P.x. Prices From Parkers, Whatcar Etc - Useless?

[Lexxy_703]

i know it only really comes down to the 'price to change' amount, but i had a good nosey around a few sites to get a rough idea of what i'd be offered px & worked out an average.

i might of well not bothered as three dealers have offered me way less than i was hoping! :shutit:

so, really there isn't any point checking up as the general public don't have access to CAP info that the dealers use anyway?

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Major problem with the old IS - even the new one to a lesser degree...some will say most exec cars don't hold price well at the mo....

So you're right who knows what CAP actually states... try sell it privately first - that's what I would do...it may not be worth the hassle, but then you might get more...

[Fidgits]

The problem is dealers are thieves...

From the very beginning of my searching, I was only offered £5k for my IS200 - even though 6 months later I sold it for £6.5k to the first person to view it with no issues (could've held out for more).

Your better off selling privately - as you'll be lucky to be offered CAP prices, which are supposed to be the 'rock bottom' of the market (dealer to dealer deals etc) and not what they should offer for trade ins - they officialy should use Glass', but most dont.

If you definatly want to trade in - beat them up about the Glass' value - if they are offering CAP they need a slap.

[Steve ( West Mids )]

The problem is dealers are thieves...

Some / most I believe .....

Discuss

[TigerFish]

as you'll be lucky to be offered CAP prices, which are supposed to be the 'rock bottom' of the market (dealer to dealer deals etc) and not what they should offer for trade ins - they officialy should use Glass', but most dont.

Who/where says they should use Glass'? CAP is the industry standard for dealers to use, I don't know any that I have dealt with that use Glass' as the way to go when purchasing. Glass' have always given higher prices, hence why the dealer will use CAP to buy, and Glass' to persuade you to buy at the price they have on the forecourt. Makes perfect sense and why wouldn't they do it that way. At the end of the day, if you as an individual can buy something cheaper, you would and if you could sell it on higher, you would too. You are given a figure and you takes your choice, if you take it, no one has stolen from anybody. They are in the business to make money afterall

[Lexxy_703]

i know they're in it for the money etc & it is a business after all...

i think what annoys me most is the fact that the info that IS available to poor old muggins like us to look at is so wrong. if it's known that the stealers use CAP, why don't the sites offering the info adjust their prices accordingly for p.x. when we haven't got a hope in heck of getting what they quote at the moment! (deep breaths, must calm down :D time for that friday night bottle of plonk i think...)

i know selling private is the way to go but i'd want hubby with me when it came down to any test drive etc & he's snowed under with work at the moment - i might have someone interested & i'll go further on that over the next couple of weeks if the guy does want a look.

it's just the thought of advertising it & then having to arrange something around the other half & who ever may be interested - bit of a minefield (so i suppose i shouldn't complain about px if i can't be bothered to put the effort in with a private sale?! ).

[spikes]

remember the dealer will offer a very low price to start with,keep on at them the price will rise.

if its not enough leave your phone number,a good sales person will call you back :) give it a go

because at the end of the day its only a car.

[MacRS200]

The car market is dead at the moment, highest levels of personal debt ever, interest rates on the up, people don't want to spend money on buying cars.

You can measure depreciation in %age terms but the facts are that anything is worth what someone will pay for it.

As for selling cars, private may give you more but it can cost loads in advertising and still no sale. Remember that if you PX the important thing is the cost, e.g the difference between the trade in value and what you pay for the "new car". Both prices are up for negotiation, the dealer will start low on the trade in and high on the sale, a bit up on the trade in and a bit down on the sale and the gap narrows.

So how much to change cars is the question not what the old one made and the new one cost.

It's a buyers market right now so there never has been better time to screw the dealers :D

[Mark W]

Im with Tigerfish on this one and you have to consider the reasons why.

1) Convenience for you - drive in your car, pick up your new one. No hassles of advertising, test drives and you also have to factor in you would need to tax & insure your old car until sold. Your no claims cannot be used on more than 1 car at a time. Some insurance companies will allow a temporary additional vehicle for a charge for a minimum period (usually around 2 weeks). After then, you'll be paying full whack with zero no claims.

2) Dealer is more often than not going to have to spend some money on the car before selling it. At a minimum a full valet - probably a service & MOT - plus 12 months tax.

3) Dealer will have to provide a minimum of 3 months warranty to the new owner when they do sell it so risk of more expense

4) Dealer has to pay vat and corporation tax on any profit they make on the car. The tax is calculated on the difference between what was paid for the car and what it was sold for - irrespective of if the dealer had to spend £2000 on preparing it. No account is taken for expenditure on the car.

5) They do need to make some money - I dont believe there is much margin in the new car itself for the dealer.

