Damn, just got a phone call from Lexus Leeds, they say that the Black Chrome Headlight i ordered wont be here at all, cause Lexus UK say it is not Legal to use those Headlight in the UK, so Lexus Leeds cant get it for me now, it this true? so where did you guys get your from? any information will help...thank

Don't know where everyone got them from but you can try these two:

[url="http://www.is300.net/store/customer/home.php?cat=13"]http://www.is300.net/store/customer/home.php?cat=13[/url]
[url="http://www.i-m-racing.com/lightinghid.html"]http://www.i-m-racing.com/lightinghid.html[/url]

Having read that post, I just checked on the order status I had through Lexus Croydon... guess what - they've also been 'unordered' by Lexus GB too

Gunna have to import them too now...

I'm confused???

Why are they illegal??

[quote name='Fidgits' date='May 27 2003, 01:02 PM']I'm confused???

Why are they illegal??[/quote]

Maybe the light spread is configured for left-hand drive?

...just speculation...

[quote name='NigeSt' date='May 27 2003, 02:13 PM'][quote name='Fidgits' date='May 27 2003, 01:02 PM'] I'm confused??? 

Why are they illegal??[/quote]

Maybe the light spread is configured for left-hand drive?

...just speculation... [/quote]
But there from Japan.... and their cars are RHD too???? [img]http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/html/emoticons/fish.gif[/img]

[quote name='Fidgits' date='May 27 2003, 01:16 PM']But there from Japan.... and their cars are RHD too???? [/quote]

OK, scrub that theory then

Think the reason is those Black Chrome Headlight dont have Leveling ( if i say this right ) and make it Illegal over here...

Also Kavey, it cost around $550 for those headlight if imported from Japen, alots more than from UK Lexus Dealer...CRY CRY CRY

[quote name='Maz' date='May 27 2003, 04:31 PM']Think the reason is those Black Chrome Headlight dont have Leveling ( if i say this right ) and make it Illegal over here...[/quote]
They don't have the electric leveling... but neither do Fiesta's!!!

You can manually adjust the lights... just like almost every other car on the UK roads.

Then i have no idea why they are Illegal over here....CRY CRY CRY

[quote name='Maz' date='May 27 2003, 04:35 PM']Then i have no idea why they are Illegal over here....CRY CRY CRY [/quote]
Niether do I... My car was at the dealer last week, and all he said was 'nice lights' and 'where did you get them'.

I very much doubt that they are illegal, as they are a standard fit, and have absolutley no 'real' changes over the UK spec ones...

[quote name='Fidgits' date='May 27 2003, 04:34 PM'][quote name='Maz' date='May 27 2003, 04:31 PM'] Think the reason is those Black Chrome Headlight dont have Leveling ( if i say this right ) and make it Illegal over here...[/quote]
They don't have the electric leveling... but neither do Fiesta's!!!

You can manually adjust the lights... just like almost every other car on the UK roads.[/quote]
O yes they do, All Fords have been fitted with headlight adjustment switch Since 1999MY. If fact all cars sold new in the UK since that date should have Electric leveling. I will find out the exact date tomorrow when I'm back at work.

Legal Requirement, headlights must have electrical adjustment switch (4 different positions) is the norm, If you don't have this fitted then when it comes to your MOT, you will be issued with a FAILURE ticket.

Trouble is.. you guys have been chatting about these in public and now Lexus see these are becoming a fashion item

because they are illegal they are placing a stop on all orders.

this is the reason for the gold forums.. if you are getting discount on these parts then i sugest you chat about these products on the gold forums where members of Lexus (GB) cannot read your posts.

[quote name='Risky3301' date='May 27 2003, 06:13 PM']Legal Requirement, headlights must have electrical adjustment switch (4 different positions) is the norm, If you don't have this fitted then when it comes to your MOT, you will be issued with a FAILURE ticket.[/quote]
Oh

What to do???

