Hi Folks,
As the new owner of a 2001 IS200 SE with 90,000 miles on the clock, I thought I might pick brains in this forum as to what direction I should take first with the following.
The front tyres are showing the internal edge wear problems mentioned often in this forum. Current tread is inside 40mm very worn, rest of the tyre 4-5mm, both tyres showing the same wear.
After a life of driving front wheel drive cars, I feel, maybe imagine or fear, the front end sliding away a little to easily. I certainly don't have confidence turning into tight slowish corners. Don't really know how it should be feeling.
I would like to have the geometry set up at some point by Mr Bones to hopefully alleviate the tyre problem, and cure anything else that could be upsetting the handling, if there is a handling problem at all.
My thoughts are that maybe after this type of mileage, new dampers my be worth fitting, though they show no obvious signs of excess wear.
So what order?
Dampers, Bones,Tyres
Tyres, Bones, Dampers
Bones, plus whatever action he advises.
Thanks in advance
Nigel
Full Version: Dampers, Tyre Wear, Front End Fear.
I'd see Dr Bones - get your geometry sorted and some new tyres from him at a good price - then follow his advice!
Knows what he's talking about that fella...
Knows what he's talking about that fella...
Agree with Moffet, get it checked/set up first, then follow Tony's advice.
Theres a known issue with the IS is that the lower suspension arm can have weld splatter on which prevents correct adjustment....you may want to look at removing this (file) first
Thanks so far everyone.
So I check the lower arm for weld splatter, file off if found, then book in with Dr Bones for a assesment and rectification session.
Can only afford one change at a time so thats why I asked the question. Seems sensible reading back my own post and your replies to get the basic geometry right first then go from there.
Thanks again.
So I check the lower arm for weld splatter, file off if found, then book in with Dr Bones for a assesment and rectification session.
Can only afford one change at a time so thats why I asked the question. Seems sensible reading back my own post and your replies to get the basic geometry right first then go from there.
Thanks again.
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326554' date='Jan 31 2006, 08:45 AM']Theres a known issue with the IS is that the lower suspension arm can have weld splatter on which prevents correct adjustment....you may want to look at removing this (file) first [/quote]
first ive heard of it, Both the lower arms are cast, how can they have weld splatter on them?
, the upper wishbones however are pressed steel
i would look at getting your alignment checked firstly by tony, it is known that some dampers can fail early, but i think you will find that a propper set up by Tony and new tyres will give you back the confidence your currently lacking
[/quote]first ive heard of it, Both the lower arms are cast, how can they have weld splatter on them?
, the upper wishbones however are pressed steel
i would look at getting your alignment checked firstly by tony, it is known that some dampers can fail early, but i think you will find that a propper set up by Tony and new tyres will give you back the confidence your currently lacking
[quote name='Finackerbum' post='326713' date='Jan 31 2006, 05:43 PM']Thanks so far everyone.
So I check the lower arm for weld splatter, file off if found, then book in with Dr Bones for a assesment and rectification session.
Can only afford one change at a time so thats why I asked the question. Seems sensible reading back my own post and your replies to get the basic geometry right first then go from there.
Thanks again.[/quote]
The IS200/300 is a beautiful car but owns a 'Pants Geometry'..... but as bad as the tyres look and despite the poor handling the problem is correctable.
There is one more issue with the geo and that's the Camber position written by Lexus is wrong
this i can write for you but i will need 'habitual' information first.
[color="#3333FF"]Thanks for the kind words and recommendation everyone![/color]
So I check the lower arm for weld splatter, file off if found, then book in with Dr Bones for a assesment and rectification session.
Can only afford one change at a time so thats why I asked the question. Seems sensible reading back my own post and your replies to get the basic geometry right first then go from there.
Thanks again.[/quote]
The IS200/300 is a beautiful car but owns a 'Pants Geometry'..... but as bad as the tyres look and despite the poor handling the problem is correctable.
