Do you think that the current income tax rates are fair?

23% up to around £33k per year, then 40% from £33k up to 10 squillion quid.

Methinks there's something wrong here

Sure i said this somewhere before .... but ...

ALL taxation is legalised theft

Your BORN.......you WORK..........you pay TAXES...........you DIE..........end of

I assume you pay 40%, then have a thought for those that are
on the minimum wage(no i'm not),or cant afford a night out or nice cars,treats
the list goes on.Donate some of your wealth to the homeless,3rd world countries
or worth while charities.

Dont want to get up anybodys nose.

[color=blue][font="Arial"]Stop Whinging this is life!!!![/color][/font]


There,rant over

[quote name='pee.j' date='Jun 20 2003, 05:38 PM']Your BORN.......you WORK..........you pay TAXES...........you DIE..........end of [/quote]
it should read:-

Your BORN.......you WORK..........you pay TAXES...........you DIE..........you pay 40% tax on anything your worth over £250,000.......end of

just to add my two cents worth

Sadly we have to pay taxes unless we want to live even more like a 3rd world country.

I wonder why we don't have a couple of more tiers?

I reckon 40% from £33k is an outrageous liberty on the not well off. How about the following:

23% up to £33k
30% up to £45k
40% up to £100k
45% upwards of £100k

This would give an added boost and incentive to the back bone of the country, and make the very well off pay a very small percentage more.

I think I'll add this to manifesto

[quote name='pee.j' date='Jun 20 2003, 05:38 PM'].Donate some of your wealth to the homeless,3rd world countries
or worth while charities.[/quote]
we already donate 40% is that not enough???

[quote]I reckon 40% from £33k is an outrageous liberty on the not well off. How about the following:[/quote]

i dont think people who earn 33k could be classified as not well off

its only 40% of the amount above this ,up to this amount they still pay the same as someone earning 15k

Don't forget the personal allowance first as well. First bit is free, then 15% / 23% etc.

TBH - I would happily pay more direct taxation and remove some of the indirect taxes.

I think it is fairest all round if we pay on earnings, but then don't pay on savings/spendings etc.

I think there should perhaps be a 45 or 50% rate for amounts over say 250k BUT we cannot say how that could effect the balance needed elsewhere without info we don't have. We cannot second guess balancing the books.

I would like to see waste and inefficiences driven out of what our tax money goes on - but ultimatly, I like this country and appreciate that many of the benefits are costly. Also although there will always be scroats and thieves who will 'do' the system - on the whole, those that need the benefits system are genuine and should be supported.

I would MUCH rather be one of the hard working that pays 40% tax, than someone living on minimum wage or benfits.

I won't get into whether people earning £33k and above are well off enough - as that is decided not by your income, but by your disposable income. It is also a fact that some people are better with money than others and so can earn less but live a better lifestyle.

[quote name='tdiplc' date='Jun 20 2003, 07:42 PM']23% up to £33k
30% up to £45k
40% up to £100k
45% upwards of £100k

I think I'll add this to manifesto [/quote]

While this is all very well in theory ....

The kind of people who would be liable for the higher rates are the same people,
who by virtue of having tons of dosh, can pretty much choose which country to pay taxes in.

So, to get any tax off them at all, the rate has to be 'competitive' on a global scale.

Another one liner on the subject ...

"Rich people don't pay taxes, they pay accountants instead"

Oh, and in answer to a previous question ... or i think that's what it was ...
Nope, not me guv ... i aint part o' no 40% tax bracket ...

You pay 40% tax on income above £35115 ...
this includes the £4615 tax free allowance (applicable to the under 65's)

Here's the solution....

As there are so many bloody *** 3 series drivers out there - let them pay 75% tax on every penny they earn.

i suppose the well off / not well off is down to personal views
the theory of the more you earn the more you spend is true


[quote]Don't forget the personal allowance first as well. First bit is free, then 15% / 23% etc.[/quote]
and there is also a 10% bracket

Taxation limits are OK, I never pay more than %, the secert is to this a very good accountant.

As a senior member I have been doing some research. When you get to 65 your tax allowance increases by £2000. If you work and earn over £8000 then the allowance decreases by £1 for every £2 earned.

If you have another pension then you pay tax on your state pension.

Its tax everywhere , that is pay, pensions, vat, excise licences and indirect taxation in ' speeding offences'
This ( speeding fines) is another subject already thrashed .

It's our fault - we voted Labour

(well I didn't the last time but the time before that I did).

