Booking the car in tomorrow and its not looking like a short visit .

1 O/S suspention knock/rattle , suspect either wishbone bushes or upper mount bush from the way its very noisy over mildly uneven road rather than bumps

2 Clutch judder , worse when hot and in heavy traffic .

3 fuel is still sub 30mpg usually did a run to manchester and back ... steady 75mph and cruise on with no traffic there or back and got a heady 36mpg
did a long run on the motorway yesterday after a fill and she got 33mpg ..... its bloody woefull agreed that heavy footedness makes it worse but a cruise at 75 should see well into the 40's

4 oil consumption , anyone else noticed this / 3 ltrs in 10k ,never had to top it at all in the first 20 between services ,but this time the oil indicator kept comming on , and when i followed the wife i noticed that it puffed a good dose of white smoke every time she pulled away from a junction ,and shes far from heavy footed turbo oil seals going?

5 really unhappy with the drivers seat wear , its sagging badly and i can feel a solid metal bar under my backside , ok i may be not exactly svelt but 14.5 stone ain't exactly huge.

6 seat coolers , they don't seem to pump out much in the way of cold air now , hardly feel anything on both front seats.

7 disapointed the drivers mat has worn a hole through , doubt they will replace under warrenty but it holed at 22k and a year old ? hardly long lasting for factory mats

8 now convinced that the low down power is woefull really finding pulling away isn't great and leaves me feeling vunerable , and tbh having the over 60's in nissan micras continually beat you at a set of lights without trying is becomming a pain .

In 20 years and a million and a half miles this is fast becomming the most disapointing car i have ever owned , it promised so much but appears to be delivering so little

Let's hope some, if not all, of these issues get resolved by your dealer otherwise you should contact Lexus GB as these issues should be covered by the warranty.

the clutch judder is a new clutch and flywheel,had mine done afew weeks ago.strange about the oil consumption mine has never needed topping up at all in 39k also been out today 80 mile round trip all aroads between 50and 60 mph returned 53mpg.good luck.

clutch judder comes and goes but worse when hot and in heavey traffic , did your gearchange become very notchy 2?

i unfortunately don't have faith that all the issues will be resolved as i have yet to see lexus admit and deal with the fuel economy issues , I have not had any of the interior rattles people moan about so maybe thats a bonus.

The list of faults on mine is OUTRAGEOUS now.

Was in the garage AGAIN for another 4 hours as I could not get it into 1st or second gear. Turns out the H gate had slipped an that was the problem.

Really getting cheesed off with it although I still thinks its a good car.

Brian

yes it did and particularly noticeable when hot.have you had the fifth injector recall done.

had a load of work done on the 5th injector etc ,was in for 4 days a while ago and i saw no noticible increase in economy ..... the last time it was in the service manager told me it was the way i drive it ...
that may be correct but when i drove my audi , bmw seat and merc in the same way they all gave over 40mpg . so i just don't buy it .

ask the dealer for a220 when yours goes in and do like for like comparisons then you will know.

i already have had a 220d ,and it was equally crap .... as are the ones my colleges drive who have all previously had no issues with "other" brands

fair enough.

It's really weird how the 220d polarises opinions. I've got 2 colleagues who have got 220ds and are so delighted with them that they have re-ordered exactly the same car (different colours) for their next lease.

Me too i am Happy with my IS220d had it now just over 4 weeks and i avg 43 MPG on the tank
compared to my IS200 sport which was avg about 25 i am well happy.

Just one question but dont bite me head off is the car yours or is it a Company lease car??
As when i used to have company cars, i was never happy with them, but then again all i paid was the Tax
on it, and it was gone in 2-3 years and another one was there for me. so i never really owned it to appreciate it.

Feel sorry for you.
I had mine for 67000miles, had all of the issues yuo've and it broke down twice as well!!!
Swopped to the German side now and wished I'd done it months ago!
There may be loads on the road, but it drives better and returns 48mpg no matter how I drive!!

Its a lease car ,but in my opinion should make no difference to the driving experience and i am not restricted to a small car list when i lease (i thing there were something like 150 cars to chose from in varying specs.

