I saved reposting here until today for the following reasons...


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10072404...adStoriesArea.0

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/10/22/ap5587578.html

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/18841/

etc etc etc - just look at the tech press.

Anyone care to quote Nokia, Sony-Ericsson or RIM "profits"?


Apple are now the 3rd largest global mobile retailer by revenue after Nokia and Samsung.

In about 2-3 years Apple will be number one - mark my words.

Those who don't "get" the iPhone will do soon enough, even though they will probably still be scrabbling around looking for ways to denigrate it to justify misplaced purchases of failing platforms.

Many people still clinging to the past with "normal" phones will switch to the iPhone and understand what has been talked about.

Apple have created what is going to be the world's most successful mobile computing platform. Watch it sail by and miss out if you so choose - Apple are not missing the dollars.


Oh and yes you can quote me, just as I will be enjoying quoting some of you in the future.




Go for it ---->

just because Apple makes great profits it doesn't necessary make their products better than a competitors
may just mean that their margins are higher, thus the consumer may well be paying over the odds

can i ask what your involvement in Apple is, do you work for them in some way ?

Why is this thread back online again? It was removed earlier today because it was deliberatly antagonising to other LOC members.

Good to know Apple are doing well............... nice for my shares

my phone rings, i answer , and i text, dont rearly need more than that!

As Bazza says, volume of sales don't necessarily have any bearing on quality - look at Lexus and BMW for example (lol)

Seriously though, yes the iPhone sells very well, but as I've mentioned it's a fashion item, so will always sell very well. The more telling fact is the number of people (even on here) that have bought one and then very quickly gone on to something else.

It is possibly a very good mobile platform, and potentially the best phone ever, but it's not quite there yet. It's a very good phone as are many others on the market, and each have their own drawbacks............best to accept that and move on.

Obviously if there is a point where everyone can say "there is not a single thing that I want that the iPhone can't do" then I think there's a point to your argument, but we definitely are not there yet.

'''Apple are now the 3rd largest global mobile retailer by revenue after Nokia and Samsung.'''

Good job i got 1st and 2nd (Nokia & Samsung) phone's then

You can take a horse to water but....................i think you know the rest

Bazza: you are correct that could be the case. Just look at Windows. In the case of iPhone however it is selling on merit alone, just like the iPod. This is the reason they managed to make the exclusivity deals with the operators, amongst other things. Such game changing sucess doesn't come without the prodcut to back it up.

Although I have dealt with Apple UK on a professional basis in the past I no longer work in that arena. Of course I am an investor in AAPL as should anyone who keeps an eye on market fluctuations and can see the bigger picture. It has been one of the best performing stocks in the US over the past 7 years. (If you want to make some money NOW is the time to buy - you will double your money by the time the world economy picks up again)

To be clear, my posts are nothing whatsoever to do with my shareholding, just my interest in Apple products, being a lifetime computer user and gadget freak. It was crystal clear from the moment I saw Mac OS X beta 8 years ago that the entire IT industry would be turned on it's head. Since then Apple has turned the music industry upside down, is working on the mobile industry and in the background is doing the same to the PC industry. It is clear as day.

Anees: If you think it through you would realise that the reason the thread was removed was due to the replies to the thread and not my initial post. Otherwise it wouldn't still be here. Right?

Parthiban: Correct. See above. iPhone has a 90% customer satisfaction rating which is the highest by far in the industry so the few here who supposedly have returned their iPhones are in the great minority and in no way indicative of what is really going on.

Gord: Bear in mind Apple have ONE phone. Nokia and Samsung distribute hundreds of phones to a global market and have done for YEARS. For Apple to be even anywhere NEAR these companies is incredible, and when Apple passes them in a few years time then Nokia and Samsung should hang their heads in shame for under-delivering to their customers.

When Apple distribute globally these sales figures are only going to increase.

Oh, and the iPhone Nano is not too far away...