[quote name='Fidgits' date='May 27 2003, 06:29 PM'][quote name='Risky3301' date='May 27 2003, 06:13 PM']
Legal Requirement, headlights must have electrical adjustment switch (4 different positions) is the norm, If you don't have this fitted then when it comes to your MOT, you will be issued with a FAILURE ticket.[/quote]
Oh

What to do??? [/quote]
Find a blind MOT man,

i would see what happens.. hope you have not bunged your old lights mate!

[quote name='Risky3301' date='May 27 2003, 05:13 PM']Legal Requirement, headlights must have electrical adjustment switch (4 different positions) is the norm, If you don't have this fitted then when it comes to your MOT, you will be issued with a FAILURE ticket.[/quote]
You might be right for UK spec cars, but for my Altezza, which has 'manual' lights anyway, mine passed MOT without any problems... (well apart from slightly high emissions, but they let that fly )

[quote name='Administrator' date='May 27 2003, 06:43 PM']i would see what happens.. hope you have not bunged your old lights mate![/quote]
No.... still got them...

It's just they look the D's B's.... so choices are:

1. Change back to standard and sell JDM...
2. Carry on with them, knowing what I now know, changing them back for MOT?

I really don't like the idea of driving around with illegal lights on

[quote name='Fidgits' date='May 27 2003, 06:21 PM'][quote name='Administrator' date='May 27 2003, 06:43 PM'] i would see what happens.. hope you have not bunged your old lights mate![/quote]
No.... still got them...

It's just they look the D's B's.... so choices are:

1. Change back to standard and sell JDM...
2. Carry on with them, knowing what I now know, changing them back for MOT?

I really don't like the idea of driving around with illegal lights on [/quote]
not illegal for me

But they look soooooooooooooooooooo good

[quote]But they look soooooooooooooooooooo good[/quote]

you are right, they look cool

i would just leave them on until MOT time then swap them over
as for driving illegally as long as they are adjusted right cant see a problem
i have carried different loads and never thought about adjusting them

then destroy this post so that no one knows what you have done

[quote name='Administrator' date='May 27 2003, 05:20 PM']Trouble is.. you guys have been chatting about these in public and now Lexus see these are becoming a fashion item

because they are illegal they are placing a stop on all orders.

this is the reason for the gold forums.. if you are getting discount on these parts then i sugest you chat about these products on the gold forums where members of Lexus (GB) cannot read your posts.[/quote]
Maybe, but I think it's also more like Lexus GB trying to stop grey imports.

Given they are Toyota parts with a Toyota part number, might it be worth trying to order them through Toyota? Would a Toyota dealer still give us discount?

OK - CAN EVERYONE CALM DOWN.

Flippin heck - I honestly don't know where you get your info from. Try BACKING your information up with related subject matter material that is "FACTUAL".

First and foremost - these lights are NOT illegal because of aim at all. I cannot believe anyone on this forum has not owned a car without electric adjustment. There are cars still being produced today that don't have electric levelling. It is not law (I have found the lighting regulation pages below), and it certainly isn't required for MOT purposes. Second of all, your MOT requires your beam to be angled in a particular fashion. I am not going to go in to detail on this - but I will give you a link to an MOT Manual, and regulations and you can read them to your hearts content. Thirdly, I am not sure if they carry an approval mark or a British Standard mark, which is the only thing they COULD fail you for, but I have yet to ever come across a tester who has checked every light unit on my car for these symbols (and imports don't have them, so how do they pass?). Also, they have a section for headlamps WITHOUT these symbols and I have pulled out some info for you below covering this...

Some Highlights:

[i]Alignment-
When a vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of 75 kg on the driver's seat, and any manual headlamp levelling device control is set to the stop position, the alignment of every dipped-beam headlamp shall, as near as practicable, be as follows:
(a) In the case of a vehicle having a maximum speed exceeding 25 mph-

(i) If the dipped-beam headlamp bears an approval mark its aim shall be set so that the horizontal part of the cut-off of the beam pattern is inclined downwards as indicated by the vehicle manufacturer in a marking on the vehicle, as mentioned in sub-paragraph 12( B ) or, where no such marking is provided-

(A) 1.3 per cent if the height of the centre of the headlamp is not more than 850 mm above the ground, or