The reason you think 43mpg is good is your previous car (and belive me i thing 43 isn't bad either if i was getting that) however consider having a car that only does 5mpg more than your last petrol car and you may not be so happy .
being a lease car i do 30k a year in it so it needs to be right , trust me i put up with the challenges of the porsche and lotus i also drive but expect my daily driver to perform better.

prior to this i ran a merc 280cdi for 6 months

Fuel Consumption (Urban) 28 mpg
Fuel Consumption (ExtraUrban) 50.4 mpg
Fuel Consumption (Combined) 39.2 mpg
0-62mph 7.6 seconds
Top Speed 149 mph
Minimum Kerb Weight 1695 kg

it was used for the same journeys in and out of town ,was an auto and in 8k miles it averaged 34mpg which isn't far off the claimed combined figures.

compare those figures to the lexus
Fuel Consumption (Urban) 35.8 mpg
Fuel Consumption (ExtraUrban) 52.3 mpg
Fuel Consumption (Combined) 44.8 mpg
0-62mph 8.9 seconds
Top Speed 134 mph
Minimum Kerb Weight 1585 kg


so why do i constantly see tank averages below 30mpg week in week out and on a motorway cruise see 36mpg tops .... more usually 33mpg?

yes mine is an earlier 56 plate car and tbh i can't see me having another one after this, i'll go german again.

and it would be interesting to know what percentage of the 220d's have gone to the fleet market as i would hazzard a guess its alot more than the private ones and i'll also hazzard a guess there are alot of fleet managers also noting the economy of these and winceing

Has it had the injector change yet and latest ECU update ?
if not maybe they will do that on the Service

No i have never had a German car so i cannot comment on them
but when i did have company cars they were either TOYOTA or Vauxhall, and you did not even think about
MPG as they were all petrol not Diesel
i must admit it is strange how the drivers of the 220d are getting fuel calculations all over the place
ranging from 29-51 MPG
i usually do a 46mile round trip to work and back then just some dads taxi service on the nights for
my Lads and as i said the tank avg is allways over 41MPG
and the car AVG just keeps climbing now 39.4 as we speak anmd i have only had the car just over 3 weeks
and i dont drive like a miss daisy but i do use cruise control a lot on the motoway
lazy driver, but that is what it is for


regards
Matt

I use cruise on the motorway often , i have seen my tank average after a few days in london reading 23mpg ,its at its worst in traffic , and yes had all the injector and ecu stuff done previously.
before the merc for 2 years i had a leon cupra 150tdi and drove it more often than not in a manner that wasn't the best ,and it never dipped below 40mpg , even after all the central london jams , i am lucky in that my car choice is so wide i can be picky in what i have and belive me i really want the lexus to be stunning because its lovely looking and the most comfortable we tested (ok not quite the e class comfort but thats down to tyre profile)
I have really tried to get it to do 40mpg i have driven in a manor that would make miss daisy look like a holigan but to no avail..... and yes i care about running costs because bottom line in the business affects me .

its really really sad that they had the opertunity to compete with bmw but on the diesel front they have shut the door , things like the new passat cc if well speced look like a likely alternative but disapointed that thats only a 140bhp diesel.

i really should just accept it but unless people keep on moaning its never going to get any better.

maybe an email to whatcar should be fired off today as it all getting me down a bit .... lovely car lexus but terrible engine and worse gearbox ... you got it wrong .

and tbh ,your dealer attitude makes me thing they are frustrated too

I wrote to Autocar & Whatcar without success, so don't hold your breath. The best bet would be to put something together en-masse & contact watchdog or the Guardian

Watchdog might be the way to go
look at what they did with the Vauxhall handbrake issue
and even took on Microsoft with the XBOX 360 warranty issue
and now Microsoft honor a 3 year warranty to everyone out of the box
and how much money did they have to give back at £85 a time for repairs to there
faulty made unit.

where do you start with getting info together and people
to protest to watchdog
as People power is the way to go.

But strange thing is it is not everyone that has the problems
but i will agree that they list the extra urban at 55mpg combined.
I bet you might just get that on a run from junc 1 on the M6 up to Glasgow
with no traffic

I didn't see anything like that no matter how slow and steady I drove with a/c off etc etc when I had mine!!

Harv,

you're again making a bit of an overgeneralization when you say things like "its really really sad that they had the opertunity to compete with bmw but on the diesel front they have shut the door", "i really should just accept it but unless people keep on moaning its never going to get any better" and "lovely car lexus but terrible engine and worse gearbox ... you got it wrong".

