Was pulled by Mr Plod tonight, claiming i had no Insurance, but sorted that out at last, (Its great that computer system of theirs, honest)

Anyway he gave me a fixed penalty for my plates illegal spacing. Basically i have it spaced to say 5TAV rather than 5 TAV, no italics, dodgy writing or anything but he still didnt like it.

I've replaced my rear number plate for a legal one i already had but i've a dilemma for the front.
my plate currently looks like this:

[img]http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h204/Sparkystav/IntercooleropenSmall.jpg[/img]

So i'm gonna change it for a legally spaced one but if i do that with a maker and postcode underneath can i still have it that size?

The letters and spaces are all legal, with a legal 13mm border around the edge. Will that do?
If not can i legally have it made of something flexible so i can put it at the side below the headlight? also does it have to be on a particular side?

Does anyone have any ideas of what to do with the plate, while keeping it seemingly legal?

Stav

My front plate is a Motorcycle size plate (rear) but white and square which is a legal size plate.
If you have it to one side (like the Alfa Romeo) then I am pretty sure it is to the left but I don't think it matters so long as it' s on the front

The Bike sized square plates in white must be legal, seen them on lots of modified Scooby's & Evos
on the left front bumper area but dunno how your reg would look.

I saw a [b]JDM relocator mount [/b]for a plate like that on E-Bay yesterday.Item number: 350020094847
I'd personally leave borders elmblems etc off, but you probably need to pop into your MOT station to
check re spacing etc, as my brother is a tester and has said they are cracking down this year.
Some places will pass, others will fail the exact same plate......

[quote name='sparkystav' post='505283' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:47 PM']Was pulled by Mr Plod tonight, claiming i had no Insurance, but sorted that out at last, (Its great that computer system of theirs, honest)

Anyway he gave me a fixed penalty for my plates illegal spacing. Basically i have it spaced to say 5TAV rather than 5 TAV, no italics, dodgy writing or anything but he still didnt like it.

I've replaced my rear number plate for a legal one i already had but i've a dilemma for the front.
my plate currently looks like this:

[img]http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h204/Sparkystav/IntercooleropenSmall.jpg[/img]

So i'm gonna change it for a legally spaced one but if i do that with a maker and postcode underneath can i still have it that size?

The letters and spaces are all legal, with a legal 13mm border around the edge. Will that do?
If not can i legally have it made of something flexible so i can put it at the side below the headlight? also does it have to be on a particular side?

Does anyone have any ideas of what to do with the plate, while keeping it seemingly legal?

Stav[/quote]
Must of been sad plod mate, was out to get you for what he could find

There must be more important things to be cracking down on than a number plate that isnt spaced quite correctly. If it can still be read and identified what is the problem?

its a personal gripe of mine this, i too have incorrect spacing and touch wood ive not been pulled for it.

imo if you have the spacing wrong but the font and sizing is the required type then i dont see why it should be a problem, if anything it would aid the police as it makes the car more recognisable and easier to read should they need to do so.

i do not agree with those plates that are of a font you cant see properly or where they have changed the number/letter to look like something else.

There is a crack down on number plates in the east and west midlands. Other areas to be covered in due course. Dvla are moaning that people are either buying legitimate plates and paying for the privilidge or buying cheap plates and adjusting them accordingly.
As nothing was done, they keep reminding forces so certain ones have acted.

I can't say too much on this unfortunately.

[quote name='Gord' post='505310' date='Jan 31 2008, 04:18 AM']Must of been sad plod mate, was out to get you for what he could find [/quote]

Unfortunatly Mr Plod are conducting a national campaign cracking down.

If you get caught they take pics, and send it to the DVLA.

Get caught again and you've got an expensive piece of plastic to hang on the wall cause they take it off you you.

Stav

[quote name='neal' post='505411' date='Jan 31 2008, 02:57 PM']There is a crack down on number plates in the east and west midlands. Other areas to be covered in due course. Dvla are moaning that people are either buying legitimate plates and paying for the privilidge or buying cheap plates and adjusting them accordingly.
As nothing was done, they keep reminding forces so certain ones have acted.

I can't say too much on this unfortunately.[/quote]
DVLA should stop selling them then stop them moaning, i dont think so, think of all the money thay make/making

[i] can i still have it that size? The letters and spaces are all legal, with a legal 13mm border around the edge. Will that do?[/i]

Yes you can as long as you have it spaced right and you just need 11mm minimum border. (top bottom and side)


[i]If not can i legally have it made of something flexible so i can put it at the side below the headlight? [/i]

the reflective material needs to meet the British Standard that sets out the physical characteristics on the number plate. This BS includes visibility, strength and reflectivity. I dont think there is a materal other than the norm that currently meets the required standard.

