So i have had my ISF for 12 months now and still get a tingle in my tummy when i haven't driven it for a day or two (like when we go for a weekend away in the wife's company car) and i think about driving it at 6am on a sunny morning around the coutry lanes on the way to work (even though i don't start until 9am - it's worth getting up early to have blast.
Anyway, recently i noticed that brake dust had made my wheels rust. I complained to my Lexus dealer who took told me to wash the car after ever trip. They cleaned the wheels as best they could and made quite a good job but within 30 miles they were covered again. After washing and washing i got fed up and complained again. On the side i found out that the only other ISF in the county had the same issues and after protracted complaints evertually got new wheels from Lexus (at an apparent cost of £4k to them) so i continued my ranting and eventually was told i would also get new wheels - haven't got them yet but they are ready for me at the dealership.
When he got his wheels he was told his old ones would be reconditioned and i suspect that i will get his old ones - but i guess so long as they look brand spanking i have no issues.
So my point here is if you are lucky enough to own an ISF and have break dust ruining your wheels - and the bodywork too as the hot metal shards do damage the paintword along the trims under the doors - don't be fobbed off.
if enough of us start claiming new wheels maybe lexus will see sense and fit ceramic disks and pads to stop this most annoying issue.
Has anyone else had this issue? - would love to hear your thoughts
Full Version: Isf Brake Dust Issue
Can't help much with the brake dust issue (except say that it's one that all Lexus's seem to suffer from). One tip when you get your new wheels is to straight away put a few coats of a good quality wheel wax on them - this will make them much easier to clean and also make them more resilient to brake dust. As long as you recoat them every few months it should help prevent the hot brake dust eating into the wheels.
Cleaning wheels after every trip sounds ridiculous, I can't believe they told you to do that to be honest!
Cleaning wheels after every trip sounds ridiculous, I can't believe they told you to do that to be honest!
Brake dust is an issue for me with my IS 300, the two fronts wheels are just covered thick in brake dust after a week.
But if your wheels are begining to rust as a result, then that's not acceptable at all, I mean they have given you 'new' wheels which is great but surely you will be in this same position again 12 months from now??
But if your wheels are begining to rust as a result, then that's not acceptable at all, I mean they have given you 'new' wheels which is great but surely you will be in this same position again 12 months from now??
[quote]So my point here is if you are lucky enough to own an ISF and have break dust ruining your wheels - and the bodywork too as the hot metal shards do damage the paintword along the trims under the doors - don't be fobbed off.
if enough of us start claiming new wheels maybe lexus will see sense and fit ceramic disks and pads to stop this most annoying issue.
Has anyone else had this issue? - would love to hear your thoughts[/quote]
Brake dust on the IS250 and IS220D is a continuing problem in Europe, but in the USA Lexus issued a TSIB (Technical Service Information Bulletin) for the 250 and 350, see my original post [url="http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=41414&hl"]http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...ic=41414&hl[/url]=
Since then I have replaced my IS250 discs with IS350 larger discs and fitted the alternative OEM ceramic based pads available from Lexus USA. No problems with dust at all now.
Not sure whether ceramic pads are available as a direct replacement on the IS-F, but it may be worth checking if the rotors and pads are shared with another model e.g. the IS350 pads and rotors are the same as the GS300 Mk3.
if enough of us start claiming new wheels maybe lexus will see sense and fit ceramic disks and pads to stop this most annoying issue.
Has anyone else had this issue? - would love to hear your thoughts[/quote]
Brake dust on the IS250 and IS220D is a continuing problem in Europe, but in the USA Lexus issued a TSIB (Technical Service Information Bulletin) for the 250 and 350, see my original post [url="http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=41414&hl"]http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...ic=41414&hl[/url]=
Since then I have replaced my IS250 discs with IS350 larger discs and fitted the alternative OEM ceramic based pads available from Lexus USA. No problems with dust at all now.
Not sure whether ceramic pads are available as a direct replacement on the IS-F, but it may be worth checking if the rotors and pads are shared with another model e.g. the IS350 pads and rotors are the same as the GS300 Mk3.