[quote name='javadude' date='Jun 21 2003, 09:02 AM']It's our fault - we voted Labour

(well I didn't the last time but the time before that I did). [/quote]
Quite right Javadude. I think a lot of us were fed up with a morally bankrupt Tory party that were devoid of any new ideas or solutions, and voted for a change

It seems to me that the 40% tax rate has been around for as long as I can remember at roughly the same threshold.

£33k ten or more years ago was a very good wage, but nowadays it is about average. Why should Mr Average be paying the same tax rate as Mr Multi Millionaire?

Don't sound fair to me.

[quote name='tdiplc' date='Jun 21 2003, 11:00 AM']£33k ten or more years ago was a very good wage, but nowadays it is about average.[/quote]
He He .. OK then, on that basis ...

Scuse me guv, could you spare some change kind sir ....
For a hard up chap with modest mortgage and lexus to run


Better stop before '2 jags' tells the police to move me on ...
Can't be having no undesirable scroungers making the place look untidy ... ey Mr Prescott

Iwish I was in the 40% bracket... at least that way i would still be taking home more than I do In the 23% bracket and yes if you look at my avatar you will see i live in surrey... load of bollocks that 33k average.. that is only the case because surrey has the biggest amount of multi millionairs living here.. most of there wealth is amassed from overseas bussiness.. so here i sit earning just over 20k with 2 kids in an area where the average price of a 2 bed flat is 160k. o.k have you worked out the sums yet.. How do you get a mortgage for 160k with 20k income .. I was lucky.. got my mortgage 7 years ago when my flat was only 70k.. (now valued at 165k) For those who are looking into buying there first home now its almost impossibe unless you earn at least 40k (Thats above the so called average) .


o.k rant over



jac

The Actual Average income according the the Office of National Statistics (paid for by our taxes!) has risen over the last ten years from £15k to £25k. still seems a little low maybe? well, think about the rise in the price of mars bars, petrol and Milk and you'll see that its not maddly out of kilter.

So with the average earnings enabling the employee a mortgage of £88k what can they expect to buy if the average house price is £120k.... I guess they must save their whole net income for 3 years to save for a deposit. Oh yes, our countries economics are just dandy!

I've not long been a 40% tax payer but I am striving to pay £100k a year in direct income tax before leaping into the world of being self employed and having someone almost as Smart as Ultraviolet show me how to pay £5k a year in tax. now that is a bonus woth working towards!

Tax is a good problem to have. the bigger the problem the better you are doing, surely?

Loz (complete with rose tinted specs)

and before you say it, I DID go to specsavers!

[quote name='Loz' date='Jun 21 2003, 07:52 PM']The Actual Average income according the the Office of National Statistics (paid for by our taxes!) has risen over the last ten years from £15k to £25k. still seems a little low maybe? well, think about the rise in the price of mars bars, petrol and Milk and you'll see that its not maddly out of kilter.

So with the average earnings enabling the employee a mortgage of £88k what can they expect to buy if the average house price is £120k.... I guess they must save their whole net income for 3 years to save for a deposit. Oh yes, our countries economics are just dandy!

I've not long been a 40% tax payer but I am striving to pay £100k a year in direct income tax before leaping into the world of being self employed and having someone almost as Smart as Ultraviolet show me how to pay £5k a year in tax. now that is a bonus woth working towards!

Tax is a good problem to have. the bigger the problem the better you are doing, surely?

Loz (complete with rose tinted specs)

and before you say it, I DID go to specsavers![/quote]
a good accountant should be able to save you paying as much tax
but inevatably you will allways have to pay it
there are many schemes that can be used to save money
but you allways have to bear in mind the old taxman aint daft
i employ my wife and pay her £25k a year, she gets taxed at 23%
but its 25k im not paying 40% on, so in theory i can earn 50k and still be taxed at 23%
being self employed i also put my car down as a company car, i dont get taxed on that unlike the employed persons company car, and every thing i buy for it goes through the books and the VAT can be reclaimed on it

[quote name='bazza' date='Jun 21 2003, 09:57 PM']i employ my wife and pay her £25k a year, she gets taxed at 23%
but its 25k im not paying 40% on, so in theory i can earn 50k and still be taxed at 23%[/quote]
Wasn't there something in the gold forums about this kind of thing ?

TaxMan had latched onto it and gave someone a huge backdated bill or something ?

[quote name='TonyGoose' date='Jun 22 2003, 12:52 AM'][quote name='bazza' date='Jun 21 2003, 09:57 PM'] i employ my wife and pay her £25k a year, she gets taxed at 23%
but its 25k im not paying 40% on, so in theory i can earn 50k and still be taxed at 23%[/quote]
Wasn't there something in the gold forums about this kind of thing ?

