Hi there, was driving down the M3 today coming back from work and saw a cop car on the hard shoulder with lights on, went past (checking speed) and saw in the rear view them pull out. Continued along and they appeared in the rear view with lights flashing. Got pulled over and they said that I had gone past a reg check camera which flagged me as having no insurance (glad it wasn't a speed camera ).

Spoke to the policeman who was really polite and to be fair just said to call my insurance company to get them to check they had put my details onto the insurance register correctly, no need to produce documents or anything.

Just wondered has this happened to anyone else, seems pretty odd as insurance has been running for about five months so you would have thought I would have been pulled before.

you were lucky to get away without anything

Exactly the same happened to me a few months ago. The copper was a right ****.

But managed to convince in the end i did have it and it was a mistake somewhere so he gave me 24 hours and he'd check my reg again and if i still didnt he'd send me a summons. He said he was being nice and if it'd happened in Manchester or a big city they'd just tow my car and i'd have to take it up with the insurance company! I'd have gone off my **** if that would have happened!

rung my insurance company the next day and they told me i wasnt insured. So rung my broker and kicked off big style cause i'd paid in full and they said they'd ring the insurance company.
Got a phone call a few minutes later saying they'd been a mix up and i they'd back dated the insurance. I was livid still though.

Anyway that was the last i heard of it, but i was about 5months into my policy as well before i got hit by one of the ANPR (auto numberplate recognition) cameras and pulled over.

Its ridiculus how insurance companies charge you the earth for insurance cause its the law to have it, then can't even do their jobs properly and make sure the register is updated.

Stav

Quite a common problem is insurance company's not keeping the records between them and the police up-to-date. I remember talking to one of the lads who I taught to drive not long after he passed his test. He was pulled over on three seperate ocassions for no insurance. He did have insurance and even a good discount for doing pass plus. He even had his car impounded twice (by the same copper) because his insurance hadn't botherd to update the PNC or what ever it is called.

[quote name='jsj24uk' post='572809' date='Aug 17 2008, 09:57 PM']Quite a common problem is insurance company's not keeping the records between them and the police up-to-date. I remember talking to one of the lads who I taught to drive not long after he passed his test. He was pulled over on three seperate ocassions for no insurance. He did have insurance and even a good discount for doing pass plus. He even had his car impounded twice (by the same copper) because his insurance hadn't botherd to update the PNC or what ever it is called.[/quote]

It is very easy to check that your insurance company has updated the insurance database.

[url="http://www.askmid.com/"]http://www.askmid.com/[/url]

It is a legal requirement for the insurers of privately owned vehicles to add details to the database within 7 days of issuing a policy.

I have had the same (though i was pulled for excessive speed!), but this was less than a week into my policy and they were just slow at updating the database.

Also once had AA insurance write to me to tell me my bike insurance was no longer valid as my licence had been taken away. They just made that up!

A girl at work picked up a band new Mini. Had complementary 7 day dealership insurance and her own. However she got pulled over in Moss Side, neither was showing up on the Police Computer, so they towed her car and left her to find her own way home!!!

Hmmm, seems like a pretty common problem then. Called my insurer today, no apology just said "oh yes, it looks like you are not on the database" like it was my bloody fault, said it will take a few days to add you on, just carry your insurance till then and the phone went down.

[quote name='dave1' post='572877' date='Aug 18 2008, 09:14 AM'][quote name='jsj24uk' post='572809' date='Aug 17 2008, 09:57 PM']Quite a common problem is insurance company's not keeping the records between them and the police up-to-date. I remember talking to one of the lads who I taught to drive not long after he passed his test. He was pulled over on three seperate ocassions for no insurance. He did have insurance and even a good discount for doing pass plus. He even had his car impounded twice (by the same copper) because his insurance hadn't botherd to update the PNC or what ever it is called.[/quote]

It is very easy to check that your insurance company has updated the insurance database.