[quote name='Looney' post='679140' date='Jun 30 2009, 12:01 PM']Has anyone else had this issue? - would love to hear your thoughts[/quote]
I've had mine since 1st December (nearly 6,000 miles) and have similar issues although not to the level of needing (yet!) anything replacing.
I read the previous post on this topic at quite an early stage in my ownership of "The Brute" and felt quite smug that I'd had her into the hand-wash guys at least once a week since new - until I looked carefully and found that the lack of gloss on the surfaces between the spokes was not just recent dust but, in fact an engrained layer of particles that felt like an emery board!
I spent many hours that week-end with a Sainsbury's washing-up brush, a pressure washer and a bottle of Autoglym wheel cleaner.
Several patient applications of the wondrous spray, a lot of vigorous brushing and hosing and two well-worn thumb nails later all four wheels looked virtually like new so I rounded off the day with a celebratory coat of (Autoglym again - and no, I'm not on their pay-roll!) wax.
I agree totally that it's wholly impractical to think of hosing down after every use but I do take care now to use the spray and brush technique every week-end and so far it's paying off.
I've had mine since 1st December (nearly 6,000 miles) and have similar issues although not to the level of needing (yet!) anything replacing.
I read the previous post on this topic at quite an early stage in my ownership of "The Brute" and felt quite smug that I'd had her into the hand-wash guys at least once a week since new - until I looked carefully and found that the lack of gloss on the surfaces between the spokes was not just recent dust but, in fact an engrained layer of particles that felt like an emery board!
I spent many hours that week-end with a Sainsbury's washing-up brush, a pressure washer and a bottle of Autoglym wheel cleaner.
Several patient applications of the wondrous spray, a lot of vigorous brushing and hosing and two well-worn thumb nails later all four wheels looked virtually like new so I rounded off the day with a celebratory coat of (Autoglym again - and no, I'm not on their pay-roll!) wax.
I agree totally that it's wholly impractical to think of hosing down after every use but I do take care now to use the spray and brush technique every week-end and so far it's paying off.
Yes, I am sure that a weekly spucing of the wheels will keep them in tip top condition and once I get my new wheels I'll be doing something similar to avoid the build up becoming a problem.
More concerningly is the fact that the other ISF owner told me of the damage to the paintwork. I was smug knowning that i didn't have the issue until I looked closer and saw the pitting was evident from the sills up to half way up the doors and back as far as the rear doors. Sure, a clay bar got it all off but how will this kind of attack leave the paintwork ongoing.
Lexus told us that they do not make ceramic brakes for the ISF - of course what they actually should have said is that Brembo have not been asked to make ceramics - the brakes of course are made by brembo who are quite famous for ceramic brakes.
At 4K apparent cost for new sets of wheels it would make financial sense for them to consider it. As for me fitting aftermarket ceramics, Lexus told me this would invalidate my warranty!.
Thanks for your suggestions - still like to hear from other ISF owners to see if this is more widespread....
(oh and does anyone else have squeaky bed spring syndrome coming from the rear suspension where accelerating...i get squeaks as I accelerate and lift off...Lexus told me this was "normal" and not an issue - but the noise is embarassing on a flag ship motor costing £50K+
More concerningly is the fact that the other ISF owner told me of the damage to the paintwork. I was smug knowning that i didn't have the issue until I looked closer and saw the pitting was evident from the sills up to half way up the doors and back as far as the rear doors. Sure, a clay bar got it all off but how will this kind of attack leave the paintwork ongoing.
Lexus told us that they do not make ceramic brakes for the ISF - of course what they actually should have said is that Brembo have not been asked to make ceramics - the brakes of course are made by brembo who are quite famous for ceramic brakes.
At 4K apparent cost for new sets of wheels it would make financial sense for them to consider it. As for me fitting aftermarket ceramics, Lexus told me this would invalidate my warranty!.
Thanks for your suggestions - still like to hear from other ISF owners to see if this is more widespread....
(oh and does anyone else have squeaky bed spring syndrome coming from the rear suspension where accelerating...i get squeaks as I accelerate and lift off...Lexus told me this was "normal" and not an issue - but the noise is embarassing on a flag ship motor costing £50K+
[quote name='Looney' post='679160' date='Jun 30 2009, 03:43 PM']Yes, I am sure that a weekly spucing of the wheels will keep them in tip top condition and once I get my new wheels I'll be doing something similar to avoid the build up becoming a problem.
