MK4 LS400 having trouble starting
Hi all,
On about 2 or 3 occasions over the last 3 weeks my Mk4 LS400 has been cranking over slow on the 1st attempt and did not start on the 1st attempt when starting it cold. On the 1st try the engine sounded like it wanted to turn over but would just cut out blank half way through, but on the 2nd try it would start fine. I suspected it was the battery and replaced the battery with a brand new 70Ah Bosch AsiaSilver battery.
After replacing the battery all was fine for 1 week until this evening when I tried to start it from cold again. On the 1st 4 attempts the engine did not even try to crank over and all I could hear was a slight “click” sound coming from the engine. On the 5th attempt it started fine like nothing was wrong.
The car only has 62,000 on the clock. Replacing the battery was still a good idea because the old battery was the original Panasonic one and it was due to die out anytime soon anyway and also it has eliminated the possibility of a bad battery.
Any ideas what could be wrong ? Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Many thanks.
Full Version: Mk4 Ls400 Having Trouble Starting
Lexus Owners Club > Lexus Models > LS 400 / Lexus 430 / Lexus LS460 / Lexus 600h > Engine & Transmission
hmm i suspect the starter, most toypota starters are rebuildable...(ive done a few)
it may just need new contacts....
it may just need new contacts....
Hi
If its any help, I am having same problem with my GS300.
My problem is the starter motor.
As you say just clicks when you turn key in ignition or turns very slowly.
The eratic operation of the starter will deteriorate in a few days
As I have found to my expense a dodgy starter can kill a battery in no time.
If its any help, I am having same problem with my GS300.
My problem is the starter motor.
As you say just clicks when you turn key in ignition or turns very slowly.
The eratic operation of the starter will deteriorate in a few days
As I have found to my expense a dodgy starter can kill a battery in no time.
....And I once did the same thing. The NEW BATTERY was faulty!!
Don't eliminate THAT angle absolutely!
Good luck.
Don't eliminate THAT angle absolutely!
Good luck.
Hi,
It might also be worth doing a ECU reset,just take the battery lead of for a few minutes that might help
Chips.
It might also be worth doing a ECU reset,just take the battery lead of for a few minutes that might help
Chips.
when it does start may by worth checking the ALTERNATOR charge as i have just had to do it on mine it not to hard to change
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the tips. So far I did a few easy checks this weekend:
1. Chris Skelton made a good point which hadn’t crossed my mind. So checked the new battery by turning on the lights for a couple of mins (to remove any surface charge) and then using a volt meter on the battery. The voltage reads 12.67 volts which is correct for a properly functioning battery. I think 12.4v and anything below that means its not charged properly or dying out. Although I’ve not done a heavy load test on the battery it seems new battery is unlikely to be the problem because it hasn’t given any starting problems whatsoever in the last 25 to 30 starts.
2. As lutonmatt mentioned, I checked a quick check of the alternator by starting the engine and putting the volt meter across the battery terminals. The voltage is stable at 14.32 volts (at 8 degrees Celsius) which seems in range.
3. Took out the starter relay and checked for continuity between terminals 1 and 2 and no continuity betweens terminals 2 and 5 and it was ok.
From reading around on the US part of this forum, it seems that quite a few people have had starter motor problems on the 1998 + LS400. The problem seems to be worn copper contacts. For example this is a good link which shows the common problem part – i.e. the worn copper contact
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...0motor&st=0
But from past experience, all the symptoms point to the starter, especially if it continues to get worse whereby I hear a click when starting the engine and upon subsequent attempt it fires up without problems.
In case it comes to replacing the starter I found out about replacement. A Lexus rebuilt starter from Toyota is £204 (inc VAT) plus is £30 surcharge which I can get back if I give them my old starter. The rebuilt starter comes with a 3 year guarantee. A brand new Lexus starter is £405 (inc VAT). Lexus want £488 labour to replace it since it involves removing the intake manifold.
Will try to look into this more. But approaching £500 for labour, I’m not giving up that easily
Thanks for the tips. So far I did a few easy checks this weekend:
1. Chris Skelton made a good point which hadn’t crossed my mind. So checked the new battery by turning on the lights for a couple of mins (to remove any surface charge) and then using a volt meter on the battery. The voltage reads 12.67 volts which is correct for a properly functioning battery. I think 12.4v and anything below that means its not charged properly or dying out. Although I’ve not done a heavy load test on the battery it seems new battery is unlikely to be the problem because it hasn’t given any starting problems whatsoever in the last 25 to 30 starts.
