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Turbo Vs. Super Charging


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I would have to say turbo  :D

I started thinking about fitting a Turbo to my IS last year........and i asked  alot :question: before i went and done it! ;) 

and i think u have done a great job

Yeah top job Marcus for having the bottle to do it yourself!  :P

:blush: Thanks guys............... :D I just love playing with the IS :driving:

I know its not running 100%..............but by the time the 1st Jap/meet comes round next year it will be, with all upgrade forged internals, and not just the pistons & rods ...........BUT all moveing parts :whistling: :winky: i will let you all know when it all starts :whistling:

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marcus deserves a lot of credit  :D

by the way standard injectors are ok for up to 260bhp and 0.7 bar of boost  :winky:

Thanks bazza :blush: :D

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by the way standard injectors are ok for up to 260bhp and 0.7 bar

.........when we was at janspeed the guy who did the rolling road said the car started to hold back or lose power at .45 to .5 as the injectors were maxing out

all so on the print out we got i can see where it starts to lose power as well, my IS started to lose power at 4500 rpm ;) and i asked him why that was and he said he could feel the car holding back as the injectors were at max.........

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marcus deserves a lot of credit  :D

by the way standard injectors are ok for up to 260bhp and 0.7 bar of boost  :winky:

Thanks bazza :blush: :D

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

by the way standard injectors are ok for up to 260bhp and 0.7 bar

.........when we was at janspeed the guy who did the rolling road said the car started to hold back or lose power at .45 to .5 as the injectors were maxing out

all so on the print out we got i can see where it starts to lose power as well, my IS started to lose power at 4500 rpm ;) and i asked him why that was and he said he could feel the car holding back as the injectors were at max.........

more likely the pump and regulator are not feeding enough fuel to them

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marcus deserves a lot of credit  :D

by the way standard injectors are ok for up to 260bhp and 0.7 bar of boost  :winky:

Thanks bazza :blush: :D

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

by the way standard injectors are ok for up to 260bhp and 0.7 bar

.........when we was at janspeed the guy who did the rolling road said the car started to hold back or lose power at .45 to .5 as the injectors were maxing out

all so on the print out we got i can see where it starts to lose power as well, my IS started to lose power at 4500 rpm ;) and i asked him why that was and he said he could feel the car holding back as the injectors were at max.........

more likely the pump and regulator are not feeding enough fuel to them

:whistling: did not think of that bazza............well all thats geting upgraded at the same time as the rest :winky:

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by the way standard injectors are ok for up to 260bhp and 0.7 bar of boost  :winky:

The theoretical max hp output from any given injectors can be roughly calculated from this formula:

injector volume in cc * number of injectors / 5

I

--> 220cc * 6 / 5 = 264bhp

So Bazza, you're quite right. But that's in theory, the practise is a whole other thing... :tomato: I have one 1000cc(!) extra injector on the inlet piping, and I wouldn't have managed without it... :blink: I've tried not to intentionally maxx the std injectors, but instead mapped them to, say, 80-90%, and the rest is done with the extra injector.

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OK so confused by all this injector talk lol.

This is going to sound a bit odd but here it goes. Ive got an is200 sport, BUT want an is300 turbo.

Ive done a few things to my car exturnally etc, ive been thinking i could finish doing up my is200 externally and then get a is300 engine then put it in the car.

IS THIS A STUPID IDEAD or would it be easier to put car back to standard and buy an is300.

Also i would prefer a manual which i think means the 6 speed supra box.

Also question for scarface, does being a copper lower your insurance as im trying to get in, handed in form last week. fingers crossed.

Cheers for any ideas.

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by the way standard injectors are ok for up to 260bhp and 0.7 bar of boost  :winky:

The theoretical max hp output from any given injectors can be roughly calculated from this formula:

injector volume in cc * number of injectors / 5

I

--> 220cc * 6 / 5 = 264bhp

So Bazza, you're quite right. But that's in theory, the practise is a whole other thing... :tomato: I have one 1000cc(!) extra injector on the inlet piping, and I wouldn't have managed without it... :blink: I've tried not to intentionally maxx the std injectors, but instead mapped them to, say, 80-90%, and the rest is done with the extra injector.

i actually speak from reality rather than theory (nothing to do with mine by the way ) :whistling:

buy yes they were at max so is not so good

the upgrade or additional injectors is a definate over, say 240bhp

but what it does, is give a figure on what can possibly be obtained by the standard injectors

or at least a clue at what stage they need to be uprated

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OK so confused by all this injector talk lol.

