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im24601

Is200/300 Tyre Wear

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I dont know, why doesnt someone at Lexus GB have the nads to come on here and admit that they got it wrong. come on guys its a sign of strength not a weakness admitting you were wrong.

all the test engineers doing all those hundreds even thousands of test miles didnt pick this up before the IS200/300 went into full production. well its not the first time a small quality control issue has slipped through. but I have a feeling that our Japanese friends dont like to admit that they are wrong or ever be seen to lose face, I guess its a cultural thing ;)

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Lexus G.B. will not admit on a public forum they were wrong IMO because of the possible

legal action they would face from customers, for replacement Tyres & Tracking Adjustments

customers have paid for several times over on each car completely unnessasarily,

(either to Lexus directly or to Fast Fit car centres, local garages etc).

The consequences could lead into 100's of thousands of pounds of payout's or more :megaangry:

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Wozza it'll be alot more than £100,000's mate

Say there are 11,000 IS200 drivers that have all had the geometry done due to inner tyre wear, lexus GB admit there wrong and so everyone enquires about refunds.

11,000 x 100 (for geometry setting) = £1,100,000.

Then there are people who spent money on tracking at lexus or an independant garage

5,500 x 100 = £550,000.

Then there are also tyres that people have had to change early due to the inner tyre wear

11,000 x 240 (set of 4 60 per tyre) = £2,640,000.

So roughly without compensation and an actual number the figure would be closer to £4,290,000.

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Oh dear !!

Head up above the parapet.....

The IS is more or less 10 years old now, and well out of current model production. Many IS appear to have been modded, many pranged, run up kerbs,new alloys or whatever...i would be overwhelmed if Lex were willing to 'go back' in this way....their main issue is surely the IS still on the dealer forecourts (not for long now either)...and that's probably buyer beware...experienced IS owners can make sure certain items are dealt with before purchase (alloys, IS300 headlamps etc) and if they won't sort the settings knock off another £150 and go and see the Doc. If you buy private or back street you don't know how c##p the settings are anyway, with or without the initial car's settings....

I'm just blissfully happy that the car only has about half a dozen potential issues in total, if they happen at all (eg.coil packs, err3) much better and easier to sleep at night I think than most other 10 year olds knocking about !!

Head quickly down below parapet again........be gentle with me !!

:tomato:

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I mentioned that it would be difficult to get Lexus UK to admit liability on the geometry/tyre wear issue on the mk1 IS200 in Im24601's thread titled 'Initial Post, Treat me gently. Below is my post that I posted on that thread:-

"Im24601, I can understand your frustration regarding the extreme/uneven tyrewear on your IS, I too (like most of the IS200/300 owners on LOC) have experienced extreme/uneven tyrewear on our cars. I don't think you (or anyone else) would be able to get Lexus GB/Toyota to admit liability on the extreme/uneven tyre wear issue on the mk1 IS. If they did admit liability, just think how many people would be claiming for tyres, previous wheel alignment attempts, stress, loss of faith in their cars etc. I discussed this with Tony at WIM when I had by geometry done.

Remember the mk1 IS was not just sold in the UK, it was sold all over Europe, the US and in Asia (as the Altezza). The financial costs to Lexus/Toyota would run into millions if they compenstated all IS owners.

Best thing is to get Tony at WIM to do a full geometry setup/check (if you have not already had it done) and your car will be transformed. Once you've done this- move on. That reminds, I'm now due a fine tune by Tony now..."

My main points:

1. I can't see Lexus UK admiting liability of bad geometry setup on the mk1 IS200/300, although I wish IM24601 good luck in his attempt to get Lexus UK to admit liability on the bad geometry setup on the mk1 IS.

2. Janet is right, the mk1 IS is a 10 year old design now, why would Lexus/Toyota want to spend money/time/resources on correcting the geometry settings on a 10 year old design?

3. Say IF Lexus UK did admit that they got the geometry settings wrong and they did offer compensation who would be entitled to the compensation? Present IS owners? or past IS owners who may have owned an IS and they decided to get rid of their cars because they couldn't fix the tyre wear problem? What would Lexus UK be compensating? tyres, geometry test fees (which may have be done at Lexus dealerships, fast-fit centres or specialist geometry centres like WIM)

If I have said anything out of order, please feel free to comment.

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Wozza it'll be alot more than £100,000's mate

Erm I think I said that

The consequences could lead into 100's of thousands of pounds of payout's or more :megaangry:

We shall see if they actually admit to the issue they have swept under the carpet and denied existed,

and then found a remedy for, whilst still denying the original customer issue of chronic Inner Front Tyre Wear.

My guess it that they won't, but only time will tell. (or BBC Watchdog/Top Gear :whistling:)

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I know you said maybe more i just waited to have my say as i was feeling left out :blush:

The only thing about taking Lexus to watchdog etc are we not shooting ourselves in the foot? Will this not decrease the value of used IS's even further than they already are and hugely tarnish the lexus reputation?

