Hit a new low yesterday evening! Whilst travailing back in the pouring rain, the car began to Kangaroo for about a mile. The car had already been in for a re-flash to cure this (without success!) After a mile the car switched to limp home and 30mph on the M1 is real fun.

This is the second time this has happened and is a real concern as it has now covered 56000m. The end of the warranty is looming!

The RAC sorted out a hire car this morning and now have a lovely Vectra

To say I'm fed up is a understatement. The pursuit of excellence seems miles away to me

Feel sorry for the 220D owners..Lexus shouldn't have introduced it. Presume it was the emissions or possibly the European fleet market, although the mpg doesn't sound all that brilliant, no autobox and that dodgy gearing

Mine's approaching 16000 now, and hasn't suffered this yet.

I said I wouldn't whinge about economy, but mine will not better 40 mpg any more. This means it stays home and I use hire cars as my allowance per mile falls short.... The performance has deteriorated of late - it's become sluggish and 1st gear is painfully slow. The flat spot is huge, and I think it needs to go in again at some point soon.

The passenger seat has a rattle inside it, which is like chinese water torture, but it comes and goes...and happen on motorways....I daren't tell the wife!

I have to say though, I too am already looking forward to the day my 220d finally goes. The spark has all but gone...I may have to consider my financial options again as March looms...and it won't be a Lexus again at this rate!

Oh just remembered, I'm broke...so if I change it won't be a new car!

After nearly 2 years of ownership and 23k miles of driving like an OAP to get mediocre fuel consumption (40ish at best) I have had enough. Car is a piece of S Beemer 320d coupe and 50+ mph here I come.

Can someone explain what this thread is about? What does it mean to "kangaroo"?

I've test-driven a BMW 320d, Saab 93 and Lexus 220d over the past 3 weekends, and so far, the Lexus is in front by some distance. I know that Jamboo is a long-term Lexo-sceptic so forgive me if I dismiss your contribution, but I'm still curious to understand what the complaint is here.

I'd appreciate some comments from the other side of the argument. I've found all 3 cars very enjoyable to drive incidentally, but the attention to detail with the Lexus, and the way I've been treated by the sales and service people has made a really positive impression on me. There's a sense of fundamental commitment to quality about Lexus that isn't quite matched by Saab and BMW, even though their cars have a lot going for them. An example: Both the BMW and Saab delivered to me were chock-full of extras like sat-nav, top hi-fi, leather seats etc. Nothing was said about this when the cars were delivered (I just happen to know what the basic models come with). The guy who delivered the Lexus apologised for delivering the basic spec but explained that they didn't want to mislead potential customers. There's a kind of dignity about that attitude that I liked.

But what's this kangaroo thing? I've read reams of stuff about these 3 cars (and others in this bracket) but not come across this expression before.

Thanks.

fred

PS Re the last post, my 2 full days of driving on motorway and country lanes, and deliberately not like an OAP for testing purposes, have given me 44mpg in the 220d. Not as good as the 49 mpg the BMW 320d gave me, but not different enough to worry about.

I'm not a long term sceptic at all. I just tell it like it is. My experience is 100% accurate based over 2 years of dealings with both a Lexus dealership and a car. There are loads of Lexus fans on this site who will shout all things positive. I just like to say what I have found. That's where the benefit of an owners club comes in. Else it's a fan club.

Had I known then what I know now, I might have waited until 2007 before buying the Lexus, and stuck it with the Audi. A 250SE Auto with MM would have been on my drive now!!

I've always said that a near perfect car is the 250SE Auto. The diesel from my experience, all the ECU mods and the like, is from my view, a slightly compromised car. Enough so not to want another 220d...

Kangarooing I think is the lurching when the car goes into SAFE mode.

PS - a 250Auto can give you 40+mpg on A roads - that's the key issue here! When you add to this drivers who have had major problems with the 220d (Harry being one) (Read Nov2007 What Car mag), it really makes you wonder what it'll be like after the warranty is out!!

But what's this kangaroo thing? I've read reams of stuff about these 3 cars (and others in this bracket) but not come across this expression before.
[/quote]
Hi Fred

The car was stuttering or hesitating but before it broke down it did it non-stop for about 1/2 a mile. It had also started to suffer for turbo lag in first gear, not coming in until 2500rpm, I didn't realize how dangerous this is at junctions etc.