This is going to sound a bit odd but here it goes. Ive got an is200 sport, BUT want an is300 turbo.

Ive done a few things to my car exturnally etc, ive been thinking i could finish doing up my is200 externally and then get a is300 engine then put it in the car.

IS THIS A STUPID IDEAD or would it be easier to put car back to standard and buy an is300.

Also i would prefer a manual which i think means the 6 speed supra box.

Also question for scarface, does being a copper lower your insurance as im trying to get in, handed in form last week. fingers crossed.

Cheers for any ideas.

Unless you have money to burn, sell the IS200 and buy an IS300 to turbocharge.

The IS300 may be auto but the box is easily moddable to handle +/-500rwhp with a fairly easy and cheap VB upgrade. The 5 speed manual will take a lot more work (and £££) to upgrade and a Getrag 6 speed transplant will be even more costly.

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OK so confused by all this injector talk lol.

This is going to sound a bit odd but here it goes. Ive got an is200 sport, BUT want an is300 turbo.

Ive done a few things to my car exturnally etc, ive been thinking i could finish doing up my is200 externally and then get a is300 engine then put it in the car.

IS THIS A STUPID IDEAD or would it be easier to put car back to standard and buy an is300.

Also i would prefer a manual which i think means the 6 speed supra box.

Also question for scarface, does being a copper lower your insurance as im trying to get in, handed in form last week. fingers crossed.

Cheers for any ideas.

Unless you have money to burn, sell the IS200 and buy an IS300 to turbocharge.

The IS300 may be auto but the box is easily moddable to handle +/-500rwhp with a fairly easy and cheap VB upgrade. The 5 speed manual will take a lot more work (and £££) to upgrade and a Getrag 6 speed transplant will be even more costly.

Dam it u wee on my bonfire lolol ok so ill have to buy a whole new car, how much does a is300 engine go for 2jz-ge i think. cos i was think the work could be done on the engine/gear box and i could still be the is200.

Anyways hows you project going mike and do u know much about fargos project????

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Dam it u wee on my bonfire lolol ok so ill have to buy a whole new car, how much does a is300 engine go for 2jz-ge i think. cos i was think the work could be done on the engine/gear box and i could still be the is200.

Anyways hows you project going mike and do u know much about fargos project????

Seriously.....I wouldn't bother with engine and tranny transplants unless you know what you are doing! There is much more involved than just dropping in a new lump or tranny. If you get a mechanic to do it for you and it will cost mucho Dinaro hombre!

GTE piston & rod upgrade kit and the Toyomoto S/C kit are due to arrive this week.....still waiting for some additional goodies but she'll be ready for surgery early December.

Fargo's planning on a Garrett GT3 (I think) turbo with a modified manifold from a MKIV Supra.

Any comments Mr F?

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Dam it u wee on my bonfire lolol ok so ill have to buy a whole new car, how much does a is300 engine go for 2jz-ge i think. cos i was think the work could be done on the engine/gear box and i could still be the is200.

Anyways hows you project going mike and do u know much about fargos project????

Seriously.....I wouldn't bother with engine and tranny transplants unless you know what you are doing! There is much more involved than just dropping in a new lump or tranny. If you get a mechanic to do it for you and it will cost mucho Dinaro hombre!

GTE piston & rod upgrade kit and the Toyomoto S/C kit are due to arrive this week.....still waiting for some additional goodies but she'll be ready for surgery early December.

Fargo's planning on a Garrett GT3 (I think) turbo with a modified manifold from a MKIV Supra.

Any comments Mr F?

what the toyomoto S/C knock you back thats the one i have my eye on for the GS but why the uprate on the internals are you planning to turbo in the future?

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Dam it u wee on my bonfire lolol ok so ill have to buy a whole new car, how much does a is300 engine go for 2jz-ge i think. cos i was think the work could be done on the engine/gear box and i could still be the is200.

Anyways hows you project going mike and do u know much about fargos project????

Seriously.....I wouldn't bother with engine and tranny transplants unless you know what you are doing! There is much more involved than just dropping in a new lump or tranny. If you get a mechanic to do it for you and it will cost mucho Dinaro hombre!

