Few Questions From Possible New Ls400 Owner

[David Lo Pan]

I'm considering buying a 96 LS400. I just have a few questions about the model. As I understand it, that makes it a MK III model (95-98 MY).

I've had a reasonable test drive, and a quick perusal of the handbook - but I didn't have time for a comprehensive examination to answer all of my questions on the functions.

There appears to be a trip computer, which seems to have two memories of trip distance. Is there things like fuel / mpg information, like you get on many cars with these sort of trip computers? I couldn't see one via obvious means, but just wanted to check.

I couldn't see a button to disable traction control - I understand if there was one, it would be near the heated front seat buttons - there's a button for the headlamp cleaners, but no others. Is this an option? Or did it not appear in the UK models of this period?

Is there a service reminder warning light?

What's the cambelt renewal period? This car has already had it done (I think at 69k miles, looking at the service history book). What sort of price is it for this to be done at a Lexus dealers?

Is there any recommendations for changing the autofluid? Is it part of the normal service schedule?

Do owners bother with interim oil changes? And how much do normal services cost at Lexus dealers?

Realistically, what sort of fuel economy could I expect at 70mph (really! ;-)) using cruise, on the motorway. I currently drive just over 100 miles a weekday about 94-95 miles of that being reasonably free-flowing motorway, the rest (14-15 miles) commuting to a city centre.

I currently drive a 2.5 auto (Volvo S70) and am averaging around the 30mpg mark (according to the computer) I'm wondering what sort of difference I could expect in this LS400.

It has the Lexus tape deck with the 6 CD changer in the glovebox. I understand that the sound is pretty awesome from the stock setup?

And finally (I'll just shut up now!) what's owners general perception of the performance, compared with other fairly quickish, big cars?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Dave

[David Lo Pan]

Well I'm overwhelmed! ;-)

Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect my questions to provoke as much discussion as nerdy geeks talking about Star Trek would...

But still... I'm not about to pout and scweam and scweam about it. I can accept traffic is light, here and there's never any guarantee that you'll get your questions answered.

For what it's worth, I wasn't exactly expecting somebody to be able to answer everything in one reply - I thought perhaps the odd person would know something about selective bits - bit that's life, it's cool.

I must confess, other forums I've been involved in for other cars, have had more traffic and responsiveness for similar types of enquiry, but I guess where cars are more mainstream, and / or perhaps have more of a following, there will be more traffic.

The particular car I was initially interested in, I'm probably not about to bother about, now - although it was in very nice condition - inside and out, and the service history was good (although not quite completely as up-to-date as it might be - the dealer still seems to be touting it as having FSH, though - that's dealers for ya!) I did notice something of concern. When I look at used cars, I always have a good look under the bonnet, as well as being as thorough looking at the interior and exterior as I can.

I'm no mechanical expert, but I do have a rudimentary grasp for how things should look, and I always have a look at the oil, autofluid, coolant and the rest. I noticed that the autofluid as pretty black - I don't mean just a dark brown, but pretty black. Don't get me wrong, with a car of this age and mileage I wasn't expecting cherry red, but I've not yet seen a true black. I noted this, but put it in the back of my mind, and I thought I'd see how it was when I drove it.

I noticed when driving that it seemed ever-so-slightly to be slightly lethargic at moving on no, or light throttle - didn't seem to creep as much as some, and definetly not as much as my own car - I did consider that the LS400 was a big heavy car, and when it first truly noticed, it was whilst queueing on a fairly steep incline up to a roundabout. It seems there was a slight bit of slippage in first - in all other ways, though, the autobox seemed completely fine - no clunks or rough changes, no obvious slippage in other gears, no reluctance to kick-down.

Thinking about this, later, this and the black autofluid troubled me - black is bad for autofluid - something has happened for it to get black, as opposed to merely the red dye breaking down over time, and the fluid being a brown colour. I spoke to a local autobox expert and they were reserved and said they'd not had much trouble with Lexus gearboxes, but they agreed - black was bad. And said it would be hard to know whether this was a minor problem easily rectified, or whether it suggested impending doom.