There is one more issue with the geo and that's the Camber position written by Lexus is wrong
this i can write for you but i will need 'habitual' information first.[color="#3333FF"]Thanks for the kind words and recommendation everyone![/color]
May I just say that I am not displeased with the handling of the car as such, just that compared to my last two, A Peugeot 206 GTI and a Focus Zetec, the front end does not have that "dig in feel" when turning into sharp slow corners. As a new owner of a rear wheel drive car, I am still getting to grips with the feel and weight shift differences when accelerating,braking and cornering etc.
Dr Bones, sorry for being thick, what do you mean by habitual information. is it how and where I drive or the current set up. Guessing these options from reading your previous posts.
I thank you for your offer of writing me a set-up, but I only trust you from reading the forum, and I'm not sure how a third party would react to be told that the information they have is wrong.
Hardest job is actually finding someone who has an opinion right or wrong, most places seem to go by the "computer says no" policy. Hence your reputation for taking time to actually understand and evolve the setting to suit the driver and car.
Dr Bones, sorry for being thick, what do you mean by habitual information. is it how and where I drive or the current set up. Guessing these options from reading your previous posts.
I thank you for your offer of writing me a set-up, but I only trust you from reading the forum, and I'm not sure how a third party would react to be told that the information they have is wrong.
Hardest job is actually finding someone who has an opinion right or wrong, most places seem to go by the "computer says no" policy. Hence your reputation for taking time to actually understand and evolve the setting to suit the driver and car.
[quote name='Monster-Mat' post='326723' date='Jan 31 2006, 06:10 PM'][quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326554' date='Jan 31 2006, 08:45 AM']
Theres a known issue with the IS is that the lower suspension arm can have weld splatter on which prevents correct adjustment....you may want to look at removing this (file) first[/quote]
first ive heard of it, Both the lower arms are cast, how can they have weld splatter on them?
, the upper wishbones however are pressed steel
i would look at getting your alignment checked firstly by tony, it is known that some dampers can fail early, but i think you will find that a propper set up by Tony and new tyres will give you back the confidence your currently lacking
[/quote]
I can post up the official service bulletin if you want
Theres a known issue with the IS is that the lower suspension arm can have weld splatter on which prevents correct adjustment....you may want to look at removing this (file) first
[/quote]first ive heard of it, Both the lower arms are cast, how can they have weld splatter on them?
, the upper wishbones however are pressed steel
i would look at getting your alignment checked firstly by tony, it is known that some dampers can fail early, but i think you will find that a propper set up by Tony and new tyres will give you back the confidence your currently lacking
[/quote]
I can post up the official service bulletin if you want
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326792' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:22 PM'][quote name='Monster-Mat' post='326723' date='Jan 31 2006, 06:10 PM']
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326554' date='Jan 31 2006, 08:45 AM']
Theres a known issue with the IS is that the lower suspension arm can have weld splatter on which prevents correct adjustment....you may want to look at removing this (file) first[/quote]
first ive heard of it, Both the lower arms are cast, how can they have weld splatter on them?
, the upper wishbones however are pressed steel
i would look at getting your alignment checked firstly by tony, it is known that some dampers can fail early, but i think you will find that a propper set up by Tony and new tyres will give you back the confidence your currently lacking
[/quote]
I can post up the official service bulletin if you want
[/quote]
yep, would be good to see it.
are you sure the weld splatter is on the lower arms, as the adjusting bolt goes through the subframe, Which is steel, but the arms are definatly cast, infact the only steel plate stuff on the front suspension is:
[b]bracket shock absorber[/b], which is bolted to the lower arm(cast), and the [b]front subframe[/b]
the following front suspension parts are all machined cast parts and have no welded items on them at all, and therefore wont have weld splatter:
[b]Knuckle steering[/b] (hub)
[b]Link Control arm[/b](the one that runs back from the hub, and fixes under the footwells)
[b]Arm lower control[/b]( the lower arm, which is the one the adjuster attatches to the front subframe)
[b]Joint lower ball[/b]( is affixed to the steering arm, and under the hub)
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326554' date='Jan 31 2006, 08:45 AM']
Theres a known issue with the IS is that the lower suspension arm can have weld splatter on which prevents correct adjustment....you may want to look at removing this (file) first
[/quote]first ive heard of it, Both the lower arms are cast, how can they have weld splatter on them?
