just wondering in the UK or europe, which is considered more of a upper class car? the BMW 3series or the Lexus ISseries

[quote]just wondering in the UK or europe, which is considered more of a upper class car? the BMW 3series or the Lexus ISseries[/quote]

depends on who views you are after

i would say everyone in this club would say lexus
journalists seem to favour the bm
car magazines seem to favour the bm
but then the bm is far more popular (common as muck) so certain people tend to stay with the majority

everyone knows the bm`s - even the unlearned
but lexus is not as well known so looses out on popularity polls

The lexus is chosen by the "thinking man", the *** 3 series is chosen by mostly salesman who can't think for themselves.

most people would say the BMW cos its a BMW

however the lexus is far 'cooler' (thats not me speaking, its what others have said having seen it)

the IS is very unknown in this country, and thats why its less popular - many people dont know it exists!

Over here they sell a 316 and 318 with small engines so they are quite cheap and driven by lots of people. They also sell a 2 litre diesel. You can buy one for Mondeo money.

In Germany for example the 3 series is as common as the ford focus (one of the best selling cars in the UK) so isn't special at all.

A 330 is a good car, a 316 isn't!

[quote name='ricky_is200' date='May 19 2003, 08:19 PM']Over here they sell a 316 and 318 with small engines so they are quite cheap and driven by lots of people. They also sell a 2 litre diesel. You can buy one for Mondeo money.

In Germany for example the 3 series is as common as the ford focus (one of the best selling cars in the UK) so isn't special at all.

A 330 is a good car, a 316 isn't![/quote]
316 and 318 huh....in the states we only have 325, 328, and 330.

anyone got a picture of a new 316 or a 318?

they look the same just with a diddy engine, no climate control, alloys, rear electric windows etc.

Sure the BMW 3-Series looks ok, is well made, and drives well. However in the UK, for every one Lexus (of any type) sold, BMW sell thirty-seven 3-Series cars. That means the 3-Series are everywhere, which for my money doesn't make them exclusive or classy

[quote name='ricky_is200' date='May 19 2003, 09:57 PM']they look the same just with a diddy engine, no climate control, alloys, rear electric windows etc.[/quote]
That diddy engine that is actually the same size as our IS200s !!!

In fairness - the BMW is considered a higher status car than the Lexus, but the people here generally choose the Lexus as they offer good value for money, don't suffer from the image problems that the circa £20k BMWs suffer from, and are less common. Plus being Japanese you get great reliability.

[quote]That diddy engine that is actually the same size as our IS200s !!![/quote]

dont we get two extra spark plugs though

i thought the 316 had a 1.8 litre engine.....it does over here

then the 318 has the 2.0

Yep - ours is a 6 cylinder 2.0 .... the 318 has 4 cylinder 2.0 litre engine.....

The 316 is indeed 1.8, you are right ..... originally it was planned to grow in 2001/02 when the range was revised and more standard kit included ....... though it is now that they are finally realising that the cars should have more kit - starting to finally spec them up a bit more now!

Interestingly the 2.0 Diesel is more powerful than both the BMW and Lexus 2.0 petrol engines - not just torque either - actual performance stats!!!

I am not a closset BMW fan - I don't like the image - but I won't say they are a poor car when they are not. The 320dES is a very good car and good value too - especially when you consider residuals.

BMW have to be admired.

they have managed to make a mass market product, with high volume sales - yet managed to convince people they are exclusive.

[quote name='Matthew_McNally' date='May 20 2003, 12:56 AM']BMW have to be admired.

they have managed to make a mass market product, with high volume sales - yet managed to convince people they are exclusive.[/quote]
very true

they been perfecting there product for years

and i aint a fan of the 3, 5 and 7 series or z3

like the 330Ci and convertible and love the X5

I don't know if the IS 300's imported to the states are limited in number. However while shopping for a 2002 or 2003 used IS 300, I found that every nice one that came in was almost immediately sold. You had to be on a list or almost be there when the car was traded to even find one. I guess that makes it sort of exclusive. When I first got mine, I drove 700 miles from Ohio to Alabama and never even saw another one on the road.