[url="http://www.askmid.com/"]http://www.askmid.com/[/url]

It is a legal requirement for the insurers of privately owned vehicles to add details to the database within 7 days of issuing a policy.
[/quote]
Everyone should do this! Had no idea! But there I was!

[quote name='aaronabbott' post='572798' date='Aug 17 2008, 09:28 PM']you were lucky to get away without anything[/quote]
Why lucky? They can't do anything to you when you're fully legal. If the insurance company tell them you're insured, the absolute worst they can do to you is request you to produce your documentation within 7 days.

But if they search and at that time the system says your not insured they can impound your car until they find out otherwise! and they often do. You've got to take it up with your insurance company for compensation.

Stav

A week and a half and still insurance company not updated the database - having computer issues apparently between departments, now writing a note to send between the parts of the company - confidence inspiring stuff huh!

[quote name='tridentmorph' post='576104' date='Aug 26 2008, 08:56 PM']A week and a half and still insurance company not updated the database - having computer issues apparently between departments, now writing a note to send between the parts of the company - confidence inspiring stuff huh![/quote]

Did you ask your insurers what they will do to compensate you if you get pulled and your car is impounded?
Remind them that it is their responsibility to ensure that the insurance database is updated within 7 days of a policy being issued or an amendment made to the policy....eg if you change your car. I would not be accepting computer issues as an excuse after 5+ months. Does that mean that all their policyholders for that period are also not on the database.......I doubt it.

[quote name='dave1' post='576227' date='Aug 27 2008, 07:29 AM'][quote name='tridentmorph' post='576104' date='Aug 26 2008, 08:56 PM']A week and a half and still insurance company not updated the database - having computer issues apparently between departments, now writing a note to send between the parts of the company - confidence inspiring stuff huh![/quote]

Did you ask your insurers what they will do to compensate you if you get pulled and your car is impounded?
Remind them that it is their responsibility to ensure that the insurance database is updated within 7 days of a policy being issued or an amendment made to the policy....eg if you change your car. I would not be accepting computer issues as an excuse after 5+ months. Does that mean that all their policyholders for that period are also not on the database.......I doubt it.
[/quote]

When this happened to me i told them they had 24hours to do it or i would be issued with a court summons and i certainly wouldnt be paying for my travel to court, my solicitor, court fees, or any insurance rise should i end up with Points from the incident.

Half an hour it took them to ring me back and tell them it was sorted.

Stav

[quote name='sparkystav' post='576263' date='Aug 27 2008, 09:57 AM'][quote name='dave1' post='576227' date='Aug 27 2008, 07:29 AM'][quote name='tridentmorph' post='576104' date='Aug 26 2008, 08:56 PM']A week and a half and still insurance company not updated the database - having computer issues apparently between departments, now writing a note to send between the parts of the company - confidence inspiring stuff huh![/quote]

Did you ask your insurers what they will do to compensate you if you get pulled and your car is impounded?
Remind them that it is their responsibility to ensure that the insurance database is updated within 7 days of a policy being issued or an amendment made to the policy....eg if you change your car. I would not be accepting computer issues as an excuse after 5+ months. Does that mean that all their policyholders for that period are also not on the database.......I doubt it.
[/quote]

When this happened to me i told them they had 24hours to do it or i would be issued with a court summons and i certainly wouldnt be paying for my travel to court, my solicitor, court fees, or any insurance rise should i end up with Points from the incident.

Half an hour it took them to ring me back and tell them it was sorted.

Stav
[/quote]
Never underestimate the power of money - they love to take it, but aren't so keen to give it away and will usually do what is necessary to avoid it!

Hmmm, I didn't realise they can tow your car right there and then

Might put a scan of my cover note on my phone in case I ever get pulled over for the same thing.............As an aside, I just went on that link above, checked all our cars and thankfully they're all on the register, but for some reason the other 4 all come up with details of what the car is, whereas for mine it just shows a big blue arrow - any reason why?

I'm afraid a scan of your cover note doesnt mean squat to them in these days of computers. Anyone can make up a cover note on a PC.