TaxMan had latched onto it and gave someone a huge backdated bill or something ?

[/quote]
cant say i read it

but this was all done legit
on advice from certified accountant

i am classed as a sole trader ,i know there is a lot of differences to a LTD company

[quote name='bazza' date='Jun 22 2003, 01:08 AM'][quote name='TonyGoose' date='Jun 22 2003, 12:52 AM'] [quote name='bazza' date='Jun 21 2003, 09:57 PM'] i employ my wife and pay her £25k a year, she gets taxed at 23%
but its 25k im not paying 40% on, so in theory i can earn 50k and still be taxed at 23%[/quote]
Wasn't there something in the gold forums about this kind of thing ?

TaxMan had latched onto it and gave someone a huge backdated bill or something ?

[/quote]
cant say i read it

but this was all done legit
on advice from certified accountant

i am classed as a sole trader ,i know there is a lot of differences to a LTD company [/quote]

Here it is ...

[url="http://www.goldmembers.co.uk/loc/forums/viewtopic.php?t=769"]http://www.goldmembers.co.uk/loc/forums/vi...topic.php?t=769[/url]

Read it and weep

On the plus side, seems as though 'gold members' may be able to avoid it

[quote name='bazza' date='Jun 21 2003, 08:57 PM']i employ my wife and pay her £25k a year[/quote]
I employ my wife to cook me dinners and iron my shirts - she ain't getting £25K a year to do that!

[quote name='bazza' date='Jun 22 2003, 12:08 AM']on advice from certified accountant[/quote]
All accountants should be certified!

I've set up a limited company....

pay myself 380 per month and a dividend of 3k per month

no NI cont on 3k & 380 is below ni threshold

charge the company petrol @ .25p a mile & other expenses at cost

then claim 40 p back from IR as allowable expense on my personal tax which offsets the "profit" calc from the .25 p a mile.........

Then @ year end pay as much of the companys tax into my pension fund.



got other dodges to beat IR35 as well.......

I've paid full NI & Tax since 1977........never been unemployed.........no kids...........been ill twice (in hospital 2 weeks all my life......

when I retire at 70 as Mr Blair want Ill get bugger all.........which is why I'm joining big business and doing everything I can to pay as little as possible.......

[quote name='TonyGoose' date='Jun 22 2003, 10:08 AM'][quote name='bazza' date='Jun 22 2003, 01:08 AM'] [quote name='TonyGoose' date='Jun 22 2003, 12:52 AM'] [quote name='bazza' date='Jun 21 2003, 09:57 PM'] i employ my wife and pay her £25k a year, she gets taxed at 23%
but its 25k im not paying 40% on, so in theory i can earn 50k and still be taxed at 23%[/quote]
Wasn't there something in the gold forums about this kind of thing ?

TaxMan had latched onto it and gave someone a huge backdated bill or something ?

[/quote]
cant say i read it

but this was all done legit
on advice from certified accountant

i am classed as a sole trader ,i know there is a lot of differences to a LTD company [/quote]

Here it is ...

[url="http://www.goldmembers.co.uk/loc/forums/viewtopic.php?t=769"]http://www.goldmembers.co.uk/loc/forums/vi...topic.php?t=769[/url]

Read it and weep

On the plus side, seems as though 'gold members' may be able to avoid it [/quote]
that is all about a limited company
it is a different thing altogether

i am the only person as such
my wife is just like another employee
only her wages go into the same houshold

[quote name='DaveEllen' date='Jun 22 2003, 07:21 PM']then claim 40 p back from IR as allowable expense on my personal tax which offsets the "profit" calc from the .25 p a mile.........[/quote]
Don't forget you can only claim this amount on the first 10,000 miles.......

Oh and the chap who thinks if you are earning £40k a year, you pay the same tax as the millionaire ..... it is percentage don't forget - on the top slice too. So the millionaire total percentage will still be higher than that of someone on £40k a year. (Assuming both paying on all earnings PAYE)

A Ltd company does have very different rules to a Sole Trader or partnership - but not always better. Certainly more red tape!

Personally, I think the tax variations are too 'hard stop'...

It would be much better to have many more 'smaller' increases...

Just my 2 cents...

[quote name='UltraViolet' date='Jun 23 2003, 01:08 AM'][quote name='DaveEllen' date='Jun 22 2003, 07:21 PM'] then claim 40 p back from IR as allowable expense on my personal tax which offsets the "profit" calc from the .25 p a mile.........[/quote]
Don't forget you can only claim this amount on the first 10,000 miles.......

