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im24601

The Response From The Md Of Lexus Gb Ltd

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Believe it or not, I too am 100% behind what is being attempted here and I to believe they are wrong. I am not neccesarily 100% behind the way you have done it or your logic behind it. For instance, using the safety card. Like it or not, you should be checking your tyres. If you don't, it is you who is putting your safety at risk, not Lexus. Now I am no geometry expert, and Tony may well be able to shed some technical light on it, but does the geo setup that Lexus use inherently have a safety issue in another way? i.e. to oversteer or understeer or whatever in a dangerous fashion? What I am trying to say is that maybe you can persue the safety card from a different angle, as IMO, the one you have chosen is putting yourself forward as the negligent one, and this would be such an easy thing for Lexus to get off with in court.

Well done on your other victories BTW, although of course without knowing what "most men aspire to" means, I can't possibly comment if those victories help with this particular one.

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Get the US Forums involved as if this is a U.S.A issue too, that is a scary one for Lexus Worldwide,

and who may well make then sit up and take notice.

The last time I replied to a post on the LOC USA forum, didn't exactly stir the Americans into any kind of reaction...if you read the post one comment was: -

'I bought one the very first IS300's to be sold in Houston. As long as the alignment is within specs...you WILL get inside tread wear. That IS normal for the handling characteristics of the car.' :sad: Oh, so that's OK then...not

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...mp;hl=tire+wear

and others....

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...mp;hl=tire+wear

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...p;hl=inner+tire

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Picture this conversation in court......

Mr Bones.....(Doc)

Q: In your professional opinion is the handling or braking performance of the IS200/300 impaired

A: No

Q: Do you feel the design in the chassis is flawed?

A: Yes

Q: Why?

A: The position of the cars weight is not perfectly placed at the tyre footprint during cornering so the handling and braking is impaired.

Q: But you said the handling and braking wasn't impaired

A: It's acceptable to most but can be improved!

Q: Lexus has stated the inner tyre wear is a simple trait of the car and it's the duty of the owners to check their tyres/ pressures in regular intervals, do you agree with this?

A: Absolutely not!!... By design no respected manufacturer would make a car that wears tyres to the wire in as little a 5000 miles..... It's like buying a pair of shoes and wearing out the heel at the end of the road, is that acceptable?

Q: Seemingly your positions belay the tyre wear? why haven't Lexus adopted these new positions?

A: Politics and liabilities in my opinion.. wim released the data to the public domain in 05, the solution is hardly a mystery, we are not trying to capture the calibration market.

Q: What consequences do you feel this fashion of tyre wear has had to Lexus owners?

A: Devastating, not just in material costs but i also feel in lives.... The wear is so rapid and violent i feel the tyre failure could have been fatal somewhere in the world

And that's food for thought.... It's not just about the tyre wear, it's about the danger of the wear...

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Q: Lexus has stated the inner tyre wear is a simple trait of the car and it's the duty of the owners to check their tyres/ pressures in regular intervals, do you agree with this?

A: Absolutely not!!... By design no respected manufacturer would make a car that wears tyres to the wire in as little a 5000 miles..... It's like buying a pair of shoes and wearing out the heel at the end of the road, is that acceptable?

The question you have asked yourself is rather ambiguous. Which of the two questions are you answering "absolutely not" to?

Are you saying that an owner should not be checking their tyres? That I would find a strange opinion.

or are you saying that the it is not a trait of the car?? which of course we are all agreed on.

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Mr Bones (Doc)

Q. So since the arival of the IS in 1999 have you seen/heard of any tyre wear related accidents/deaths either on T.V

radio or Motor Magazine articles?........

A. No

Case dismissed.

I wonder if those supporting your cause will help with your loses if it goes to court......i do hope so as it could cost thousands.

Best of luck.

