Front brake disks for "enthusiastic" driving?

[PhilipK]

My 2008 IS250 SE-L is due its first set of front disks and pads at 35k miles. I drive reasonably enthusiastically, using the performance available to me (and am no stranger to the red circle on the speedo ). My primary criterion for choosing which disks and pads to go for is braking performance - I'm really not that bothered by noise, dust, looks, surface rust, etc.

Trying to decide what disks and pads to go for is very difficult  there are probably as many different opinions out there as there are cars!

Based on everything I've read so far, I've provisionally decided to go with RedStuff pads, but can't decide which disks to go for. Any suggestions?

For info, current eBay prices are: Mintex disks and pads - £66.09. Genuine Lexus disks and pads - £175 (or, fitted by my local dealers, £336.24). RedStuff pads (no disks) - £85.83

[rayaans]

Redstuff pads are rubbish - I know many owners who have had redstuff pads disintegrate, crack etc

The Genuine lexus disks and pads are pretty good to be honest but if I were you Id probably just go for brembos

[Linas.P]

There are no upgrades for standard IS250 brakes. Many options?! - not sure what you are talking about.. there are many OE equivalent parts... which are to various degree same or worst than OE. There are not really any performance options for IS250.. except of maybe EBC pads as you mentioned... but the problem is not the pads but the actual rotors.

You can get slotted, drilled, dimpled rotors - but that is only visual upgrade, does not change performance at all. Lexus standard brake pads are quite aggressive already, so not much upgrade available. The reason for all that - IS250 brakes are undersized and under powered... there are no way around it. For this reason Lexus chosen very aggressive pads which chews front rotors very quickly. Some have reported replacing front rotors after 20k miles, sometimes pads actually outlasts rotors (which is unheard on any other make). If you want to look for any weak points on IS250 is one - brakes! Not in the way they brake, which I consider comfortable and consistent, but especially in the way they wear excessively. Now another thing - try emergency braking.. It is very hard to make ABS to kick in, especially if you have good tires with sticky thread... Simply there are not enough power in the brakes to actually lock the wheels.

Now your only real option is to upgrade for IS350 brakes (I believe GS300 fits as well). These have bigger rotors, calipers .. and that pretty much solves the whole issue. Bear in mind - while IS350 upgrade is probably most sensible after F-Sport sway bars - this can be considered performance upgrade and it would void your warranty and you as well need to report it to insurance.

There are plenty information about this upgrade both in UK and US forums... other thing you might need to do is to upgrade to 18 inch rims to accommodate bigger calipers and rotors (OEM are fine, as they were shared between IS250 and IS350).

Good luck with your new purchase!

[PhilipK]

11 hours ago, rayaans said:

Redstuff pads are rubbish - I know many owners who have had redstuff pads disintegrate, crack etc

Thanks - that's not something that I've read about. Do you have any links?

24 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

There are no upgrades for standard IS250 brakes. Many options?! - not sure what you are talking about.

[...]

Now your only real option is to upgrade for IS350 brakes

[...]

other thing you might need to do is to upgrade to 18 inch rims to accommodate bigger calipers and rotors

I think that I said many "opinions" rather than "options"

Car is already on 18s. I should have mentioned that I'm not really looking for a full brake update (I also have a couple of fast cars - the Lexus is meant to be my slow comfortable commuting car!), but as I need front disks/pads for my next MoT, I was looking for something that will just bolt straight in but might give me a little bit better braking than the Lexus ones.

No love for Mintex yet here. Does that mean that I should stay well away?

[Linas.P]

Sorry, my bad - opinions :)

I am have mintex low dust pads on the back.. simply because they were cheapest. Same on front - low dust brembo, because were cheapest again (mintex more expensive than brembo?!).

The rotors on mine are drilled MTech with golden protective coating... but this is just visual upgrade. I would just say the same thing again, with standard rotors size there are nothing you can do - they are simply too small for relatively heavy and powerful car. Standard Lexus pads are already aggressive... you have options if you want lower dust, but nothing to really improve performance. Simple physics - surface of the rotor is too small to give you more braking power. 

[rayaans]

I believe Mintex, Pagid etc are all from the same company anyway - TMD Friction

Pagid is generally well regarded and do OEM for a lot of vehicles. But brembo would be my go to.

You could always put a big brake kit on if you're not happy with the pads after a while.

[Linas.P]

I thing big brake kit for non-performance car like IS250 is overkill, but IS350 brakes are what it should come from factory. 

Current set-up is simply not well designed.. 

[PhilipK]

Thanks for the responses.

I don't really want to go down the upgraded calipers route - and there don't seem to be any brembo disks or pads that will bolt straight on to the IS250. I'm just looking to replace the stock front pads and disks for the MoT.

Notwithstanding @rayaans comments about RedStuff, I've not seen any other negative comments about them (other than long bed-in times), so my current proposal is to go for:

Redstuff pads - £85.83 - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311319344401

Pagid disks - £64.78 - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331803918200

I'll wait another day or so before I order them, in case anybody can persuade me that there is a better solution (or knows of a cheaper suppliers for these parts!)

[Linas.P]

It is not that difficult to find brembo Rotors, here few links:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brembo-09-A717-11-Front-Brake-Disc/dp/B00L7TP1MU/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1465299907&vehicle=842-813-5465-19066-1-0&sr=1-1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brembo-08-A635-11-Rear-Coated-Brake/dp/B00LEIMIPM/ref=sr_1_27?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1465300007&vehicle=842-813-5465-19066-1-0&sr=1-27

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brembo-P83073-Rear-Disc-Brake/dp/B00AJU1ZP0/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1465300108&vehicle=842-813-5465-19066-1-0&sr=1-3

Somehow don't see fronts (probably bought last one).

Ferodo :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ferodo-DDF1814-Brake-Disc-set/dp/B00CUEL9J0/ref=sr_1_29?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1465300024&vehicle=842-813-5465-19066-1-0&sr=1-29

I am sure they are available for better price elsewhere, just saying it is not that hard to source them.

[PhilipK]

Thank you for the links. I hadn't thought of checking amazon, although the brembo sellers there all seem to be in Germany.

Any idea what the difference between brembo disks 09.A717.10 and 09.A717.11 is? They both seem to fit my car, but there's no mention of what the difference is.

(As an aside, I see that amazon are selling a "used" set of 09.A717.11. Who would put used brake disks on their car?)

Aaagghhh - too many choices

[Linas.P]

Used means - customer returns... e.g. somebody ordered wrong disks, unpacked and now you can grab them for £9.. I would buy them straight away, but I have upgraded all my rotors just over one month ago..

14 minutes ago, PhilipK said:

Any idea what the difference between Brembo disks 09.A717.10 and 09.A717.11 is?

11 are non-vented, 10 are vented. Check you car - my one uses non-vented disks in rear. They are as well not interchangeable, because vented ones are much wider, so I guess different caliper design.

[PhilipK]

Thank you so much for all the information and the helpful advice.

I've just bought the "used" brembo 09.A717.11 set (they look like vented fronts) - there's a 30 day return with amazon if there are any issues, so there's no great risk. I also bought a set of RedStuff pads at the same time.

I'll report back on my impressions once they've been fitted, but it may be a little while as I'm off to Le Mans next week (not in the Lexus!)

[Linas.P]

Yes. I am sure they will be fine - as you say you can return them anytime. As well if you read description - it says: "packing might be damaged, minor scratches" ...  definitely, doesn't sound like "used". You got bargain here.

As for impressions, I would set the expectations quite low - the best you can expect less dust and maybe better wear/longevity. I doubt of any increase in stopping power. 

... and good luck in Le Mans!