[i]also does it have to be on a particular side?[/i]
No, you can off set the plate either side.

[i]
Does anyone have any ideas of what to do with the plate, while keeping it seemingly legal?[/i]

This option is border line, but it mentions in the regs that the characher spacings need to be met, so my assumptions that that they need to be at least what they state. so you could space it M 5 TAV, meaning the 5 is spaced 33mm from the TAV, but the M could also be that far away. Might not be correct and might look much better than M5 TAV!.

Thanks Loggy,

I think thats what i'm gonna do surrounding size, just space it M5 TAV and get over it but have the plate the same small size but get the makers name and the silly code thing at the bottom to make it completely legal.

Stav

One more option is to carry some zip/cable ties and a legal plates in the car, have the zip ties all ready around the legal plates so you can apologies to the police, say you were just returning from an off road car show, and you forgot to replace the standard ones, then just place the legal plate over the illegal one and slide the cable ties over each end.

alternatively fix that strong velcro style stuff you can get to the plates and swap them over. Might not get you off, but with some smiling and being super apologetic and you might get away with a slap on the wrist.

[quote name='loggyboy' post='505467' date='Jan 31 2008, 05:25 PM']One more option is to carry some zip/cable ties and a legal plates in the car, have the zip ties all ready around the legal plates so you can apologies to the police, say you were just returning from an off road car show, and you forgot to replace the standard ones, then just place the legal plate over the illegal one and slide the cable ties over each end.

alternatively fix that strong velcro style stuff you can get to the plates and swap them over. Might not get you off, but with some smiling and being super apologetic and you might get away with a slap on the wrist.[/quote]


That wont help if you've been cautioned before!!......they will take your pride and joy away from you.

Once you are stopped (classed as an incident) officer will conduct a 10/25 (PNC check) The incident is logged as a reason for stop is requested. Pictures can also be taken but this for a third party and not retained by the force.

Doesn't really matter if 1st or 2nd offence relating to same offence code. Brownie points are a thing of the past but to some law is law and sections of PACE have to be adhered too. Seat belts, mobile phones and registration plates are the top 3 reasons for stop / fine at the moment re vehicle related issues.

[quote name='Scorps01' post='505498' date='Jan 31 2008, 07:45 PM']That wont help if you've been cautioned before!!......they will take your pride and joy away from you.[/quote]

The car or the plate? it was to be a very severe missrepresnetation for the DVLA to take the plate, in there own words:

[i]Vehicles with illegally displayed number plates may FAIL the MoT
test. The police can also issue fixed penalty fines for illegally displayed number plates. Offenders are liable to a MAXIMUM FINE of £1,000 and [b]in some cases [/b]the mark may be withdrawn.[/i]


[quote name='neal' post='505516' date='Jan 31 2008, 09:24 PM']Once you are stopped (classed as an incident) officer will conduct a 10/25 (PNC check) The incident is logged as a reason for stop is requested. Pictures can also be taken but this for a third party and not retained by the force.

Doesn't really matter if 1st or 2nd offence relating to same offence code. Brownie points are a thing of the past but to some law is law and sections of PACE have to be adhered too. Seat belts, mobile phones and registration plates are the top 3 reasons for stop / fine at the moment re vehicle related issues.[/quote]

Thats all true, but in the real world 90% coppers know that if they can read it, a camera can read then then there is no real problem.

[quote name='neal' post='505516' date='Jan 31 2008, 09:24 PM']Once you are stopped (classed as an incident) officer will conduct a 10/25 (PNC check) The incident is logged as a reason for stop is requested. Pictures can also be taken but this for a third party and not retained by the force.

Doesn't really matter if 1st or 2nd offence relating to same offence code. Brownie points are a thing of the past but to some law is law and sections of PACE have to be adhered too. Seat belts, mobile phones and registration plates are the top 3 reasons for stop / fine at the moment re vehicle related issues.[/quote]
Tints on windows must be No 4 then

sorry to hear bout this mate. i know the feeling. got done myself a few weeks back.

i now have legal spacing and type font (legal 3D effect), with a legal border, and my name at the bottom in small writing.

