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Thats great!

[color=gray]"rob me will you!"[/color]

thats one way of dealing with em........

check out the vote stats on whether he should face charges or not!!!!

fairly decisive I think !!!

I'ld love to have seen they're faces lol....

That man deserves a pat on the back and a beer, nice one

but in the UK, you would go to jail without parole and have nothing to eat but a pair of Zee's old undies

put the law back into the populations hands......Vote Mat

This reminds me of the 'Tony Martin' case.

The guy living in a remote farmhouse who got burgled.
Shot at 2 burglers inside his house as they were ransacking it.
Killed one but not the other.

Then Mr Martin gets a life sentence and is branded 'a danger to the public'
Well i'd suggest he's a 'danger to the public when they're burgling his house'

And the latest... the surviving burgler (with criminal record stretching twice round the globe) ...
has been given leave to sue the farmer who's house he was burgling for 'trauma, stress, loss of earnings etc'.
And no doubt WE will be paying the bill for him to pursue his claim through legal aid.

[rant]

Am i alone in thinking things are rather screwed up in this country ?
It's very clear that we have 'Courts of LAW' - that's technical law ...
'Justice' just doesn't come into the equation.

/[rant]

****** em all..........its going down the pan, and theres no real escape..............


whois up for it, a brave new world...............underground, we can start all over again.....all over again.....all over again

cue War of the Worlds music.....

........oh nathanial........oh oh nathanial...it doesnt have to be this way..............

That's a rather high pitched voice you've got there matt!

He's trapped himself in his flies again

Didn't Tony Martin shoot them running away - in the back! That's not self-defence...

It's a grey area... who do you believe...

But how would you feel for being done for GBH for hitting a burglar with a bat, when you were just protecting yourself & family...

It just seems wrong to me that criminals can sue their victims for protecting themselves

[/rant]

[quote name='Supracharged-IS340' date='Jun 17 2003, 10:02 AM']but in the UK, you would go to jail without parole and have nothing to eat but a pair of Zee's old undies[/quote]

[quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 17 2003, 03:09 PM']Didn't Tony Martin shoot them running away - in the back! That's not self-defence...[/quote]
solicitors/courts spent ages debating this one - so watch out, you might start a VERY long discussion!!!!

I wasn't defending him.

You're right it's a grey area.

I was debating this with my 14 year old son this weekend following his success in a Mock Trial Competition (He was the Prosecuting Lawyer) - his schopol won through to the National Finals!

The upshot (no pun intended) was a life was lost... is the killing of another human being justified just to protect property?

I guess, at the end of the day, I'd do the same if I felt me or my family were in 'real' danger.

I don't know.... the law says that "you can use reasonable force" to defend yourself... and I suppose shooting someone isn't considered reasonable..

I suppose it comes down to where the line is drawn.. I'd just hope i'll never be in the situation where I find out..

if i had my way, he would be awarded an OBE. As for Tony Martin, I don,t know. Maybe a knighthood.

we are supposed to be living in a civilised world, but there,s nothing civilised about giving a burglar legal aid to sue a victim of burglary.

sometimes you wish these thing happen to those who pass these laws and sentences, them they would know what it feels like to be a victim.

Big up to da Hummer man.

[quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 17 2003, 02:09 PM']Didn't Tony Martin shoot them running away - in the back! That's not self-defence...[/quote]
had they not just robbed him where's the problem????

[quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 17 2003, 02:09 PM']Didn't Tony Martin shoot them running away - in the back! That's not self-defence...[/quote]
it,s self defense. if you don,t shoot them bloodclat, they will come again, probably heavily armed. remember, one burglar less on da street, makes it abit safer, however slight.

If every burglar thought he would be shot and killed every time he did a crime i am sure crime rates would fall . them all you have to be scum to break into somebodys home .As for resonable force who cares they know the risks .This country is to soft on these type of scum .The sun is doing a colletion to pay his legal fee,s and i know i will pledge some money .

[quote name='tony_hetherington' date='Jun 17 2003, 03:22 PM'][quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 17 2003, 03:09 PM'] Didn't Tony Martin shoot them running away - in the back! That's not self-defence...[/quote]
solicitors/courts spent ages debating this one - so watch out, you might start a VERY long discussion!!!![/quote]
I'm not surprsed the legal system side with the burglar ...
Keeps them all in a job - specially this lowlife ....
He had somethng like 250 previous convictions !!