Financial Times, 22nd Oct: Apple cautious despite profit rise

Apple on Tuesday became the latest technology company to cite a souring economy as it cut its forecast for the current quarter, even as profits rose by more than expected following a big jump in sales of its iPhone mobile handset. The maker of iPod music players and Macintosh personal computers said the difficult economic environment had led it to add an extra note of caution to its projections. “Visibility is low and forecasting is challenging, and as a result we are going to be prudent in predicting the December quarter,” said Peter Oppenheimer, chief financial officer.

even apple themselves are more realistic than you are...

as for third placed based on revenue.. does that not justify the 'overpriced' statements that many people seem to bring up?

I think Apple products a great. Sometimes not perfect, but usually much better than the competition.

I downloaded the naughty version of Mac OSX that can run on PC's a year or two back. I was that impressed with the OS, and the way it ran on my PC that I bought a Mac Mini. I used that for a year and migrated completely from the PC. Then I got some cash together and bought a new iMac and sold the Mac Mini.

I've looked long and hard and the iPhone though and have decided that for me, it's just too much PDA and not enough phone, it's just a bit too big (and expensive) for my liking.

The thing Apple does best is leave "market share" to other companies, they just make good stuff at a price they can make a profit on, yet still be fairly competitive with the top end ranges of mainstream manufacturers.

The original pricing model chosen was not really a success, and the iPhone is now being subsidised like almost every other phone - hence increase in sales recently now it is more affordable. iPhone is an attractive, fashionable product and I can understand why it sells well, but it is just one more phone. I think a lot of people will buy one, enjoy it for a short while (which tends to be when they write reviews) and then realise that whilst better than the original, the 3G is still low on features and they will start to resent it's bulk after a while.

When the Nano comes along, I will look at it with interest. But I don't much like touchscreens as I do too much texting. Any idea when it is due for release?

BTW, isn't it supposed to be coming to Orange as well, soon? Where don't they market it at the moment (that has a significant market for high-end phones)?

There's a concept that says there is a "Class A' truth and a "Class B' truth, related to VALUE.
Class A is based on REAL value, Class B on PERCEIVED value. (AS in, a handbag is "worth' only its cost, but it has a -fashion-driven- "perceived value")
So it's possible that in this case, Class B applies to the iPhone? (Not that it hasn't got some good qualities).
I have no bias here, as I don't have a (mobile) phone at all.
I certainly like Apples. I'm writing on an iMac; and iTunes have transformed my music listening so much that I'm seriously considering getting rid of my CDs -once I've downloaded them, Lossless. Coming from a serious hi-fi fan, as folk know, that's praise!(Srajan Ebaen on 6 Moons site reckons iTunes has made CD players almost redundant in listening terms.)
Let's hope that Apple develop their phone further? But the Taiwanese won't sleep!

I don't agree with that one bit, they had to have the exclusivity deal to prevent a price war - if it was out on all the networks, by now it would be free of charge on most tariffs with all kinds of line rental deals.

This would have made the iPod touch redundant and that is the sole reason they had to do this. They're losing customers by not being on all networks, but that's not as big a loss as the one if they lost sales of the Touch.

redz: You have been too hasty. I am sure you know I am well aware of the recent forecasts. Apple always offer conservative forecasts and always beat them, but that is beside the point. What I am saying is that over the past 7 years AAPL has been a winner and this drop - due solely to macroeconomics and not Apple performance - is a buying opportunity. The stock will be up near $200 again when the economic crisis is over. You don't have to take my advice of course, but I hope you would.

paradroid: that is a good assessment, however as far as market share is concerned the iPod and iTunes Music store rule the roost (iTunes is the world's largest music distributor!), the Mac is up to 9% in the US and growing steadily globally, particularly in education and the home, and the iPhone is miniscule but just getting started. watch this space!

Despite its name the iPhone is a mobile computer platform, not a phone.

