Hi all,

Long time reader - haven't done much posting though!

So i'm considering purchasing an IS220d early next year as a family car that my wife will use 90% of the time. Going to go for a low mileage used one. At least i was until i heard that the car isn't all that great and they have some problems.

Is this true? Should i steer clear of the car? Not all that interested in a 250 due to tax, mpg etc. I genuinely thought buying one of these would be a no-brainer but now i'm confused. Have been a Japanese car buyer for years and they have treated me very well so don't think i want to go German either...

Any advice/comments appreciated folks!

BMW make a better Diesel engine as do Audi/VW IMO. I'm sure some IS220d owners
will be along shortly with the pros/cons. It sounds to me after reading a lot of posts
on the IS220d that you can get a good or bad one re economy.

Hello
I have One and it was one of the first Diesel on a 55 plate, i purchased it in May/june this year with 17thou on the clock
full leather MM system (must have) and i have never had anything Major go wrong.
Lexus called the car back for a Fith Inj mod but it never had had a problem in that dept
all i have had is a Vibrating interior Mirror (which was also the same on the 250)
and a creaking seat which has now been fixed with Modification Bracket kit (so Lexus said)
also they told me the water pump was leaking and replaced it (but that can happen on any car)
One Big complaint is MPG But i Avg 40mpg
which i am happy with mainly Motorway driving
but on the times i have used it around town it goes down to 35MPG

But all in all i am happy with mine
and i think the reason there are more complaints on the 220 is beacause it out sells the 250 in the UK that is
before you all come on moaning at me i see more 220d on the road than 250s

Go for it But make sure it has the Multimedia system
and 17/18" wheels

Regards Matt

Absolutely. Threads like this stir emotions... but not mine any more...look at the recent "nidgemo" threads, them posts are the best summary overall...and make sure she drives it aound town in the rush hour...if she is happy after that then it's right!! Go for a 56 plater with the illuminated boot/fuel release switches by the right knee (and the switches are side by side), or better still one after 57 plate with the slim seat back rests...

As long it has service history and some manufacturers warranty, you don't need to get it from a main dealer - Cargiant at White City in London seem to do them very very cheap, and any gremlins like recalls or coroding alloys will be covered by your local dealer...!!

PS - MM is really good. it's not just a satnav system - the bluetooth, soundsystem and rear camera make it worthwhile on a 2nd hander...

I know I shouldnt be saying this on the forum but have u looked at the honda accord diesel? Before I got the lexus I was after one as its the best diesel I've come across and can do 60mpg.

Yip considered one of those too. But my wife had her heart set on the Lexus. We were always going to get an IS200 but never did...

Does your wife do the miles to justify the extra expense of a diesel? Not all motoring needs are suited to a diesel car - particularly one with particulate filters such as those fitted on the Lexus and newer Audis. If you don't do the longer journeys regularly the filters get clogged and the soot never gets burnt off by the 5th injector and you can get numerous problems. Also diesel is 10% more at the pump. I'd get her an IS250 auto - still cheap to tax and she'll love you for the ease of driving the thing.

Since the introduction of diesel particulate filters on Audis in early 2006 they have had so many complaints of poor mpg, cars going into "limp" mode, poor performance they now do a pre-qualification questionaire for all potential diesel buyers to see whether the car would be suitable for their needs. My wife is currently negotiating the buy back of 2 diesel Audi A4s by Audi Germany and putting the owners into petrol models because they should never have been sold a diesel in the first place - they were doing local trips and low annual mileages and getting crap economy and clogged filters. Newer Skodas are suffering too.

OMG!

dare I say it, for the sake of a few extra tankfulls of fuel (which will also make up for extra road tax) the IS250Auto is a no brainer...

That's very interesting mate. It does annoy me when people insist on a diesel because they think it'll hit their wallet less than a petrol car, without even doing the sums to workout whether it will actually save them money. But I didn't know about all the other problems with doing short mileages in new diesel cars.

One other small but annoying thing that puts me off diesel cars altogether is the fact that every time you fill up, the pump handle is always covered in diesel and makes your hands stink. There is the option of the plastic glove but that's not good for the image either!

i would have another, avg mpg 43,yes new car niggles but 45k miles and 100% reliabilty.as said above your mileage and use will be key factors.as always the weekend test drive is the way to go.

always found the diesel had more oomph than the petrol model, although the petrol model is virtually silent inside.

Like Brighton I planned a second had IS 220 D next year - but reading this site makes me think again. Although, as noted you do't get topic noting satisfied owner has nothing to post. The issues related to the 5 th injector, egr value and 1 & 2 gear, as well as the mpg makes me think I should look at Honda's.

My parameter for success is to spend abou £ 15 k cash and keep for 3 years - I expect that my purchase will be trouble free up to at least 50 k miles and I replace the consumables - tyres, exhaust and pads - but not discs. I do 40 miles per day to work, it looks like the mpg of the 220D will be about the same economy as my current pile of French junk. I'm minded of the 220 D Sport as its a better drive acording to this forum.

Paradroid - where do you go for servicing locally ?