, the upper wishbones however are pressed steel
i would look at getting your alignment checked firstly by tony, it is known that some dampers can fail early, but i think you will find that a propper set up by Tony and new tyres will give you back the confidence your currently lacking
[/quote]
I can post up the official service bulletin if you want
[/quote]
yep, would be good to see it.
are you sure the weld splatter is on the lower arms, as the adjusting bolt goes through the subframe, Which is steel, but the arms are definatly cast, infact the only steel plate stuff on the front suspension is:
[b]bracket shock absorber[/b], which is bolted to the lower arm(cast), and the [b]front subframe[/b]
the following front suspension parts are all machined cast parts and have no welded items on them at all, and therefore wont have weld splatter:
[b]Knuckle steering[/b] (hub)
[b]Link Control arm[/b](the one that runs back from the hub, and fixes under the footwells)
[b]Arm lower control[/b]( the lower arm, which is the one the adjuster attatches to the front subframe)
[b]Joint lower ball[/b]( is affixed to the steering arm, and under the hub)
is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics...............
Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo
Service Bulletin
OVERSEAS CUSTOMER
SERVICE TECHNICAL DIV.
Ref. No. : CP-5005
Page : 1 of 3
Section : Chassis /
Power Train
Date : May.,2005
Area Application : Europe
Model Name : IS200, IS300
Model Code : GXE10, JCE10
Subject : Front Tire Uneven Wear
This Service Bulletin is to inform you of the production improvement and field fix for the subject concern.
DESCRIPTION OF PHENOMENON
Customer complains that Front tire require replacement earlier than expected due to uneven wear. The
inner edge of the tire is wearing prematurely.
Part No. Information :
Production Effective :
New Part No. New Part Name Qty
NA NA NA
VIN Production Date
NA NA
Service Bulletin
OVERSEAS CUSTOMER
SERVICE TECHNICAL DIV.
Ref. No. : CP-5005
Page : 2 of 3
Chassis/Power Train
Front Suspension
FIELD FIX REPAIR PROCEDURE
1. Check front wheel alignment.
2. If within current RM specification, adjust to Field Fix re-adjustment values (2.4 mm +- 0.6 mm
(total for LH an RH)).
3. If outside current RM specification, continue with following procedures:
4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the camber adjusting nut and the
cross member.
5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces
of the adjusting cam nut and cross member.
(a) Use a file as shown in below drawing.
(
Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the
cross member (inside and outside).
6. Inspect and adjust wheel alignment as specified in the Repair Manual (Other than toe-in).
7. Adjust toe-in to the following measurements:
Use file to remove spatter
C117146E01
Camber adjusting
cam nut of No.1 lower
suspension arm
No.2 Lower Arm
No.1 Lower Arm
C117140E01
Service Bulletin
OVERSEAS CUSTOMER
SERVICE TECHNICAL DIV.
Ref. No. : CP-5005
Page : 3 of 3
Toe-in (total) A + B: 0°12' +- 0°06' (0.2° +- 0.1°)
C - D: 2 +- 1 mm (0.08 +- 0.04 in)
A
D
B
C
Front
C117141E01
Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo
Service Bulletin
OVERSEAS CUSTOMER
SERVICE TECHNICAL DIV.
Ref. No. : CP-5005
Page : 1 of 3
Section : Chassis /
Power Train
Date : May.,2005
Area Application : Europe
Model Name : IS200, IS300
Model Code : GXE10, JCE10
Subject : Front Tire Uneven Wear
This Service Bulletin is to inform you of the production improvement and field fix for the subject concern.