2. As lutonmatt mentioned, I checked a quick check of the alternator by starting the engine and putting the volt meter across the battery terminals. The voltage is stable at 14.32 volts (at 8 degrees Celsius) which seems in range.
3. Took out the starter relay and checked for continuity between terminals 1 and 2 and no continuity betweens terminals 2 and 5 and it was ok.
From reading around on the US part of this forum, it seems that quite a few people have had starter motor problems on the 1998 + LS400. The problem seems to be worn copper contacts. For example this is a good link which shows the common problem part – i.e. the worn copper contact
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...0motor&st=0
But from past experience, all the symptoms point to the starter, especially if it continues to get worse whereby I hear a click when starting the engine and upon subsequent attempt it fires up without problems.
In case it comes to replacing the starter I found out about replacement. A Lexus rebuilt starter from Toyota is £204 (inc VAT) plus is £30 surcharge which I can get back if I give them my old starter. The rebuilt starter comes with a 3 year guarantee. A brand new Lexus starter is £405 (inc VAT). Lexus want £488 labour to replace it since it involves removing the intake manifold.
Will try to look into this more. But approaching £500 for labour, I’m not giving up that easily
Wow! I'm going to sell mine immediately and go back to a 2CV! (Can buy a whole engine for £500!)
Though, having just done weekend drive to Bedford and back in awful rain, I THINK the LS is a BIT more comfy! (AND faster!
)
Good luck and (literally!) keep us posted!
Though, having just done weekend drive to Bedford and back in awful rain, I THINK the LS is a BIT more comfy! (AND faster!
)Good luck and (literally!) keep us posted!
Try your local motor factors for a recon starter motor, sure it will be less than a Lexus one.
Hi All,
An update on my starting problems.
Starter deteriorated to a point where if the car was cold it would take 30 attempts to start. I checked the relay by trying another one and no luck. All fingers were now definitely pointing to a faulty starter. Got it replaced from Lexus dealer at a cost of £900.
The breakdown is:
Labour by Lexus - £600
Re-build Toyota Denso starter - £200
Gaskets you need to replace while opening up the inlet manifold and water pipes etc - £100
It maybe false economy to cheap out on a starter because you will be paying a lot of labour to have it replaced. Even if you are doing the job yourself you will be spending a lot of your time taking it apart and putting it together again and on top of that removing bunch of gaskets which cannot be re-used.
If I had gone for a brand new starter the bill would have been £1100 (i.e £400 for a new starter). But the rebuild Toyota Denso starters are supposed to be rebuilt to a very high standard.
I’ve now done some stone cold starts in the mornings and it is now starting up fine. One thing I do notice is that the engine cranking is noticeably much quicker than before. Before I had the starting troubles I was a little puzzled that even after changing the battery why the cranking time was a bit longer than what it should be. Now it fire up fantastic again.
I’m pleased the car is starting normal again, but what I am disappointed with is that a premium Japanese brand like Lexus fails on such a simple aspect and it cost so much to get it fixed, especially given the car is not so old or high on mileage. I’ve had Hondas with 145,000 on the clock which I have used on heavy start-stop intensive runs and never had starting troubles.
Thanks for the tips and pointers on this one guys.
I am putting it down to the fact that this was just a bad starter in a big batch and it is not representative of Lexus build quality. – so no need to ditch the LS for a 2CV just yet Chris S
An update on my starting problems.
Starter deteriorated to a point where if the car was cold it would take 30 attempts to start. I checked the relay by trying another one and no luck. All fingers were now definitely pointing to a faulty starter. Got it replaced from Lexus dealer at a cost of £900.
The breakdown is:
Labour by Lexus - £600
Re-build Toyota Denso starter - £200
Gaskets you need to replace while opening up the inlet manifold and water pipes etc - £100
It maybe false economy to cheap out on a starter because you will be paying a lot of labour to have it replaced. Even if you are doing the job yourself you will be spending a lot of your time taking it apart and putting it together again and on top of that removing bunch of gaskets which cannot be re-used.
If I had gone for a brand new starter the bill would have been £1100 (i.e £400 for a new starter). But the rebuild Toyota Denso starters are supposed to be rebuilt to a very high standard.