Chevin, you will get a lot for your £15K, if you are in the market for a prestige saloon then in my experience the two to beat are the 320d and A4 2.0tdi. Both are better cars but you will buy older and with less kit.

As for reliability other than me having the EGR replaced, which wasn't a breakdown either then the car should be very good, you also get the 3years Lexus recovery and warrenty so it really is peace of mind.

I think with the prices tumbeling at the moment if you have a cheap car to trade then you could be in for a bargain.

Mine has had an OUTRAGEOUS amount of work done into the £10k plus of parts etc...but is a great car (except in snow) and has just had it's 40k service. Lexus warranty is excellent and, if buying an IS220d, make sure you get a Sport as it has quite a few extra bits and bobs (such as traction based software, better gear ratios etc).

B.

Hi guys,newbie here, I'm really disappointed to hear of all those reliability issues and pretty abysmal fuel consumption from 220d. Had a test drive yesterday in 220d, I was happy apart from lack of power under 2000 rpm.

But the salesman seems keen to sell me 250rs for the same money, now i think I know why.....

I was offered brand new 250RS with auto and MM for £22k, should I take it?

If you're set on an IS then go for the IS250 auto every time over the IS220d. I'd definitely recommend a long weekend test drive in it and everything else before you buy though.

have a look at drive the deal,you could for 22k have the 220d se with mm which will give you full leather seats with electic adjustment and lumber support above the sr spec.

Thanks for the advice guys, think I'll leave the diesel alone. I had a brief drive in the 250auto, which I think was gutless(seems peaky), may be I'm not used to the power delivery, I think I'll brag a 48hr test drive, before I buy one.

Regarding drivethedeal, they don't seem to offer PX(Toyota Prius), and they can't beat the dealer's price of £22k.

I'd never buy through "drivethedeal" - just use their quoted prices to haggle with as a starting point - guaranteed to work every time.

As far as the 250A is concerned - well it ain't no performance saloon - in the same way a 325i has no kit/charisma...but it is very refined and drives how a Lexus is expected to...it has a "waftability" factor that none of the competition or the 220d have...

The Lexus pampers, wheras BMW (and New Merc C) just drive better - that's where their development costs have gone...

You've got to decide whether you want performance and efficiency over subjective/objective luxury and build quality...there's a balance in there somewhere, and from my experience it's actually called Audi

Joking aside, there are the reported foibles with the 220d - gearing, so so economy (even those people getting 40-45 in a 220d will get better than that in a petrol 320i), all those components that have been replaced and replaced again...it just wouldn't fill me with any confidence if the car had fewer months warranty than I was gonna keep it for, if you know what I mean!

If you really really want the Lexus, the 250Auto has got to be the way to go...it just doesn't pretend to be something it's not...

Having just blasted back up the A19 with ECT Power engaged I can confirm that the 250 Auto is not gutless....just flex that right foot big toe.

Sorry, if I seem to have upset you. It was a very brief drive anyway(15mins in 250, and 15 mins in diesel).

Although both my current cars are petrol, I'm predominately a diesel fan(previously owned Merc 300TD, Volvo XC90, Audi 4.0TDI,BMW 530d), I currently have a budget of upto £25k, so choosing a Lexus is a no brainer ( the percieved quality and reliability of Lexus), having driven both cars back to back, the diesel was my choice, but now having read various member's posts, you can imagine my disappointment with the below par economy and reliability of 220d.

I'll be asking the dealer for an extended test drive in the 250...so watch this space

LOL - no of course you haven't upset me.

My point is that if someone is used to the rather abrupt power delivery of the IS220d that comes in at 2000rpm and then stops at 4000rpm, the petrol model is going to feel different.

However, the IS250 has 204bhp and certainly not short of power but the maximum power is delivered after 4000rpm when the variable valve timing comes into its own. The engine is beautifully smooth and will rev easily past the red line without seeming stressed. You put the car into Sport and use the shifters to keep the revs up and the whole character of the car changes - it feels much faster.

I agree, but it also means that you need to work the engine much harder to get any decent power (or rely on the kickdown). In the diesel however you could be driving normally and if you require power to overtake all you do is put your foot down and the power delivery is almost instant. I was honestly quite dissapointed with the engine of the IS250 (in terms of performance, cause it was excellent when it came to refinement and smoothness).

Not quite sure how the engine in the petrol is working harder. I had a diesel 220d and was constantly coming up to the rev limiter at only 4500 rpm. I never need to go near the rev limiter in the petrol. I think I know which one is less stressed.

I've always been a diesel fan - there's nothing quite like a good torque "shove" in a RWD car...however, the Lexus one is beginning to look even more aged and compromised...The forces that are put onto the ISD engine and gearbox must be pretty fierce - all 400NM within a narrow band...and IMHO only the Sport makes any real world sense. But then you pay with high Co2/Company and VED taxes.

I never took mine beyond 3600rpm, as after that it was definitely more noise than momentum...

The ISD non Sport power delivery is just too narrow - if you take a look at some of the new Variable vane turbo D's (Audi and BMW) you see that the power deliver is more linear - from lower rpm and less abrupt. The ISD is just no match for them IMHO. Hopefully the facelift will be better, but we don' t know what they have changed - just that the Co2 drops by 4g/km...it is seriously lagging behind.