DESCRIPTION OF PHENOMENON
Customer complains that Front tire require replacement earlier than expected due to uneven wear. The
inner edge of the tire is wearing prematurely.
Part No. Information :
Production Effective :
New Part No. New Part Name Qty
NA NA NA
VIN Production Date
NA NA
Service Bulletin
OVERSEAS CUSTOMER
SERVICE TECHNICAL DIV.
Ref. No. : CP-5005
Page : 2 of 3
Chassis/Power Train
Front Suspension
FIELD FIX REPAIR PROCEDURE
1. Check front wheel alignment.
2. If within current RM specification, adjust to Field Fix re-adjustment values (2.4 mm +- 0.6 mm
(total for LH an RH)).
3. If outside current RM specification, continue with following procedures:
4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the camber adjusting nut and the
cross member.
5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces
of the adjusting cam nut and cross member.
(a) Use a file as shown in below drawing.
(
Remove spatter around the indicated portion of thecross member (inside and outside).
6. Inspect and adjust wheel alignment as specified in the Repair Manual (Other than toe-in).
7. Adjust toe-in to the following measurements:
Use file to remove spatter
C117146E01
Camber adjusting
cam nut of No.1 lower
suspension arm
No.2 Lower Arm
No.1 Lower Arm
C117140E01
Service Bulletin
OVERSEAS CUSTOMER
SERVICE TECHNICAL DIV.
Ref. No. : CP-5005
Page : 3 of 3
Toe-in (total) A + B: 0°12' +- 0°06' (0.2° +- 0.1°)
C - D: 2 +- 1 mm (0.08 +- 0.04 in)
A
D
B
C
Front
C117141E01
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............
Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo .[/quote]
Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they.....
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the [b]camber adjusting nut and the
cross member.[/b]
5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces
of the [b]adjusting cam nut and cross member.[/b]
.........................................................................................................
Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the
[b]cross member (inside and outside).[/b][/quote]
so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.
NOT the cast arms....
Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo
.[/quote]Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they.....
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the [b]camber adjusting nut and the
cross member.[/b]
5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces
of the [b]adjusting cam nut and cross member.[/b]
.........................................................................................................
Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the
[b]cross member (inside and outside).[/b][/quote]
so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.
NOT the cast arms....
[quote name='Monster-Mat' post='326798' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:51 PM'][quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']
is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............
Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo .[/quote]
Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they.....
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the [b]camber adjusting nut and the
cross member.[/b]
5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces
of the [b]adjusting cam nut and cross member.[/b]
.........................................................................................................
Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the
[b]cross member (inside and outside).[/b][/quote]
so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.
NOT the cast arms....
[/quote]
I have to agree..... of the 100's set so far i have never seen weld spatter over the Camber adjuster cams or the control arms.
Cross member 'YES' I've got cuts ( [color="#FF0000"]-----------------------[/color] ) that big from them
is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............
Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo
.[/quote]Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they.....
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the [b]camber adjusting nut and the
cross member.[/b]
5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces
of the [b]adjusting cam nut and cross member.[/b]
.........................................................................................................
Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the
[b]cross member (inside and outside).[/b][/quote]
so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.
NOT the cast arms....
[/quote]
I have to agree..... of the 100's set so far i have never seen weld spatter over the Camber adjuster cams or the control arms.
Cross member 'YES' I've got cuts ( [color="#FF0000"]-----------------------[/color] ) that big from them
[quote name='Finackerbum' post='326788' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:06 PM']May I just say that I am not displeased with the handling of the car as such, just that compared to my last two, A Peugeot 206 GTI and a Focus Zetec, the front end does not have that "dig in feel" when turning into sharp slow corners. As a new owner of a rear wheel drive car, I am still getting to grips with the feel and weight shift differences when accelerating,braking and cornering etc.
Dr Bones, sorry for being thick, what do you mean by habitual information. is it how and where I drive or the current set up. Guessing these options from reading your previous posts.
I thank you for your offer of writing me a set-up, but I only trust you from reading the forum, and I'm not sure how a third party would react to be told that the information they have is wrong.
