I am looking to buy an IS 220d but was wondering if a new model or facelift was coming out any time soon. As it is 3years+ old. Any idea cheers

Pretty unlikely...I believe Lexus have given up on the diesel to concentrate on hybrid technology after the 220D disaster.

according to the info, IS will have some minor adjustments like changed front grille, new mirrors and new back fender
I am also told that there will be some price adjustment (ie. higher price) but I do not know if this is only for my market or overall price change

this is supposed to happen before year end, possibly from september

on lexus US site they have more info about it

What do you mean 220d disaster!

It's a mongrel...nowhere near best in its class, and was introduced on in Europe for obvious reasons (fleet market/tax etc). Not the type of car Lexus is normally associated with. think they've learnt their lesson though and will not be following it up. Hate it when my local dealership provide one as a courtesy car.

So its the 250 auto all day long for you then! What is the actual fuel economy of the standard automatic. My manual car at the moment does 29mpg. Thats about 18 mile per day to and from work non motorway, all roads.

I've heard some very credible rumours about the facelift. Deliveries should start in October. The diesel will remain. Besides the minor optical changes, there will be some modifications on the suspension, steering and the manual gearbox. The latter is the big news, I think.

Not the type of car Lexus is normally associated with? Would have to agree with you on that, since it is their first diesel...

My info is there will be NO updated 220d. It's a lemon and Lexus are washing their hands of it to concentrate on building cars they know a thing or two about. BMW, Audi, Mecedes and Volvo will have the diesel fleet market to fight over. It may get facelifts to the bodywork but the engine will not evolve further in the 220d.

....and their last

There's something very peculiar in the way some members of this community are so eager to crucify the 220d...

It's a member open forum not a fan club. If people feel the 220D is second rate compared to the BMW, Audi and even the Alfa Romeo diesel models then they are entitled to say so. IMHO Lexus should never have produced it and have compromised their reputation for quality in doing so.
While we're at it I don't think the 250 has the same kudos of the 200/300 first generation, or design and build quality, except in the engine and auto gearbox department where it's a vast improvement. The 'toys' are available on most makes now so I don't consider them in the comparison.

Where did I say people aren't entitled to say what they feel? What I said was that there's something peculiar in the way the 220d is treated here. It's not at all in line with my experience and those reported by the real life 220d owners I've discussed with.

Never driven a first gen IS, but what I've read about it, a far inferior car to the 2nd gen. Design, in particular, was really awkward, whereas the 2nd gen is truly a beautiful car.

And while we're still at it: I didn't like the 250 A engine/gearbox combo that much. Every time I wanted it to go, it didn't. The only way to get it really moving is by kickdown, and quite frankly the lag there is much worse than the turbo lag in the 220d. Heavy urban traffic is where the 250 A is better. Anywhere else it isn't, IMHO.

You're entitled to an opinion no matter how misguided.

Thanks, you too!

What an absolute pile of rubbish. The IS250 is streets ahead of the 220d. More lag in a V6 petrol than a 4 cylinder turbodiesel ? What are you on ? Did you drive it for 3 minutes and form that opinion ? Yes if you are used to driving a diesel then a petrol won't seem to go unless you throttle it a bit. You need to adapt your driving.

Calm down. I am entitled to my opinion, right? The lag I'm talking about is not from the engine, but from the gearbox. With my 220d I'm already on the right gear, whereas the auto box needs to downshift. The time between the moment I put my foot down and the moment the car starts to really accelerate is shorter with the diesel. Sure, you can use the paddles but seriously, no-one really does that in day-to-day driving.

I've driven the 250 Auto four times. A good dozen of hours, total.

I don't have to adapt my driving. I don't own a 250 Auto and don't intend to. However, I did adapt my driving to the 220d. This is the first diesel I've had. Been driving petrol cars all my life, a few of them with an auto gearbox.

I use them all the time. Usually on country roads. Great fun.

Its getting a bit heated this and not something I have seen on this site.

In truth neither the IS220d or the IS250 is competative with the direct diesel or petrol rival from BMW/Audi/Mercedes, just read the write up's, so why buy one??