I’ve now done some stone cold starts in the mornings and it is now starting up fine. One thing I do notice is that the engine cranking is noticeably much quicker than before. Before I had the starting troubles I was a little puzzled that even after changing the battery why the cranking time was a bit longer than what it should be. Now it fire up fantastic again.
I’m pleased the car is starting normal again, but what I am disappointed with is that a premium Japanese brand like Lexus fails on such a simple aspect and it cost so much to get it fixed, especially given the car is not so old or high on mileage. I’ve had Hondas with 145,000 on the clock which I have used on heavy start-stop intensive runs and never had starting troubles.
Thanks for the tips and pointers on this one guys.
I am putting it down to the fact that this was just a bad starter in a big batch and it is not representative of Lexus build quality. – so no need to ditch the LS for a 2CV just yet Chris S
i am doing the gearbox on mine and i still have not seen the starter i think its under the inlet mainfold on the v but i have not got the box out yet
i think i would like to do the starter
but i know what you feel like when you have a car that is on such a high standard that bits go wrong but any thing can go wrong just its a shame its costly when it does
i think i would like to do the starter
but i know what you feel like when you have a car that is on such a high standard that bits go wrong but any thing can go wrong just its a shame its costly when it does
QUOTE(GoldfingerLS @ Dec 30 2006, 02:04 PM) [snapback]405343[/snapback]
Hi All,
An update on my starting problems.
Starter deteriorated to a point where if the car was cold it would take 30 attempts to start. I checked the relay by trying another one and no luck. All fingers were now definitely pointing to a faulty starter. Got it replaced from Lexus dealer at a cost of £900.
The breakdown is:
Labour by Lexus - £600
Re-build Toyota Denso starter - £200
Gaskets you need to replace while opening up the inlet manifold and water pipes etc - £100
It maybe false economy to cheap out on a starter because you will be paying a lot of labour to have it replaced. Even if you are doing the job yourself you will be spending a lot of your time taking it apart and putting it together again and on top of that removing bunch of gaskets which cannot be re-used.
If I had gone for a brand new starter the bill would have been £1100 (i.e £400 for a new starter). But the rebuild Toyota Denso starters are supposed to be rebuilt to a very high standard.
I’ve now done some stone cold starts in the mornings and it is now starting up fine. One thing I do notice is that the engine cranking is noticeably much quicker than before. Before I had the starting troubles I was a little puzzled that even after changing the battery why the cranking time was a bit longer than what it should be. Now it fire up fantastic again.
I’m pleased the car is starting normal again, but what I am disappointed with is that a premium Japanese brand like Lexus fails on such a simple aspect and it cost so much to get it fixed, especially given the car is not so old or high on mileage. I’ve had Hondas with 145,000 on the clock which I have used on heavy start-stop intensive runs and never had starting troubles.
Thanks for the tips and pointers on this one guys.
I am putting it down to the fact that this was just a bad starter in a big batch and it is not representative of Lexus build quality. – so no need to ditch the LS for a 2CV just yet Chris S
An update on my starting problems.
Starter deteriorated to a point where if the car was cold it would take 30 attempts to start. I checked the relay by trying another one and no luck. All fingers were now definitely pointing to a faulty starter. Got it replaced from Lexus dealer at a cost of £900.
The breakdown is:
Labour by Lexus - £600
Re-build Toyota Denso starter - £200
Gaskets you need to replace while opening up the inlet manifold and water pipes etc - £100
It maybe false economy to cheap out on a starter because you will be paying a lot of labour to have it replaced. Even if you are doing the job yourself you will be spending a lot of your time taking it apart and putting it together again and on top of that removing bunch of gaskets which cannot be re-used.
If I had gone for a brand new starter the bill would have been £1100 (i.e £400 for a new starter). But the rebuild Toyota Denso starters are supposed to be rebuilt to a very high standard.
I’ve now done some stone cold starts in the mornings and it is now starting up fine. One thing I do notice is that the engine cranking is noticeably much quicker than before. Before I had the starting troubles I was a little puzzled that even after changing the battery why the cranking time was a bit longer than what it should be. Now it fire up fantastic again.
I’m pleased the car is starting normal again, but what I am disappointed with is that a premium Japanese brand like Lexus fails on such a simple aspect and it cost so much to get it fixed, especially given the car is not so old or high on mileage. I’ve had Hondas with 145,000 on the clock which I have used on heavy start-stop intensive runs and never had starting troubles.