We know you're not happy. Still, you shouldn't take the authorization to speak for all the 220d owners, as you seem to be doing. As far as my opinion goes, 220d does compete (quite succesfully) with BMW on the diesel front and there is nothing to really moan about. The engine is powerful, easy on the ears and, even today, cleaner than anything else in the class, while on the fuel economy front not quite the top pick. Gearbox isn't the best, especially for urban driving, but for a highway cruiser it's not that bad. And now to the actual point: I'm fully aware that these are my personal opinions, based on my personal experience. They do not represent the views of the whole community, which I ackowledge. I'm only telling my side of the tale. I just hope that everyone else would stick to doing the same and let all the readers of these forums to draw their own conclusions. We all have our own expectations, our own needs and our own feelings. Yours are as valuable as mine, and vice versa. What is a gem of a car for me, could very well be an absolute nightmare for someone else. That is why no one should try to speak for anyone but themselves.

My car has caused me no extra trouble. It makes me forget the cruel world outside when I'm driving it. It returns a tank average of about 48 MPG all the time and never, no matter what the conditions are, drops below 45 MPG on a run. The absolute worst I've had was the 31.4, that I got on the urban test I did a while ago against the IS 250 A. The traffic and the route on that test was the absolute worse case scenario in Finland. Okay, London is another thing, but still 23 MPG is a long way from 31.4. Urban driving is not the usage that the 220d is meant for, but I would say it should return 30 MPG or better NO MATTER WHAT.

So the question remains: why are some of you guys not getting similar mileage? My answer is, that there is no single answer. For some of you, it could be the way you drive. I know you say that it can't be that, that you've had good mileage in that or that other car or that you've already tried a different driving style with the 220d. Well, it's a different car and it needs a different driving style. If the first try don't succeed, try again. I had to do some serious alternations on my driving style and, in fact, habits. Not just the way I accelerate, shift gears etc, but much much more: route decisions, scheduling etc. I avoid cold starts, short trips, heavy traffic, altitude differencies and what not. It may sound funny, but once I've got accustomed to it, it doesn't bother me at all. I care enough for the running costs and, maybe in a lesser amount, the environment to make the effort. And in the end, it has paid off.

For some of you, it could be the different driving circumstances. I only do serious urban driving occasionally. It means, that if there is any kind of a learning element in the car somewhere, my urban driving isn't enough to make it more "aggressive". If you drive urban all the time, it might be different. Another thing is the DPF, which needs to burn the particles and soot from time to time. In extra-urban driving, the filter doesn't get as dirty in the first place, and the cleaning could very well be more efficient than in urban. If the filter is too full all the time, I'm sure it will affect the mileage.

What else? Sulphur content of fuel, different wheel sizes, all kinds of small modifications to the car, maybe even an actual fault in some of them... Combine enough of these factors together, and you could easily start from the 50+ MPG on a run and end up to, say, 33 MPG. The problems with Harv and co. are real, no doubt about it. But there are so many factors in this equation, that the ultimate solution is in all likelihood unreachable. Sure, you can put Lexus jump through a loop if you have the energy, but I would suggest you rather go find a better car for your needs. Harrydavy, for one, has done just that and I'm glad he is happy now. It does no good to anyone to keep badmouthing the 220d. It's not a terrible car through and through, it's just made for a specific kind of use and to meet specific kinds of needs. If it's terrible at something, then it's at being an all-rounder!

Well said finLex
As i said i am well impressed with mine
and i had an IS200 sport before this
but the fuel was killing me in it
i have not put any fuel in my 220 for nearly two weeks now and i have just under half a tank left
and that is using it for 5 days a week from Birmingham to coventry & back then dads taxi during the evening for my sons
to there various clubs

Matt

Ok . there appears to be a difference here . Finlex states what seems a valid argument but i belive the european cars are not the same .
Finlex what is your final drive ratio?
I have visited Finland many times and even Helsinki in rush hour is nothing traffic wise to compare to london outside it you just don't have the population to even have similar driving conditions and your geography is nothing like the same .
All that asside lets consider my driving experience and cars , diesels 205 Dturbo 40mpg + all day long Citreon Picasso 2.0hdi 40+mpg all day long vaxhaul cavalier 1.7 tdi 40+ mpg all day long seat leon fr150 tdi , this even averaged 20mpg after being used on a circuit for a day but was a 45+mpg car all the time mercedes 280 cdi 34mpg and a big auto ....... then the lexus 30mpg average , current reading after minimal urban driving 31.4 mpg ,thats just terrible if they didn't think it was an issue then they would not be trying to fix it IT is problem .
I bet if lexus lent me a 2.0 avensis diesel it would return well into the 40's
Ok you say harv is a driving saint he never has bad gas milage , wrong finlex , Subarau legacy 3.0 flat 6 spec b 17 mpg average , my 911sc 18mpg , but then the elise 34mpg our old 205 with 130k miles on the clock 28mpg
Harrydavy proves the point he switches brand and his mpg rises dramatically its the car ,and certain uk conditons + maybe uk fuel but whatever it is its definately isn't right.