( B ) 2 per cent if the height of the centre of the headlamp is more than 850 mm above the ground;

(ii) [b]If the dipped-beam headlamp does not bear an approval mark and the headlamp can also be used as a main-beam headlamp [/b]its aim shall be set so that the centre of the main-beam pattern is horizontal or inclined slightly below the horizontal;

(iii) If the dipped-beam headlamp does not bear an approval mark and the headlamp cannot also be used as a main-beam headlamp its aim shall be set so as not to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road;[/i]

On a final note, Si Skippy (who previously had these lights) got his lights straightened up at his local MOT station and there were NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.

[url="http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_160.htm"]MOT MANUAL LINK SECTION 1.6 HEADLAMP AIM[/url]

[url="http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_7.htm"]Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations[/url] (There are 4 Pages)

Zee.

Here, Here,
Well said Zee

Phew... thanks Zee....

I was worried for a bit there....

damn
cheers zee you have scuppered my plans of buying a cheap set of black lights

have to start a new rumour:
those superchargers make you blind !!!!!!!!!!!

whats the deal with hid (is300 ) headlight's do they have to have auto leveling?

HID yes

is there an easy way of converting the manual leveling to auto??

sorry if this has already been discussed done search can't find anything

if you buy the IS300 HID headlamps and want to put them on and IS200, do you just remove the old ones, and connect the new ones in, or is it not that simple?

is it the same with US IS300 headlamps?

Zee,so were cool then yeah

can you MOT me car in sept for me then.

no not that simple if auto leveling is compulsary as is200 only has manual leveling

[b]bazza Posted on May 27 2003, 09:23 PM [/b]
[quote]cheers zee you have scuppered my plans of buying a cheap set of black lights[/quote]

You can always take em apart and spray em black or red?

if these lights are from lexus anyway, why don't they have the levelling function?
(even though it is irrelevant here, i was just curious)

surely they're just the same lights off all our cars with a bit of the surround in a different colour

i would hazard a guess that the wiring loom is different as i think the 300 has sensors at the front and rear of the car to find it's level

[quote name='Parthiban' date='May 27 2003, 10:22 PM']if these lights are from lexus anyway, why don't they have the levelling function?
(even though it is irrelevant here, i was just curious)

surely they're just the same lights off all our cars with a bit of the surround in a different colour  [/quote]
The JDM Black Chrome headlamps that this thread was originally discussing DOES have both height levelling and left/right adjustments albeit manual rather than the the one from inside your vehicle.

HID's must AUTO-level, and as far as I'm aware, these will not auto-level in your IS200.

[quote name='Parthiban' date='May 27 2003, 09:22 PM']if these lights are from lexus anyway, why don't they have the levelling function?
(even though it is irrelevant here, i was just curious)

surely they're just the same lights off all our cars with a bit of the surround in a different colour [/quote]
They are not from Lexus. To clarify:[list]
[*]Black Chrome lamps: Japanese Toyota Item for Altezza (not IS200, but they fit) - No electric levelling requirement in Japan, thus manual trim controls on lamp.
[*]Normal IS200 lamps: UK Lexus item, electric levelling
[*]HID Lamps: IS300, must have levelling due to beam intensity.
[/list]Does anyone actually know if the IS300 lamps will fit in the 200 lamp bay?

KV

[quote name='Zee007' date='May 27 2003, 08:09 PM']OK - CAN EVERYONE CALM DOWN. 

Flippin heck - I honestly don't know where you get your info from.  Try BACKING your information up with related subject matter material that is "FACTUAL".

First and foremost - these lights are NOT illegal because of aim at all.  I cannot believe anyone on this forum has not owned a car without electric adjustment.  There are cars still being produced today that don't have electric levelling.  It is not law (I have found the lighting regulation pages below), and it certainly isn't required for MOT purposes.  Second of all, your MOT requires your beam to be angled in a particular fashion.  I am not going to go in to detail on this - but I will give you a link to an MOT Manual, and regulations and you can read them to your hearts content.  Thirdly, I am not sure if they carry an approval mark or a British Standard mark, which is the only thing they COULD fail you for, but I have yet to ever come across a tester who has checked every light unit on my car for these symbols (and imports don't have them, so how do they pass?).  Also, they have a section for headlamps WITHOUT these symbols and I have pulled out some info for you below covering this...

