.t's

thanks for your help so far peeps
I'm sure that i'll have a few more Q's in future

Use www.xe.com for latest conversation rates Robin.

you can mix and match, however by fitting the TRD stuff as a matched set you will have continuity

where are you getting the prices for your TRD parts?

regarding the cat, if you have a cat, it can be fitted into the pipe from TRD, just would need welding im

[quote name='ScarFace' date='Nov 23 2005, 04:44 PM'][quote name='Bazza' date='Nov 23 2005, 04:06 PM']will be a difference between wheel and hub measurement readings
would be a truer figure if it was done before and after using the same tester

what was done ?


and mr scarfacethispostisuselesswithoutpics , where are the pics
[right][snapback]308063[/snapback][/right][/quote]
The picture is on the thread mate ..................

[b]We were not able to do a test before hand ............[/b]

The exhaust manifold section was cleaned out (inlet pipes made bigger)
Precats Removed
Balancing Pipe was added to manifold

Smile was added to face
[right][snapback]308087[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


[quote name='ScarFace' date='Dec 18 2005, 07:13 PM']Robin, I didn't gain 30BHP.

Are you comparing that gain from the rolling road dyno @ Janspeed? Then that's not an accurate figure.

[b]My dyno @ TDi before mods, on the DYNO (rototest) was 172 RWBHP.[/b]

After those mods, I then got to 185 RWBHP.

so it was a 13BHP increase.

Back pressures ............ pah - no good asking me mate !
[right][snapback]314698[/snapback][/right][/quote]

nice work there Robin!

Looks like you have a decent plan there from Mat and I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to spend your 1k every 3 months

off topic but Mat what trd parts can you get? any older bits and bobs?

[quote name='OLI_EP3' date='Dec 19 2005, 05:02 PM']nice work there Robin!

Looks like you have a decent plan there from Mat and I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to spend your 1k every 3 months

off topic but Mat what trd parts can you get? any older bits and bobs?
[right][snapback]314895[/snapback][/right][/quote]


pretty much anything...........but only from TRD Japan, and normally only the Race stuff

[quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 19 2005, 03:03 PM'][quote name='OLI_EP3' date='Dec 19 2005, 05:02 PM']nice work there Robin!

Looks like you have a decent plan there from Mat and I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to spend your 1k every 3 months

off topic but Mat what trd parts can you get? any older bits and bobs?
[right][snapback]314895[/snapback][/right][/quote]


pretty much anything...........but only from TRD Japan, and normally only the Race stuff
[right][snapback]314896[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

That's very nice to know car wise not pocket wise So we looking at trd bits or the older tosco or technocraft stuff? Looking at possible bits for my 4k

on another side note any good at welding? or shall i get a welder for xmas?

[quote name='OLI_EP3' date='Dec 19 2005, 05:28 PM'][quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 19 2005, 03:03 PM'][quote name='OLI_EP3' date='Dec 19 2005, 05:02 PM']nice work there Robin!

Looks like you have a decent plan there from Mat and I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to spend your 1k every 3 months

off topic but Mat what trd parts can you get? any older bits and bobs?
[right][snapback]314895[/snapback][/right][/quote]


pretty much anything...........but only from TRD Japan, and normally only the Race stuff
[right][snapback]314896[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

That's very nice to know car wise not pocket wise So we looking at trd bits or the older tosco or technocraft stuff? Looking at possible bits for my 4k

on another side note any good at welding? or shall i get a welder for xmas?
[right][snapback]314905[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


im brilliant at MIG welding...i can get TRD and technocraft stuff aslong as you have the technocraft part numbers

[quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 19 2005, 03:29 PM']im brilliant at MIG welding
[right][snapback]314906[/snapback][/right][/quote]
Serious?

my ke70 is looking well ***** the car needs some some new metal in the rear pockets... some on floor pan and boot.... and could really do with a new rear panel (panel behind and below the rear bumper) but the car is rare as rocking horse cack and can't really find a replacement to cut and shut - do you reckon we could replace with some sheet metal with holes cut out where needed for a decent bodge?