Think of the dosh the lawyers can screw out of legal aid for that kind of scum
Hell, they'd probably pay the burglar some sort of sales commission

[quote name='Teddy' date='Jun 18 2003, 11:32 AM'][quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 17 2003, 02:09 PM'] Didn't Tony Martin shoot them running away - in the back! That's not self-defence...[/quote]
it,s self defense. if you don,t shoot them bloodclat, they will come again, probably heavily armed. remember, one burglar less on da street, makes it abit safer, however slight. [/quote]
So who's going to protect society from people like you?

Toy Martin should have received a token sentence and been released on appeal - not have appeals rejected and made to serve full term.

The remaining should never have been given the right to sue.

If burglars expect to get shot they will merely go in armed in the first place - though a good slapping should be expected / considered fair play if they get caught ...

In thwe States a mate was told to build a handrail around a roof decking in case someone tried to break-in and fell - so leaving him liable for their injuries - now that is MAD ...

A voice of reason!

[quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 18 2003, 02:43 PM'][quote name='Teddy' date='Jun 18 2003, 11:32 AM'] [quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 17 2003, 02:09 PM'] Didn't Tony Martin shoot them running away - in the back! That's not self-defence...[/quote]
it,s self defense. if you don,t shoot them bloodclat, they will come again, probably heavily armed. remember, one burglar less on da street, makes it abit safer, however slight. [/quote]
So who's going to protect society from people like you? [/quote]
listen man, don't want to start any beef here. what was that about? I have been a victim of burglary on two occassions and trust me it aint nice especially when you know who did it but the cops said he wasn't caught in the act.
he even knows i know.

He broke into the house of a heavily pregnant woman whose husband was away working nights to earn a living for the unborn child, and their two young daughters.
The woman knows who he is and he threatened to stab the woman in the stomach. he took what he could and ****** off. cops later said they couldn't do anything but have to catch him in the act.

Now, tell me. If yer woman was the pregnant one and you were away working nights, how the hell are you going to feel? He is a well know thief who's bruv was inside. Cops were waiting to nail him in the act, or catch him selling stuff, then they can pin all the other stuff on him. It eventually happened, but people (who saw in the act like the pregnant lady) were so scared to give evidence he got away with a slap on the wrist and was back again.

the only way is for someone to fight him when he breaks in and for the cops to arrest him. The cops told me even that you have to use "reasonable" force. if you hit him once and he falls down, that's it. you can't hit him again cos he's "powerless" otherwise you could be charged for assault. so he can recover and you start a fight again. He could then seriously hurt someone.

If he had been taken out, why would people go thru all these ordeals? And people like you should think of the mental scares on victims before you make silly statements like that. if the burglars didn't come to tony martins house, why would he need to shoot them.

Tell me why crime rate is very low in "uncivilised"countries where the punishment is very severe? Remember, you have to engage the clutch before you change gear. think before you make statements like that.

maybe shooting is too severe, but if burglars knew they could be shot, then even if they survive, banged up in jail for a few years, they would think again. They know they can get legal aid to sue their victims, so they would do it. And I guess that's the kind of society you want to live in.

I second that .Far to many do gooders in this country .

Bring back capital punishment.. Like Teddy said look at the middle east for example.. You mess with peoples stuff over there and you end up with bits missing... And it seems to work very well. I have two young children in my house and if i found somebody inside I would Make damn sure that i laid the person out before anything else could have chance to happen. Sorry if this affends some people but the lives of my family come way way before the life of some scumbag that cant be ****d to get of his **** and get a job.. or some crack head stealing to feed his habbit... Rant over


jac

Its quite simple if you steal its wrong most people were brought up that way!
So why are these people not punished i was working in hayes middlesex and staying in a hotel where my van and my mates van were broken in to in the early evening (wasn't even dark ) despite reasonable measures on my part to protect my tools i.e. £300 van vault with high security locks locked to the floor of the van, a group of people decided it was their right to take these by pushing a screwdriver through the side of my van and cutting my van vault out of my van and taking all of it end result £5000 of my equipment gone just like that!
Does anyone give a f*ck ......... no, police perhaps ........ no, hotel ......... no said to me "yeah it happens all the time if there was 10 vans getting done a night like in the travellodge on the M4 id be worried" (thanks for letting me know when i checked in)
So i am a tradesman i work with my hands i need tools to use my hand effectivley and earn myself money and because of some w*nkers i am effectivley disabled unless i go out and spend loads of cash and buy new tools.
A thief how ever uses his hands mostly to steal so why not cut them off and make it difficult to do his job that way he wouldnt be able to steal all our stuff and would be easily recognisable in the street as the scum he is!