I have a 220d and its suits me for the type of driving and mileage I do having swapped from a 06 06 Merc 220Cdi, the reason I got one is it is nice to drive, looks better than the competition, is well built and is very well priced £16995 for IS220d 07 07 10K miles with 17" SE wheels and metallic

My wife has a new 325d M sport and it wipes the floor with the IS in some/most ways but is no where near the long distance relaxed driver the IS is so each to their own

I have driven the IS200, a friend had a Y reg one at the same time as I had a Y reg 325i Sport....guess what...driving back to back the Lexus could not hold a light to the BM, but which one won all the awards for customer satisfaction and reliabilty and had the strongest following!

You'll find on this post all we know so far regarding the 2009 IS250/220d:

US Clublexus.com forum

Being a member of the LOC and a daily reader of the forum I can understand and sympathise with the disappointment the 220d has been to some of our members.
In my case I have had my 220 since August 07 only done 5600 miles and have not (touch wood) experienced the problems others have had, with rattles and poor MPG. This is my first Lexus and diesel and it has been said you do adapt to the small change in driving technique to cope with the difference from a petrol engine and the gearing ratios. A present I average 41mpg commuting to work which is only 12 miles each way mainly on B roads and on my last longish run it returned 52mpg at which I was pleasantly surprised. I am one of the happy owners and enjoy and look forward to driving my car, but I will always contend that a good petrol engine is difficult to beat even which the technology built into the modern day diesel.
Merv

Agree Merv, mine is an 07 07 as said, engine is extremely quiet, doesn't sound like a diesel at all, current average having done 3000 miles is 39.8mpg with current tank at 40.6mpg, best i have had is 48.9mpg on a run of 80 miles with cruise steady driving. I am impressed with the iS220d and would have another but probably a Sport with toys, I think you can get a bargain. Don't have an issue with diesels having had them since 1999 and find them more flexible to drive on motoways.

Read the changes for 09 and they appear minor

Yep. I think any owner of a new generation IS should be happy as they are great cars and are very handsome indeed.
Far better than the ten a penny BMW 3 series which outnumber the Lexus by considerable amounts because What Car says they are better.
The issue I have is with LexFin saying "Heavy urban traffic is where the 250 A is better. Anywhere else it isn't, IMHO." which is total rubbish.

Ok it's his opinion but it's total tosh I'm afraid. My last car was a 5 cylinder 2.7 turbo diesel with similar 0-60 and far superior torque but my IS250 is miles quicker and refinement is another league.

It is my honest opinion. Has been all along, but hitherto I've kept it to myself. I really didn't mean to put down the 250 A, but since so many 250 A owners seem to give expert opinions on the 220d...

Both are great cars. Both have strengths and weaknesses. Both have competitors that are better in some ways and worse in others.

I don't feel the 220d second rate, but also I don't feel the need to oppose/reply to everyone who says it is...

And also, I don't have the need to bless the diesel each time when I see IS220d, but some people here behave like bull seeing red rag, when they see the D. And, then the discussion is:
1. I have 220d and I need help with tires. Answer: 220d is sh-it
2. I have 220d and I have problem with key fob. Answer: 220d is ****.
3. I have 220d and I have the problem with paint. Answer: 220d is ****.
4..........
5.........
6.........

what is this all about?
I haven't been on this forum for month or so, but nothing has changed...

Well I'm a real time owner having had mine since Feb and it is crap. Looks nice and arguably for me, the best looking small exec diesel on the market. They aren't exclusive anymore though. I see more IS220ds than I do BMW 320ds, Merc and A4s on the road. I do see more S40s than the IS series though. Most cars have the same gadgets as the Lexus so you can't argue that a Lexus has more toys anymore. The diesel engine is flawed in the IS220d. It works fine in the Toyota because it's in a lighter car. It's noisy outside the cab and slow off the mark with the terrible first gear. On average, the IS220d is on;y a good performer on mpg when compared to the opposition. The opposition get something really simple like split fold rear seats. A minor touch that would make life for me a whole lot easier, (until the dealer rings back with an improved offer for trade in against another marque!). The boot space is not good either and the list goes on.