So with that in mind, I won't bother with that particular example - which is a shame, because in all other respects, it was a fine example. I don't want to buy one, and be worried about having a big expensive failure imminent.

I do wonder what may have happened to it - possibly towed for whatever reason, and not had the proper precautions taken - or perhaps just one of those things. I know with my current car, main dealers seem very reluctant to do autofluid changes as part of ongoing servicing ('cept for use in harsh or commercial conditions - eg as a taxi) - so I suspect that in many cases it doesn't get done, unless the owner specifically insists. Perhaps this contributes to the odd case where things look slightly awry.

I did look at another LS400 same age and plate (P reg) - more miles, though - slightly over 150k miles. The autofluid on that was a more encouraging brown colour - but the rest of the car looked a whole deal more tired and unloved. Scuffs on bumpers, bodywork unloved - evidence of chips on the edges of the doors, so the previous owner obviously hadn't been that careful. The mileage wouldn't have necessarily put me off, but the condition just made me feel like it hadn't been looked after - although it looked OK from the mystical "5 yards" ;-)

So I'll keep looking, there's another one not to far away I might look at.

My reasons for wanting an LS400, being that I've always liked the bigger cars like the BMW 7s, the S Class Mercs and the A8s, but the LS400 seems to offer that sort of class of car, perhaps a bit more anonymous and less "in your face" which quite appeals, too, and having the famed reliability and build quality that's associated with the main Japanese car manufacturers.

If anyone has any feedback on any of my questions in the original post - I'd be more grateful, but if not - hey, that's life.

Cheers

Dave

[Birchall]

Hi Dave,

I have also found the site to be pretty slow to but I suppose it is better than having no site at all (like some Marques).

I would have liked to help with your queries, but my LS400 is a 91 and a Japanese import at that and so my car is quite different.

Black transmission fluid can often mean slipping bands (the black is the burnt lining material, probably verified by the "lack of creep") so you did well to avoid the car.

Mine has a traction control switch on the central console above the ash tray so I would be suprised if the later models don't have one.

As for MPG I am very pleased with mine, I have normally had large and thirsty cars and I cannot class the Lexus as thirsty. Try as I might I cannot get LESS than 20 mpg and at a cruise speed of 70 I would get around 23 - 25 mpg which in my humble opinion is amazing for a heavy car with a 4.0 litre V8.

In all I prefer the Lexus to the Mercedes and BMW 7s I have owned because they age so well and they are at least different to most of the "ordinary" cars.

I hpe that someone with a similar car to yours can offer some more relevant advice.

And as for the slow response on this site then I would rather belong to a club with a handful of members than one that has so many that there is no common link other than a badge.

Good luck

Steve B

[David Lo Pan]

Hi Dave,

I have also found the site to be pretty slow to but I suppose it is better than having no site at all (like some Marques).

I would have liked to help with your queries, but my LS400 is a 91 and a Japanese import at that and so my car is quite different.

Black transmission fluid can often mean slipping bands (the black is the burnt lining material, probably verified by the "lack of creep") so you did well to avoid the car.

Mine has a traction control switch on the central console above the ash tray so I would be suprised if the later models don't have one.

As for MPG I am very pleased with mine, I have normally had large and thirsty cars and I cannot class the Lexus as thirsty. Try as I might I cannot get LESS than 20 mpg and at a cruise speed of 70 I would get around 23 - 25 mpg which in my humble opinion is amazing for a heavy car with a 4.0 litre V8.

In all I prefer the Lexus to the Mercedes and BMW 7s I have owned because they age so well and they are at least different to most of the "ordinary" cars.

I hpe that someone with a similar car to yours can offer some more relevant advice.

And as for the slow response on this site then I would rather belong to a club with a handful of members than one that has so many that there is no common link other than a badge.

Good luck

Steve B

<<<I have also found the site to be pretty slow to but I suppose it is better than having no site at all (like some Marques).>>>

Indeed!

I was merely a little suprised, because the site seems to be quite developed, and impressive looking. But I guess it does stand to reason that models such as the LS400 are quite a minority, compared with say something like a Mondeo or Vectra.