[quote name='swfcdan' post='505397' date='Jan 31 2008, 02:08 PM']its a personal gripe of mine this, i too have incorrect spacing and touch wood ive not been pulled for it.

imo if you have the spacing wrong but the font and sizing is the required type then i dont see why it should be a problem, if anything it would aid the police as it makes the car more recognisable and easier to read should they need to do so.

i do not agree with those plates that are of a font you cant see properly or where they have changed the number/letter to look like something else.[/quote]

couldn't agree more!!!!

its yet another money making machine!!!

this is my plate

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/bmx_matty/bits5drujrdacs4eff6q63gjg3_9.png[/img]

i've been told its illegal and an mot fail(not by the plod but by the local motor factor) because it doesn't have the place that made the plate on the bottom!!!!

crazy.

but i can actually cut the plate down so i have an 11mm surround?

[quote name='neal' post='505516' date='Jan 31 2008, 09:24 PM']Once you are stopped (classed as an incident) officer will conduct a 10/25 (PNC check) The incident is logged as a reason for stop is requested. Pictures can also be taken but this for a third party and not retained by the force.

Doesn't really matter if 1st or 2nd offence relating to same offence code. Brownie points are a thing of the past but to some law is law and sections of PACE have to be adhered too. Seat belts, mobile phones and registration plates are the top 3 reasons for stop / fine at the moment re vehicle related issues.[/quote]

He did take pictures of the plates, I think as proof if i challenged my Fixed penalty.

[quote name='loggyboy' post='505525' date='Jan 31 2008, 09:59 PM'][quote name='Scorps01' post='505498' date='Jan 31 2008, 07:45 PM']That wont help if you've been cautioned before!!......they will take your pride and joy away from you.[/quote]

The car or the plate? it was to be a very severe missrepresnetation for the DVLA to take the plate, in there own words:

[i]Vehicles with illegally displayed number plates may FAIL the MoT
test. The police can also issue fixed penalty fines for illegally displayed number plates. Offenders are liable to a MAXIMUM FINE of £1,000 and [b]in some cases [/b]the mark may be withdrawn.[/i]
[/quote]

The plate they can take away from you.
He said apparently the DVLA are cracking down, But the PD are prob just short on overtime.

But he told me once you've been done once, get done again and the DVLA will take the plate.

Anyway emailed a couple of companys trying to get a front plate made up with no excess acrylic but the BS number ate the bottom.

Stav

[quote name='sparkystav' post='505541' date='Jan 31 2008, 10:31 PM'][quote name='neal' post='505516' date='Jan 31 2008, 09:24 PM']Once you are stopped (classed as an incident) officer will conduct a 10/25 (PNC check) The incident is logged as a reason for stop is requested. Pictures can also be taken but this for a third party and not retained by the force.

Doesn't really matter if 1st or 2nd offence relating to same offence code. Brownie points are a thing of the past but to some law is law and sections of PACE have to be adhered too. Seat belts, mobile phones and registration plates are the top 3 reasons for stop / fine at the moment re vehicle related issues.[/quote]

He did take pictures of the plates, I think as proof if i challenged my Fixed penalty.

[quote name='loggyboy' post='505525' date='Jan 31 2008, 09:59 PM'][quote name='Scorps01' post='505498' date='Jan 31 2008, 07:45 PM']That wont help if you've been cautioned before!!......they will take your pride and joy away from you.[/quote]

The car or the plate? it was to be a very severe missrepresnetation for the DVLA to take the plate, in there own words:

[i]Vehicles with illegally displayed number plates may FAIL the MoT
test. The police can also issue fixed penalty fines for illegally displayed number plates. Offenders are liable to a MAXIMUM FINE of £1,000 and [b]in some cases [/b]the mark may be withdrawn.[/i]
[/quote]

The plate they can take away from you.
He said apparently the DVLA are cracking down, But the PD are prob just short on overtime.

But he told me once you've been done once, get done again and the DVLA will take the plate.

Anyway emailed a couple of companys trying to get a front plate made up with no excess acrylic but the BS number ate the bottom.

Stav
[/quote]
Different kettle of fish for tints. There is a legal percentage limit for front and rear. With regards to what your local motor factor stated, can i state for the record that it is the responsability of the motor factor to display there wording on front or rear plate. You CANNOT be done for this. It is mainly to backup that they have seen your V5 and driving licence for proof for replication for the plate(s).

Again its a 3 part crack down. Don't be confussed with parking tickets issued by officers, NOT TW.

So as long as i get the spacing right and everything else i dont need the makers name and BS number at the bottom?

Stav

Just to clarify Stav. If you do your bit regarding your plate (spacings, font etc) then whoever makes the plate will HAVE to either supply a BS number or the company name and telephone number.

As stated prior, you cannot be fined if there is missing plate information. The emphasis is on the retailer that issued the plates. Of course if your's has missing information and you state where purchased they should contact them and advise them to supply the relevant information. If it becoms a regular occurance then they should have the right to issue plates revoked / suspended and receive a fine.