More concerningly is the fact that the other ISF owner told me of the damage to the paintwork. I was smug knowning that i didn't have the issue until I looked closer and saw the pitting was evident from the sills up to half way up the doors and back as far as the rear doors. Sure, a clay bar got it all off but how will this kind of attack leave the paintwork ongoing.
Lexus told us that they do not make ceramic brakes for the ISF - of course what they actually should have said is that Brembo have not been asked to make ceramics - the brakes of course are made by brembo who are quite famous for ceramic brakes.
At 4K apparent cost for new sets of wheels it would make financial sense for them to consider it. As for me fitting aftermarket ceramics, Lexus told me this would invalidate my warranty!.
Thanks for your suggestions - still like to hear from other ISF owners to see if this is more widespread....
(oh and does anyone else have squeaky bed spring syndrome coming from the rear suspension where accelerating...i get squeaks as I accelerate and lift off...Lexus told me this was "normal" and not an issue - but the noise is embarassing on a flag ship motor costing £50K+[/quote]
I went on the technical event for the isf and one thing was said is that the brake pads are very soft compound to the point of which they only lasted 10 laps around donnington race circuit i would advise you to keep a close eye on the pad wear before any expensive disc contact also make sure the holes in the disks are not bloked this can cause overheating too
More concerningly is the fact that the other ISF owner told me of the damage to the paintwork. I was smug knowning that i didn't have the issue until I looked closer and saw the pitting was evident from the sills up to half way up the doors and back as far as the rear doors. Sure, a clay bar got it all off but how will this kind of attack leave the paintwork ongoing.
Lexus told us that they do not make ceramic brakes for the ISF - of course what they actually should have said is that Brembo have not been asked to make ceramics - the brakes of course are made by brembo who are quite famous for ceramic brakes.
At 4K apparent cost for new sets of wheels it would make financial sense for them to consider it. As for me fitting aftermarket ceramics, Lexus told me this would invalidate my warranty!.
Thanks for your suggestions - still like to hear from other ISF owners to see if this is more widespread....
(oh and does anyone else have squeaky bed spring syndrome coming from the rear suspension where accelerating...i get squeaks as I accelerate and lift off...Lexus told me this was "normal" and not an issue - but the noise is embarassing on a flag ship motor costing £50K+[/quote]
I went on the technical event for the isf and one thing was said is that the brake pads are very soft compound to the point of which they only lasted 10 laps around donnington race circuit i would advise you to keep a close eye on the pad wear before any expensive disc contact also make sure the holes in the disks are not bloked this can cause overheating too
[quote name='Looney' post='679160' date='Jun 30 2009, 03:43 PM'](oh and does anyone else have squeaky bed spring syndrome coming from the rear suspension where accelerating...i get squeaks as I accelerate and lift off...Lexus told me this was "normal" and not an issue - but the noise is embarassing on a flag ship motor costing £50K+[/quote]
Yes indeed I hear squeaks too - more so under braking than acceleration but strangely only when I have a passenger and it usually sounds to be coming from very close to my left ear!
Yes indeed I hear squeaks too - more so under braking than acceleration but strangely only when I have a passenger and it usually sounds to be coming from very close to my left ear!
[quote name='peco84' post='679168' date='Jun 30 2009, 04:21 PM']I went on the technical event for the isf and one thing was said is that the brake pads are very soft compound to the point of which they only lasted 10 laps around donnington race circuit i would advise you to keep a close eye on the pad wear before any expensive disc contact also make sure the holes in the disks are not bloked this can cause overheating too[/quote]
Interesting comment!
Probably explains why they bite so well but it makes a mockery of the various pre-release test reports which were unanimous in their praise of the fact that there was zero fade even after lap upon lap of high speed running.
Wonder what pads they given for the occasion and why can't we have some of the same?
Interesting comment!
Probably explains why they bite so well but it makes a mockery of the various pre-release test reports which were unanimous in their praise of the fact that there was zero fade even after lap upon lap of high speed running.
Wonder what pads they given for the occasion and why can't we have some of the same?