If your not on the register, they may give you a chance and ring the insurance company in your presence to see if theres a mistake, or they may just tow it and let you sort it out.

They can tow it because you can't prove your insured so they can't have an uninsured car on the road. So they remove it.

Stav

So they arent like they are on the TV when the cameras are there then?

On TV they ask who you are insured with and then call the insurance company to check - If OK they let you on your way - If not - its only then they take the car.

i got stuffed 2 years ago for this, i had a old escort cab, pulled over by traffic cops who said i had no insurance, they took my car and i had to contact morethan , then get my car back 2 hours later having too pay 130 pounds for the tow! , hence to say i left morethan when they would not coff up for there mistake, the police had the tv with them so i think they were being a deliberate a@*$ ,

[quote name='Mark W' post='576445' date='Aug 27 2008, 08:08 PM']So they arent like they are on the TV when the cameras are there then?

On TV they ask who you are insured with and then call the insurance company to check - If OK they let you on your way - If not - its only then they take the car.[/quote]


Yeah they can do that, if they feel like it, otherwise they're within their righta to just tow it and ask questions later.

i had this also, so now i always keep a photocopy. been pulled once for a 'random check' and showed it and there were no problems

johny

Why can't the insurance companies issue a plastic card ( credit card sized) with the insurance details embossed on it? You sign it as you do a credit card,put a hologram on it for security and keep it in your wallet.

[quote name='steve2006' post='607453' date='Nov 22 2008, 01:02 PM']Why can't the insurance companies issue a plastic card ( credit card sized) with the insurance details embossed on it? You sign it as you do a credit card,put a hologram on it for security and keep it in your wallet.[/quote]

Because thats too easy and would cost them money.

Photocopies,hologram cards etc do not prove anything, even the original Certificate of Insurance proves absolutely nothing. Scenario...take out insurance....get certificate of insurance from insurer....cancel insurance( full refund normally if cancelled within first 14 days with no claim made).....drive car and if pulled show certificate to police( which is in your possession even though you have cancelled your policy.)......job done-another uninsured gets away with it. Do drivers who are complying with tax/insurance/MOT really want this to happen? This is why they can impound your car. Keep your insurance details handy but only so that if you are pulled or are involved in RTA then at least you can get the police to phone your insurers to check. OMO anyone driving with no insurance/MoT(no MoT can invalidate insurance)/tax deserves to get hammered a lot more than they seem to.

Surely if the insurers keep the database upto date then the computer method is the most superior?

No need to be pulled check or having to carry documents.

[quote name='dave1' post='607489' date='Nov 22 2008, 02:52 PM']Photocopies,hologram cards etc do not prove anything, even the original Certificate of Insurance proves absolutely nothing. Scenario...take out insurance....get certificate of insurance from insurer....cancel insurance( full refund normally if cancelled within first 14 days with no claim made).....drive car and if pulled show certificate to police( which is in your possession even though you have cancelled your policy.)......job done-another uninsured gets away with it. Do drivers who are complying with tax/insurance/MOT really want this to happen? This is why they can impound your car. Keep your insurance details handy but only so that if you are pulled or are involved in RTA then at least you can get the police to phone your insurers to check. OMO anyone driving with no insurance/MoT(no MoT can invalidate insurance)/tax deserves to get hammered a lot more than they seem to.[/quote]
Technically you're right, when my insurance was just up for renewal, they sent me next years certificate before I actually renewed. I could have easily rang them up and told them I wasn't renewing, but still had a certificate saying I had another year's insurance.

Yep Stav's right, the insurers should keep the database up to date, but the police should not be able to impound the car if you could easily give the ins company a ring and confirm that you have insurance.

[quote name='Parthiban' post='607531' date='Nov 22 2008, 06:39 PM']Technically you're right, when my insurance was just up for renewal, they sent me next years certificate before I actually renewed. I could have easily rang them up and told them I wasn't renewing, but still had a certificate saying I had another year's insurance.