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i was always told by someone within toyota, that the issues with the is200 and 300 geo was because the original settings were set up for the Altezza with 3sge, a much lighter engine, in a lighter car overall, as a result of fitting the heavier engines the geo is under greater stresses and therefore acts in a different way under compression.

ive had 3 brand new IS200's, the very first one, a W reg suffered tyre wear really bad, when i handed the car back into Lexus after 16 months for a swap to the next one, I had to pay for a new tyres.........

at the time it wasnt "known" that there was an issue with the wear, it was only when i had the next car for 6 months and the same problem arose, did it come to light in conversation about the known issue!!, needless to say when i then swapped the second car after 6 months for the white lex, i had the settings checked every 3 months, eventually getting them done at TTE direct......and not to the factory settings

Glad someone else had reason to mention that as a possibility too.

I went through several sets of the Bridgestone tyres pretty quick.

Had several alignment sessions done by the dealer too.

Then swapped to a set of Dunlop tyres and around the same time TTE did alignment for me when they changed my suspension.

Things seem to be fine now so I wasn't sure whether it was switching to Dunlops or TTE's work that sorted things out.

So I reckon it's probably the latter - TTE using their settings rather than the UK offices duff ones.

Rgds

TG

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What I am failing to understand is why there is all the back-biting here.

Ah, so for us to succeed in getting Lexus to recognise and resolve a known issue - someone has to get killed?

I used to work for one of the Ambulance Trusts and have seen enough carnage, thank you all the same, to wish death upon anybody just to prove a point. Can't we stop the situation from happening before it happens?

What are we asking Lexus to do? Reconsider their settings - and, when we (mainly Tony - sorry mate) provides Lexus with settings which we all know work - to provide their Centres/Dealerships with the same universal settings for future customers.

I actually don't give a rat's ***** about money from Lexus - though by God they have cost me enough. This is a safety issue, pure and simple.

Tomorrow I shall phone Lexus (GB) Ltd and ask to speak to Gill Want - and seek an explanation why different centres are providing different garbage for geometries. The only Centre I believe is accurately setting the geometry is Lexus Nottingham - both Reading and Oxford are providing different data - both incorrect, both going to result in excessive wear. One has proved it time and time again.

I hold my hands up and proudly say I am the least technical person on this forum - but I do recognise when something isn't right. I grew up around the motor industry and have never, ever, ever known of problems with tyres so consistently poor as with Lexus. It has sod all to do with my driving style - I have never had this problem with any of the other cars I have driven (and there are many).

As I have said before - it is the sheer arrogance of Lexus which gnarls me - that they know more about tyres than Dunlop-Goodyear. That they, Lexus, have to be right 'cos they are the god-damn manufacturer. It's all b/s.

Lexus would go up in my estimation considerably if they admitted they were wrong - even if they would just consider Tony's settings and see what happens. But no, they remain holier than thou - and they do so at our cost (well, not mine anymore) but at the cost of all the Lexus IS200/300/SC owners who don't subscribe to this forum and who don't know better and who haven't had Tony's input. No, they faithfully return to a Lexus Dealership where they are plied with nice coffee in comfortable surroundings and stiffed probably £30 extra per corner each time tyres are required, and are too naïve to question Mr Service Manager when he/she says - "you need to have a 4-wheel alignment to correct your tyre problem" at a cost of £140. Kerching! Kerching! Kerching!

If it wasn't for the tyre issue and the slightly disappointing mpg the IS200 would be a great car - everything I always wanted. But the truth is the tyre issue lets it down badly for me - really, really badly.

Some have talked of meeting and heading to Epsom - now let's fix a date. Gonna have to be a weekday - how does Thursday 20 March sound? If anyone knows anyone in the local press who want to join us - please let them know. Ditto for the motoring mags et al.

We can refer to it in other threads as "The Surrey Meet"...

Rant over (for tonight).

Chris

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Chris

I have just read this thread from start to finish, I, being a LS430 owner, had no clue as to the tyre wear issue on the IS. Firstly I think it is typical of a major manufacturer to take the stance they have.

I can't see from the above what you are trying to get from them, if it is an admission of error then you will not get very far and I think they will end up bankrupting you before you get anywhere near court.

How about trying the small claims court, set out a case based on "not fit for the purpose" pay your £50 to the court, then buy a book of first class stamps and start writing to everyone at Lexus you can think of, record the letters, the responses and lack of them... Their lawyers will write to you, create at least three questions from every letter and ask them separately in follow up letters....the process from the court will be to try to negotiate a settlement, if this is done correctly you may well get an offer from Lexus to pay your costs, and to rectify the problems to your car.... hey presto admission of error. If they do not and go to court it is highly likely that the court will find in your favor and you will get the same result.