I guess it is more evident when the window is open. I understand the passenger issue. Mine does the same especially when the right foot is severley used lol..
(note to self...don't take the wife on early morning sundays blasts lol)
(note to self...don't take the wife on early morning sundays blasts lol)
[quote name='weaselwebby' post='679173' date='Jun 30 2009, 04:52 PM'][quote name='peco84' post='679168' date='Jun 30 2009, 04:21 PM']I went on the technical event for the isf and one thing was said is that the brake pads are very soft compound to the point of which they only lasted 10 laps around donnington race circuit i would advise you to keep a close eye on the pad wear before any expensive disc contact also make sure the holes in the disks are not bloked this can cause overheating too[/quote]
Interesting comment!
Probably explains why they bite so well but it makes a mockery of the various pre-release test reports which were unanimous in their praise of the fact that there was zero fade even after lap upon lap of high speed running.
Wonder what pads they given for the occasion and why can't we have some of the same?
[/quote]
My thought were the same but the cars were end result vehicles and the cars obviously were driven very hard the compount on the pads is a fine balance between day to day driving and track use. But that is the reason for the brake dust is due to the track bread compound you will expect brake dust but its also right for lexus to properly protect the wheels. Another thing is to make sure the wheels are installed in the correct position as they are designed to draw air in if they are say on the wrong side this will pull the dust and heat out
Interesting comment!
Probably explains why they bite so well but it makes a mockery of the various pre-release test reports which were unanimous in their praise of the fact that there was zero fade even after lap upon lap of high speed running.
Wonder what pads they given for the occasion and why can't we have some of the same?
[/quote]
My thought were the same but the cars were end result vehicles and the cars obviously were driven very hard the compount on the pads is a fine balance between day to day driving and track use. But that is the reason for the brake dust is due to the track bread compound you will expect brake dust but its also right for lexus to properly protect the wheels. Another thing is to make sure the wheels are installed in the correct position as they are designed to draw air in if they are say on the wrong side this will pull the dust and heat out
[quote name='Looney' post='679140' date='Jun 30 2009, 12:01 PM']So i have had my ISF for 12 months now and still get a tingle in my tummy when i haven't driven it for a day or two (like when we go for a weekend away in the wife's company car) and i think about driving it at 6am on a sunny morning around the coutry lanes on the way to work (even though i don't start until 9am - it's worth getting up early to have blast.
Anyway, recently i noticed that brake dust had made my wheels rust. I complained to my Lexus dealer who took told me to wash the car after ever trip. They cleaned the wheels as best they could and made quite a good job but within 30 miles they were covered again. After washing and washing i got fed up and complained again. On the side i found out that the only other ISF in the county had the same issues and after protracted complaints evertually got new wheels from Lexus (at an apparent cost of £4k to them) so i continued my ranting and eventually was told i would also get new wheels - haven't got them yet but they are ready for me at the dealership.
When he got his wheels he was told his old ones would be reconditioned and i suspect that i will get his old ones - but i guess so long as they look brand spanking i have no issues.
So my point here is if you are lucky enough to own an ISF and have break dust ruining your wheels - and the bodywork too as the hot metal shards do damage the paintword along the trims under the doors - don't be fobbed off.
if enough of us start claiming new wheels maybe lexus will see sense and fit ceramic disks and pads to stop this most annoying issue.
Has anyone else had this issue? - would love to hear your thoughts[/quote]
This is an effect I suppose every ISF owner has noticed. Well, the wheels don't actually rust. They are made of alloy which can't rust. What happens is that the tiny hot ferrous fragments from the discs/pads melt/embed themselves into the black laquer that turns the shiny silver alloys into the colour you see. It is the embedded fragments that rust and make the rims like sandpaper. Also, of course the idiot suggestion to wash them after every trip will do no good and might actually make matters worse. Wax will help some slither off, but hot particles will go through it like butter. Frequent vigorous cleaning is only going to wear the laquer away and make the wheels look worse still. The problems is that your replacements are bound to do the same thing because the particles land at a temperature well above the melting point of the lacquer. So, I think just get the worst off when you wash the car and hope the lacquer hardens with age to reduce the effect.