<<<I would have liked to help with your queries, but my LS400 is a 91 and a Japanese import at that and so my car is quite different.>>>

Nevertheless, your feedback is appreciated - and is of some relevance.

<<<Black transmission fluid can often mean slipping bands (the black is the burnt lining material, probably verified by the "lack of creep") so you did well to avoid the car.>>>

Yeah, I think so. It could be something very minor, easily rectified by a fluid change, or it could be impending doom - but as reliability and avoidance of big bills is right up there in my list of importance, I'm not about to take the chance. There's another one that I'll probably take a look at, it's a shame about this one, though, because it's the only thing (apart from the service history not being quite as up-to-date as the dealer is claiming ;-)) I could fault on it, and otherwise is in excellent condition.

<<<Mine has a traction control switch on the central console above the ash tray so I would be suprised if the later models don't have one.>>>

Do you know if traction control is an option? Is it possible that the car didn't have it? Or merely that there was no switch to turn it off? I guess I'm wondering whether the lack of the switch is indicative of it not being present, or merely not being disableable (that a real word?).

It would seem odd, though, for a relatively late model car, with that amount of power to not have traction control - but I do wonder, with comments / hints I've read on the net.

<<<As for MPG I am very pleased with mine, I have normally had large and thirsty cars and I cannot class the Lexus as thirsty. Try as I might I cannot get LESS than 20 mpg and at a cruise speed of 70 I would get around 23 - 25 mpg which in my humble opinion is amazing for a heavy car with a 4.0 litre V8.>>>

Looking at the figures on Parkers, and the Lexus website, they don't appear leaps and bounds different from my current car (S70 2.5 auto) - so I'm assuming that I won't get quite as much mileage, but not a great deal different.

I couldn't see any obvious fuel computer when I was test driving it, though, as they are normally a good indication (I accept they are not completely accurate). That struck me as odd, too - but it could be I just didn't know where / how to look, or that this model year (MK III?) didn't have one.

<<<In all I prefer the Lexus to the Mercedes and BMW 7s I have owned because they age so well and they are at least different to most of the "ordinary" cars. >>>

Classy, but understated. Not as obvious as the German big cars - perhaps more anonymous from the outside - which is what I'm looking for. Hopefully (especially at the age I'm looking at) better reliability than the big German equivalent cars, too.

<<<And as for the slow response on this site then I would rather belong to a club with a handful of members than one that has so many that there is no common link other than a badge.>>>

I hope I haven't been perceived as complaining - that's not my intent - I'm under no illusions that help in such forums shouldn't be demanded, and should be taken in good faith - and if it's not forthcoming that's just life. I was merely a little surprised given the infrastructure here (the site, looks impressive, well structured), but relatively light traffic - mere slight suprise, nothing more. I'm grateful for any help I might get - wouldn't dream of biting the hand that feeds me (metaphorically speaking).

<<<Good luck>>>

Many thanks for your feedback - much appreciated.

Cheers

Dave

[Birchall]

Hi David,

No problem, I knew that you were not complaining. :D

I just wanted to say my bit in defence of the site in case any new browsers thought that it was hardly manned etc.

Thank you for your comments.

(I knew that you were a nice intelligent caring person anyway because you are buying a Lexus !!)

Cheers :)

Steve Birchall

[Kazetachi]

Hi Dave,

I own a 95' MKIII and wrote up all my experiences, in order to lower your frustration with this forum. I have repeatedly tried to post it, but to no avail. Finally I sent you the text in a private message, but apparently you didn't get that either. If this message makes it to the forum, I'll give it another try.

[Matthew_McNally]

Hi Dave,

I own a 95' MKIII and wrote up all my experiences, in order to lower your frustration with this forum. I have repeatedly tried to post it, but to no avail. Finally I sent you the text in a private message, but apparently you didn't get that either. If this message makes it to the forum, I'll give it another try.

Kazetachi

what problems did you have with the forum and the private messaging?

we use very stable and leading edge forum software - and I am surprised to hear of problems like this.