Be very careful of any advice from Lawyers, they don't mind who pays them..... do the above and you could do it all yourself.

Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck, it will not be easy but the rewards will be worth it

Good Luck

Pete

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What I am failing to understand is why there is all the back-biting here.

What back biting?

What I dont understand is the niavety of what you are expecting from them. You and others have mentioned compensation and Lexus have been backed into a corner because of this very thing. It is too late to say it aint a compo thing, they will have already read it. Am I right in thinking this is an issue with old models and not the current IS's?? Why would Lexus even consider the financial implications of this on an old model? By admitting anything on this they are admitting everything. Like I've already said, I think they should admit it, but it is gonna be damned expensive to make them admit it.

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The point about the credit company being equally liable is very true. I had a case with Ford 17 years ago when they utterly refused to admit there was a major problem after a catalogue of problems and were just happy to keep repairing under warranty untilthe 12 month warranty ran out and then i would have to pay for it.

I had finance through Ford Credit and made sure i paid £8 over the magic 1/3rd of agreement value. This means they cannot reposess without your permission or a court order. After months of Ford Credit trying to mediate a settlement they were forced to take me to court as i refused to pay until i got what i originally expected, a car fault free. I dragged the case through court for over 2 years all the while in posession of the car. In the end i settled out of court when the car was 3 years old and they took it back and wrote off the debt. Result. I had only paid 1/3rd, much better than the depreciation you get even now. It cost me absolutely nothing in court fees as i was entitled to legal aid (although i think that is unlikely with today's rules).

the last laugh was when they came to collect and they couldn't get it started and had to call for a tow truck to take it away.

If you feel strongly enough about it, go for it.

Now i'm going to get the IS300's geometry checked.

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Chris

I have just read this thread from start to finish, I, being a LS430 owner, had no clue as to the tyre wear issue on the IS. Firstly I think it is typical of a major manufacturer to take the stance they have.

I can't see from the above what you are trying to get from them, if it is an admission of error then you will not get very far and I think they will end up bankrupting you before you get anywhere near court.

How about trying the small claims court, set out a case based on "not fit for the purpose" pay your £50 to the court, then buy a book of first class stamps and start writing to everyone at Lexus you can think of, record the letters, the responses and lack of them... Their lawyers will write to you, create at least three questions from every letter and ask them separately in follow up letters....the process from the court will be to try to negotiate a settlement, if this is done correctly you may well get an offer from Lexus to pay your costs, and to rectify the problems to your car.... hey presto admission of error. If they do not and go to court it is highly likely that the court will find in your favor and you will get the same result.

Be very careful of any advice from Lawyers, they don't mind who pays them..... do the above and you could do it all yourself.

Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck, it will not be easy but the rewards will be worth it

Good Luck

Pete

thats very good advice.

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Q: Lexus has stated the inner tyre wear is a simple trait of the car and it's the duty of the owners to check their tyres/ pressures in regular intervals, do you agree with this?

A: Absolutely not!!... By design no respected manufacturer would make a car that wears tyres to the wire in as little a 5000 miles..... It's like buying a pair of shoes and wearing out the heel at the end of the road, is that acceptable?

The question you have asked yourself is rather ambiguous. Which of the two questions are you answering "absolutely not" to?

Are you saying that an owner should not be checking their tyres? That I would find a strange opinion.

or are you saying that the it is not a trait of the car?? which of course we are all agreed on.

Trait of the car.

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Apparently Gill Want wasn't at Lexus (GB) today - but I was told that she'd phone me tomorrow.

Any points you'd like me to raise with her?

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had a good read thru the original letter and the response, i agree with otherss that there was alot of points in the letter and some were more relevant than others, the reply was a fairly standard neutral response as I was expecting. As stated they did revise some settings - what are the revised settings??? one other thing I thought a bit strange , I hope the letter was not signed "mr.24601" was it???? Because if i recieved a letter signed with a screen name i wouldnt take it seriously.