GTE piston & rod upgrade kit and the Toyomoto S/C kit are due to arrive this week.....still waiting for some additional goodies but she'll be ready for surgery early December.

Fargo's planning on a Garrett GT3 (I think) turbo with a modified manifold from a MKIV Supra.

Any comments Mr F?

what the toyomoto S/C knock you back thats the one i have my eye on for the GS but why the uprate on the internals are you planning to turbo in the future?

Stock 2JZ-GE internals are good for around 380bhp......With the Toyo kit, remap with a Greddy EMU plus Camcon VVTi controller we are confident of outputting over 400rwhp :blink:

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Dam it u wee on my bonfire lolol ok so ill have to buy a whole new car, how much does a is300 engine go for 2jz-ge i think. cos i was think the work could be done on the engine/gear box and i could still be the is200.

Anyways hows you project going mike and do u know much about fargos project????

Seriously.....I wouldn't bother with engine and tranny transplants unless you know what you are doing! There is much more involved than just dropping in a new lump or tranny. If you get a mechanic to do it for you and it will cost mucho Dinaro hombre!

GTE piston & rod upgrade kit and the Toyomoto S/C kit are due to arrive this week.....still waiting for some additional goodies but she'll be ready for surgery early December.

Fargo's planning on a Garrett GT3 (I think) turbo with a modified manifold from a MKIV Supra.

Any comments Mr F?

what the toyomoto S/C knock you back thats the one i have my eye on for the GS but why the uprate on the internals are you planning to turbo in the future?

Stock 2JZ-GE internals are good for around 380bhp......With the Toyo kit, remap with a Greddy EMU plus Camcon VVTi controller we are confident of outputting over 400rwhp :blink:

thats not the best news i have heard today seeing as nitrous on top is a plan too. Oh well more expense

so to continue the turbo debate what turbos can you attach as i have seen a few is there anyone who can give a rundown of the assorted types available ?

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turbo sizing isnt a straight one line answer, it depends on what is required, to what is able to handle the power delivery of the unit/units

well more along the lines of 2jz-ge fits but is there a resourse you can get turbo outputs from and suitability?

I know that u cant just fling one on from an Renault5 etc but there are alot out there. I know about all the twin big single conversions etc (theory) but for the actual lump to give you the boost i never really bothered until now. LED astray i tell you

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I personally haven't owned a superchared lexus but have had the pleasure of owning a turbo charged one.

As said earlier there can be lag but it all comes back to your set up and what you want the car for.. I think supercharging is just limiting your power and future upgrades but if your happy with the amount of power that it provides and like the overall cosmetics of the supercharger. I say go for it.

Marus, It is definitly your pump. Dont know what you have in mind with the replacement or whats available over there but try a walbro 500 intank pump.

Very small, very cheap and easy to fit.

As for injectors I think you would be wanting around the 650cc. I wasn't making anymore power at 13psi because I was running out of fuel with 500cc. I upgraded to 750cc and just adjusted the duty cycle. Doesn't miss a beat.

Now just replacing the turbo because I had a internal wastegate and spring wouldn't hold boost past 15psi. It made 335hp @ wheels at 15psi. I'll let you all know what it makes with the new turbo and in my hi lux ute.

Its good to meet a few more ppl with turbo lexus's

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I've had the pleasure of owning a supercharged and turbo'd Lexus.

The s/c is excellent and really makes a huge difference. It's a fairly resonably cheap way to gain a power increase to how the car should have been in the first place. As the TTE kit is bolt on it looks like its always been in the engine bay. There is also no lag from the s/c.

The turbo however is a lot more tunable and lots more power can be gained. Its a lot more expensive and other upgrades are required, such as handling, clutch etc. The sound of the turbo spinning up is excellent as is the BOV. There is also alot more work involved in the turbo conversion than the bolt on s/c.

So if you just want a pretty decent increase in power and dont want to spend loads, then the supercharger is the one to go for.

If you dont mind spending the money, then go for the turbo and other upgrades. They aren't as common as the supercharger is now and are faster.

Personally...............TURBO :D :driving:

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I personally haven't owned a superchared lexus but have had the pleasure of owning a turbo charged one.

As said earlier there can be lag but it all comes back to your set up and what you want the car for.. I think supercharging is just limiting your power and future upgrades but if your happy with the amount of power that it provides and like the overall cosmetics of the supercharger. I say go for it.