I would luv to see justice done but maybe we could be opening pandoras box!!

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As the originator of this thread I'll be happy if Lexus review their geometry settings and, ultimately, change them to the tried and tested ones that Tony has - informing every single dealership to this effect.

By highlighting this issue (beit here or in the populist motoring media) resulting in just one person checking their tyres on the inner edges and deciding to have them changed, and NOT making that 200 mile trip to granny's up/down the motorway until the tyres are changed - a trip which, had they made, it would have resulted in one or both front tyres bursting at 70mph and wiping out 2 generations of one family - it'll all be worth it.

However,

Do I feel we are due compensation? Hell yes.

Do I feel we are due an apology? Most definitely.

Do I feel I am due an apology for being lied to by Lexus Oxford and General Manager of Customer Relations? Err, yes.

Do I also feel that we have a case for litigation? I don't know enough about the law to answer that, nor give an opinion - but my solicitor feels we have definite grounds.

I find the silence from Lexus GB deafening...

If no response is received to my letter to the MD of Lexus GB by one week today (11 March) I shall be proposing a day to go to Epsom some time this month. I'll suggest a couple ofr three days - and whichever is most popular we'll go for. Needless to say, everyone will be welcome to come along. We'll refer to it as "the Surrey Meet"!

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I went through 3 pairs of front tyres in under a year (roughly 6-8000 odd miles) when i got my my IS from lex croydon......very annoying, however i wasnt too bothered as i got them to replace them, then i went to Mr Bones in May 2005, still running the same front set :) !!....Tony will need them changed when i come back for me fine tune.....get that centre open :winky:

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I went through 3 pairs of front tyres in under a year (roughly 6-8000 odd miles) when i got my my IS from lex croydon......very annoying, however i wasnt too bothered as i got them to replace them, then i went to Mr Bones in May 2005, still running the same front set :) !!....Tony will need them changed when i come back for me fine tune.....get that centre open :winky:

I'm desperately working on it :) ...... A few more weeks then the equipment goes in.

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After reading this thread I went and checked my three month old Goodyear 205/55's that have covered no more than 2000 miles. Already it's clear that the offside front is wearing on the inner edge. The drivers side seems okay. These miles are short stop start urban driving stuff so no blame can be placed on hard cornering or bad driving style and I check the pressures every week. Looks like I'll be out with the jack in the morning to do some swapping around. Just for the record I paid €125.00 a corner for decent rubber.

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As the originator of this thread I'll be happy if Lexus review their geometry settings and, ultimately, change them to the tried and tested ones that Tony has - informing every single dealership to this effect.

Any Lexus owner can ask Tony for the revised settings and pass them onto any garage that wants to reset the geo.

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The point is Scorps01, that we know that Tony has the true settings because we are here and have probably contacted Tony at one point or t'other.

This forum does not reach every Lexus owner/driver in the UK - I've had my car nigh on 5 yrs and only found this website (through a Google search for "Lexus, tyres, excessive wear" ironically) a few weeks ago.

By each and every Lexus dealership having the correct settings, no more will those not members here get stung and hopefully their tyres will be safer for longer. Immediatley, the risk factor of driving on Lexus' settings decreases (is that litigious?).

I fail to comprehend why there are some on this forum who are dismissive of what we (myself and a few others) are trying to do. None of this is for our personal benefit - it is a safety issue and Lexus can advise their customers who aren't members here of the correct settings.

Is it so wrong to want that?

And, I have today received a letter from Lexus - to be posted on the other thread shortly...

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As the originator of this thread I'll be happy if Lexus review their geometry settings and, ultimately, change them to the tried and tested ones that Tony has - informing every single dealership to this effect.

Any Lexus owner can ask Tony for the revised settings and pass them onto any garage that wants to reset the geo.

I have sent members wim's settings to take to the dealers and they refuse to set the car to them?.... After calling a few the reason is that they are "not allowed" to deviate from the settings Lexus wrote for the car.

I suppose this is the joy of being a franchise or the fear of liability if they deviate?

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As the originator of this thread I'll be happy if Lexus review their geometry settings and, ultimately, change them to the tried and tested ones that Tony has - informing every single dealership to this effect.

Any Lexus owner can ask Tony for the revised settings and pass them onto any garage that wants to reset the geo.

I have sent members wim's settings to take to the dealers and they refuse to set the car to them?.... After calling a few the reason is that they are "not allowed" to deviate from the settings Lexus wrote for the car.

I suppose this is the joy of being a franchise or the fear of liability if they deviate?

hmm.. didnt we establish that lexus nottingham did infact use the WIM settings on my car?? surely that is some admission or knowledge that there is a 'fix' out there...