[quote name='japanese lowrider' date='Jun 18 2003, 06:15 PM']Its quite simple if you steal its wrong most people were brought up that way!
So why are these people not punished i was working in hayes middlesex and staying in a hotel where my van and my mates van were broken in to in the early evening (wasn't even dark ) despite reasonable measures on my part to protect my tools i.e. £300 van vault with high security locks locked to the floor of the van, a group of people decided it was their right to take these by pushing a screwdriver through the side of my van and cutting my van vault out of my van and taking all of it end result £5000 of my equipment gone just like that!
Does anyone give a f*ck ......... no, police perhaps ........ no, hotel ......... no said to me "yeah it happens all the time if there was 10 vans getting done a night like in the travellodge on the M4 id be worried" (thanks for letting me know when i checked in)
So i am a tradesman i work with my hands i need tools to use my hand effectivley and earn myself money and because of some w*nkers i am effectivley disabled unless i go out and spend loads of cash and buy new tools.
A thief how ever uses his hands mostly to steal so why not cut them off and make it difficult to do his job that way he wouldnt be able to steal all our stuff and would be easily recognisable in the street as the scum he is![/quote]
Amen to that, and the previous two post.

Back to Tony Martin again, the authorities were looking to change his identity and move him somewhere else. He's apparently under threat from the family/friends/contacts of the burglar he shot who died. After exploring these possibilities, it's now been determined that it will be worthless changing his identity - because, get this!!, the other burglar who was wounded has been deemed a victim, and as such has to be kept informed where Tony Martin is living on his release.

Something is severely wrong with this country. Laws need to be changed to protect the victims not the criminals. The police are powerless in some instances and can't be bothered in others. When things do get progressed either the CPS lets the system down or some ditthery, senile old judge cocks it up.

[quote name='Teddy' date='Jun 18 2003, 04:39 PM'][quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 18 2003, 02:43 PM'] [quote name='Teddy' date='Jun 18 2003, 11:32 AM'] [quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 17 2003, 02:09 PM'] Didn't Tony Martin shoot them running away - in the back! That's not self-defence...[/quote]
it,s self defense. if you don,t shoot them bloodclat, they will come again, probably heavily armed. remember, one burglar less on da street, makes it abit safer, however slight. [/quote]
So who's going to protect society from people like you? [/quote]
listen man, don't want to start any beef here. what was that about? I have been a victim of burglary on two occassions and trust me it aint nice especially when you know who did it but the cops said he wasn't caught in the act.
he even knows i know.

He broke into the house of a heavily pregnant woman whose husband was away working nights to earn a living for the unborn child, and their two young daughters.
The woman knows who he is and he threatened to stab the woman in the stomach. he took what he could and ****** off. cops later said they couldn't do anything but have to catch him in the act.

Now, tell me. If yer woman was the pregnant one and you were away working nights, how the hell are you going to feel? He is a well know thief who's bruv was inside. Cops were waiting to nail him in the act, or catch him selling stuff, then they can pin all the other stuff on him. It eventually happened, but people (who saw in the act like the pregnant lady) were so scared to give evidence he got away with a slap on the wrist and was back again.

the only way is for someone to fight him when he breaks in and for the cops to arrest him. The cops told me even that you have to use "reasonable" force. if you hit him once and he falls down, that's it. you can't hit him again cos he's "powerless" otherwise you could be charged for assault. so he can recover and you start a fight again. He could then seriously hurt someone.

If he had been taken out, why would people go thru all these ordeals? And people like you should think of the mental scares on victims before you make silly statements like that. if the burglars didn't come to tony martins house, why would he need to shoot them.

Tell me why crime rate is very low in "uncivilised"countries where the punishment is very severe? Remember, you have to engage the clutch before you change gear. think before you make statements like that.

maybe shooting is too severe, but if burglars knew they could be shot, then even if they survive, banged up in jail for a few years, they would think again. They know they can get legal aid to sue their victims, so they would do it. And I guess that's the kind of society you want to live in. [/quote]
If you didn't want to start a "beef" then you shouldn't have tried to sound all gangsta and call me a bloodclat.

Oh guess what, I've been the victim of violent crime too - so I speak with some experience here.

You want a gun culture like the states then go live there...

As a victim of serious injury (as in nearly killed via a physical attack some years ago) I have to say the laws in this country are ludicrous, when someone's property or person is put at risk you should have every right to take any action necessary to prevent it from happening or happening again without worry of legal recourse within reason.

If I was to be in a psoition where I was going to be attacked again I know exactly what I would do and unfortunately I would do so knowing that the law would probably take the side of the person who had experienced the most injuries not the person who initiated the attack. Something desperately needs to be done in this country as things are already way out of line.

It's just to common an occurance to hear about criminals beating the system or the victims to get financial reward when it is themselves who should be punished even when they were not successful in their attempts.

The SUN has started a petition to try and help Tony Martin although I can't see it donig much good with the current state of play with UK Law....