Some Highlights:

[i]Alignment-
When a vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of 75 kg on the driver's seat, and any manual headlamp levelling device control is set to the stop position, the alignment of every dipped-beam headlamp shall, as near as practicable, be as follows:
    (a)  In the case of a vehicle having a maximum speed exceeding 25 mph-

(i)  If the dipped-beam headlamp bears an approval mark its aim shall be set so that the horizontal part of the cut-off of the beam pattern is inclined downwards as indicated by the vehicle manufacturer in a marking on the vehicle, as mentioned in sub-paragraph 12( B ) or, where no such marking is provided-

(A)  1.3 per cent if the height of the centre of the headlamp is not more than 850 mm above the ground, or

( B )  2 per cent if the height of the centre of the headlamp is more than 850 mm above the ground;

(ii)  [b]If the dipped-beam headlamp does not bear an approval mark and the headlamp can also be used as a main-beam headlamp [/b]its aim shall be set so that the centre of the main-beam pattern is horizontal or inclined slightly below the horizontal;

(iii)  If the dipped-beam headlamp does not bear an approval mark and the headlamp cannot also be used as a main-beam headlamp its aim shall be set so as not to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road;[/i]

On a final note, Si Skippy (who previously had these lights) got his lights straightened up at his local MOT station and there were NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.

[url="http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_160.htm"]MOT MANUAL LINK SECTION 1.6 HEADLAMP AIM[/url]

[url="http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_7.htm"]Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations[/url] (There are 4 Pages)

Zee.[/quote]
You asked for the Facts. The facts or Law on Lighting is detailed below,

You need to read up European Whole Vehicle Type Approval to directive 70/156/EEC including 98/14/EC and ECE regulations.

Lighting Installations
76/756/EEC/-87/28/EC
ECE R48 - .01

Just a brief summary.
The above reg detail How, what you need to do as Motor manufacture to be able to sell and use a motor vehicle in the UK and main land Europe, there are some exemptions but not for likes of Toyota or Lexus or any other large volume main stream manufacturer.

All headlights must be 'E' mark this shows that the component has been tested and approved completely separate from the vehicle. Most Headlight produced outside of EU will not be 'E' Mark, the regs also detail how the lights should be adjusted using 3 different types of controls from inside the vehicle

Dial, switch
Slide left to right, Horizontal, switch
Slide up and down Vertical, switch

They is no mention of manual controls outside the vehicle.

If these headlight's meet all of the above then they are legal to use on UK roads
If not then they are not legal to use on UK roads.

Remember you can do what ever you like to you car, don't forget when the worst happens Mr Insurance Company is always looking for a 'Get out Jail Free Card'

[quote name='Risky3301' date='May 28 2003, 11:08 PM']You asked for the Facts. The facts or Law on Lighting is detailed below,

You need to read up European Whole Vehicle Type Approval to directive 70/156/EEC including 98/14/EC and ECE regulations.

Lighting Installations
76/756/EEC/-87/28/EC
ECE R48 - .01

Just a brief summary.
The above reg detail How, what you need to do as Motor manufacture to be able to sell and use a motor vehicle in the UK and main land Europe, there are some exemptions but not for likes of Toyota or Lexus or any other large volume main stream manufacturer.

All headlights must be 'E' mark this shows that the component has been tested and approved completely separate from the vehicle. Most Headlight produced outside of EU will not be 'E' Mark, the regs also detail how the lights should be adjusted using 3 different types of controls from inside the vehicle

Dial, switch
Slide left to right, Horizontal, switch
Slide up and down Vertical, switch

They is no mention of manual controls outside the vehicle.

If these headlight's meet all of the above then they are legal to use on UK roads
If not then they are not legal to use on UK roads.