Yep Stav's right, the insurers should keep the database up to date, but the police should not be able to impound the car if you could easily give the ins company a ring and confirm that you have insurance.[/quote]

A lot of them do give you chance, they pull you over and have the phone numbers for most insurers with them so they can check before they impound the car. Suppose it depends on what sort of day their having.

[quote name='sparkystav' post='607527' date='Nov 22 2008, 06:30 PM']Surely if the insurers keep the database upto date then the computer method is the most superior?[/quote]
Some people believe paper records are better Stav as electronic media is inefficient

[quote name='DJ Wozza' post='607644' date='Nov 23 2008, 12:12 PM'][quote name='sparkystav' post='607527' date='Nov 22 2008, 06:30 PM']Surely if the insurers keep the database upto date then the computer method is the most superior?[/quote]
Some people believe paper records are better Stav as electronic media is inefficient
[/quote]


LOL oh yeah. Did you read that in that Gospel you've got

That book is like a get out of jail free card when you get pulled over.......
I smite the officers with it's holy teachings and they just run away

Whenever my insurance company has sent me a pre-emptive certificate for the next year and i have cancelled it: they have always asked me to send it back (in an enevelope they provide) having written VOID or CANCELLED on it.

Ed

I think you will find that an officer of the law can ask you for your full documents and you have to produce them when requested.

I have a motor trade policy which staes i dont have to tell the insurance company of what cars i am driving and when, mearly because i would be on the phone 20 times a day.
If i buy a car which i intend to keep for more than 7 days i do have to inform them of this.
I live in Manchester, which has been mentioned in this thread already, the police do ask for your insurance details if you cant produce them they do tow your car. They dont have to check with your insurance company its not their job to do so. If the computer comes back with a "no insurance" then they tow your car simple as that, having your certificate with you isnt proof it just proves that you did have insurance at some point. Infact if the police let you drive on without proof your insured strickly speaking hes not doing his job Hes asked you for proof of insurance which you didnt satisfy, therefore your not insured and your car should not be allowed on the road with you driving it.

Just a quick point to add. I just ran a check on the askmid web site (link posted above). I put in a number plate that is currently held on retention certificate as a cherished plate. The results came back as a bmw 325 coupe that the plate used to be registered to 6 weeks ago. So their records are wrong and i only checked one vehicle.

[quote name='fil4362' post='688008' date='Aug 27 2009, 11:07 PM']I think you will find that an officer of the law can ask you for your full documents and you have to produce them when requested.[/quote]

If you are driving in a lot of countries (France is an example) then you need to carry all your docs and your vehicle's registration docs with you. In the UK there is currently no requirement to do so. In the UK there is a form which the police carry and issue requiring you to show the documents they require, at a police station of [b]your choice [/b]within 7 days.

[quote name='dave1' post='688032' date='Aug 28 2009, 07:01 AM'][quote name='fil4362' post='688008' date='Aug 27 2009, 11:07 PM']I think you will find that an officer of the law can ask you for your full documents and you have to produce them when requested.[/quote]

If you are driving in a lot of countries (France is an example) then you need to carry all your docs and your vehicle's registration docs with you. In the UK there is currently no requirement to do so. In the UK there is a form which the police carry and issue requiring you to show the documents they require, at a police station of [b]your choice [/b]within 7 days.
[/quote]

I dont think the law states you have to carry your docs with you but then you are supose to produce them when asked to do so.

I havent seen one of the forms you mention in years. I used to collect them getting atleast one a week. Now your details are all kept on computer i havnt seen the "hort1" ticket issued for ages.
i once got one requesting to see my log book along with insurance and mot. Having red the ticket, the log bok didnt need to be presented within the 7 day time period, just at a time conveniant to me. This was probably 3 years ago i still havnt produced it and dont even own the car any more.