Dare I post on this topic

I feel the Lexus is a much more prestigious car, I really miss driving mine. People look at a Lexus, where as with a BMW it just seems to be another car, the Lexus name wins every time.

As Sammy said the 320dES is a good car (mine is still on order) but I sure miss my Lex

I have to ask.... have you seen the new 5-series... its ugly.

The reason BMW have managed to have mass-market appeal and still remain 'exclusive' is due to its wide range, offering high performance saloons, and ultimate luxury (750iL).

A lot of people count heritage as important in a car's status.. of which Lexus has none... but give it time, it's [relativley] rare, and before long it'll be up there with BMW, Mercedes and Audi in everyone's opnion....

[quote name='JOHNNY-BOY' date='May 20 2003, 06:50 AM']but I sure miss my Lex [/quote]
there there John

/matt pats Johnny Boy on the back.

As someone who converted from a BMW 320 to a Lexus I would say that the BMW seems more thought out, better ergonomics, classier interior and smarter looking.

The Lexus on the other hand is awesome value for money, very well built and extremely reliable. It does suffer from anonymous looks (have I opened a can of worms here???), an interior that clashes and a general lack of attention to detail that seems to affect all jap cars.

Overall I was cheesed off by the attitude of BMW dealers and I cant say I have regrets about my IS200 SE. However I WOULD prefer a 330 Ci if I could afford 32k and wait for 6 months.

I think what it boils down to is individuality as much as anything.

BMW drivers are after a work horse, respected, people know what they are, simple but useable lay out, with not too much cost but with options to spend that bit more and get air con, cd changer etc.

A lexus on the other hand is for those who like to be individual - have a nice spec as std.

Some people may not know what a Lexus is or looks like, but they know what a BMW looks like.

I wish Lexus did a diesel for the IS200 though, having been in an Audi A6 Diesel and BMW 530d I was surprised at the quiet ride with no Diesel Clatter audible in the cabin. So if they can do it then I'm sure Lexus can. Then we'd get much better MPG

now THATS how you open a can of worms!

there's nothing wrong with diesels...

Nothing wrong with diesels, just try the 150BHP Deisel Golf and it will change your mind about them.

BMW - German Cortinas/Focus with the top of the range ones bringing the exclusivity feeling

Lexus - Exclusive but too new to outgrow the "Posh Toyota" badge it gets labled with.

There's a new BMW 330 Coupe diesel on the way - due here in spring 2004. 204bhp and 410Nm of torque will give the manual a 0-60 time of just 7.2s (with the auto only .2s behind that), so it'll show my '300 a clean pair of heels...

Then I turn to the latest JD Powers survey. BMW owners rated their 3-series worse than the Lexus for mechanical reliability, interior quality, exterior quality, interior appeal and exterior appeal. Guess it's not all about out & out speed

which is why I want a Lex diesel. were there some rumours about that? any inside news?

I personally think you get more for the money with Lexus. Most things like the decent stereo etc come as standard, with a BMW they seem to charge extra for everything and anything...

[quote name='UKPulse' date='May 20 2003, 07:42 PM']There's a new BMW 330 Coupe diesel on the way - due here in spring 2004. 204bhp and 410Nm of torque will give the manual a 0-60 time of just 7.2s (with the auto only .2s behind that), so it'll show my '300 a clean pair of heels... [/quote]
My E270 diesel has 420Nm torque @1800rpm, certainly makes for effortless cruising without having to rev it like you do the IS200.

Mind you I had to pay extra to have a CD player!

[quote name='Unity_neil' date='May 20 2003, 06:56 PM']which is why I want a Lex diesel. were there some rumours about that? any inside news? [/quote]
I read some where that Lexus are developing a diesel with the help of BMW, if so then it should be fairly good.

I recently swapped by BMW 318iSE for a Lexus IS 200.

Wow, what a car, love it.

Knocks spots off the BMW, for comfort, drive e.t.c

[quote]I recently swapped by BMW 318iSE for a Lexus IS 200[/quote]

good man!!