44mpg is fantastic, I'm currently av 31 but have had it up to 37. At the minute it doesn't matter how carefully I try I can't get anywhere that.

Last night I sent a very strong email to Lexus Leicester's head principle, lets see where we go from here.

My honest advice Fred is buy the BMW as I will be doing in September

Harry, lexus should replace your car. This is not normal at all!

good and fair point.

Fredsmith> I believe that IS220d is a good quality car. There are two weak points:
1. MPG
2. rattling


ad 1: IS220d is economical, but you have to "work" on it - there are few topics abot this on this forum
ad 2: important is, that despite it is a diesel, it is still quiet car and therefore if you drive without the stereo, you hear many things - I would say unhearable in other diesels. And truth is, that interior has weak points. I had 3 problems and I sorted it by myself and my car is quiet as new but I believe to Jamboo and others.
However after about 6 years and plenty of new cars (citroen, alfa, mercedes...) this (and corolla verso) are first cars, which for almost 1,5 years go to the dealer just for regular servicing.

If I was buing car for same money, it would be IS220d again.

People like Harry are exception. But this is no excuse for lexus. Everyone can make a mistake today, but it is important to see it and do things to improve it.

Just to add my twopenneth worth - I have had my 250 Sport now for almost 2 years - not a rattle in sight and it just gets better and better. I have now covered 17000 miles and the engine is a dream - it gets more and more responsive and refined as the miles go by.

Normally I would change my car after 2 years but this does not even enter my mind at the moment. I'm totally delighted with it and no other model in its class appeals to me at all.

Hard lines on people who have bought a dud but I can only tell it as I find it.

Harry, for Fred's benefit could the "kangaroo" effect be called spluttering?

Fred,
Jamboo is as honest as the day is long and only tells it as he finds it. He's trying to be helpful. Like him, I'm not interested in being a member of a fan club, praise where it's due and also criticism where it's due.
I am also going through the selection process but don't fancy a 220d based on what I've read on this forum. If you get a bit of spare time I would suggest you scroll back through the threads, you'll learn quite a lot about the merits of the different models. If the 250Auto is a possible buy for you I would suggest you have a drive in one.

OK, fair enough everyone. Sorry if I was a little defensive. It's a bit annoying finishing an extended test drive in a car that seemed great only to be told that it's a "dud".

There are reasons why I preferred the idea of the diesel but if the difference is that stark, I will have to think again about the 250.

Well done Fred, good response.

Warn 0%, (bottom left hand corner). What's that all about?

its a naughty meter,if youve been a bad boy on the forum-you get a % warning and only you can see your own,ie i cant see your warn meter,but can see mine

Me too, the performance of mine seems worse now - fuel won't go above 37mpg even on huge motorway runs and first gear is just scary so pulling out quickly on roundabouts means superhero levels of braveness or massive clutch slip!

I've spoken to our fleet manager and am swapping mine for a 320d Msport estate which is due back into our 'pool' in Jan/Feb, it's 9 months old but I'm looking forward to getting it I have to say!

I think there is a big problem here and obviously Lexus are not going to admit it. I'm contacting Lexus GB customer relations at Lunch but am not very hopeful. Then going in to Lexus Leicester this afternoon, but I will not leave with my car unless it is completely fixed. Apparently there is a new modal next year but they're not making any promises about mpg, its to get the tax (company car?) band down! Sorry but I'm out of here!

you will not be dissapointed in the 320d m sport, it has a peach of an engine and although mine is an auto with only 3k on the clock it can return 45 mpg on mixed driving and 50+ ish on motorway runs and I do not have to adopt any style of driving to get to these figures .My IS250 sel auto mm will also give good mpg on motorway driving and was pleased I did not go down the 220d route when purchasing my second car.I somewhat feel sorry for the Lexus sales guys ,they must dread any regular customers who start looking at their oil burner as I felt I was steered away from the 220d and was offered a super deal on another 250.
After 3 months of ownership with the 320d m sport I am very pleased but looking at the two cars sise by side I think the lexus IS wins hands down but once again if only they could have got it right first time as a manufacture with their 220d - better mpg - engine - auto -etc etc. hmmm back to the drawing board