And for further confirmation, postcodes etc MUST be sown and any personal names etc are not allowed as BS sets out the follwing:

The British Standard also requires that a number plate must be marked with the following information: -

l The British Standard Number (currently BS AU 145d)
l The name, trade mark, or other means of identification of the manufacturer or componentsupplier. (The company who actually make the number plate.)
[b]l The name and postcode of the supplying outlet[/b]. (The 'supplying outlet' is taken to mean acompany whose business consists wholly or partly of selling number plates.)
l A non-reflective border and the Euro-symbol with the national identification letters are optional additions.
[b]l There shall be no other markings or material contained on the number plate.[/b]

and the dvla states

l Number Plates must be easy to read and meet the British Standard.

seriously though guys, to be pulled for having ur name at the bottom is pretty unlikely....

most people, if not all, get done for illegal spacing/misrepresentation of letters.

you would have to be tail gated for anyone to see the small print.....

@stav, i have a mate who does plates and vinyls etc and he could most probably sort you one out with the BS number and reduced plate size.

pm me if u want further info mate.

i'm not back in the UK till tuesday but can give you his info.

Did thsee regulations only come into effect two or three years ago? So technically plates made before this is not affected, and with a private plate might one be able to claim that the plate was made before the BS standard was introduced?

These rules are ridiculous, the only reason they do it is so they can charge us so much for personal plates.........

The proof is the rules around US plates........

[quote name='Yaumeister' post='505747' date='Feb 1 2008, 04:28 PM']Did thsee regulations only come into effect two or three years ago? So technically plates made before this is not affected, and with a private plate might one be able to claim that the plate was made before the BS standard was introduced?[/quote]

The prob with that Yaumeister is that pre 2001 (when the regs came in) the letters had to be larger.

stav

My bad....i meant the plate can be withdrawn not the car, as some plates are expensive.

Pathetic, truely is.

Jamie

dont think you need to have a front plate its not the law i think will check

[quote name='waynejordan02' post='508486' date='Feb 8 2008, 06:32 PM']dont think you need to have a front plate its not the law i think will check[/quote]
am sure you need a front numberplate unless you in the U.S.A

You definately need to have a front number plate displayed on your vehicle. 100%

[quote name='waynejordan02' post='508486' date='Feb 8 2008, 06:32 PM']dont think you need to have a front plate its not the law i think will check[/quote]
PMSL - I so wish that was true

I know I'm known for doing things by the book, but I think all this is pathetic. Yes, pull a car over for a plate that's in some wierd and wonderful font, or that has been altered with insulating tape or plastic bits, but for a plate like M 5TAV, or indeed any other plate that's similar, WTF is the problem? Even if the plate was run through the computers, there's still only one plate like that so why do they care???? Why is it so important to have the place that made the plate on it too? Who's bothered? I'm sorry, but there's too much wrong in this country and world for any of this to be important enough for the Police to waste their (and your) time pulling you over. Period.

I've got to agree with you mate,

Thing was as well it was big crackdown on them in the county that week. There was at least 5 cars and a couple of bikes in the area. one jeep with a camera and then the rest pulling people over.

I wonder how much "real crime" happened that night and if better deployed officers would have helped?