If you let us kno hat problems you had, then I'm sure we can help you resolve them.

[Kazetachi]

Hi Dave,

I'm sorry that you didn't get any responses to your questions. I tried to post this earlier, but I guess my new Opera 7.02 somehow didn't make it. I did however not get any error messages, yet the posting never appeared. Pretty strange. If you're reading this, it obviously worked :-) So here goes:

I am living on the continent, and I don't look into this forum too often. But I own just the MK III you have been looking at ('95), and although I can't answer all your questions, I do have some inputs which I hope might reduce your disappointment. Firstly, to see what we're talking about, check http://users.skynet.be/xel/lexus/LS400. These photographs were taken three weeks before the time of writing. As you can see, the car is in pretty good shape for having been nearly six times around the world. This is still the factory condition, nothing major has been done to it so far.

The details:

There is no trip computer. There are however two different trip meters that can be reset independently. That's it.

In my model there is a way to disable the traction control (not that I need it though). The button ("TRC OFF") is located next to the headlight cleaners. Look at the zoom photograph on http://users.skynet.be/xel/lexus/LS400/int-L-13.jpg. It's top/left. However, if you didn't see it in the car you looked at, that could indeed mean that the UK models don't have it. I don't know about that. BTW: the traction control does an excellent job. Mine comes to action once or twice a day. I regularly have to drive uphill on a slippery, winding road. With the traction control on, I just step on it. Excellent. Wouldn't want to miss it.

According to the handbook, the car does not have a special service reminder light. It has separate check lights for engine, airbags, brakes, generator, oil pressure, oil level, ABS function etc. I have never seen any of them come on unexpectedly.

Cambelts should be changed every 100,000km. I had that done just recently when I had it in for the 200,000km service, parts were approximately 450 EUR. BTW, I have all servicing done at my local Lexus dealer. While the car was in the shop, I had them replace the windscreen (too many impacts), 475 EUR, small parts included. The spark plugs were due, and almost all the engine fluids were exchanged. That was the fattest bill I ever had with a Lexus, and it came to 1765 EUR, labour and taxes included.

The most recent service was 275 EUR and consisted of brake pads, oil pan drain gasket, oil filter, oil and few other fluids, labour and taxes included. Can't really complain there.

My normal daily driving pattern these days is 10 km on a normal road with some traffic, 25 km on an autoroute cruising at 120-125 km/h with moderate traffic, and finally 5 km on a two-lane road with the last km winding and slippery (see above).

The average consumption in mixed traffic is 12 litres for 100km. But when I drive longer autoroute distances with the cruise control on and very little traffic, consumption can go down to 10.5 litres for 100km. Sometimes, however, our LS gets a run on the German autobahn, and then we're talking about more than 14 litres. The speedometer has occasionally shown 270km/h, and it is not too far off. I attempted to calibrate it with a stop watch while my wife was trying to keep the car at a steady 240km/h, and on a three km long strip I measured an average of 235 km/h. Wind noise at that speed is still negligible, and the engine noise is merely a hum. The air suspension does a perfect job. Third gear red-lines at approx 215km/h and by then the car is actually sucked against the ground. The power steering becomes stiffer and it feels totally different from the soft and gentle behaviour at low speeds. However, there is not much driving sensation below 200km/h, it still feels like cruising, so one might as well set the cruise control to the legal speed limit and cruise along. Cruise control is the best I have ever driven with. I practically always use it, even on two lane roads and in town.

The history of car defects so far:

a) Three years ago the steering wheel inclination sensor developed a few bad spots, sometimes the steering wheel did not come back to the memory position. Was exchanged, the part cost about 45 Euros.

b) Two small pipes that recirculate from exhaust back into the intakes (apparently something that has to do with emission control) started to develop small cracks. When I stepped on it, I could actually hear soft noises from the exhaust, which is not normal for an LS ;-). So I had them replaced, 185 EUR total. Now it's back to absolute silence, the way it should be :-)

c) When the car was two years old, the radio display lost some of its vertical LED segments. But the whole unit was replaced under warranty, no problems since.