cheers
swager

This 220d bashing in here has gone too far, IMHO. To say that the mileage isn't the best in its class, is okay. To say that the 250 auto is much smoother, is okay. To say that automatic transmission would complement the diesel, is okay. To say that the car is a lemon that has nothing going for it, is most definitely not okay. I have driven the Audis, BMW's and Mercs many times, and none of these have a 4-cylinder diesel pulling as smoothly as my Lexus (the new BMW 320d 177 hp might, but that one I haven't tried yet). When the Lex was brand new, the flat spot at the bottom end was worse than with the rivals, but now with 10k+ on the clock, it's practically unnoticeable. Comparing the 220d to 250 auto, the 250 wins in just about every aspect except for the cost (both purchasing and owning). Comparing the 220d to the 4-cylinder diesels from Audi, BMW and Merc, I would say the 220d wins in smoothness and power, but loses in mileage.

If your 220d is as bad as some of you guys are saying, you have every right to be mad at your dealer: Your car is not running right. It could be and should be a real pleasure to drive, believe me. But please, try to stay objective. There are good 220d's out there. What exactly is causing this huge variation in opinions, is beyond me.

Are you still there Harrydavy, or did they sort it?

Still here! Got the car back Tuesday afternoon.
Lexus Leicester say the fault was with a faulty 5th jet and in fairness the car is running much better. I'm still compiling info for an acurate mpg but it's much smoother.

Throughout all of my various issues and complaints I can not fault Lexus Leicester. All dealers have their hands tied and reading the various threads it seems Lexus GB are hiding behind them. They keep releasing various updates (I think I have had 5!) which never means admitting that there is a fault.

I/Lexus Leicester are chasing Lexus GB to cover the balance of my pcp with a warranty but am awaiting to hear.

my words...

....I would say go try the new 320d...it is one smooth, quiet car! The engine is a Gem! The rest of it isn't! It's not good value...but the engine is better and the ar is quieter!!

thats good to hear,cos i just bought one today-a 320dM-sport coupe that is arriving jan20th.Loved the car,loved the coupe looks and its got a nice interior.i agree about the engine,but cant comment on the rest cos ive never experienced a newish E90 style bmw yet,so i dont know if quality has impoved.Once its here-youre welcome to come and have a drive of it and see what you think.

Rsarin - good choice!!

I've driven both the 320d saloon (Auto) and the 320i Ci Sport Manual coupe. I have been so close to changing the Lexus for a 320i MSport Auto - which is why I have been quiet of late (!)....The build quality is not as bad as some might have you believe - and given my experience of the IS220d, it is about the same. It is still not quite at Audi standards from my experience...and the new A4 is very convincing on paper...

A 320i will give you 40-45mpg consistently on a mixed driving style, and I reckon 50+ at regular motorway speeds is absolutely possible.

The 2.0i 170bhp BMW Petrol engine is better value for money than the 2.0d (IMHO) but the 2.0d engine is very economical - and with 177bhp and more torque than the Lexus engine, it is very fast in the mid range and very economical - at least 10-15%+ on the Lexus. It somehow feels "light" compared to the Lexus which feels heavy. Not just the car - but the drive train too....People rave about the BMW gearchange, but I find the throw is a little long...my IS220d on the other hand is meaty and very precise - thogh I have driven a couple of petrol and diesel IS's which have been as notchy as the Journo's have stated...

The only problem is that by the time you add Leather, 6CD, decent HiFi, Bluetooth and Satnav the price of a BMW can become astromically intergallactic...that's where the Lexus just wins...

When you consider though that for just over £26k OTR, you can get a Red 320i Msport Auto, Proff Nav, Voice Command, Bluetooth, 6CD, Tints and Xenon's it is not too bad....the list price is over £30k! Things like Heated seats are only any good if you have leather (as are ventilated seats) and electric seats without memory are plain slow and a waste of time...