Now I could have formed this opinion a lot earlier and with less cost to me if I'd be given a decent test drive opportunity. An hour, especially when a good half hour plus of it is spent getting out of the city congestion, is insufficient time to be able to work out all the quoibles of a car. Volvo give me a half a day. Take it home, load it up with all your holiday gear and try it in your garage. Lexus; be back in a hour otherwise there's no insurance. I can't get rid of mine soon enough and it won't be for another Lexus.

everything you see negative is exactly as you said - you should have discovered this at the test drive. BTW IS250/350/F have all the same.
So not the car is crap, but your choice was bad.

PS:1st gear problem. I have heard about this already, but I don't understand what it is.

If you read the post I explained I only got an hours test drive and spent over half an hour in traffic getting out of the city. You learn diddly about a car sitting in a traffic jam. Now Naively I assumed the IS would have split fold rear seats like every other manufacturer I'd looked at. It wasn't until after purchase we realised it didn't. No split fold rear seats mean the woeful boot capacity comes into play.

I cannot believe cars destined for the Slovak market have no first gear issues. It makes the car a death trap when pulling out into a busy flow of traffic or trying to cross a busy dual carriageway especially when loaded with passengers.

The car is aimed at the opposition, therefore the car is crap as the opposition have it beat. Hence why there will be NO revised 220d. Lexus have waved the white flag and given up on it. The fact they have given up speaks volumes for how good or bad the car is. Do you seriously think they'd dump the car if it was anywhere near giving the opposition a run for their money? I don't. The fact that the car suits you doesn't make it a good car either. Touche.

Once again you're saying the 220d is crap just because you don't like it. You have a serious problem trying to figure out that your opinion is not universal. If you don't like something, please feel free to say so. But stop making conclusive summaries based on your sole experience. Have you seen any of us happy 220d owners saying that the car must be perfect because we're happy with it?

Yes, YOU! Face facts, Lexus aren't continuing with the model. Does that not speak volumes to you? If not it should. The IS250 is an infinitely better car and that is why Lexus are putting their prowess behind that and not the IS220d. Just my opinion, but then Lexus must be stupid to not continue with the IS220d if it's as good as you claim it is. Moving on..........

Feel free to quote the post where I've said the 220d is perfect.

AFAIK, the 220d will remain. Feel free to post a link to anything even remotely official saying it will be dropped.

The IS 250 is a better car for some people and for some purposes. Not for me, not for many others. How hard is this to get?

I've never once said the 220d is crap. The IS is a great car. The issue I have is someone who says the IS250 is good in heavy urban traffic and for everything else the 220d is ahead. It's total and utter tosh. That's all I'm saying.

Finlex, go speak to your Lexus workshop staff. That's where the information came from. The IS220d has been disapointing in terms of sales and fault reporting. Fleet buyers are still flocking to the opposition. Enough owners have traded in for either another model or gone to the other manufacturers to set the alarm bells ringing. Lexus know they got it wrong and WILL finish the model. Over here you can buy one with everything thrown at it at a huge discount. Even base models are being offered with full leather in order to get rid of the line. Used values of the 220d are plummeting. It is a dead parot. I'm made up for you that you rate it, but there is enough of a chorous from many slating it.

I can only see Lexus finishing the 220d model if they manage to make a hybrid IS, which I seriously doubt. Lexus needs a car to compete in the company car market, and the IS 250 definately can't do it because of its high tax and fuel consumption. Think about this, those customers that currently own a 220d, would have they considered buying a Lexus IS if there was no diesel engine in the range? I definately wouldn't even had considered it and probably would have bought a BMW, Audi or Mercedes diesel instead. And I believe this would be the case for many other 220d owners, not only here but across Europe. You are underestimating the huge market for diesel cars, and Lexus Europe probably knows this. And as Finlex said, before you claim that Lexus will finish the 220d and that they "got it wrong", please post a link that supports that, because honestly the opinion of some guys working at a workshop is hardly an official statement...