In December last year I was coming home from work it was around 5.30p.m rush hour in Manchester. I was at a set of traffic lights waiting to turn right at a very busy junction. At the lights on the right where I am going to turn into is a Speed cop. As I make the right turn the police car puts on his blues and twos stops the rush hour traffic and does a sweeping U-turn at the junction. There is a car behind me and I see the cop car,lights flashing,sirens blaring coming up behind him. I assumed that he had got an emergency call. The car behind me pulls over to his left to let him pass. He is now behind me so I indicate left and do the same. He flashes his lights for me to pull over. It's now a narrow street so I pull on to the pavement he pulls in behind me.
He gets out of his car and comes up to me he says,"Do you know why I stopped you?" "I have no idea?" I said. "It's your number plate!" He asks me to get out of the car asks me if it is my car and do I have any I.D. I show him my licence He gets on his radio and asks for a PNC check and clear as day he speaks into his radio and say's Tango Seven Roger Yankee Bravo T7RYB sO NO PROBLEM READING THE PLATE!
He checks my car is taxed Insured and MOTed. He then gets out a ticket and starts filling it in (All the while there is an old lady looking out of her window at this) He tells me that it will be a £30 fixed penalty he takes 2 photgraphs of my car front and rear. This is now about 20 minutes in and I haven't said a word.
I have NOT said Dont you have better things to do.
I have NOT said That while you are dealing with me burglars,rapists etc are running loose
I have NOT said that if I had been stopped for NO insurance or NO tax or NO MOT and then you noticed the plate and that I had no regard for the road so I will do you for the plate as well I just said nothing.
He turned to me and said " You don't seem that worried?"
I said " I was just looking at that old lady in her house and thinking, If there were a gang of Yobs wrecking her garden throwing bricks at her door and abusing her would the blues and twos been on your car? Would you have got here as quickly as you got here to stop me? And when you did get here they would not even have run away they would have called you a shower of Pigs to your face. And because the little old lady could not "positively" identify "which" Yob was giving her abuse you would have asked them to move on Or at worse given them a caution!
I don't get the oportunity of a caution I just get Nicked! So in answer to your question officer I do not seem worried. You are just doing your job.
I got the £30 ticket and paid it.
Was I mad ... Not at the ticket 'cos my plate is not 100% but it is the correct size font and obviously clear what the number is, as he called it in no problem.
I was mad that at NO time did he wish to discuss the offence or want to caution me but just NICK me there and then. Yet scum roaming the streets they are more than willing to let them off. I have four friends who are retired police officers and they were disgusted.
First time in over 4 years I have had the plate on 2 cars that I have been stopped but there you go.
He was just doing his job! Same words were uttered by Nazi concentration guards at Nuremberg.

Unfortunately policing these days seems to be about numbers, not solving crime. And motorists are the easiest victims, as most are honest people and wont argue the toss.

Stav

[quote name='sparkystav' post='511749' date='Feb 17 2008, 07:25 PM']Unfortunately policing these days seems to be about numbers, not solving crime. And motorists are the easiest victims, as most are honest people and wont argue the toss.

Stav[/quote]

Stav, as I said in my post my friends in the police were all CID and they called the traffic cops "Jury Nobblers" It was because of some of the petty nickings traffic offences that "honest" people got pulled for and their attitude towards them that the public disliked them for it. Thats off other cops!

It boils down to the driver being an easy target, you drive around with your I.D in 3 inch high letters for every copper to see, no arguments, little chance of denying what was done, easy to show impressive figures at the AGM.

Give it 10 years and we'll be living like the film 'Demolition Man' told.

What you have to know is there is a different standard for imports, so all those with Altezza's and Aristo's can have a smaller plate on the front, IF there is a smaller sized recess to fit a smaller plate..

On my 626GT, I removed the number plate holder, and underneath is a small recess, so I put a small plate in it..

Std size numbers and letters though..

Got pulled, and bluffed it saying it was an import... (well, it was built in Japan)

They couldn't make their minds up, and didn't know the law, so let me go...

A few months later, got pulled again... this guy said he had been trying to catch me for weeks... (dog vans can't catch 626GT's) he then comes out with "don't bother giving me the import crap" so I get a ticket.. no fine, just get the plate changed, and verified by an MOT centre, then take the slip back to the cop shop..

So basically, genuine imports can have a small plate, if a std sized plate wont fit..

2 line "bike sized" plates are legal for front or rear.

A mate of mine got done for his plate.. just because the characters were domed carbon-fibre lookalike.. just seems very petty to me.... but probably because it brings in some more coinage.


John

[quote name='Einstein' post='512245' date='Feb 18 2008, 11:24 PM']What you have to know is there is a different standard for imports, so all those with Altezza's and Aristo's can have a smaller plate on the front, IF there is a smaller sized recess to fit a smaller plate..
-----------
A mate of mine got done for his plate.. just because the characters were domed carbon-fibre lookalike.. just seems very petty to me.... but probably because it brings in some more coinage.[/quote]

Imports need to be same as normal plates except for the following:
Character Height 64mm
Character Width 44mm
Character Stroke 10mm
Space between characters 10mm

Which only means the plates can be 15mm smaller in height (and slight narrower, but that depends on how many characters there are)

And its not just to do with the recess, its to do with the 'type approval'

The vehicle does not have European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval
AND
The vehicle's construction/design cannot accomodate standard size number plates

In other words, if you have the space to fit a normal one you have to.

If your mates carbon style domed letters match the font type and sizes, they are legal, there is nothing in the law that states the letters cant be 3d.

[quote]In other words, if you have the space to fit a normal one you have to.

If your mates carbon style domed letters match the font type and sizes, they are legal, there is nothing in the law that states the letters cant be 3d.[/quote]

Think that's what I said..

As far as my mate's plate goes... he still got done for it... but from what you say, he should have been able to appeal against it..


John