Marus, It is definitly your pump. Dont know what you have in mind with the replacement or whats available over there but try a walbro 500 intank pump.

Very small, very cheap and easy to fit.

As for injectors I think you would be wanting around the 650cc. I wasn't making anymore power at 13psi because I was running out of fuel with 500cc. I upgraded to 750cc and just adjusted the duty cycle. Doesn't miss a beat.

Now just replacing the turbo because I had a internal wastegate and spring wouldn't hold boost past 15psi. It made 335hp @ wheels at 15psi. I'll let you all know what it makes with the new turbo and in my hi lux ute.

Its good to meet a few more ppl with turbo lexus's

this sounds a awesome car would like to know more about this beast in in its own thread please tell more

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I personally haven't owned a superchared lexus but have had the pleasure of owning a turbo charged one.

As said earlier there can be lag but it all comes back to your set up and what you want the car for.. I think supercharging is just limiting your power and future upgrades but if your happy with the amount of power that it provides and like the overall cosmetics of the supercharger. I say go for it.

Marus, It is definitly your pump. Dont know what you have in mind with the replacement or whats available over there but try a walbro 500 intank pump.

Very small, very cheap and easy to fit.

As for injectors I think you would be wanting around the 650cc. I wasn't making anymore power at 13psi because I was running out of fuel with 500cc. I upgraded to 750cc and just adjusted the duty cycle. Doesn't miss a beat.

Now just replacing the turbo because I had a internal wastegate and spring wouldn't hold boost past 15psi. It made 335hp @ wheels at 15psi. I'll let you all know what it makes with the new turbo and in my hi lux ute.

Its good to meet a few more ppl with turbo lexus's

600HP IS300 Turbo are running on 440cc.

Something must be wrong I guess your fuel pressure is :sick:

On a 6 cylinder engine you don't need as big injectors as on 4 cylinders. ;)

With 440cc injects and the correct fuel system setup the engine should produce more power than the transmission can ever take. :ph34r:

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I personally haven't owned a superchared lexus but have had the pleasure of owning a turbo charged one.

As said earlier there can be lag but it all comes back to your set up and what you want the car for.. I think supercharging is just limiting your power and future upgrades but if your happy with the amount of power that it provides and like the overall cosmetics of the supercharger. I say go for it.

Marus, It is definitly your pump. Dont know what you have in mind with the replacement or whats available over there but try a walbro 500 intank pump.

Very small, very cheap and easy to fit.

As for injectors I think you would be wanting around the 650cc. I wasn't making anymore power at 13psi because I was running out of fuel with 500cc. I upgraded to 750cc and just adjusted the duty cycle. Doesn't miss a beat.

Now just replacing the turbo because I had a internal wastegate and spring wouldn't hold boost past 15psi. It made 335hp @ wheels at 15psi. I'll let you all know what it makes with the new turbo and in my hi lux ute.

Its good to meet a few more ppl with turbo lexus's

600HP IS300 Turbo are running on 440cc.

Something must be wrong I guess your fuel pressure is :sick:

On a 6 cylinder engine you don't need as big injectors as on 4 cylinders. ;)

With 440cc injects and the correct fuel system setup the engine should produce more power than the transmission can ever take. :ph34r:

The fuel pressure and reg were checked but was still not getting enough fuel.. The duty cycle was maxed out..what would you change?

The car had a power run after the injectors were changed and made more power with the same amount of boost due to better mixtures.. Now I have plenty of room to play with the mixtures once the car is boosted higher (less chance of detonation).. You can't tune an injector to pump more fuel than its capable of, but you can tune an injector to pump less.

Why limit or risk your motor?

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I personally haven't owned a superchared lexus but have had the pleasure of owning a turbo charged one.

As said earlier there can be lag but it all comes back to your set up and what you want the car for.. I think supercharging is just limiting your power and future upgrades but if your happy with the amount of power that it provides and like the overall cosmetics of the supercharger. I say go for it.

Marus, It is definitly your pump. Dont know what you have in mind with the replacement or whats available over there but try a walbro 500 intank pump.

Very small, very cheap and easy to fit.

As for injectors I think you would be wanting around the 650cc. I wasn't making anymore power at 13psi because I was running out of fuel with 500cc. I upgraded to 750cc and just adjusted the duty cycle. Doesn't miss a beat.