Mike_B: I wouldn't say the pricing model wasn't a success! The iPhone was only released in 6 countries and everyone saw the queues as it was released. It was selling out all the time. The new pricing structure made it more attactive of course, but it was hardly dropped due to lack of sales but to increase market penetration. The huge revenue stream to Apple is in large part due to revenue sharing agreements with the operators and not the price of the phone.

A PAYG iPhone is avalaible now for £350 btw.

O2 signed a 3 year exclusivity agreement - you can expect it to be available on most operators after that. I think.

iPhone Nano? This will come out when sales of the iPhone level out I suspect, so don't hold your breath! If I had to guess I would say next September in time for Xmas.

Chris: I also rip my toonz using lossless. Screw the HD space - it has to be done!

Parthiban: Apple set the price of the iPhone not the operators.

I do like the iphone.. its a great idea.. and i do keep toying with the idea...

BUT...

Size... lack of conventional buttons... they are what keep me at bay..

I need a phone.. as strange as that seems.. make and recieve calls, text people.. what time and date it is and an alarm clock..

I have a W960i Sony.. and even that seems a little bit too much... well gadget over phone.. and it just cost me £55 for a new screen when the touch screen cracked.. loosing all my data when it got repaired!

Im all for the progression.. but look at it this way..

I am glad i no longer have someone working for me that had an iphone... all he did all day was keep playing with 1001 useless aplications.. catching eggs, blowing on candles etc etc... and as an employer it annoyed the hell out of me... and that was one of 14 employees... what would you do with 100+ employees with them?

am i the only one that thinks that there will be a complete revolt over the growing "pc phone" obsession and go back to a dot matrix LCD screen.....

A phone should be a phone and a pda should be a pda

Nice big screen with big 'buttons' will do it! 'Blowing candles out'? Is infantilism catching on?

I like the iPhone, it is a great leader in touch screen technology, and many competitive products from Nokia to even RIM Blackberry are going the way of full touch screen mobile devices.

I feel the market space here will end up much like the PC Vs Mac world, where the business drivers for either technology will be driven by corporate take up. Windows Mobile devices Vs Apple / iPhone devices. Will there ever be just a mobile phone market?

I have an iPod Touch for personal use and it is a great Wi-Fi web browser, and media player that can also play games, but I rarely do that. I use a Nokia and a Blackberry for work, and I have started to see corporate take-up of the iPhone due to new applications (Salesforce.com, Maps etc), and because it has WiFi it fits into Unified Communications environments much like Nokia with IP Phone features.

The technology battle continues... just don't get emotional or personal, it's only Technology!!

best thing said so far!

i hope this thread continues without personal digs by anyone....

Agree totally! Life's too short for fussing and fighting (John Lennon)

This is a phone



Still got it and it's still going as strong as the day I bought it - shame no-one makes handsets like that anymore!!

Still got my iPhone 2g and still love it - was worried earlier though as dropped it while working in the datacentre and it smacked into the floor and a couple of cabs but she's still alive- bent the metal tho and a few scratches on the screen but still feels ok which I'm surprised at as thought she'd have been dead by then - killed many phones with far less!

Definitely from a geek perspective the best phone by far I ever had, when you get used to these things you can rattle texts out at some serious speed!

I'd like a metal version of the 3G like the original phone is, maybe one day I'll upgrade but until the new one is broken I'll not be buying one - have to admit I do keep getting tempted by a foreign market unlocked one but we'll see.

The Iphone is only at the beginning on its life sales will slow as second hand unit prices fall, it will then be the time to see if apple can step it up. Why do all the ther phone companys have so many items, 1 to reach a wider audiance 2. to keep replacing units at a rapid speed to keep people updated with new bits and bobs.

As we know all the other phone companies will either copy the technology/change it and make it there own.

As i've said before i think the Iphone is bought as more of a fasion item instead of a useful tool (which im sure it is)

When ever jon, bill and frank have one of these at the bus stop people will start looking for the something else, like the Ipod, it completely took over the music scene everyone had them but now you see people going back to other products as the ipod has had its time, being replaced by other MP3 and of course phone with MP3 compatablity like the Iphone.