Oh and the chap who thinks if you are earning £40k a year, you pay the same tax as the millionaire ..... it is percentage don't forget - on the top slice too. So the millionaire total percentage will still be higher than that of someone on £40k a year. (Assuming both paying on all earnings PAYE)

A Ltd company does have very different rules to a Sole Trader or partnership - but not always better. Certainly more red tape! [/quote]
cheers I know that.........hopefully i will not be doing that many..........if I do will need another lex...........mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm gs43 0

at this stage i personally dont care about taxation, as i dont pay any import tax, or Vat on cars, fags or alcohol.

wait however till i come back to the UK

[quote name='Supracharged-IS340' date='Jun 23 2003, 07:04 PM']at this stage i personally dont care about taxation, as i dont pay any import tax, or Vat on cars, fags or alcohol.

wait however till i come back to the UK[/quote]
no wonder our taxes are so high

but i work for the privelidge of not paying them

[quote name='Supracharged-IS340' date='Jun 23 2003, 07:12 PM']but i work for the privelidge of not paying them [/quote]
but your boss pays them

not really shes a sour old bat

[quote name='bazza' date='Jun 22 2003, 12:08 AM']I am classed as a sole trader ,i know there is a lot of differences to a LTD company[/quote]
absolutely.

no limited liability to start with.


you run up debts / go bancrupt etc - then you can loose the house, the car, personal savings etc etc.


the biggest advantage of limited company is limited liability.

in case of things going wrong - your liability is limited to the assets of the company.

if you've got a ltd company make sure u get it drawn up correctly..........if you do go bust creditors can get the pension fund your company has put by for u.............

[quote name='DaveEllen' date='Jun 23 2003, 07:12 PM']if you've got a ltd company make sure u get it drawn up correctly..........if you do go bust creditors can get the pension fund your company has put by for u............. [/quote]
have you got a source for this Dave?

doesn't sound right to me - the pension fund is not an asset of the company - it should be in your name?


not calling you a liar mate ( ) - just want to have a read up on it.

personally I've only ever found one reason to pay any tax, and that is....

The State will kill me if I dont!

I'm happy to privatise EVERYTHING except the Police, Justice and Defence systems, and run those from the profits of a National Lottery or similar.

Maybe if I had ever met a bureaucrat who actually COULD run my life better than me I would think differently, but I'm kinda happy making my own mistakes and profiting from them.

NZ has 39% max tax rate on income over $60,000

[quote name='tdiplc' date='Jun 21 2003, 11:00 AM']It seems to me that the 40% tax rate has been around for as long as I can remember at roughly the same threshold.[/quote]
Not that many years ago, the top rate was 98%, don't know what the threshold was, so a lot of the top earners (it was mostly pop and rock stars) left the country - spending only so many days a year here

So in effect the taxman lost everything from them

[quote name='Matthew_McNally' date='Jun 23 2003, 08:49 PM'][quote name='DaveEllen' date='Jun 23 2003, 07:12 PM'] if you've got a ltd company make sure u get it drawn up correctly..........if you do go bust creditors can get the pension fund your company has put by for u............. [/quote]
have you got a source for this Dave?

doesn't sound right to me - the pension fund is not an asset of the company - it should be in your name?


not calling you a liar mate ( ) - just want to have a read up on it. [/quote]
Matt - My accountant mentioned it when setting up my company. PM me for his details if you want to talk to him........

If i remember right its to do with the articles of association and relates to the company part of the pension scheme......

Cost £400 for him to do all the work........

He also told me that whenever i pay myself a dividend I have to have a board meeting and my wife has to "sign over" her share of it........

Hope it helps

[quote]If i remember right its to do with the articles of association and relates to the company part of the pension scheme......[/quote]

I'll check through my AoA - but pretty happy that this would not effect me.

I would simply port my current exec pension to a private pension (should things go b00bies skywards) - making it entirely my property.

SWMBO pension is a stakeholder scheme, in her name - the company only contributes.

[quote]Cost £400 for him to do all the work........[/quote]

ouch - setup about six years ago - cost just over ton.

[quote]He also told me that whenever  i pay myself a dividend I have to have a board meeting and my wife has to "sign over" her share of it........[/quote]

you don't need a meeting - just the minutes of the meeting.

what do you mean your wife signs over her share?

if your wife has share capital in the company - which she gives back to you - you should seriously read [url="http://www.goldmembers.co.uk/loc/forums/viewtopic.php?t=769"]this thread[/url] about section 660 of ICTA - the revenue are hunting this sort of arrangement down.

cheers Matt will look at this thread.

However my wife is only a director as we need 2 people for a LTD co........

I'd prefer to be a sole trader but agencies I go thru will only deal with LTD co's...........

BTW what does your co do ?