Everyone has the choice to sell privately - its because of the above that most people dont - and for that youve got to expect to pay a price.

Mark.

Director - Arthur Daley Motors Ltd :)

[Lexxy_703]

yep, completely understand & agree with what your saying guys :D

i was just a little ruffled with the big diff in price from the info we have access to. hey ho!

the nearly agreed 'to change price' is pretty much what we'd budgeted for, we're off to seal (or not ;)) the deal later today.

us being picky with what we wanted AND choosing a Merc CLK Cabrio, i don't think just under 8% off OTR list price is too bad a deal is it?

[IanCornwall]

8% if you are happy with it is fine

I wouldn't be over the moon I have to admit, but I am hard negotiator and if I don't get what I want then I unleash the Dog of War Negotiator, namely the wife who sometimes I reckon they will give her the stuff to get rid of her

One holiday in Turkey she argued over a huge amount of Turkish Lira and when she walked away after about 10 minutes beating this poor guy into submission, regardless of him not eating and having 7 kids to support

She had saved 14 pence, but she was happy

Basiclaly in any deal there has to be 2 happy people, the seller and the buyer, if either isn't happy then it is a bad deal, you feel that you have paid to much and you won't go back, the seller feels he hasn't made enough look out when you go back

Quick secret with buying a car, have a look on a nice sunny day at what you want, decide on a fair price, then go back on a wet Sunday and haggle like hell, I bet you get more discount as there is no one else around he will be able to sell to

[Lexxy_703]

Do you lend your wife out Ian? i'd love to go on a shopping trip with her :winky:

i think the discount is fair on this Merc, it just about matches what i can get online with buyacar.co.uk (inc p.x.) & is cheaper than broadspeed (no p.x.).

supposedly, 8% = what they get the car 'at cost' for, according to info from an 'insider' on the MBForums (probably just a dealer to make us think we're all getting a good price! as if they would do anything like that ).

[IanCornwall]

Probably closer to 13 or 15% under list they get it for at the start of their year or sales period

Then the dealer gets extra discount if they hit and pass the target of cars sold that the manufacturer sets for them to be a franchise dealer, usually another 6 to 8 %

So a canny dealer will sell loads of cars near the margin to get past the trigger point for the extra target discount

Then they can sell cars a bit cheaper and make some money as they should be able to

Nothing wrong with making money in my book but we all love a bargain

If there is an extras list on the car you want and you want something from that list, these may seem expensive, but the dealer will get a hell of a lot more discount on extras than on the base car, usually in the region of 30%+

well worth adding extras if you really want them, and haggle like hell to get these at cost or just a bit over, it can make a hell of a difference to the overall price, even worth paying list on the car and getting free extras sometimes can work in your favour

That is why ex demo fully loaded with kitchen sink and bidet cars seem a real bargain sometimes, all the extras cost not a lot when taken in a package

Only problem with buying a Lexus is there isn't a lot missing to be added on afterwards so haggling is all about the list price

Now here is a little tip, get a price on the car you are interested in, then ask about finance, then haggle hard and a bit harder

Most dealers can make more on commision on the finance than the car itself, they won't even mind discounting the car price big time to get a whole wedge of finance commision at a good rate for them

When you have negotiated the good on finance price

Go back and tell them your Auntie / Uncle / Grandma has passed on and you can pay cash and you want it at that price

It is very difficult for them to back pedal and put the profit back into the cost you negotiated without admitting that they make a massive cut on the finance

[Gord]

Just out of intrest, how much dealer offering you for the car ?

You could put up for sale here on loc 1st tooo :winky:

[Lexxy_703]

very interesting comments Ian - thanks.

it's a Merc we're going for - actually did the deal yesterday. exactly the colour combination (which had proved to be difficult, unless we were willing to wait up to 3 months) & a bit more on the extras we originally wanted. all done for 8% discount on the original OTR price - matching at least 2 online broker/middleman type places.

Gord - because i thought we might be selling, i didn't bother renewing my Gold the BMW stealer offered me £9,000 (just managed to stop myself laughing at him! :D)

i have had a couple of enquiries, so fingers crossed!

[Gord]

very interesting comments Ian - thanks.

it's a Merc we're going for - actually did the deal yesterday. exactly the colour combination (which had proved to be difficult, unless we were willing to wait up to 3 months) & a bit more on the extras we originally wanted. all done for 8% discount on the original OTR price - matching at least 2 online broker/middleman type places.

Gord - because i thought we might be selling, i didn't bother renewing my Gold the BMW stealer offered me £9,000 (just managed to stop myself laughing at him! :D)

i have had a couple of enquiries, so fingers crossed!

All the best with new car :D

Could you pm me how much you wanting, as i know someone looking for one, i have put them in contact with the other member selling the red is300 to.