Also havent Apple wasted there time and money in making the Itouch as the Iphone does all the Itouch does and more ? I know they probably made a few mill out of it but why not just release the Iphone.

OMG.... i want to steal that off you... phones have only gone downhill sice they stopped making that phone...

so so so so want that phone.... did i tell you i want that phone!

i had about 3 of them in their varous states.... snakes... the best game ever!

These used to be my dads work phone we used to have loads of them lying around, might see if ive still got any LoL

I cant seem to post on these topics without it getting severally edited, or removed, so I can't be bothered anymore.

Maybe tomorrow...

A guy I know owns and runs a mobile phone shop.

This is his everyday phone. No joke.

They do rule.

Ellz: The iPod sales and market share is still increasing (it's at 83% now) so it's a little early to say the iPod has had its day.

Your second point has touched on something vital. Why does the iPod Touch exist? Why not just release the iPhone?

This is one of the fundamental reasons Steve Jobs has managed to bring Apple back from the brink of bankruptcy 10 years ago to where it is today. Apple's product roadmap has been delivered with such perfect timing and foresight.

Apple knows very well that the iPod will top out in market share soon - so where do they go from here? Keep making new iPods with new features? There is only so much you can do.

How about blurring the lines between the iPod line and the new iPhone - the iPod Touch. Then when a customer goes to buy a high end iPod they may seriously consider an iPhone as it does everything the Touch does and they could ditch their phone and just carry ONE device. That's kind of where we are now.

Now when the time is right the iPhone Mini, the iPhone Nano or maybe even the iPhone shuffle(!) will appear to blur the lines further or even REPLACE the iPod line completely. Prices will fall as the technology becomes more widely available. There will always be a high-end top spec iPhone with all the new good stuff but the existing tech will filter down to lower models.

Apple have a unique opportunity to switch its huge captive market up to the iPhone line. This is an astonishing opportunity that they will milk to the Nth degree and one of the many reasons other manufacturers are shaking in their boots.

The iPhone saga is at the very beginning.

True, as long as the financial crisis doesn't stop spending completely, Apple will continue to sell more and more as long as they can prevent what happened to Sony happening to themselves.

What you said about ONE device is exactly what I've been saying all along, the fact that the majority of iPhone users think this is the first package that allows you to just carry one device is the reason why I don't think they're the best judges of a piece of tech.

I second that! Great handset!

Apple will never in any stretch of the imagination over take Nokia. Apples aim was to shift 10 million handsets in 12 months. Nokia ships about 5 million units a week!

The place I'm working has a shop that I would swear that has a few of these in - will have a nosey next week when it's open again and see

I thought you guys would appreciate this link....!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/...icle1854368.ece



One thing I do miss about these old Nokia's is the astonishing battery life - compared to modern do-it-all handsets. Battery technology is behind the curve right now.


Kazi: Apple WILL overtake Nokia in terms of REVENUE from the iPhone in only a few years. The fact that Nokia have to sell so many handsets to have only 3x Apple's mobile revenue shows that Apple knows how to run a business. THIS is the fact that will have Nokia shaking in their boots.

ONE phone, Apple's FIRST phone, running rings around Nokia's business in just 18 months. Think about it. It's astonishing.

I am looking fwd to the day when all the Windows apologists who love their iPhone realise that their iPhone is in fact a mobile Mac.

This still is my work phone for everyday use!

No other modern phone can really match it for ease of use and high volume of calls which I have to with my work. Just does the job.

Mind also have a blackberry, for emails etc, best phone for business emails, no question!

Yawn, kid yourself all you like, Nokia don't really have anything to fear about. Apple insist on revenue share and networks aren't always so keen to do that. Nokia and the other manufactures just sell them the handset and let the networks worry about subsidies. Apple have a huge way to go before they make a dent in Nokia sales. Think it would also be fair to say that after building up a customer base like Nokia not only making handsets but distributing accessories and building network equipment, their pretty clued up about business and the mobile arena. Its an arrogant assumption Apple knows best!