[quote name='fil4362' post='688144' date='Aug 28 2009, 07:06 PM'][quote name='dave1' post='688032' date='Aug 28 2009, 07:01 AM'][quote name='fil4362' post='688008' date='Aug 27 2009, 11:07 PM']I think you will find that an officer of the law can ask you for your full documents and you have to produce them when requested.[/quote]

If you are driving in a lot of countries (France is an example) then you need to carry all your docs and your vehicle's registration docs with you. In the UK there is currently no requirement to do so. In the UK there is a form which the police carry and issue requiring you to show the documents they require, at a police station of [b]your choice [/b]within 7 days.
[/quote]

I dont think the law states you have to carry your docs with you but then you are supose to produce them when asked to do so.

I havent seen one of the forms you mention in years. I used to collect them getting atleast one a week. Now your details are all kept on computer i havnt seen the "hort1" ticket issued for ages.
i once got one requesting to see my log book along with insurance and mot. Having red the ticket, the log bok didnt need to be presented within the 7 day time period, just at a time conveniant to me. This was probably 3 years ago i still havnt produced it and dont even own the car any more.
[/quote]

So which is it? You say that the forms are no longer needed because everything is "on computer" (I know the forms do still get issued by the way) and then you say that the computer database is not always up to date. You say that you have to produce your full documentation when requested by "an officer of the law" but how can you do this when you agree that it is not compulsory to carry them in your vehicle in the UK? That is why the 7 day "producer" is still around.

[quote name='dave1' post='688254' date='Aug 30 2009, 08:26 AM'][quote name='fil4362' post='688144' date='Aug 28 2009, 07:06 PM'][quote name='dave1' post='688032' date='Aug 28 2009, 07:01 AM'][quote name='fil4362' post='688008' date='Aug 27 2009, 11:07 PM']I think you will find that an officer of the law can ask you for your full documents and you have to produce them when requested.[/quote]

If you are driving in a lot of countries (France is an example) then you need to carry all your docs and your vehicle's registration docs with you. In the UK there is currently no requirement to do so. In the UK there is a form which the police carry and issue requiring you to show the documents they require, at a police station of [b]your choice [/b]within 7 days.
[/quote]

I dont think the law states you have to carry your docs with you but then you are supose to produce them when asked to do so.

I havent seen one of the forms you mention in years. I used to collect them getting atleast one a week. Now your details are all kept on computer i havnt seen the "hort1" ticket issued for ages.
i once got one requesting to see my log book along with insurance and mot. Having red the ticket, the log bok didnt need to be presented within the 7 day time period, just at a time conveniant to me. This was probably 3 years ago i still havnt produced it and dont even own the car any more.
[/quote]

So which is it? You say that the forms are no longer needed because everything is "on computer" (I know the forms do still get issued by the way) and then you say that the computer database is not always up to date. You say that you have to produce your full documentation when requested by "an officer of the law" but how can you do this when you agree that it is not compulsory to carry them in your vehicle in the UK? That is why the 7 day "producer" is still around.
[/quote]
It isnt law to carry your docs but you are supose to produce them when requested. So sence would say carry them, although its not legal to do so. Its because people dont carry them that the "hort1" ticket was introduced.
People carry the plastic part of their liecence but with out the paper part its not a complete document doesnt stop people only carrying the plastic bit though.
The police still issue the defect notices. The ticket you get when you have a minor defect on your car and you have to fix it then take your car to a mot station, get the car checked, then get the ticket stamped with the garage embosing stamp.
Why do they still issue these tickets ??? since the introduction of computerised mot testing garages were told to destroy the embossing stamp. How the hell do you get the ticket stamped when no garages have the correct stamp.
The police work to diffrent laws to mot testing, so some times it makes it impossible to keep within the rules. quick example, the police dont allow the coloured led washer jet lights that were comman a while back. These lights are nothing to do with the mot. As long as a car has one side light each side of the car any other sidelights are nothing to do with the mot.
So what i am saying is the law and comman sence are not the same. The rules do not always make sence. You are supose to produce your docs when asked this is the law if you dont carry them then its your fault. A copper can check the data base but this will only confirm that your car is moted and insured doesnt prove its insured for you to drive or you are who you are saying you are though does it. If you can prove who you say you are and the data base says the car is insured for you then fine. If not the copper will issue a "hort1" ticket. Simple thing to do is carry your docs. why not carry them?? if you leave your docs in the car and your car gets stolen they person who nicks the car will have the same problems proving they are legal you had. save yourself the agro of a ticket carry your docs. the law is the law its doesnt always make sence.