and please please don't patronise by saying learn to drive it? i have driven over a million miles spent many many of those in one of the busiest cities in the world , had over 20 cars in that time and never had the complaints i have with the lexus , i am not being over critical but the engine and gearbox are poor in diesel form.
i have never seen so many posts on a diesel forum with referance to poor mpg anywhere?
even the rx400hybrid i was lent returned 30mpg

its a great car ..... nice spec ,nice looks but i belive they have failed the end user in terms of economy and i would be willing to meet a driver who gets over 40mpg and ask him to drive a route in mine and compare ..... maybe if he suddenly saw 32mpg they would think ,ok maybe there is a point here however why whenever i get a loan 220d do i jump in and see tank average of low 30's?
thats not me thats someone else driving it/.

Harv,

not everything I said was pointed at you. The driving style part, for one. I just wrote a general view on all the aspects of this infamous mileage problem with the 220d.

A few months back I wrote in a thread a short description of my driving style. A few of the responses were something like "I can't drive like that" or "That can't be the right way"! So I was getting the mileage these guys wanted, but they were telling me I was wrong?

Now, what you did in your last message was exactly what I've seen many people doing: telling references with other cars. As I said, they don't count. This is another car and another world. It needs to be driven in the right way for it, not in the right way for other cars. And if your driving style or conditions or whatever just don't work for the 220d, then I would suggest you move on, like Harrydavy did. The car is what it is, and if you just can't make it fit your needs, then you need another car. It is as simple as that.

What I still don't get is that the ones getting poor mileage seem to be telling me that there is nothing wrong with their driving, it's all in the car. I'm getting 48 MPG tank after tank and 50+ on a run, easy. If the car is the same, surely the difference must be in the driving? Okay, so not everyone can do their driving purely in extra-urban environments. As I said, urban driving is not the 220d's homefield. If you look at the gear ratios, this becomes very evident. The sport version (which I have), is better but still far from perfect.

The 31.4 I mentioned is, as said, the very worst case scenario in Finland. That is downtown Helsinki in the rush hour with the eternal (it seems) road constructions all around. The slowest leg, about a quarter-mile from the Parliament House to the Forum parking hall, took me 20 minutes. So, first gear most of the time, second at best and a lot of idling. The rest of the test run wasn't quite as bad, but third gear was a rare thing.

So I think it's fair to say that my car isn't that bad on fuel economy. Maybe some are not the same. But Lexus trying to fix it isn't real evidence that there is an actual problem with the car. This fuel economy issue is real because some Lexus' customers are struggling with it. I just think that if there was a concrete malfunction, they already would have come up with a solution. Therefore I think those still complaining are expecting the car to do something it just can't do. There are a lot of things the 220d can't do, because it is far from being perfect. But no-one in their right mind can say that anything else in the class is perfect, even the all-mighty BMW. There are different needs, there are different solutions. Each to their own, I say.

One more thing, harv. Somehow I'm getting the impression you think that every 220d in England is faulty. I don't share that view, not at all. I've seen many posts from English 220d owners reporting similar mileage to mine. In fact, on this forum most of the complaining has been down to just a handful of people. I really think that the car is the same everywhere, but the driving conditions are not. There just seems to be some environments especially in the big English cities that the 220d can't really cope with. The 220d seriously isn't an all-rounder, but that doesn't make it terrible, as such.

i agree that a car with the sport dif is better , i have driven a 22d sport and found the mpg better for my driving. however just so you know how bad it can be this morning i reset the av mpg and set off to see 3 clients in london. I did not eceed 2500rpm , never laboured the engine and had no traffic light Gp's traffic was quite heavy but not as bad as it had been what was todays av ?

20.4mpg ........ my driving ? urban conditions? sorry i don't buy it . what you will also notice is that the complains come from the drivers of the earlier 220d's

we have several on the fleet and they all perform with poor mpg and they all have different drivers in differing parts of the uk ...... there should be no special style to get good economy and if you belive this then i am afraid you are wrong , yes petrol to diesel there is a different way to drive .
the comparison of different cars of course is valid i have to pull you up on that because the whole reason any performance figures are quoted is for comparison , be it in terms of speed ,power ,acceleration or just economy.
My background is in engineering , i have been involved in motorsport for many years , and trust me i realise that there are trade off in producing a decent performance diesel engine .... lexus as yet cannot hold a torch to audi bmw ford or vauxhaul at the moment on engines no excuse.