If I was think about my iPhone before id bought a Mac many years ago, I would have actually had to seriously consider alternatives in the PC field. Comparing it to a computer is fine, if it does what a computer like for like can do. That said, comparing the iPhone to a Blackberry or MS based handset like HTC, the iPhone is just to restricted. It donesn't even support standard services that a very basic 'Nokia' does. A smart phone suddenly isnt so smart after all...no MMS, no customised SMS/Alert/Email tone, no video recording, no video calling, no bluetooth advanced functionality, aesthetics that mark to easy, no voice dialling, no true navigation software, no sms forwarding, no copy n paste function, no MS office editing function, a camera thats to basic, theirs just so much more the iPhone could be....

Best of luck to the iPhone as future models can only get better, until then, I'll continue to have positive things to say about the phone and negative things to say.

[/quote]This still is my work phone for everyday use!

No other modern phone can really match it for ease of use and high volume of calls which I have to with my work. Just does the job.

Mind also have a blackberry, for emails etc, best phone for business emails, no question![/quote]

Agreed, the Blackberry is the best email solution. Had a Blackberry, sold tons of Blackberrys and the customers are very happy with it. It just works, none of this 'Message has not been downloaded' which my iPhone continues to display with various emails!!

Blackberry is king at emailing, 100%!

I know a man who does

Kazi:

a - Not all Apple/Operator deals involve network share.
b - Apple have achieved 1/3 of Nokias mobile revenue after 18 months in the business. With ONE phone and a limited global distribution. And you think Nokia aren't concerned?
c - Nokia THOUGHT they were very clued up about mobile distribution, until Apple came along.
d - Watch this space for when Apple pass Nokia in revenue.
e - mobile manufacturers are in business to make MONEY not to outsell each other in numbers

As an aside, "little niche player Apple" made 50% of Microsofts profits this quarter. Nokia are not the only company who are scared.

I don't have time now to take all of your points, but as an example - MMS.

Think this through.

MMS is an ancient, costly, low-res method of getting awful quality information (pics) from one mobile to another.

Do computers send MMSs?

Appe isn't in the business of using crap technology just because the rest do - they are in the business of moving the world forward and improving things. [They were the first comapny (by miles) to ditch the floppy drive for example. Oh the outrage at the time! My goodness how would we cope!?]

The iPhone uses email to send data to other devices. I heard it's catching on in the computing world. (The iPhone is a computer - more specifically a Mac). It's also FREE. I am well aware that not all phones have email but that will not last - thanks to companies like Apple moving FORWARD and not clinging to the past. People without email on their phones will be left out in the cold as time goes by. Email will filter down to almost all mobile devices shortly and MMS will be a thing of memory.

You cannot compare MMS to email. It is clear which one is better in every way. This is why iPhones uses email and not MMS. Of COURSE they could have put MMS in there, but like I said, Apple just don't DO crap.

Whether you like it or not or believe it or not, the time will come when people look back at the iPhone and see that it was the definitive device that kicked mobile handsets out of the doldrums and moved the industry a few steps further on. No question.

The iPhone's reign is only in its first steps. Apple will already have the next one in full R&D.

****, is this stil goin on? And on and on and on....................

post edited

Yeah 2 really great responses there guys. I can't wait for your next insightful comments.

If you don't like it don't read it.

Can we try and be constructive like everyone else has managed to be?

post edited

Been playing on my sisters boyfriends Iphone this weekend, one of the new ones. Guess what ive found something i like about it. Line rider LoL been playing it all weekend, bit fiddly down to having big fingers, and using pens etc as a stylus thing doesnt work for some reason.