This happened to me at the weekend and I ended up getting my car seized by a right set of w**k**s!

I changed my policy to the lexus on Friday afternoon and got pulled on Saturday for no insurance on the PNC, I explained that I had just changed my policy and that it may not be up to date on the system but they would not listen.

I convinced them to ring the insurance company to check my policy, they had the phone on loud speaker and after listening to some classical music for a couple of minutes they hung up and told me to find a way home as they were taking my car! I pleaded with them to stay on hold until they could talk to someone from the insurance company but they said there time is too precious.

Needless to say I was fuming when they told me I needed to find a lift home (40 miles from home) and I would have to pay £150+VAT to get my car back as well as being reported for no insurance!

I have since spoken to my insurance company who have confirmed that I was insured on the car so im not too worried about being reported for the offence but im still gutted about the loss of my car for 2 days and having to pay for the recovery. I will be going to the police station at some point today with my insurance documents and ill play hell about the whole drama, I think its well within my right to tell them where to shove the recovery fee.

[quote name='Jonny B' timestamp='1297077589' post='745702']
This happened to me at the weekend and I ended up getting my car seized by a right set of w**k**s!

I changed my policy to the lexus on Friday afternoon and got pulled on Saturday for no insurance on the PNC, I explained that I had just changed my policy and that it may not be up to date on the system but they would not listen.

I convinced them to ring the insurance company to check my policy, they had the phone on loud speaker and after listening to some classical music for a couple of minutes they hung up and told me to find a way home as they were taking my car! I pleaded with them to stay on hold until they could talk to someone from the insurance company but they said there time is too precious.

Needless to say I was fuming when they told me I needed to find a lift home (40 miles from home) and I would have to pay £150+VAT to get my car back as well as being reported for no insurance!

I have since spoken to my insurance company who have confirmed that I was insured on the car so im not too worried about being reported for the offence but im still gutted about the loss of my car for 2 days and having to pay for the recovery. I will be going to the police station at some point today with my insurance documents and ill play hell about the whole drama, I think its well within my right to tell them where to shove the recovery fee.
[/quote]
theirs no point.......go to the station show them your policy and you wont need to pay a fee.......

i would just like to clear a few things up if i may. I know i am new to the forums, but unfortunately, i am a officer of the law....... I can here all the booo's now..lol

The law states that you have to produce your vehicle documents when requested to do so by a Constable. If you can not, then the offence is complete. However, the police then give you a HORT1 which gives you the benifit of the doubt to produce your documents to a police station of your choice, within 7 days from midnight, that night. If any offences are disclosed, then you may / will be summonsed for those offences.

In relation to insurance, only about 90% of insurance companies subscribe to a system which updates PNC. The major problem is that there is 10% that don't and also most of the time, a lot of the fault does lie with the individual motorist. A classic example is that you take out an insurance policy on a pay monthly basis, however, if you do not keep up your monthly payments, the insurance company stops your insurance straight away, but most of the time, do not notify you. So when you bring in your documents to the police station, all information is then added to the computer and it checks everything. But people also change insurance companies as well, so all previous details are not the same.

In relation to the person that the bobbies would not wait to check the insurance details, that is absolutely crap. They have a duty to check all avenues to see if the car is insured before seizing the car, i would in your case make an official complaint against the officers in question. I can guarantee you that you will not have to pay any costs or charges. Just keep pushing it and you will win, as long as you were fully covered at that time and produced all your documents correctly.

I hope that i have cleared a few things up, if not, feel free to ask.

Welcome, it's always useful to hear these kind of facts from a copper