Every time I get bored of the Lexus (or hear new squeaks and rattles) I start pondering the future. The more I look at other cars and realise how much money the Lexus has lost, the more I remain convinced that the IS has to stay for another 4 years...the Lexus is seriously good VFM!

nice read!!We have never really been interested in a diesel car before and when we went to the bmw dealership,we were originally looking for a mini.Somehow my Mrs started looking at the M coupe and said she really liked it,so naturally i kept quiet,knowing that i came there for a completely different type of vehicle,different budget also.Anyways as she was so keane we decided to take their demo car for a spin,and i must say i was absolutely blown away.Havent driven a diesel for absolutely ages but realised straight away that this was actually an amazing drive.I mean so much torque and it did feel meaty when pressing on(gear changes seemed fine too),in petrol cars you dont get that same feeling(it felt stonger lower down than my M3 does).Sorry if youve heard it all before,but i was absolutely shocked.The car worked out at £33k all in,with alot of options ticked and i must say i was more keane to purchase after the test drive.I have been a passenger in the is220d when lexus were dropping me back at work once and that too felt great-but because ive heard so many complaints about it on here-i tried to avoid it,also hoping the bmw will hold its value better than the Lexus(we have lost alot of money on numerous Lexii),especially if we want rid in a year or two.I dont know much about diesels as you have probably gathered-but this car seemed awesome and i cant believe i didnt notice what all the fuss was about sooner.Ill take some pics and vids once its here,although its wierd got a call from the dealer today,asking if we want it delivered before crimbo-which i thought was wierd-but thats another story.cheers for the write up,ill no doubt be following the 220d threads more now that im a diesel car driver.BTW the build quality in my E46 M3 is attrocious and its embarassing having people in the car-squeaks from any,every part of trim,i do hope the new cars are better.

with regards to JAMBO'S earlier comment about the seat problem, i have recently had my drivers seat replaced i took around 3 visits to the dealer forthem to try to fix the squeek and they finally admitted that this isnt the first time this problem has been reported, i have had the new seat around 4 weeks and the same problem has started on the new one, i cant be bothered taking it back

There is a fix for the squeaky seat, just needs removing and taking some little plastic pins * think that's what they are called ) out. Suprised the dealer doesn't know

the squeek doesnt come from the mounting points its actually from inside i was told the only fix is a new seat which i had

More torque than which Lexus engine? 220d has 400 Nm and the BMW's 2.0d only 350 Nm. Can't comment on the actual feeling of torque though, since I still haven't managed to make the effort to go for a spin with the Bavarian. I know I should. Not that I'm thinking of swapping, but rather just to keep up with the field.

Current tank AVG: 5,9 litres -> 47,9 MPG. Me happy. Could I get 53-55 MPG with BMW? Frankly, I don't care that much. The price difference (Lexus vs. BMW) is huge with all the extras I want, and with that pile of money I can buy a lot of fuel.

The reason it's started again is because the squeek is not in the seat. There are a couple of locating pins used during fitting the seat at the time of manufacture and these cause all manner of strange squeeks from the seat. They are not needed and there is a service bulletin to cover the removal of them by the dealerships. It takes about 45 mins and completely cures the problem - I've had 2 squeeking and rattling driver's seats fixed in this manner. Your dealership need to check their factory bulletins more often.

still getting under 30mpg ........ can't belive figures in the 40's ,however mines and early car so must be the earlier 22d's with issues , and tbh its wearing me down .

its just really awful.

my 220d is 12/2005

That's what I thought but the pins fixed mine.

When I say more torque, I should have said more torque over a longer rev band...the Lexus torque delivery is higher but sudden and narrow - the BMW has a slight flatspot too, but then the surge is very good over a longer period of the rev's. That plus the auto box means that the car just keeps wanting to go faster and faster. Pure effortless. That is what the 220d misses.

It's also the reason why the BMW is so much quicker when you start off. Even the 163bhp engine 320d was faster in a straight line - the 177 320d version is much quicker and with the Auto it is, I have to say, near perfect!

Like you sau Finlex, it's just too expensive when you add the options...which is why the Lexus still sits on my drive...for now!

The fuel economy problem is strange. Looks like Matus and Finlex in Europe get better economy than we do in UK. Is it something to do with speed limits, driving conditions, or software?

PS - the squeaky seat on mine was down to the anchors not being fastened tight enough...no plastic lugs could be found anywhere. They were removed in the factory on mine.

haven't driven the latest 320d 177hp but the 163hp.
beemer started to pull from 1500rpm. Redline was 4800rpm or 5000rpm.
My IS pulls from 1500rpm and redline is 5200rpm - achievable on 2nd what means app 95kph (60mph). Beemer must be on 3rd already in this speed.