[quote name='OLI_EP3' date='Dec 19 2005, 05:38 PM'][quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 19 2005, 03:29 PM']


im brilliant at MIG welding
[right][snapback]314906[/snapback][/right][/quote]
Serious?

my ke70 is looking well ***** the car needs some some new metal in the rear pockets... some on floor pan and boot.... and could really do with a new rear panel (panel behind and below the rear bumper) but the car is rare as rocking horse cack and can't really find a replacement to cut and shut - do you reckon we could replace with some sheet metal with holes cut out where needed for a decent bodge?
[right][snapback]314909[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


of course, ive built many an old car, mg's triumphs etc etc, an old MG midget practically need the bottom 12" replacing

anyway...

lets start a new one or take it to DW

ok I'll start a new topic in loc

I think throttle bodies sound the nuts and are probalby the more expensive bang per buck compared to turbo or supercharger.

I think it depends on how deep your pocket is......how long you want to keep it and how far you want to go.

after reading up on some of the comments on here I'd be inclined to go for turbo..... finsih off with all the bits youve done so far and get them on and save for an a'pexi turbo or similar in the mean time......

in theory, theres nothing stopping you fitting a turbo after you have done the throttle body conversion either..now that would be hardcore

[quote name='Bazza' date='Dec 19 2005, 01:16 PM'][quote name='ScarFace' date='Nov 23 2005, 04:44 PM'][quote name='Bazza' date='Nov 23 2005, 04:06 PM']will be a difference between wheel and hub measurement readings
would be a truer figure if it was done before and after using the same tester

what was done ?


and mr scarfacethispostisuselesswithoutpics , where are the pics
[right][snapback]308063[/snapback][/right][/quote]
The picture is on the thread mate ..................

[b]We were not able to do a test before hand ............[/b]

The exhaust manifold section was cleaned out (inlet pipes made bigger)
Precats Removed
Balancing Pipe was added to manifold

Smile was added to face
[right][snapback]308087[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


[quote name='ScarFace' date='Dec 18 2005, 07:13 PM']Robin, I didn't gain 30BHP.

Are you comparing that gain from the rolling road dyno @ Janspeed? Then that's not an accurate figure.

[b]My dyno @ TDi before mods, on the DYNO (rototest) was 172 RWBHP.[/b]

After those mods, I then got to 185 RWBHP.

so it was a 13BHP increase.

Back pressures ............ pah - no good asking me mate !
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[right][snapback]314868[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Thanks Bazza

I didn't think scareface's car was dyno'ed before and after
thought I was going mad

[quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 19 2005, 12:56 PM']where are you getting the prices for your TRD parts?

[right][snapback]314863[/snapback][/right][/quote]

I was going to use the ones on the link in first post for a ruff guide

is there somewhere where you could recommend looking in to get the true costs of parts Mat

ah, TRD japan, i can assure you you will not be able to email trd japan to order Those parts, give me a few days and i will have the prices for the cams for you as i have just emailed someone to get me prices..we should take the pricing issue into PM

yeah that would be a great help Mat

Thanks very much

[quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 19 2005, 04:35 PM']in theory, theres nothing stopping you fitting a  turbo after you have done the throttle body conversion either..now that would be hardcore
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Idea for the future

[quote name='Robin H' date='Dec 19 2005, 10:55 PM'][quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 19 2005, 04:35 PM']in theory, theres nothing stopping you fitting a  turbo after you have done the throttle body conversion either..now that would be hardcore
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Idea for the future
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[/quote]


maybe i should point out that a decent throttle body set up is around £3500 ...crazy i know, but thats the crazy japs for you

[quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 19 2005, 09:55 PM']maybe i should point out that a decent throttle body set up is around £3500 ...crazy i know, but thats the crazy japs for you
[right][snapback]315047[/snapback][/right][/quote]

Nah the crazy ones are the ones who pay that

considering turbo kit is around that sort of money u have to be a real n/a die hard tuner!