GaryC,

I'll quote myself:



Not better is not the same as being behind, but yes, I really think the 220d is better than the 250 A in some things.

I think the 250 A is much better than the 220d in heavy urban traffic. I think the 220d is slightly better for my usage (only about 5 percent urban). Am I not allowed to say that I find a diesel car better for extra-urban cruising? That is what diesels are meant for. That is why I chose the 220d, and would choose it again. What is the problem you (and some others) are having with that?

I've talked with Lexus staff every chance I've gotten. None have said the 220d will be dropped. The diesel market is extremely important in Europe. That is why Lexus made a diesel version in the first place, and nothing has changed since. I'll believe Lexus dropping the 220d when I see it confirmed by Lexus. If you can provide this confirmation, please do. That would be much more useful and informative than you're average post telling us that you hate the 220d.

So you want me to get an inside source to post up on here what Lexus' intentions with their diesel are effectively hitting sales of what's left of the run and jeopardising their job? You're in a bigger dream than I initially thought. You like it and I don't. Many share your view and many share mine. Has it been a success against the opposition? No. Has it been prone to faults? Yes. How many mods to the fifth injector so far? And Lexus have said that the latest mod will be the final one. Recovery companies have been instructed not to attempt a fix at the road side, but to take the car to the nearest Lexus dealer for fault rectifying. This is the first attempt to gain a share of the diesel market by Lexus and it will be the last. Prices of the smelly stuff far outweigh petrol and the petrol engines are close when it comes to realtime driving. I firmly believe my source. I've got no problem with you believing yours.

I think this is done to death now. Neither of us will change our viewpoints. Good luck to you.

Fine by me. I think I've had enough of your insults and hatemongering. But as little as I have understanding for your way of communicating, I really hope you find peace with your bad Lexus experience.

there is nothing I can say to this. I had the car borrowed twice, once for short drive and then for 4 hours. So could you, maybe not, I don't know.



if you rev the engine to 2000rpm and then release the clutch, the car is very quick from the standstill. As this is a turbo charged car, this is normal behaviour.



which opposition cars have you driven and how long?

and do you think with other marques it is different?
Audi is called christmas tree, guess why.
My dad and mom have merc's, and some friends of mine have bmw's. Mods, recalls...unfortunately it is the everyday reality.

Regarding the 5th injector, I am in touch with some people with IS220d here in europe, and nobody has ever had problems with 5th injector - when I take into account the consumption problems, I still hardly suspect that you in GB have bad diesel quality.

Anyway, even if it seems to me that europe doesn't have problem with 5th injector, we got it changed. I think this is nice from the manufacturer, because they dont wait till the problem happens. Unlike other manufacturers, say Skoda - after euroNCAP they discovered problem - at headon accident the battery is likely to disconnect and therefore the airbags and other stuff did not work correctly at the accident. They have changed some procedures and fixation of the battery to the new models, and the already made models? Who cares, they let it be...

This thread sums it all up. The cars are pretty middle of the road from a performance perspective now and no one will disagree on that (me thinks). They stand head and shoulders above everything from a looks and VFM perspective. Again many will not disagree with that.

So what do we disagree or have such a split on? The diesel... Fuel economy, emissions control systems, gearing and some cars having rattles and squeaks...and the 250 Auto suffers from much less problems.

Time to move on guys!!!! Janey will be along soon to close this I reckon...it's all getting uncomfortably personal...and I wasn't involvd!!!

You must be kidding, who have you got in touch with to state this?

Among ou members (Club LexIS France), most of IS220d owners have had the problem of the 5th injector. And some of them several times. And the gas mileage is a MAJOR issue too. Unfortunately we must admit that car is LEXUS first failure.

that's a news for me.

We all have our views but I am half way through a 4 year lease and am limited by price to what I can have by my Company. The base 220d was right on my limit and if I wanted anything with comparable quality and toys was looking at several K more for the German Competition. The 3 series even had less leg room in the back than the 220.