Thanks for the tips and pointers on this one guys.
I am putting it down to the fact that this was just a bad starter in a big batch and it is not representative of Lexus build quality. – so no need to ditch the LS for a 2CV just yet Chris S
Thanks! My 'What cars have you owned' list would have a Azam van 2CV (425 cc) as N0 1. Didn't REALLY want to go back......except to the (relative) youth that accompanied it!
My car starts pretty well, (he said touching wood....) so hopefully......
Have a good 2007.
Hey Matt,
That’s exactly where it is. It sits inside the V of the engine just on top of the engine flywheel. Although mine is a Mark4, the things you would have to remove on your Mark3 LS would be the similar. You will have to remove:
1. Throttle body and hence you will need to replace the throttle body gasket the goes in between the TB and inlet manifold.
2. The whole of the Inlet manifold. There are a lot of connectors and hoses to disconnect. The inlet manifold is in two sections, its better if you can lift off the upper and lower sections all in one go rather than separating them. Not sure what access is actually like under the bonnet on your Mark3 to the nuts and bolts that hold the lower manifold onto the engine block. In any case you will need two inlet manifold gaskets (one for each bank of cylinders) that sit in between the cylinder head and the lower intake manifold. If you end up separating the upper and lower inlet manifold you will also need the 4 gaskets that sit in between the upper and lower inlet manifold.
3. Water bypass pipe that comes from the back of the engine and feeds into the water pump and replace the rubber O ring on the end of it.
4. Rear water bypass joint and the two gaskets on either side.
Now you have access to the starter motor.
On the Mark3 you may need to remove one of the Three Way Cat (TWC) from the front exhaust pipe to access the EGR pipe that feeds into the exhaust manifold. Hence you will need the correct gaskets for the TWC exhaust gaskets (which ever side you remove there are two gaskets on each side). I think you only need to remove one side (and hence 2 gaskets) depending on which side the EGR pipe is on.
I wish I had a garage and a ramp.
Best of luck.
Chris – what do you think of this nice little number?
http://www.forum-auto.com/automobiles-myth...sujet302821.htm
there’s a pic of the 2CV starter about halfway down the page in case you need to replace one hehe
The dream car of my youth was the LS400 when it came out in 1990. Back in 1990 as a young lad I use to see a Mk1 everyday on my walk to school and from school and every time I saw it, it was like WOW knowing it was a very expensive car.
That’s exactly where it is. It sits inside the V of the engine just on top of the engine flywheel. Although mine is a Mark4, the things you would have to remove on your Mark3 LS would be the similar. You will have to remove:
1. Throttle body and hence you will need to replace the throttle body gasket the goes in between the TB and inlet manifold.
2. The whole of the Inlet manifold. There are a lot of connectors and hoses to disconnect. The inlet manifold is in two sections, its better if you can lift off the upper and lower sections all in one go rather than separating them. Not sure what access is actually like under the bonnet on your Mark3 to the nuts and bolts that hold the lower manifold onto the engine block. In any case you will need two inlet manifold gaskets (one for each bank of cylinders) that sit in between the cylinder head and the lower intake manifold. If you end up separating the upper and lower inlet manifold you will also need the 4 gaskets that sit in between the upper and lower inlet manifold.
3. Water bypass pipe that comes from the back of the engine and feeds into the water pump and replace the rubber O ring on the end of it.
4. Rear water bypass joint and the two gaskets on either side.
Now you have access to the starter motor.
On the Mark3 you may need to remove one of the Three Way Cat (TWC) from the front exhaust pipe to access the EGR pipe that feeds into the exhaust manifold. Hence you will need the correct gaskets for the TWC exhaust gaskets (which ever side you remove there are two gaskets on each side). I think you only need to remove one side (and hence 2 gaskets) depending on which side the EGR pipe is on.
I wish I had a garage and a ramp.
Best of luck.
Chris – what do you think of this nice little number?
http://www.forum-auto.com/automobiles-myth...sujet302821.htm
there’s a pic of the 2CV starter about halfway down the page in case you need to replace one hehe
The dream car of my youth was the LS400 when it came out in 1990. Back in 1990 as a young lad I use to see a Mk1 everyday on my walk to school and from school and every time I saw it, it was like WOW knowing it was a very expensive car.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.