Now just replacing the turbo because I had a internal wastegate and spring wouldn't hold boost past 15psi. It made 335hp @ wheels at 15psi. I'll let you all know what it makes with the new turbo and in my hi lux ute.

Its good to meet a few more ppl with turbo lexus's

600HP IS300 Turbo are running on 440cc.

Something must be wrong I guess your fuel pressure is :sick:

On a 6 cylinder engine you don't need as big injectors as on 4 cylinders. ;)

With 440cc injects and the correct fuel system setup the engine should produce more power than the transmission can ever take. :ph34r:

The fuel pressure and reg were checked but was still not getting enough fuel.. The duty cycle was maxed out..what would you change?

The car had a power run after the injectors were changed and made more power with the same amount of boost due to better mixtures.. Now I have plenty of room to play with the mixtures once the car is boosted higher (less chance of detonation).. You can't tune an injector to pump more fuel than its capable of, but you can tune an injector to pump less.

Why limit or risk your motor?

You can tune your fuel system to pump more fuel through the same injector. :winky:

Higher fuel pressure on same injector size = more fuel

Bigger inejector on same pressure = more fuel

Higher fuel pressure on bigger injectors = more fuel

B)

So I was wondering why you needed 750cc injects?!? :duh:

Bigger injectors on too less fuel pressure = less fuel = less power :yawn:

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I personally haven't owned a superchared lexus but have had the pleasure of owning a turbo charged one.

As said earlier there can be lag but it all comes back to your set up and what you want the car for.. I think supercharging is just limiting your power and future upgrades but if your happy with the amount of power that it provides and like the overall cosmetics of the supercharger. I say go for it.

Marus, It is definitly your pump. Dont know what you have in mind with the replacement or whats available over there but try a walbro 500 intank pump.

Very small, very cheap and easy to fit.

As for injectors I think you would be wanting around the 650cc. I wasn't making anymore power at 13psi because I was running out of fuel with 500cc. I upgraded to 750cc and just adjusted the duty cycle. Doesn't miss a beat.

Now just replacing the turbo because I had a internal wastegate and spring wouldn't hold boost past 15psi. It made 335hp @ wheels at 15psi. I'll let you all know what it makes with the new turbo and in my hi lux ute.

Its good to meet a few more ppl with turbo lexus's

600HP IS300 Turbo are running on 440cc.

Something must be wrong I guess your fuel pressure is :sick:

On a 6 cylinder engine you don't need as big injectors as on 4 cylinders. ;)

With 440cc injects and the correct fuel system setup the engine should produce more power than the transmission can ever take. :ph34r:

Different engines have different efficencys but to make a genuine 600 hp on a six cylinder you will need about 700cc injectors running 3 bar base pressure.

On the one lexus turbo i mapped,I maxed out the std injectors at .55 bar at 3.5 bar base.Of course this all depends on flow of each setup as opposed to boost pressure.It also depends on how lean each tuner is willing to run the engine.Which in turn depends on what pistons etc are in the engine.

A.I Autosport

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You can tune your fuel system to pump more fuel through the same injector.  :winky:

Higher fuel pressure on same injector size = more fuel

Bigger inejector on same pressure = more fuel

Higher fuel pressure on bigger injectors = more fuel

B)

So I was wondering why you needed 750cc injects?!?  :duh:

Bigger injectors on too less fuel pressure = less fuel = less power :yawn:

Tell me your being funny???? :lol:

Higher fuel pressure on same injector size= more fuel.. what breakfast cereal pack did you read that on?? (I wonder why they sell different size injectors then?)

Please tell me you understand that no matter how much fuel pressure you pump into a fuel rail the injectors can only flow what they are capable of..

Once again, if the fuel pressure and reg are fine but the engine is still not getting enough fuel.(on max duty) It must be because the injectors are not providing enough fuel.. as you put it :duh:

Not only is to small of an injector on a built motor limiting your power its risking your motor due to running lean. (please dont say you can up the fuel pressure) :shutit:

---> My car made more power on the same boost with bigger injectors and now has plenty of fuel for higher boost.. ---> The smaller injectors were maxed out.

So if you still dont understand why I put bigger injectors in my car I dont want to get into a debate as I'm sure it will be a waste of time.

P.s I'm sorry to everyone for getting off track but I still pick turbo :winky:

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