VOTE for me .......VOTE MAT

i'll stop this crazy country going to the dogs

[quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 19 2003, 09:37 AM'][quote name='Teddy' date='Jun 18 2003, 04:39 PM'] [quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 18 2003, 02:43 PM'] [quote name='Teddy' date='Jun 18 2003, 11:32 AM'] [quote name='onewackynode' date='Jun 17 2003, 02:09 PM'] Didn't Tony Martin shoot them running away - in the back! That's not self-defence...[/quote]
it,s self defense. if you don,t shoot them bloodclat, they will come again, probably heavily armed. remember, one burglar less on da street, makes it abit safer, however slight. [/quote]
So who's going to protect society from people like you? [/quote]
listen man, don't want to start any beef here. what was that about? I have been a victim of burglary on two occassions and trust me it aint nice especially when you know who did it but the cops said he wasn't caught in the act.
he even knows i know.

He broke into the house of a heavily pregnant woman whose husband was away working nights to earn a living for the unborn child, and their two young daughters.
The woman knows who he is and he threatened to stab the woman in the stomach. he took what he could and ****** off. cops later said they couldn't do anything but have to catch him in the act.

Now, tell me. If yer woman was the pregnant one and you were away working nights, how the hell are you going to feel? He is a well know thief who's bruv was inside. Cops were waiting to nail him in the act, or catch him selling stuff, then they can pin all the other stuff on him. It eventually happened, but people (who saw in the act like the pregnant lady) were so scared to give evidence he got away with a slap on the wrist and was back again.

the only way is for someone to fight him when he breaks in and for the cops to arrest him. The cops told me even that you have to use "reasonable" force. if you hit him once and he falls down, that's it. you can't hit him again cos he's "powerless" otherwise you could be charged for assault. so he can recover and you start a fight again. He could then seriously hurt someone.

If he had been taken out, why would people go thru all these ordeals? And people like you should think of the mental scares on victims before you make silly statements like that. if the burglars didn't come to tony martins house, why would he need to shoot them.

Tell me why crime rate is very low in "uncivilised"countries where the punishment is very severe? Remember, you have to engage the clutch before you change gear. think before you make statements like that.

maybe shooting is too severe, but if burglars knew they could be shot, then even if they survive, banged up in jail for a few years, they would think again. They know they can get legal aid to sue their victims, so they would do it. And I guess that's the kind of society you want to live in. [/quote]
If you didn't want to start a "beef" then you shouldn't have tried to sound all gangsta and call me a bloodclat.

Oh guess what, I've been the victim of violent crime too - so I speak with some experience here.

You want a gun culture like the states then go live there... [/quote]
that's complete nonsense, man. I never called you a "bloodclat". Read it again, and again.

Someone said Tony Martin shot them when they were running away which some people were debating whether it's self defence or not. You said it's not self defence, then I replied by saying it self defence cos they could come back heavily armed next time.

That's when I used the word "bloodclat". And I said "if you don,t shoot them bloodclat, they will come again, probably heavily armed." I never called you that. Read it again, and see if I was refering to you or the burglars. Unless you know where Tony Martin's house is, how could I be refering to you?

Which part of my sentences sound gansta? Or is it becuase I was saying the farmer was right to shoot them? Or is it becuase I think we should be tougher on these criminals? Or since when did using "ebonic slang" become gangsta.Tell me. As I said earlier, maybe shooting may be too harsh but if burglars know they will be locked up for a few years and wouldn't be given legal aid etc to sue someone, they will think again.

oh, before I forget, please read this again before you accuse me of calling you something else. Maybe "bomboclat" this time.

Take it E Z

T

T

I read it again and I apologise. I seriously misinterpreted your words.

This is my last post on this subject and despite how it may have come across I enjoyed our "duel".

Take care and lets hope we both live out long and trouble free lives.

No sweat 'ld boy. Ok, lets shake hands. Shame we have a hand shaking icon here to click on.

If some of my words were a harsh, please accept my apologies. I wouldn't be harsh if I don't agree with someone. We may agree to disagree and that's end of story, but when it comes to burglary, beating up and mugging old defenseless people for 50 quid I have a very strong view on those.

If I had my own way, such people should be tied to a fishing hook of a boat, and dipped into the sea (only their feet) round Florida for the Great Whites to have a nibble, then pulled back up.

You read about the Tony Martin case and it makes your blood boil, so when someone tends to disagree with what Tony Martin did, or disagree with a hardline approach to these sort of crimes, I tend to wonder what sort of earth we are living on.

Anyway, take it E Z 'ld boy. I am sure we will meet up in own of the Club meets, and laugh about it (I mean our "duel").

Peace

T