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Well I'm of the opinion that what im24601 is doing is a good thing. Whether he went about it the right way i'll let others argue about as I would not have the time (read - stones) to do that myself let alone think about taking them to court in the 1st place. I have been to Tony myself to get the "correct" geo done and i'll turn up in person if we're going to make a physical prescence at Lexus (GB) HQ, but then i'm only down the road :lookaround:

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I got rid of my IS300 last week, but for info here is what I've found over the last couple of years:

May 2004 - got a 51 Reg IS200 SE Auto. Had really bad inner tyre wear. Must have bought 6 tyres in 2 years of ownership (20k miles)

May 2006 - changed to Honda for a bit

Feb 2007 - got a 53 Reg IS200 Sport. Only had it for 3 months, but this also showed inner wear.

May 2007 - got a 04 Reg IS300. Brand new tyres on it when I picked it up from Lexus Cardiff. After 6000 miles both front tyres had bad inner wear.

March 2008 - Got rid of the IS300 as I couldn't face anymore tyre wearing.

No longer a Lexus Owner and probably won't be again - now driving a Toyota Prius!

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I got rid of my IS300 last week, but for info here is what I've found over the last couple of years:

May 2004 - got a 51 Reg IS200 SE Auto. Had really bad inner tyre wear. Must have bought 6 tyres in 2 years of ownership (20k miles)

May 2006 - changed to Honda for a bit

Feb 2007 - got a 53 Reg IS200 Sport. Only had it for 3 months, but this also showed inner wear.

May 2007 - got a 04 Reg IS300. Brand new tyres on it when I picked it up from Lexus Cardiff. After 6000 miles both front tyres had bad inner wear.

March 2008 - Got rid of the IS300 as I couldn't face anymore tyre wearing.

No longer a Lexus Owner and probably won't be again - now driving a Toyota Prius!

That is so sad...... And what's so annoying is the reason for the tyre wear is simple to solve.... If you decide to give Lexus another chance give me a call an i will set the chassis for free....

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If you decide to give Lexus another chance give me a call an i will set the chassis for free....

Now how is that for a nice guy :D

really nice,top guy :)

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Lets go the whole hog and chuck in the '2nd gear 'CLONK' noise' as well! :lol::lol::lol:

:o So this ISN'T just mine?! Is there a thread about this somewhere?

Anyway, back to the subject. I'm fully in support of im24601 on this subject, even though I've only recently bought my IS200 so can't vouch for the tyre wear issue personally. What I would say though is that as a (minor, insignificant) Toyota employee, it's clear that nothing scares them more than the prospect of negative publicity! Rather than lengthy and potentially expensive legal action, I would suggest that the next course of action should be to gather support through these forums as well as Lexus US (assuming they experience the same issues) and then take the issue to every motoring publication possible as well as the various watchdogs available. Just make sure that you state only facts and don't land yourself in a position where THEY are taking legal action against YOU for comments made.

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Lets go the whole hog and chuck in the '2nd gear 'CLONK' noise' as well! :lol::lol::lol:

:o So this ISN'T just mine?! Is there a thread about this somewhere?

Anyway, back to the subject. I'm fully in support of im24601 on this subject, even though I've only recently bought my IS200 so can't vouch for the tyre wear issue personally. What I would say though is that as a (minor, insignificant) Toyota employee, it's clear that nothing scares them more than the prospect of negative publicity! Rather than lengthy and potentially expensive legal action, I would suggest that the next course of action should be to gather support through these forums as well as Lexus US (assuming they experience the same issues) and then take the issue to every motoring publication possible as well as the various watchdogs available. Just make sure that you state only facts and don't land yourself in a position where THEY are taking legal action against YOU for comments made.

I think thats a good point mate...i believe we should make a point of sorting a day out thats good for all that want to meet up and then all go there together?

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On my 3 1st.generation IS cars tyre wear was never an issue & plus 40k. was achieved twice on a set of tyres given I was 99% motorway driving.

As Tony has a proven track record for all Lexus tyre issues I am puzzled why you have not sought his expertise & then asked your Dealer who has tried numerous times to recompense you in some way?

Tel

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