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Maybe Tony could answer this...Maybe lexus use THERE settings as to not put extra stress on other components on the cars...i.e like the shocks ,springs ,anti roll bars , bushes etc..? im no mechanic but just seems to ME that there maybe a bigger issue to this than settings on the geometry...like making the tyres take the stress and strain rather than anything else?

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By highlighting this issue (beit here or in the populist motoring media) resulting in just one person checking their tyres on the inner edges and deciding to have them changed, and NOT making that 200 mile trip to granny's up/down the motorway until the tyres are changed - a trip which, had they made, it would have resulted in one or both front tyres bursting at 70mph and wiping out 2 generations of one family - it'll all be worth it.

Having had a blowout at 70 mph in the IS on the M25 the car behaved as it should of...no dramas, held a straight line and slowed down pulling over to the h/shoulder, the reason cars crash after a b/out is people panic and do the wrong thing i.e brake!! a big no no at 70mph thats what will throw you towards the central reservation or flip you over into a roll.

Im not saying what your doing is wrong, be happy that you have found a place that will help you find a solution to your problem.....LOC and WIM, it will be impossible to reach every IS owner.

Good luck

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Maybe Tony could answer this...Maybe lexus use THERE settings as to not put extra stress on other components on the cars...i.e like the shocks ,springs ,anti roll bars , bushes etc..? im no mechanic but just seems to ME that there maybe a bigger issue to this than settings on the geometry...like making the tyres take the stress and strain rather than anything else?

No..... The problem is the castor angle not the camber angle, if the camber was wrong then wheel bearings and alike would wear rapidly.

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Maybe Tony could answer this...Maybe lexus use THERE settings as to not put extra stress on other components on the cars...i.e like the shocks ,springs ,anti roll bars , bushes etc..? im no mechanic but just seems to ME that there maybe a bigger issue to this than settings on the geometry...like making the tyres take the stress and strain rather than anything else?

No..... The problem is the castor angle not the camber angle, if the camber was wrong then wheel bearings and alike would wear rapidly.

cheers tony for clearing that up...just dont understand why they have such a big problem with using your settings as there are lots of people to prove that they are correct....just seems to me that they LEXUS GB are covering up what is a relativly a straight forward solution?

OR is there more to this than meets the eye?

YOU open one can of worms the whole lot come out..type of issue.?

Well i know who i will only trust with doing my geometry in my cars life...and it wont be LEXUS..

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cheers tony for clearing that up...just dont understand why they have such a big problem with using your settings as there are lots of people to prove that they are correct....just seems to me that they LEXUS GB are covering up what is a relativly a straight forward solution?

OR is there more to this than meets the eye?

YOU open one can of worms the whole lot come out..type of issue.?

Well i know who i will only trust with doing my geometry in my cars life...and it wont be LEXUS..

Well a few dealers have used my settings...... What's ironic is the target camber positions are still within there checking range so i don't violate anything.... I think there a two main reasons why dealers/ tyre centres struggle with my settings...

1: The procedure looks horrific

2: Understanding the need to correct the nonadjustable castor

And this is why?

1: The small change in camber aggressively moves the toe (it looks worrying) then the toe correction moves the castor.

2: The camber and castor have a relationship on the corner... As the wheels are turned the castor plays a big part in moving the cars weight from one place on the tyres contact patch to another.

I think Chris will succeed because he's not looking for compensation..... He's looking for justice and this cannot be gagged.

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I think Chris will succeed because he's not looking for compensation..... He's looking for justice and this cannot be gagged.

That is not true, he has already stated he want's compensation. This would open the flood gates to every other IS owner who has had wear problems. This is the reason I think Lexus will not give in. Maybe there could be an out of court settlement, with I would assume a gag clause in it to stop any further puplishing of the result.

Just out of interest, and I know this is a difficult one to answer, but does every single IS wear the tyres like this? or are there ones out there on the original Lexus geo settings that are not having problems?

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I think Chris will succeed because he's not looking for compensation..... He's looking for justice and this cannot be gagged.

That is not true, he has already stated he want's compensation. This would open the flood gates to every other IS owner who has had wear problems. This is the reason I think Lexus will not give in. Maybe there could be an out of court settlement, with I would assume a gag clause in it to stop any further puplishing of the result.

Just out of interest, and I know this is a difficult one to answer, but does every single IS wear the tyres like this? or are there ones out there on the original Lexus geo settings that are not having problems?

Ok well i think his main intention is justice..... Personally i would go for gold in veiw of what they did to his car.....

As for every Lexus.... I think yes to varying extents, the 99 plate had different settings so less problematic but the general IS200/300 range does have issues...

I widen the picture i deal with several cars a day around the UK who need the data for their place of choice... World mail i delete (no time to reply)

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