We have similar background, but very different views on this matter. There most definitely is a special driving style for this car. I've driven a lot of diesels, VAG especially. Not a single one of them has been as delicate as the 220d. It has to driven between 1500 and 2000 rpm and full stops have to be avoided at all cost. Uphill driving, not to mention uphill accelerating, is poison. Keeping the momentum is essential, even more so than with any other car I've driven. That is extremely difficult in heavy urban traffic, which is why I don't recommend the 220d to anyone for that kind of use. But in extra-urban conditions, driving like I said, it returns proper mileage. Not top class, but not terrible either.

You seem to give the 220d absolutely no credit for having the cleanest diesel engine in the class even almost three years after its introduction. I know you can't see the results of that in everyday use, but the effect is there. Now, I accept that there really are tradeoffs in producing the cleanest diesel engine in the class. One of them is the effect it has on the mileage. Nothing comes for free, but still credit should be given where credit is due.


All things considered, I give the 220d engine a lot of credit. It's the cleanest in the class, it's very torque, it's way more refined than many other in the class (VAG pumpe-düse diesels especially), and at least for me not that uneconomical, either. It is a bit too fragile on economy, though, and combined with the weight and gearing of the 220d, that can cause a lot of worries for anyone trying to get stellar mileage out of it. It is not as good as BMW, Merc, VAG or even GM in some things, but none of them are as good as the Lexus in others. You win some, you lose some. I must disagree with you on whether or not Lexus is comparable with any other diesel car in the class. I think it most definitely is, even if it's not for everyone. The competition is tough, though, and age is starting to weigh down on the 220d. I really hope that Lexus will give the diesel engine a touchup soon, otherwise it will start to fade away as a competitive alternative.

thought i would say,about six weeks ago a friend of mine came over with his 320d the 163bhp and we were comparing notes.i sat in his car clicked onto his trip computer and it said 37mpg.also if you visit the audi forums there are many mixed veiws on fuel economy.

You have a point there - our A3s and A4s were only getting 37mpg as well. We've got a 2.0T A3 at the moment and the slight increase in fuel economy is more than compensated by the smoother petrol engine.

...

Finlex i am about to do something very british my friend ...... your background is in engineering is it ? you think what you have stated above is how a car should be driven or you accept that to get a decent economy then thats what you need to do ?

maybe this explains why most F1 teams are based in the UK because my friend you sound like the type of man who i wouldn't employ in an engineering company to sweep the floor .....

if you and anyone else agrees thats that the way i should drive my lexus (or any other car for that matter ) to return good fuel economy i pity you .

YOU ARE WRONG

thst way i think i could maybe get decent fuel economy out of a nice big bentley.......

its no wonder people think there isn't a problem if thats the driving style.

there are cars being used that return good economy the early ones don't , and ok i never stop and start .... err you don't understand england do you and i am sure you would quite simply be horrified by london traffic .

audi arn't

bmw arn't

ford arn't

and fwiw i went out in my neighbours 635d tonight to pop up the road with him ..... and we reste the trip and dis a normal driving stop start up and down hill run and it returned from cold 42mpg




TBH forget it .... you like your car and your happy driving in that fashion and i think you'll continue to enjoy it .
i'll never convince you its a poor diesel engine .
for those who get a good fuel economy from their diesel again thats great .

i don't


others don't


and not 1 single person who owns a diesel and has driven my car has said any different ... the economy is attrotious.

if anyone is in the south UK and wants to drive my car along say a 30 mile journey to show me how driving in a manor approved by the IAM and acheive 40+mpg feel free.

as i have said before .. i would love to see 37mpg ...... mixed driving this week has given a tank average over 300 miles of 29.9

Next fall at the "mondial de l'auto 2008" motorshow in Paris, Lexus should introduce either the new IS convertible or the new IS coupe.
I have read in a magazine something that has been rumored for a while : there won't be any IC220d, and the reason is that the IS220d has no future.

The IS220d will remain as the only attempt by Lexus to fit a diesel engine in a Lexus chassis. I tend to believe this. It will then put an end to the endless arguments and discussions you have and we have as well over here on what we already consider as being the only major mistake Lexus made.