That was it, as far as problems are concerned.

Why did I buy an LS400 in the first place? I originally wanted an S-class Mercedes. Unfortunately (for Mercedes) I had a test drive with the LS 400's competitor at the time, the 400 SEL, and found that slightly disappointing. The car was pretty noisy, the body feeling heavy (if not sluggish) and the engine unresponsive. So I booked me a test drive with a 7-series BMW. That was even worse. Engine noise in the passenger compartment for a car of that class is a nightmare, and I was absolutely not impressed with the performance of the suspension. Not stiff enough to be sporty, and not comfortable enough to be luxurious. And personally I don't like the interior of the Mercedes nor the BMW, but that is of course a matter of personal taste. The following test drive with the LS400 was pretty amazing. That car fit me like a glove. Every button is where I expected it, I immediately liked the no-nonsense approach. And the fluorescent meters. And the negligible amount of wind noise and the total absence of engine noise, together with a perfect finish and craftsmanship. And the air suspension. And the turn radius of that big car, which never ceases to amaze me. Our smaller car is nearly one meter shorter than the LS400, but with its front-wheel drive it needs almost two more meters to turn.

So finally I got me an LS400, and have never regretted it. Almost six times around the world, no wear, no tear, no nothing. No measurable oil consumption, no sign of a transmission wearing out or of bearings collapsing. Nothing. When you open the passenger compartment, it still smells of new leather. And everything is still original.

What you heard about the stock Pioneer CD with the 6-fold changer in the glovebox is absolutely correct (I practically never listen to tape or radio). Most people would probably consider me an audiophile. But when driving in the car, I certainly do not need any better than that stock system. There is now much talk about the high end Mark Levinson system in the LS430 and SC430. I recently had an LS430 for a test weekend, and I must say that the Mark Levinson system is indeed better (more transparency, real concert hall atmosphere). However, I also have to confess that I had to drag my best classical DDD recordings from the shelf before I could hear much of a difference (under normal driving conditions).

So is this LS400 thing perfect? Nope. Here's the down-side, from a few years and kilometers of experience:

If you're going through fast s-shaped corners, then the steering and handling could be better. It's pretty fast, but at low and moderate speeds it isn't a sports car.

On a bumpy road the air suspension guesses its setting right most of the time, but not always. And when it doesn't, then the car feels a little jumpy, almost like an American car of two decades ago.

On cold mornings the engine idles at 1,600 to 1,800 rpm, which means that I go through town at 70km/h, having no foot on the throttle. So I have to shift it into lower gears for one or two minutes, and brake hard at the first traffic light. I don't like that. My dealer sees no way how he can change this.

When you have the air conditioning on, then it will activate and de-activate the compressor in intervals. Every time it does that, engine electronics will compensate the engine regime by approximately 200 rpm. It probably doesn't need to do that, but that's the way it is designed. My dealer can't change that. With the kind of torque of the V8 however, when the engine idle goes up by 200 rpm and your foot is only lightly on the brake, you could actually be pushed forward quite a bit. Especially at traffic lights, or when entering my garage, I find this pretty disturbing.

And finally, the whole car is rather air tight. This unfortunately means that you need a bit of force to close the doors. Often my passengers or even myself do not apply enough force, and then we have to open and close the door again. Unless of course you have the sunroof or one of the windows open. Then a gentle push will be sufficient. The whole thing is unbecoming of a luxury car.

But that's all, and when you look that critically onto an LS400 and its competitors, bearing in mind its age, you will probably find more weak points with the competitors.

All summed up, if you currently own a 2.5 litre Volvo, and if you're actually driving more than 100 miles per day, I would recommend that you get yourself an LS400. You will not regret that, and when you arrive, you will step out of the car much more relaxed. At least that's the way it works for me. Daily.

Hope that helps... :-)

Greetings,

Kazetachi

[Monster-Mat]

thats a very good review.

where in europe are you?

i think it took a long time for replys, is there just arnt that many LS400 Owners around on these boards, but its nice to get more and more, theres actually more SC430 owners now, so your a special bunch :)

[Kazetachi]

I live in Flanders.