Anyway, recently i noticed that brake dust had made my wheels rust. I complained to my Lexus dealer who took told me to wash the car after ever trip. They cleaned the wheels as best they could and made quite a good job but within 30 miles they were covered again. After washing and washing i got fed up and complained again. On the side i found out that the only other ISF in the county had the same issues and after protracted complaints evertually got new wheels from Lexus (at an apparent cost of £4k to them) so i continued my ranting and eventually was told i would also get new wheels - haven't got them yet but they are ready for me at the dealership.
When he got his wheels he was told his old ones would be reconditioned and i suspect that i will get his old ones - but i guess so long as they look brand spanking i have no issues.
So my point here is if you are lucky enough to own an ISF and have break dust ruining your wheels - and the bodywork too as the hot metal shards do damage the paintword along the trims under the doors - don't be fobbed off.
if enough of us start claiming new wheels maybe lexus will see sense and fit ceramic disks and pads to stop this most annoying issue.
Has anyone else had this issue? - would love to hear your thoughts[/quote]
This is an effect I suppose every ISF owner has noticed. Well, the wheels don't actually rust. They are made of alloy which can't rust. What happens is that the tiny hot ferrous fragments from the discs/pads melt/embed themselves into the black laquer that turns the shiny silver alloys into the colour you see. It is the embedded fragments that rust and make the rims like sandpaper. Also, of course the idiot suggestion to wash them after every trip will do no good and might actually make matters worse. Wax will help some slither off, but hot particles will go through it like butter. Frequent vigorous cleaning is only going to wear the laquer away and make the wheels look worse still. The problems is that your replacements are bound to do the same thing because the particles land at a temperature well above the melting point of the lacquer. So, I think just get the worst off when you wash the car and hope the lacquer hardens with age to reduce the effect.
[quote name='Looney' post='679140' date='Jun 30 2009, 12:01 PM']So i have had my ISF for 12 months now and still get a tingle in my tummy when i haven't driven it for a day or two (like when we go for a weekend away in the wife's company car) and i think about driving it at 6am on a sunny morning around the coutry lanes on the way to work (even though i don't start until 9am - it's worth getting up early to have blast.
Anyway, recently i noticed that brake dust had made my wheels rust. I complained to my Lexus dealer who took told me to wash the car after ever trip. They cleaned the wheels as best they could and made quite a good job but within 30 miles they were covered again. After washing and washing i got fed up and complained again. On the side i found out that the only other ISF in the county had the same issues and after protracted complaints evertually got new wheels from Lexus (at an apparent cost of £4k to them) so i continued my ranting and eventually was told i would also get new wheels - haven't got them yet but they are ready for me at the dealership.
When he got his wheels he was told his old ones would be reconditioned and i suspect that i will get his old ones - but i guess so long as they look brand spanking i have no issues.
So my point here is if you are lucky enough to own an ISF and have break dust ruining your wheels - and the bodywork too as the hot metal shards do damage the paintword along the trims under the doors - don't be fobbed off.
if enough of us start claiming new wheels maybe lexus will see sense and fit ceramic disks and pads to stop this most annoying issue.
Has anyone else had this issue? - would love to hear your thoughts[/quote]
Try giving them a clean off then a a good coat of WD40 this will help with your problem and make the dust wipe away when cleaning, gives the wheels a nice shine too. Dont forget dont get it on the brakes or they wont work !!
Anyway, recently i noticed that brake dust had made my wheels rust. I complained to my Lexus dealer who took told me to wash the car after ever trip. They cleaned the wheels as best they could and made quite a good job but within 30 miles they were covered again. After washing and washing i got fed up and complained again. On the side i found out that the only other ISF in the county had the same issues and after protracted complaints evertually got new wheels from Lexus (at an apparent cost of £4k to them) so i continued my ranting and eventually was told i would also get new wheels - haven't got them yet but they are ready for me at the dealership.
When he got his wheels he was told his old ones would be reconditioned and i suspect that i will get his old ones - but i guess so long as they look brand spanking i have no issues.