I was discussing the other day with the manager of a major Lexus dealership in west France, and he told me "that car is crap". Even hough things have (slightly) improved, the IS220d has ruined in two years a part of the "pursuit of perfection spirit" it took 28 years to Lexus to build.

Today in France, Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz are more than happy, A4, Serie 3 and Class C sell like hotcakes.

Harv,

you completely missed my point. You don't have to drive the way I described, but if you don't then you shouldn't be complaining on the poor fuel economy, either. The fact is that the 220d will not give you good mileage, if you don't drive it like that. If you won't, then it's your fault. If you can't, then you have the wrong car. In short, go get another car and stop whining.

So the secret behind the British engineering is denying the facts? Good luck, my mate.

Are you serious? I usually get 21mpg out of my IS200 auto with predominantly urban driving, how is 20.4 even possible out of the diesel? Have you contacted Lexus GB? It sounds like there's something seriously wrong with that car..........


Think I need to agree with Harv here, I wouldn't be able to tolerate having to drive a car that required so much thought, driving would just be so much more tiring!

Agree on what? I'm not saying that it's a joy to drive the 220d in urban environment, but that is the way it needs to be driven to get proper mileage. If that sounds intolerable to you, then the 220d isn't the car for you, either. And that's just fine by me. But the 220d works for me. I'm able to not only tolerate, but enjoy driving it. That seems to be a crime around here, which I just don't get. If I don't find it uneconomical, tiring or troublesome, then it's okay to call me a moron and ignore everything I say? Quite frankly, that is what Harv seems to be doing.

Sorry mate, didn't mean to imply that at all, as long as you can still enjoy the car I've got no problem with it

Was just saying that if I had to work that hard, I wouldn't enjoy it at all so you're right, it isn't the car for me

Well said. I too hope that everyone could be happy with their car. And that includes Harv.

if it gave 40mpg i would love it ....... it would be fine and i would except it not as good as the oposition but not awfull

36mpg whilst doing 200 miles with the cruis on in a diesel was awful plain and simple .

you have a sport diff and belive me i have driven the sport , the ratio's are so much better and tbh i belive thats a major plus for you ....

but if you belive that the way you described is the way to acheive fuel economy then i belive you would see 70mpg out of a VAG car or bmw or even a mercedes .... thats the issue


i don't care about consumption what i do care about is seemingly por consumption compared to others in its class , today we have tested an RS4 cabriolet audi yes it did 20mpg in a semi urban drive , but look what we get for that compromise ,and its similar mpfg to everything else thats simlar that we have looked at .

my wife won't be doing more than a 30 mile motorway commute so we can suffer 25mpg ....

I tested a lot of cars the last time I was buying. Back then BMW 320d had the 163 hp diesel, Audi A4 the 140 hp, VW Passat the 170 hp, MB 200 CDI the 136 hp and Alfa 159 the 200 hp. Of these, BMW and Audi gave better fuel economy than the 220d, VW and MB about the same than Lexus, and Alfa was worse. I also tested both gearing for the 220d and found out that the sport version was, indeed, better.

Since then, I've refined my driving style a bit more to suit my car. I've tested some other cars, too. Audi A4 1.8 TFSI and IS 250 A are the last two. Audi returned 42 MPG in my typical A-road driving, where I usually get around 50 MPG with my car. IS 250 A returned 40.4 cruising at around 60, whereas my car gave 48.7 on the same exact route. Urban driving with 250 A showed 29.4 and my car, as mentioned, 31.4.

Those two are petrol, of course. The best I've got out of the Audi A4 1.9 TDI 130 hp I used to drive semi-regularly was around 55 MPG. Haven't tested the new common-rail Audi 2.0 TDI or the 177 hp BMW, but what I've read about them in the tests, I would expect those to give me 50+ tank averages and 55+ on a run. No more, no less. Been planning to give these a go for a while now, but just don't seem to get to it.

Quite clearly, there are issues with the Diesel.

I chose the petrol over the diesel because I could see no advantage. One of my main clients has 1000+ cars in their fleet. (Not all Lex obviously). Well over 80% of the Lexus diesel drivers complain. (I know because I wrote the part of the intranet that tracks transport issues) The figures show it all too. You can see it on paper. It isn't coincidence that all those drivers have the same habits and showing the same issues time after time.

We have to compare cars because we have the option of driving/buying those cars. There has to be a degree of generality. whether it is conditions, driving style, etc. the diesel seems to give the lowest return unless you dramatically try to make it better and even then it hardly compares - you might be lucky and get a bit close.