As mentioned above, the IS250Auto is better, but it does feel lethargic below 4000 - true VVTi style - ECT or not. You do have to keep your foot down to make any rapid progress...ECT helps, but you shouldn't really need it if you have >100bhp per ton...

The 250 is a wafter car, not a racer...

The GS450h on the hand gives you both

You need a go in a 430 mate....



Why shouldnt you? - the bhp quoted is available at a defined point - therfore you are only going to hit it at those particular revs....

I did drive the SC430 which was vry nice :-) - loads of kick...

As far as the 100bh/ton is concerned - it would be Ok if the defined poiint was at 3000rpm...but in an IS250 it is too far up the range - so you find yourself thrashing it to make good progress...true VVTi style...

What I meant is that, under normal driving conditions, you are never nowhere near the 4000 rpm mark. Therefore if you require suddenly a boost in acceleration, either you wait for the RPM to climb to 4000 or you use the kickdown. On a diesel, you normally drive at 1500 RPM, and if you require that boost then all you do is put your foot down and almost instantly you are within the optimum powerband.

use kickdown vs put foot down........what is the difference ?

With the diesel, you don't feel like you're thrashing it's horlicks off all the time...

In the 250 Auto, it can take some time before you hit 4000rpm, having floored the pedal, waited for it to decide what gear you need etc etc. unless you drive it at high revs all of the time...which means manual flappy paddle mode to get control....then the flappy gearchanges aren't quick enough and it ruins the enjoyment....

the manual 250 just feels lethargic, unless you keep at 4250+RPM...then it feels quick enough...

In the diesel, you just squeeze the pedal and as long as you start at over 1850rpm in 2-4, the power just comes in a silky surge...you don't have to floor it like you do in the 250Auto to get anywhere...and you don't have to change cogs...

Also, in the diesel, if you try doing this at revs lower than 1700 you can at times get nothing..zippo...no go at all...and at roundabouts in the rush hour it is almost dangerous...the boost is either on or off...

You have to keep the revs up and drop the clutch. Towards the end I was doing that at busy intersections, and my clutch was starting to judder when warm...it couldn't take it...only after 20k on the clock...

Like I've said, these are not performance saloons - they need to be driven with a gentle style, in which case the 250A wins - it's a proper Lexus...

Just to add that in the Sport version you rarely fall under the 1700 rpm mark when changing gears sensibly... so the turbo lag is minimized.

What's the economy like on the 220d sport? And the VED cost?

Tax is around £90 more expensive per year than the standard 220d. However if you get a new one (facelift version), apparently the CO2 emissions have dropped considerably in the Sport version (so has the final gear ratio) and it will be the same as the standard model (can't confirm this).

Economy in town is around 30-32 mpg, and 42-44 mpg on the motorway.

The Co2 will be 264g/km on the 2009 model, I believe on all variants.

Current Models 220d 220dSport
Urban (mpg/l/100km) 35.8/7.9 29.7/9.5
Extra urban (mpg/l/100km) 52.3/5.4 45.6/6.2
Combined (mpg/l/100km) 44.8/6.3 38.2/7.4
CO2 Combined (g/km) 168 195

The figures say one thing, but you HAVE TO drive them to appreciate the differences for yourself...

264? Do you mean 164? I am pretty sure I read a brochure that said the Sport version will still have higher CO2 emissions as usual, but much lower than the current one. Basically I think they tweaked the gearbox again to improve economy, seeing that the Sport version was never an option as a company car due to excessive tax.

Sorry - meant 164 and not 264 - typo.

They have probably settled for a different final drive (Diff) as they were different between Sport and non-Sport. Gearbox's were the same AFAIK. May be a new engine Map too? Who knows...

I found the 250 Auto superb to drive, thought it had loads of power and acceleration especially when using the manual option or the paddles.
Is it fast? It depends, if you have been used to driving a car that does 0 to 60 in 10 or 11 seconds you will think it is quick, if on the other hand you are used to getting to 60 in 6 or 7 seconds you may think it is slow.
The car is about more than that, reading road tests many journalists comment that it has a level of refinement the competition cannot match, is this refinement what jamboo refers to as "waftability"?

Oh yes - it is superb! That's where it feels like a GS in many respects...sublime...something that the germans aren't very good at unless you get a S Class, 7er or a CLS possibly...

May be I'm getting old but I've lost the boy racer passion...I just like to be wafted around now - my new car does just that... but the gearchange is not as smooth as the GS's...



Incidentally, I managed to get a drive in the new Honda Accord - it was a 2.0 Auto...I was really impressed overall - not terribly quick but a very good car at the price!! A lot of road noise compared to Accords of old, but it is seriously good. Just too many buttons on the dash...and dare I say it I thought it was marginally better than the new A4...

In your opinion then the new Honda Accord is marginally better than the new A4 which a couple of weeks ago you thought was rubbish! Maybe you are getting old and your memory's going.
A bit slower this time.
What's.......your.......opinion.......of........the........new.........A4