So my point here is if you are lucky enough to own an ISF and have break dust ruining your wheels - and the bodywork too as the hot metal shards do damage the paintword along the trims under the doors - don't be fobbed off.
if enough of us start claiming new wheels maybe lexus will see sense and fit ceramic disks and pads to stop this most annoying issue.
Has anyone else had this issue? - would love to hear your thoughts[/quote]
Try giving them a clean off then a a good coat of WD40 this will help with your problem and make the dust wipe away when cleaning, gives the wheels a nice shine too. Dont forget dont get it on the brakes or they wont work !!
Thanks for the suggestions and interesting points raised here (especially fjcfarrar's comments) . Looks like unless we all get ceramics we are doomed to a live of scrubbing, runbbing and moaning to lexus ... 
I think EBC Green Stuff pads are "low dust". If true, that may help.
[quote name='Looney' post='679315' date='Jul 1 2009, 01:06 PM']Thanks for the suggestions and interesting points raised here (especially fjcfarrar's comments) . Looks like unless we all get ceramics we are doomed to a live of scrubbing, runbbing and moaning to lexus ... [/quote]
Even ceramics might not help that much because they produce even hotter fragments to embed in the lacquer - but at least ones that won't rust. The only solution would be for Lexus to change the airflow so that it all ends up on the inner rim where you can't see it; but I feel sure that is not going to happen. For the meantime, at least the outer rims are good for smoothing a rough fingernail! So far, although the sides of the car get coated in black brake dust, it seems to have cooled off enough not to bite into the paintwork. It must be a labour of love to keep a white ISF looking good though - not that I think they ever did.
On another note, be very careful pulling nose first into highish kerbs in car parks etc when parking
You can't see exactly where they are and they are too low for the sensors sensors to detect. When you back out it tries to rip off the underside of the front skirt whose back edge allows it to silently ride over the kerb but catches with impressive graunching noises when you reverse off. The resulting stretch in the underside of the plastic can be solved by heating up with a hairdryer and propping in position until it cools.
[/quote]Even ceramics might not help that much because they produce even hotter fragments to embed in the lacquer - but at least ones that won't rust. The only solution would be for Lexus to change the airflow so that it all ends up on the inner rim where you can't see it; but I feel sure that is not going to happen. For the meantime, at least the outer rims are good for smoothing a rough fingernail! So far, although the sides of the car get coated in black brake dust, it seems to have cooled off enough not to bite into the paintwork. It must be a labour of love to keep a white ISF looking good though - not that I think they ever did.
On another note, be very careful pulling nose first into highish kerbs in car parks etc when parking
You can't see exactly where they are and they are too low for the sensors sensors to detect. When you back out it tries to rip off the underside of the front skirt whose back edge allows it to silently ride over the kerb but catches with impressive graunching noises when you reverse off. The resulting stretch in the underside of the plastic can be solved by heating up with a hairdryer and propping in position until it cools.
Oh dear, sounds like you know from experience...but neat and novel solution to the kerbing.
for your reference here are the pics of the ISF being loved very much....
[url="http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1528171&postcount=1"]ISF Pics[/url]
for your reference here are the pics of the ISF being loved very much....
[url="http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1528171&postcount=1"]ISF Pics[/url]
[quote name='Looney' post='679472' date='Jul 2 2009, 10:11 AM']for your reference here are the pics of the ISF being loved very much....
[url="http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1528171&postcount=1"]ISF Pics[/url][/quote]
That looks stunning mate, hate these detailing threads as they keep getting me interested........how much did that detail cost if you don't mind my asking?
[url="http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1528171&postcount=1"]ISF Pics[/url][/quote]
That looks stunning mate, hate these detailing threads as they keep getting me interested........how much did that detail cost if you don't mind my asking?
One gorgeous shiny looking machine...... 
The normal rate for the guy for the day was £250 but as he had to travel from London to Hampshire he charged another £50 - actually I offered as i really wanted him to do the work because i had seen other cars Gleam Machine had done and very impressive. Worth it though as only washed the car 3 times since then and it still looks like it did when he finished - well except the whell which look considerably darker and seem to be made entirely of soot collected by every chimney sweep in the country over the last 20 years !!!!
collected by every chimney sweep in the country over the last 20 years !!!!
Full Colour Version: Isf Brake Dust Issue
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