You are right - there are many factors. Many factors that are more specific to the IS. Others cope fine with these other factors.

Allowing for its shortfalls does not make it good. Different cars have different driving styles but this is too much to accommodate.

I'm pleased it fits in with some peoples driving style and that is great. I really am glad about that. On the whole though, you have to agree that there are some fundamental issues or it wouldn't be receiving so much negative press.

People will badmouth if they don't get what they have been told they are buying. That seems perfectly justified to me. I'm glad I never bought one to be honest and I've had 3 IS's now so you can't suspect I'm not pro Lexus. Cars are the one area that people allow more fluctuation of the published figures too! This isn't a lower class car either.

Geoffers,

That is exactly what I'm saying. The 220d can be competitive on fuel economy, when the conditions are right. When they are not, the mileage drops more violently than with most other diesels. I would say a lot of these less-than-optimal conditions are typical to urban environment. For extra-urban the 220d is fine, for urban it's not.

That might very well be the reason why I haven't heard a single complaint on fuel economy from a Finnish 220d driver. Extra-urban we have a lot, urban not that much. Lexus IS 220d, the expert's choice for rural driving!

Finlex i am sorry if you think i have been overly agressive in my replys but this really did need to be said and you gave no argument that would stand up for the lexus being a good diesel (if anything you also confirmed how bad it is ) and you don't have the longer standar diff ratio which makes it worse.
Lexus have totally screwed up ,the cars DO NOT give the stated figures and never will its fundementally flawed , its a real real shame because i agree its a lovely car to look at ,the handling is nice (if slightly harsh over some surfaces) and it has r the most comfortable seats in its class by a big margin ..
I truely belive if lexus went back , forgot euro 5 , removed the 5th injector system remapped the engine and changed the gearbox and final drive ratio's they would have a 50mpg car that sold well .
They i can't go back , and thats why they will ditch the diesel they have hurt their brand more than they would ever have wanted to and this issn't the time they should have been doing that , stateside they are fine there is no diesel and thats a big market for them so lets hope they don't suffer to much ,
They are the only japanese car maker who has got close to a european feel inside their car as they all strive to be "german" just ask citreon their latest ads confirm this .

But i think lexus should be man enough to appologise and say we got it wrong , cause the happy users of this diesel are buy far in the minority ... great car ... very poor engine ... andthats VERY poor ... not just disapointing.

Harv,

if you could look at things from even a slightly more objective perspective, you would see that there is basically just one flaw in the 220d engine: it doesn't return good mileage in heavy urban traffic. Why, I say WHY, can you not see that this isn't enough to make it a complete failure? When you say that the engine is a total lemon, you're basically saying that I and everyone else who bought one have screwed up. I scanned the field, made a thorough comparison, decided on the 220d and so far have not had any second thoughts. When you say that the 220d is a failure, you're also saying that my car is terrible and that I shouldn't be happy with it. When you keep repeating it over and over again, whilst I keep telling you that I really am happy with it, you're basically telling me that you know better than me. Can you not see how frustrating that is? It's not good for you, fine, but try to accept that it is good for me and many others, I'm sure.

It is ludicrous to think that any car manufacturer would go back to Euro 4 limits just to get better mileage. The diesel particulates and nitrogen oxides are very dangerous emissions. Euro 5 is a given, every manufacturer is going there and that's the way it should be.

You not being happy with your car isn't enough to convince me of any serious damage to the Lexus brand. Lexus has gotten a lot of new customers with the 220d and I know for a fact that many of them are very happy with their car. I can see you feel let down, but you really should try to keep yourself from making too coarse conclusions. Please accept that there are many perfectly happy 220d owners who don't share your visions of disaster.

One more thing. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the official fuel consumption figures are not manufacturers' claims. They are the results of an official, neutral test cycle. The 220d as well as every other car out there, really do return the official figures when driven in the way the official test is driven. The problem is that absolutely no one, not even me with my "impossible, unrealistic driving style", can drive like that. This is a serious problem with the test, not with the cars or manufacturers. Lexus is not alone in this and in my experience not even the worst off.