Remember you can do what ever you like to you car, don't forget when the worst happens Mr Insurance Company is always looking for a 'Get out Jail Free Card'[/quote]
Great stuff mate - nice to see some factual information.

For those who are interested in the information below, I have searched the internet and found the pages discussed here:

[url="http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=en&numdoc=31976L0756&model=guichett"]European Lighting Directive[/url]

I have not challenged the marking on the headlamps at all. As I stated oin my earlier post, this is one thing that may cause these lights to fail (although, imports get through, and I have not checked my lamps close enough to see if they are 'E' marked).

Regarding light adjustment, all I found was:

[i]4.2.5. Geometric visibility
>PIC FILE= "T9000958"> Within this field, almost the whole of the light-emitting surface of the lamp must be visible.
The presence of panels or other items of equipment near the light must not give rise to secondary effects causing discomfort to other road users.
4.2.6. Alignment 4.2.6.1. The vertical inclination of the dipped beam shall be measured under static conditions and all the loading conditions defined in Appendix 1. In the "unladen vehicle" state with one person in the driving seat, the initial vertical downwards inclination shall be between 1 and 1 75 %. It must then remain between 0 75 and 2 75 % without manual adjustment.
[b]The initial adjustment for each type of vehicle must be expressly laid down by the manufacturer and must be indicated on a plate on each vehicle. [/b]
4.2.6.2. The preceding condition may be satisfied by means of a device acting on the relative position of the headlamp and the vehicle. In the case of this device failing the beam must not return to a position less inclined downwards than its position at the time of failure of the device. 4.2.6.2.1. The device mentioned in 4.2.6.2 must be automatic.
[b]4.2.6.2.2. Devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or through a series of positions, shall nevertheless be permitted, provided that they have a stop position where the lamps can be put back to the initial alignment defined in [/b]4.2.6.1 by means of the usual adjusting screws. These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driving seat. Continuously adjustable devices must have reference marks indicating the main loading conditions.
The number of positions on adjustable devices operating with a series of positions must be such as to ensure compliance, starting from an initial downwards inclination of between 1 and 1 75 %, with the range of values between 0 75 and 2 75 % for the loading conditions defined in Appendix 1. For these devices, the loading conditions shall be clearly marked near the control of the device. [/i]

I have highlighted two sections which to me say manual adjustment is allowed (I have read the whole directive). Unless you can help me out, I think the black chrome lights are legal (from a beam and adjustment stand point).

Zee

[quote name='Zee007' date='May 30 2003, 10:25 PM'][quote name='Risky3301' date='May 28 2003, 11:08 PM'] You asked for the Facts. The facts or Law on Lighting is detailed below,

You need to read up European Whole Vehicle Type Approval to directive 70/156/EEC including 98/14/EC and ECE regulations.

Lighting Installations
76/756/EEC/-87/28/EC
ECE R48 - .01

Just a brief summary.
The above reg detail How, what you need to do as Motor manufacture to be able to sell and use a motor vehicle in the UK and main land Europe, there are some exemptions but not for likes of Toyota or Lexus or any other large volume main stream manufacturer.

All headlights must be 'E' mark this shows that the component has been tested and approved completely separate from the vehicle. Most Headlight produced outside of EU will not be 'E' Mark, the regs also detail how the lights should be adjusted using 3 different types of controls from inside the vehicle

Dial, switch
Slide left to right, Horizontal, switch
Slide up and down Vertical, switch

They is no mention of manual controls outside the vehicle.

If these headlight's meet all of the above then they are legal to use on UK roads
If not then they are not legal to use on UK roads.

Remember you can do what ever you like to you car, don't forget when the worst happens Mr Insurance Company is always looking for a 'Get out Jail Free Card'[/quote]
Great stuff mate - nice to see some factual information.

For those who are interested in the information below, I have searched the internet and found the pages discussed here:

[url="http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=en&numdoc=31976L0756&model=guichett"]European Lighting Directive[/url]

I have not challenged the marking on the headlamps at all. As I stated oin my earlier post, this is one thing that may cause these lights to fail (although, imports get through, and I have not checked my lamps close enough to see if they are 'E' marked).