I am please with my machine, it has had its problems (leaking Oil seal and water pump), its had the 5th injector done twice and the paintwork crazes at the sight of a stone chip, but it is a great car. It drives well, it is comfortable and above all its not a BMW mass produced clone that fills our Company Car Park. I swapped up from a Laguna Diesel that fell apart after 3 years and cost the leasing company thousands in fixing the Turbo problems they had! The Consumption was 45mpg compared with the 42 I get with the 220 and I have an extra 50 BHP to play with. Yes, the consumption will so down to 38mpg when I put my concrete boots on but that is not why I chose the 220d. If I wanted sport then there are other cars out there that would give me that but I would not have the luxury I have now.

My problem is that proces have gone up but my limit has not so what do I choose next? Funnily enough the Vectra replacement looks a complete copy of the 220d so I may have to go down that route.

So, all you guys out there who like the 220d come out of the closet.

Oh no have they released a 2 litre diesel now ?

I must be one of many few lucky 220d owner who hasnt have much problem with the car yet, i did test drive both the 220d and the 250, if i had more money at the times i would have gone for the 250, but since i never had a diesel before, and also want to lower the running cost, that how i went for the 220d (then the damn fuel prices went throught the roof....), its almost 2 years old now, only done 3087 miles, and atm its do 38.9mpg avg and 41.3mpg tank avg (without the 5th injector recall), its not a perfect car, gear box for a start, also the the vibrating rear view mirror (my do it but not too bad),stone chips on bonnet and front bumper already, but even with those problems i still love the car, it had all the things i wanted, and i will enjoy driving it when ever i can, and would i buy another one? of course i will.....

Ha ha
it makes me laugh at times reading some of these posts
its like some school kids my cars better than your car my dads bigger than yours
Who Cares what anyone thinks, it is all down to personal preference
some have a 250auto and love it some have a 250 manual and love it
and some have the 220D and love it
As i say personal preference and thank god we have a choice or everything would be a tad boring

I have a 220d Reason is i wanted better fuel economy compared to my IS200 Which i am now getting AVG 40.2MPG
which before you all say the is250 is just as good. well i dont care as i have made my choice.
i have all the Toys inside that a 250 MM has including leather seats with air flow that cools yer Bum n back
I could not care if any one says oh but the diesel will drop in value so fast. i dont intend selling it. so it is not dropping.

Please can we all get on and stop the bitchy school boy comments
and remember you selected LEXUS as the Brand because some of the others out there (German) ar just too common

Said My bit

Matt

again I´m very happy with my IS 220d Sport. I don´t think there´s a better car for ME out there all things considered.

My neighbour just buyed a new Volvo V50 2.0 diesel - when he discovered that his car was some 25 000 - 35 000 Sek (9 Sek is about 1 Euro) more expensive to buy then my Lex he could not believe his ears - I had to show him the paperwork.

Then we started to compare the cars - The Volvo had larger trunk that´s all it´s better at. MPG is about the same. Quality, looks, gadgets, comfort, steering, feel etc was a clear win for the Lex.

If you compare the IS with other premium cars (Audi, BMW, Merc) you have to pay something like min. 100 000 Sek more to get the same gadgets here, granted you may have slightly better MPG, bigger boot but that´s about it.

1st gear issue? Learn to drive the car for crissake.

/jalfa

Learn to drive! First gear is pathetic in the 220d. It is too short range to be able to pull out in fast flowing traffic without either revving the nuts off the engine thereby further hampering the mediocre MPG or impeding the flow of traffic. With a car full of adults it's even worse. The car is renowned for it and has had it commented on in road tests. I'm employed to drive fast so I do know how to drive and I also spend a lot of time on race tracks with the R1 so I certainly know what quick is.

Some of you will be very happy with the car. I'd say an equal number aren't. It's not going to be replaced and sadly you'll just have to wait until Lexus openly admit it to the public. Probably once the stock of them has depleted enough.

on sport model the 1st gear is even shorter and nobody complaints.
My girlfriend knows to drive this car and you guys don't - shame on you