What I want to say is that you are right what you are saying, but I would say the story is a bit different.
The truth is that beemer has better box in terms of ratios. It is not as short as is220d sport and not as long as standard IS220d and the ratios between the gears are better calculated - I don't like on IS the huge ratio difference between 2nd and 3rd, while 4th and 5th are too close in my eyes and 6th is too far again.
IS220d sport has this same problem, because there is no difference in gear ratios, just the final ratio is different. This is much better done in beemer.

We have to understand that the torque - the Nm number is very specific number as the torque is being converted through the box. This means: the 400Nm number is the torque on the engine and this is not fair when comparing two cars with two different ratios in gearboxes.

For example, lets say that on IS220d (standard) has the 4th gear the ratio 1:1, what means that the torque at 2000rpm is 400Nm on the wheels. (1:1 - no conversion) - we ignore the powertrain losses.
320d has slightly shorter box, lets say 15% shorter than IS220d, what means that the ratio is 1:1,15. This means that the torque at 2000rpm is not 350Nm but 350x 1,15 = 402Nm.
And this is why you feel that the torque is spread wider/it is stronger on 320d. 320d has simply shorter box. Long gears on IS220d kill the torque.
Plus - 320d has less weight to move.

And what more - don't know about the 177hp version, but the 163hp is almost lag-free even in low revs. To have no lag in IS220d you have to be over 2500rpm.

I said many times - 320d has better engine/box than IS220d but this is where it ends. The rest of package wins in IS220d.



well in Slovakia the limits are 60kph in the urban, 90kph extra urban and 130kph on higways, however the police tolerates up to +10kph, so we drive 70/100/140kph.

I reckon that it has to do something with the diesel quality. I don't know much owners of IS220d in here (3 ) but including me we have never had something like EGR or injector problems while here it looks like almost everyone had.

You need to find out how people are getting their MPG figures.

I discovered that my trip computer produces vastly optomistic figures

My trip computer reports 27mpg, while I'm actually getting 21mpg. Over 30% out (IS250)

If anyone is quoting mpg from the trip computer, I think you can ignore them if my experience is anything to go by.

Here's the TSIB with the Lexus recommended fix....
http://is350.grantham-international.com/ts...eak%20Noise.pdf

I have real figures in my case. If you take a look on www.spritmonitor.de, you can even see the difference between the TC and the reality (btw the difference is minimal)

I have every litre and every klm recorded on a spreadsheet and it is accurate. 31,000 klms done now.

I always calculate the consumption when filling up the tank. My experience is that the computer is very accurate.

Hi All,

I've been off work for almost five months with a serious back injury, the IS220d has not been driven and has been standing still until a few days ago. Inevitably the battery was flat and I was got going by the RAC. I then took it on a round 50 mile run and have to say I was impressed, performance was great and not at all sluggish - in fact I was taken by surprise on a couple of corners, easy to forget how fast you are going Economy wise it is too early to say as I need a much longer run, prior to my injury I was getting low-mid forties on a 220 mile run averaging about 70 mph most of the way, oh, and the car has done 26,500 miles. I honestly expected it be really rough after standing for so long so was quite pleased to find that wasn't the case at all.

I think it may be the case with any car forum that people with problems migrate to it, or at least say more about them than someone that hasn't had any problems with the car at all. There must be many happy owners out there that perhaps do not even think about looking for a forum at all!

Apart from a minor dash rattle on the car when I bought it with 6K on the clock (which was fixed promptly) there has not been any other problems at all. It has just been in for 30K service and has been fine between, and not need any oil added either.

I looked at other marques when I was looking to replace my last car and was unimpressed by the level of kit as standard, and found that getting near to the same on the Lexus added massive amounts to the list price. Admittedely some of the stuff on the SE-L I do not use much, but it still represents superb value for money in my opinion, particularliy with the MM option. When it is time to replace again, I think I will be hard pressed to find something else and will probably go Lexus again, unless my business goes as well as I think it will, and then I will be looking at something completely different. I really fancy a AM V8 Vantage, and the IS-F is a tempting choice too! That will be another V8 to add to the stable (already have a Porsche 928S4).

I have emailed Auto Express following the article on the other thread and asked the editor to look at this message board.
Perhaps some media attention will make Lexus take some more effective action?!?!?!?