[redfox]

David,

I've had big Volvos, 3 Jaguars and 2 LS400's.

In answer to some of your questions:-

The LS400 trip computer is built into the main sat/nav touch sensitive screen computer - very detailed analysis of mpg etc.

If I do a long Mway journey I get about 27mpg. Short stop/start journeys about 21mpg.

Intermediate oil changes - I don't bother.

Traction Control button on my car is to the left of the headlight wash button, but to be honest, if you switch the TC off, then you'll simply burn rubber every time you pull away - there is a lot of power coming out of that engine!

First LS400 I did 120,000 miles in 3 years and nothing (except one lightbulb, which blew) ever went wrong. Current LS400 I've got 46,000 miles on so far and once again, nothing wrong to report.

Jaguars needed a lot of preventive maintenance at the garage, Volvo was similar to Lexus ownership experience except the LS400 as one hell of an engine and can be made to really fly when you want to.

[LIGHTYEAR]

Hi David,

this is a good site, but for a slightly bigger audience go CLUBLEXUS.COM.

As to your Q's, I would suggest that with a decent LS400 running (purring) along as as well maintained one should at a steady 75 mph (cruise control on) you should get close to 28 / 30 mpg. My Mk III 1995 does.

Traction control is not standard, I do not have it, but while the car does not fly off the mark with only a small amount of right foot pressure, put the box into ECT PWR push your foot down and the baby will fly. Bear in mind this car weighs close to 2 tons and even with 260 horses doing the work it takes a lot to over come that sort of inertia. However, at almost any speed (and I do mean almost any speed) kick down and she will fly. If you are in the sports mode you can get the car to double kick down, get the revs up near the red line and you really do fly. There are not really many other cars that can stay with the LS then.

Bear in mind tho' this is not a sports car, but a car that cossets you and allow you to dive all day and still leave the right hand front door as fresh a s adaisy.

Be careful with your purchase, get a car with a full dealer service history but do not get too hung up on mileage. There are many guys on clublexus with LS400's with over 250,000 miles and some with over 300,000. How she has been looked after is the most important thing, it is reciprocal - look after her and she will look after you. Are all of the stamps coincidental with the service intervals in the service manual. Basically at least once a year or every 9000 miles. "A" service "A" service then major or "B" service. Cam Belt change at every 60 000 miles along with new plugs.

The LS400 is not over burdened with little elctronic gadgets for the driver to play with, but in reality who really needs those disrtactions, any additional connections that can go wrong and cost you money. The 7 series BMW is apparently prone to computer glitches and having an indication of you mpg and every twist and turn is not really neccessary. you will soon learn to judge how well you are doing and feel the pinch if you have to fill up the 85 litre tank too often !!!

My car is a 1995 mk III with 122,000 miles on the clock. I love the gentle tick of the engine and roar when I do want her to move, but for normal use this unit is never under any stress and should last a long time if shown repsect.

[Paulrwales]

Hi David i don't think i could add anything further to these comments. We have had our MK2 for a short while now and its nothing short of brilliant. The economy is far less than our previous car a E300 diesel but still there is no comparison for comfort so some sacrifices have to be made. The LS is easy to drive and quiet with take-off type acceleration yet looks as others say too, more discreet than a Mercedes, so i guess it gets noticed more because they aren't as common as the other big luxury cars

Paul :arrrggg-matey:

[johntyrrell]

Hi David, I must agree with previous comments about the LS400. Ihave had mine since last August and am highly delighted with it. It is truely luxurious to ride in and is so smooth and quiet after my Mercedes and as I am a classical music lover the CD player is just superb, it is just like being in a concert hall. I also like the fact that it is a classy vehicle without being as obvious about it as a Mercedes. As for fuel consumption, I regularly get about 21 m.p.g. driving around town on short journeys and a staggering 31 m.p.g. when cruising on motorways at about 75 m.p.h. and I have done repeated checks on this as the first time it happened I could hardly believe it.

Needless to say I am now a convert to the Lexus fraternity and will not be changing my car for a while yet.