Finlex ... when will you understand that you have a totally diferent gearing setup .... search the forum the lhd spec cars are not the same ,and again you have a sport anyway so you have totally different geaing

And what part of a 400 mile round trip using cruise control with no traffic at 75mph returning 36mpg don't you understand .... that was motorway .. no traffic at all didn't stop going up ,or back .... 36mpg .... is useless , did you not see the post above , fleet users reported 80% of drivers were unhappy with fuel economy . Do you not understand that thats alot of drivers who have issues , belive what you want but a uk non sport spec car in most situations is awful compared to it direct rivals .

Its not me .... its not jut a few people , its a large percentage of users .... and tell me this ... why does every courtesey car i get in have a tank average of 30 maybe 32 mpg ?

why?


maybe because thats what they do , and thats **** .

if lexus had said it would do 32 and thats what the competition got then no issue , but they don't and lexus havn't .... but you'll never understand whats been pointed out to you by various people on this thread and those who have simply given up saying it.

i am glad you get good economy and i am glad you enjoy your car .... trust me if on a run mine did 40+ mpg i would be happy too

harv,i feel sure that your car has some problems because last summer i drove back from st.ives at 90mph to leicester and avg just over 40 mpg.i beleive that the low mpg on the loan cars could be down to the high urban useage coupled with the fact that most people cane the loan car.why not ask the dealer to loan you a car for a week for a true comparison.

the service manager said mines fine ..... i do not belive him.

then tell the dealer that you will have it inspected by a motor engineer preferably a fuel injection specialist.

I understand perfectly well that I have a different gearing than yours. You don't seem to understand that the engine is the same! How many times in this thread alone have you said that the engine is an utter failure? Are you now saying that it's not the engine, but the standard gearing? Because on that I could just about agree with you.

Each and every 220d that I've driven (there are five) have had terrible tank averages on the BC when I've started driving them. Each have returned something entirely different when driven the way I drive. That goes to prove my point: the fuel economy of the 220d is very vulnerable to differencies in driving style. Not a good trait, but it doesn't bother me since I can get the mileage I expected. By the way: my expectations were not based on the official figures, because I know they are BS. Just look at the figures of the standard 220d and the Sport and you'll see my point.

I have not completely ruled out differencies between UK spec and other 220d's. I just don't know why there would be any. It doesn't fit in the Toyota/Lexus philosophy of using the same parts and technology where ever it's possible. And there are many UK owners who are reporting mileage similar to mine.

Earlier cars vs. later ones... Could be. Slight improvements on the production line are well in line with the manufacturer's philosophy. Much more likely than the geographic modifications theory.

Why do you say that I don't understand what has been pointed out to me? Have I said that there can't be economy related issues with 220d owners? I haven't and there are. There are also those like myself, who report reasonable figures. The reason for this split in opinions is what the members of this community have been relentlessly trying to find out. Theories that have been suggested there are plenty. I've already posted at least half a dozen of them in this thread. You haven't commented on these at all, which raises the question: Are you more interested in bashing the 220d than in trying to find out the reason for your troubles?

it is the engine , and the gearing combined .... its quite simple

drive like miss daisy and you will see terrible economy

drive like a normal driver and you'll see something thats laughable .

there isn't a fix lexus can come up with so they'll drop the model and when they do it will be for no other reason than it being a money sapping failure .

And yes i am and will continue to bash the 220d till someone gives me one that i can drive normally and see 40+ mpg .....

you do and your happy .

the large majority of 220d drivers don't i am not willing to drive like you , that does not make me wrong for not adjusting to drive slower than my gran what it actually does is make the engine terrible !!!!

I guess that answers my question... I don't understand your motive, but maybe I don't need to. Let's just leave it with that.

I regularly get 50+ MPG driving in what is now my very normal driving style. That is about 10 percent less than I would with the very best diesels in the class. Not being the top pick for everything is not the same as being a failure, in my book.

I'll believe that Lexus is dropping diesels when I see it. It is a huge market segment, one that I can't believe they could afford to drop. Toyota is not going to, that's for sure, and when there are diesel engines being developed in-house, there is no sense in not using them for the Lexus line-up as well.

what i am trying to get across to you is that i have had many cars that have had "special" driving styles to get best from them , they all are used for circuit racing , and MPG has never been high on their feature list .... most people would say the handling was twitchy and dangerous , and would struggle to see the best from them .
They are built to a purpose

However your average mass market fleet diesel engine should be able to nowadays produce 40mpg driven by any monkey .

and yes i would accept 10% down on the market leaders but have a search and even those claiming good mpg are saying it 38 to 39 on a run .... still way off 10% down.


my motive is clear .. for lexus to look and acknowlage the issues and try and have dialogue with there customers to resolve it .