Overal it was an ok phone, but again i still feel its all show, all the menus etc are very nice to flick through, again camera not amazing, internet ok bit faster as on 3g. Had a quick look through the apps which is a masive money swindle some where £20+ and most are just a big waste of time.

I do like the txt message thing where it shows you all the previous in that conversation, but that will be easily and quickly copied. Not being able to forward is a little confusing, is it something they just forgot about, as i forward messages a fair bit ? Tyger I dont get what you mean about the email and mms, if someone hasnt got a phone that can get online or takes ages to download mms is very important, ive used it for work and for play and wouldnt knock it at all.

I have an iPhone 3G and am really pleased with it, but it's not without its faults though.

I have a couple of gripes. firstly the battery life is poo, if you have 3G/wifi switched on all the time. Secondly, for what is supposed to be a premium phone, the fact you can't send/receive MMS' and bluetooth stuff from one phone to another is a major flaw imo, especially as the phone appeals to a lot of younger people like myself.

Fortunatly, that isn't enough to put me off, but i can see why it would others.

Didn't you know Ellz ? Apple aren't too bothered about what people actually *want*, it's about what looks whizzy and will impress people !

Edit - I'm referring specifically to things like "MMS=crap", as implied by Tyger. No disrespect meant to happy iPhone owners.

Thats fine, can't bothered to argue. Its like hitting my head against a brick wall. Think you need a reality check on constructive criticism. As for Apple not doing crap....what hell are they doing then with a half hearted attempt at making a smart phone. Need I say anymore with the points I raised in my previous posts....

Apple have had their fair share of produsts that have flopped, can't see the iPhone flopping but its far far from perfect and no where near 100% to being a smart phone, so as they'd say in the dragons den, "for that reason alone, im out!!"

I could argue with most of your points, but I won't I'll just pick one...



If you cannot compare MMS to email, as you say, why do you then compare MMS to email?

Tell ya what, email is actually better than SMS, yet I wander (maybe you know?) how many SMS messages are sent per day, compared with email (I'm talking from phones here!) Everyone stop txting and email. Suprised the iPhone hasn't ditched that yet.

Also, not everyone is as electronically minded as you. My mother, for example, has just discovered text messaging, though she's had a mobile 15 years! (Techincally the first one could not be removed from the car!)

You are probably correct that in the future all phones will have email. But are you living in the future? I'm not.

I send the occasional MMS, and no, it's not the final say in quality, but it is what it is. A quick and easy way to send a pic to a mate, that, chances are, they will receive almost immediatly. I can send an MMS to most of my friends, though some have email on their phone, the majority of them do not know how to use it, or have the correct setting set up for it to work etc. Email is therefore useless in this case.

Though I expect all of your friends have iPhones or work for Apple or you no longer speak to them, so it may not be a problem to you.

Apple don't not do it because its crap, they don't do it because they don't like to be compatible! Don't get me (or you!) started on iTunes!

Do computers send MMS? What a stupid question. Do computers do SMS and phone calls? No. (Not without additional software and an internet connection, with which, by the way, they can also send MMS!)

I will conceed that in many ways emailing a photo has advantages over MMS. But right here, right now, I would send an MMS, as it is way more likely to be seen by the intended recipient!

Releasing a suposedly top-end phone without support for basic features any £30 handset would have? WHY?

For record the deal was actually 5 years....

However, in France, by the law the handset has to be available sim free after 6 months of being launched.

post edited !!

oh but i do like it bazza...

Edited

Kazi: Umm no. 3 years.

84stoney: Yes you COULD argue with any of my points. That wouldn't make you correct.

Right now I don't have time to reply further so I will leave you with some lovely reading material...

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/18942/
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/...e-tough-economy
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10079539-94.html
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/mos...pshots/670.html
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/...g-on-microsoft/
http://www.entrepreneur.com/technology/new...icle197976.html
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008/pu...023_005500.html

Anyone spot any bad news for Apple? Anyone care to find some?

Anyone still not buying AAPL? Doh.

Edited

Edited