Hardest job is actually finding someone who has an opinion right or wrong, most places seem to go by the "computer says no" policy. Hence your reputation for taking time to actually understand and evolve the setting to suit the driver and car.[/quote]
'Thick nothing'..... i apologize in assuming you would understand my terminology.
Habitual is a 'funneling method' i use to categorize you and your driving areas... sort of like Snooker, you have a desired area for the ball and target that area..... a little maths and it should land as expected.
Most of my work is remote.... i never even see the car, UK/World so this procedure catagorizes.....
If you need help let me know... i dont bite..... i do dribble though....
and you will need to Donate to the 'save the cat fund' 
...... long story!........and foot.. ........ someone stop me!...... He's back!
Dr Bones, sorry for being thick, what do you mean by habitual information. is it how and where I drive or the current set up. Guessing these options from reading your previous posts.
I thank you for your offer of writing me a set-up, but I only trust you from reading the forum, and I'm not sure how a third party would react to be told that the information they have is wrong.
Hardest job is actually finding someone who has an opinion right or wrong, most places seem to go by the "computer says no" policy. Hence your reputation for taking time to actually understand and evolve the setting to suit the driver and car.[/quote]
'Thick nothing'..... i apologize in assuming you would understand my terminology.
Habitual is a 'funneling method' i use to categorize you and your driving areas... sort of like Snooker, you have a desired area for the ball and target that area..... a little maths and it should land as expected.
Most of my work is remote.... i never even see the car, UK/World so this procedure catagorizes.....
If you need help let me know... i dont bite..... i do dribble though....
and you will need to Donate to the 'save the cat fund' ...... long story!........and foot.. ........ someone stop me!...... He's back!
[quote name='Monster-Mat' post='326798' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:51 PM'][quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']
is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............
Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo .[/quote]
Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they.....
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the [b]camber adjusting nut and the
cross member.[/b]
5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces
of the [b]adjusting cam nut and cross member.[/b]
.........................................................................................................
Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the
[b]cross member (inside and outside).[/b][/quote]
so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.
NOT the cast arms....
[/quote]
could not remember exactly what or where just the term weld splatter anyway will be sending the doc to Tony
is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............
Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo
.[/quote]Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they.....
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the [b]camber adjusting nut and the
cross member.[/b]
5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces
of the [b]adjusting cam nut and cross member.[/b]
.........................................................................................................
Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the
[b]cross member (inside and outside).[/b][/quote]
so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.
NOT the cast arms....
[/quote]
could not remember exactly what or where just the term weld splatter
anyway will be sending the doc to Tony
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326845' date='Feb 1 2006, 06:04 AM'][quote name='Monster-Mat' post='326798' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:51 PM']
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']
is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............
Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo .[/quote]
Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they.....
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the [b]camber adjusting nut and the
cross member.[/b]
5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces
of the [b]adjusting cam nut and cross member.[/b]
.........................................................................................................
Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the
[b]cross member (inside and outside).[/b][/quote]
so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.
NOT the cast arms....
[/quote]
could not remember exactly what or where just the term weld splatter anyway will be sending the doc to Tony
[/quote]
Thank You!..... true LOC collaboration.... any information that over-laps our profession in a constructive format is valuable........... ( That was a long sentance?) i'm quite proud of that!...
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']
is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............
Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo
.[/quote]Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they.....
[quote name='ProLex-UK' post='326797' date='Jan 31 2006, 09:44 PM']4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the [b]camber adjusting nut and the
cross member.[/b]
5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces
of the [b]adjusting cam nut and cross member.[/b]
.........................................................................................................
Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the
[b]cross member (inside and outside).[/b][/quote]
so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.
NOT the cast arms....
[/quote]
could not remember exactly what or where just the term weld splatter
anyway will be sending the doc to Tony[/quote]
Thank You!..... true LOC collaboration.... any information that over-laps our profession in a constructive format is valuable........... ( That was a long sentance?) i'm quite proud of that!...
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