Regarding light adjustment, all I found was:

[i]4.2.5. Geometric visibility
>PIC FILE= "T9000958"> Within this field, almost the whole of the light-emitting surface of the lamp must be visible.
The presence of panels or other items of equipment near the light must not give rise to secondary effects causing discomfort to other road users.
4.2.6. Alignment 4.2.6.1. The vertical inclination of the dipped beam shall be measured under static conditions and all the loading conditions defined in Appendix 1. In the "unladen vehicle" state with one person in the driving seat, the initial vertical downwards inclination shall be between 1 and 1 75 %. It must then remain between 0 75 and 2 75 % without manual adjustment.
[b]The initial adjustment for each type of vehicle must be expressly laid down by the manufacturer and must be indicated on a plate on each vehicle. [/b]
4.2.6.2. The preceding condition may be satisfied by means of a device acting on the relative position of the headlamp and the vehicle. In the case of this device failing the beam must not return to a position less inclined downwards than its position at the time of failure of the device. 4.2.6.2.1. The device mentioned in 4.2.6.2 must be automatic.
[b]4.2.6.2.2. Devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or through a series of positions, shall nevertheless be permitted, provided that they have a stop position where the lamps can be put back to the initial alignment defined in [/b]4.2.6.1 by means of the usual adjusting screws. These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driving seat. Continuously adjustable devices must have reference marks indicating the main loading conditions.
The number of positions on adjustable devices operating with a series of positions must be such as to ensure compliance, starting from an initial downwards inclination of between 1 and 1 75 %, with the range of values between 0 75 and 2 75 % for the loading conditions defined in Appendix 1. For these devices, the loading conditions shall be clearly marked near the control of the device. [/i]

I have highlighted two sections which to me say manual adjustment is allowed (I have read the whole directive). Unless you can help me out, I think the black chrome lights are legal (from a beam and adjustment stand point).

Zee[/quote]
Zee, What I have quoted came from a 'Jesus' in the world of 'European Whole Vehicle Type Approval'

The adjustment you quote is the standard headlight adjustment; this is totally different from the adjustment from inside the car. The only way a car manufacturer can avoid fitting the auto leveling adjustment is by having fully automatic rear suspension adjustment, i.e. to keep the vehicle at a predetermine position regards of weight in the rear of the vehicle.

Don't quote me on this, I am sure that all imports must have a 'European Whole Vehicle Type Approval' certificate before they can driven on UK roads, this means certain mods need to carried out i.e. Headlights, Speedo changes etc before the certificate can be issue.

E Marking. Again a legal requirement that said. I would a bet week’s wages that if you went into 10 different MOT stations not one would fail a vehicle for lights not being E Marked.

I personally like the Black Chrome Headlights but I have couple issues with them apart from the legal side.

Are they made in the good old US of A if yes then quality would be an issue as the they have much lower expectations on quality.

I would only buy Genuine Toyota parts from the USA and only interior parts. Slightly I will admit to ordering 2 such parts for my soon to be delivered IS200 sport.

If they are a genuine Toyota/Lexus Part why aren’t there offered here in UK, E marking in not that expensive (small tooling change for E-marking), passing the test could be the issue. The 'LUX' value could be so low that they would never pass the component testing that's required for Europe and the UK. This could why they don't have the auto leveling feature so that they cannot be used in the UK etc.

Hey Dark, i just ordered my from Japan, and is genuine Toyota/Lexus Part, and it work out a bit cheaper than from UK Lexus dealer if they allow to sell it. (not adding duty and tax yet)

there a genuin toyota part,

there not sold by UK dealers for the same reason 90% of jap toyota parts are not sold, there doesnt seam to be the market for the parts.

i had to do a special order for a rear spoiler nearly 2 years ago......it was a toyota art number, but it was got from japan, if it has a number it can be ordered, mostly its down to wether the dealer wants to go through the hassel of a special order

[quote name='Fidgits' date='May 28 2003, 04:33 AM']But they look soooooooooooooooooooo good  [/quote]
I agree....that's why I ordered them when I purhased the IS