[quote name='Monster-Mat' date='Dec 19 2005, 09:55 PM']maybe i should point out that a decent throttle body set up is around £3500 ...crazy i know, but thats the crazy japs for you
[right][snapback]315047[/snapback][/right][/quote]

This is the sort of info thats great to know

[quote name='Mr Singh' date='Dec 19 2005, 10:03 PM']Nah the crazy ones are the ones who pay that

considering turbo kit is around that sort of money u have to be a real n/a die hard tuner!
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I don't think that I would be in a position to pay out for a turbo all in one go
plus once you've bolted that on you've got clutch, brakes ect to think about before you can play safely

then once you had a turbo you would want more boost which means uprated internals, the hole deepens

I'm just floating about a few ideas for the future. which is why I've been asking for peoples input. turbos not on the books yet but power gains are, so if there's anything that I can do bit by bit, then I'll look into it.

The NA route can be done gradually

you have prices robin...fresh from TRD

Thanks Mat

[quote name='Robin H' date='Dec 19 2005, 10:33 PM']I don't think that I would be in a position to pay out for a turbo all in one go
plus once you've bolted that on you've got clutch, brakes ect to think about before you can play safely

then once you had a turbo you would want more boost which means uprated internals, the hole deepens

I'm just floating about a few ideas for the future. which is why I've been asking for peoples input. turbos not on the books yet but power gains are, so if there's anything that I can do bit by bit, then I'll look into it.
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Defo agree with you there. Thats one of the reasons i didn't go turbo

mmmmnnnnn..........these throttle bodies

what are they and what do they do ?

[quote name='Bazza' date='Dec 20 2005, 04:39 PM']mmmmnnnnn..........these throttle bodies

what are they and what do they do ? 
[right][snapback]315238[/snapback][/right][/quote]

they replace the whole inlet manifold and throttle body with 4 individual throttles and air tracts

TB's have a larger overall surface area which lets more air into the cylinders which can have more fuel so more power

also due to the size of the throttle bodies dont slow down the air as much as one big throttle body would, which trumpets would also come in handy on the throttle bodys to also smooth out the flow of air. Its also dependant on how is mapped to how much power you'll get, and what injectors would be used.

[quote name='Mr Singh' date='Dec 20 2005, 06:51 PM'][quote name='Bazza' date='Dec 20 2005, 04:39 PM']mmmmnnnnn..........these throttle bodies

what are they and what do they do ? 
[right][snapback]315238[/snapback][/right][/quote]

they replace the whole inlet manifold and throttle body with 4 individual throttles and air tracts

TB's have a larger overall surface area which lets more air into the cylinders which can have more fuel so more power

also due to the size of the throttle bodies dont slow down the air as much as one big throttle body would, which trumpets would also come in handy on the throttle bodys to also smooth out the flow of air. Its also dependant on how is mapped to how much power you'll get, and what injectors would be used.
[right][snapback]315295[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

thanks

[quote name='Mr Singh' date='Dec 20 2005, 07:51 PM'][quote name='Bazza' date='Dec 20 2005, 04:39 PM']mmmmnnnnn..........these throttle bodies

what are they and what do they do ? 
[right][snapback]315238[/snapback][/right][/quote]

they replace the whole inlet manifold and throttle body with 4 individual throttles and air tracts

TB's have a larger overall surface area which lets more air into the cylinders which can have more fuel so more power

also due to the size of the throttle bodies dont slow down the air as much as one big throttle body would, which trumpets would also come in handy on the throttle bodys to also smooth out the flow of air. Its also dependant on how is mapped to how much power you'll get, and what injectors would be used.
[right][snapback]315295[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

thats using individual throttle bodies though which prevents each cylinder scavenging off the next its also a very N/A thing rather than turbo although i think the skyline uses them. i assume that the plenums seal against the throttle bodies inlets somehow but won't that mean using a retaining ring behind the trumpet.
Also obviously individual bodies are the best but what can be expected of just using a bigger throttle body as in a single one feeding the cylinders rather than an individual one for each cylinder

[url="http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB6&Number=29735&page=9&fpart=all"]CFD study on trumpets...[/url]