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Geoffers

Is200 Auto Mirror Closure

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What a wonderful thread this has turned into!

Geoffers.....I've said it before and I'll say it again - very well done to you. You put in alot of work, and time, and the result seems to be perfect. Though I've not installed it myself yet (will be this weekend) I've spoken with others who have and they're well chuffed.

Chip.....bare in mind we're talking about a Lexus here. In my case, for example - I have a factory fit alarm and drive the car everyday. It's a VERY useful mod that Geoffers has created. HOWEVER.....the cars which I guess you're leaning more towards (the more extreme/modified ones) will of course need bigger and better alarms - with pagers, trackers, anti-hijack etc (I used to have all this on my old car....an Escort Cosworth). My point is that I think it should be put into persepctive a little. For the modified cars you need £500+ alarm systems. For mine (and others similar to me) it's a subtle .....and cheap.... mod which adds to the usefulness of the car.

Thanks

Tony

I think Chip is talking more about the fact that you are modifying your car in a way that interfaces with the existing alarm system and could be perceived to alter the system. An insurance company will use any excuse it can find to get out of paying for a claim and this could be one way they get out of it since you are effectively tampering with the alarm system - they could also claim that it caused a malfunction or anything. Even though the added circuit cannot cause any problems the insurance company could probably decide that it does and make up its own mind.

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Either way, it's up to the individual to have this mod or not. Most people know it can/may effect their insurance claim/warranty. Obviously you take that into your own risk. What Geoffer's done is great (actaully brilliant :yahoo: ) and if people want to pay £'ss to have it done then let them. I'll take Geoffer's invention any day :lol: B)

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Either way, it's up to the individual to have this mod or not. Most people know it can/may effect their insurance claim/warranty. Obviously you take that into your own risk. What Geoffer's done is great (actaully brilliant :yahoo: ) and if people want to pay £'ss to have it done then let them. I'll take Geoffer's invention any day :lol: B)

Actually I didn't think about the potential insurance problems with this, doesn't worry me too much though - I've purchased all the components in Geoffer's diagrams and will be building it anyway. If the car gets stolen it probably won't ever come back so the insurance company will never know.

Unless they read this post...

:iraqi-info-minister:

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Actually I didn't think about the potential insurance problems with this, doesn't worry me too much though - I've purchased all the components in Geoffer's diagrams and will be building it anyway. If the car gets stolen it probably won't ever come back so the insurance company will never know.

Unless they read this post...

:iraqi-info-minister:

haha,

how much are willing me to pay me to shut up??? :arrrggg-matey: :ph34r::lol:

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Geoffers,

My mate who is a electronics engineer has offered to knock out one of your circuits for me for £20. Does this sound okay?

He has asked if I want the bare wires to connect it. Do I? (bear with me - i really have no clue about this (also have 'tried' to read your instructions which I'm sure are fine for people with more than -20 IQ, but struggled bigtime!))

Cheers.

Jon

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Actually he also asked:

I could probably knock one of these up for about £20. I guess it really needs to be in it's own box, could probably make it fairly small but will need to know the maximum size just in case.

Any thoughts?

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Actually he also asked:

I could probably knock one of these up for about £20.  I guess it really needs to be in it's own box, could probably make it fairly small but will need to know the maximum size just in case.

Any thoughts?

£20 sounds about right. He isn't making any money on you at all there - that's roughly how much they cost me to make.

The box size I use is 85mm x 55mm x 30mm which is plenty. (about £1.30 from Maplin or CPC)

You can bring them out on bare wires and just connect up, but I would use at least a 5amp connector block so you can easily disconnect it if you want to.

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All i know is if it was a thatcham approved alarm and you did that to it (even with diodes etc so any sensible person knows for a fact it cant effect the alarm itself) it would STILL invalidate the approval.

Chip

Not necessarily so. Electronically, it doesn't automatically invalidate the Thatcham rating. As for your insurance company, well that could be a different story.

It may say in your contract that any additions to the alarm require thatcham approved equipment. There is a lot of equipment out there that connects to the accessory wire that ISN'T Thatcham approved, but most insurance companies don't even look at. (Proximity detectors are the biggest offenders of this)

If this isn't in your contract but they still try to get out of it, they would have to prove that the alarm hadn't triggered. Without being at the scene, they wouldn't know. Then they would have to decide if the additional electronics caused the malfunction.

The biggest thing though is the insurance company probably wouldn't even know it was fitted. (I'm not condoning anyone trying to pull the wool over the eyes of an insurance company here). Unless the assesor has any electronics knowledge, the unit wouldn't be detected. It would be difficult to even measure the current drain as it is edge triggered (using a 100nf capacitor). After the capacitor has charged, it isn't technically connected to the alarm. (Less than 100 milliseconds). This would be lost in the startup of the microwave sensors.

As it effects no other part of the alarm system in any way. (See my point on worst case scenario). Then the thieves would have got the car either way as they must have used other equipment to bypass the rest of the security device/transponder, etc. which the insurance companies take a much greater interest in.

Ultimately, it's the owners choice based on the benefits.

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I spoke to a thatcham approved alarm installer and they said that ANY modifications/additions to a thatcham alarm invaliadate the warranty unless the additions/mods are themselves thatcham approved and installed by a thatcham approved installer.

Have you thought about running this total closure totally seperate to the alarm, you can buy a key fob transmitter from maplins, which would give you an extra couple of buttons to play with, so you could do something like put the headlights on another button as well.

I live in the country and am often round at friends farms etc and i find it useful to be able to press a button on my remote on my honda and turn the headlights on so i can see where im walking.

Obviously would put the cost up a touch, but could be a good solution for those people who are nervous about the alarm situation??

Im not trying to p1ss on anyones fireworks, was just trying to make people aware of the *possible* impliciations cause i know how hard insurance companies will try and get out of a claim.

Chip

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We'll have to agree to differ on this one. I'm in the game and have been for many years. Reading a signal from an alarm is completely different from having the alarm control an add-on. The circuit reads the condition of the alarm and acts appropriately.

I can't disagree about bringing potential implications to peoples attention as this is always wise.

If people are interested in carrying a seperate remote keyfob for it, then post it here - I can easily set it for that instead of the alarm trigger.

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Seems to me that geoff has put alot of hard work into getting this system running correctly... If you feel that there is a problem with warranties etc...DON'T FIT IT !!!

I have been a Thatcham approved installer for 18 years, and also an insurance assessor for all the major insurance companies in the UK, for over 10 years. To my knowledge, this upgrade has no effects on warranties or insurance claims.

As some of you know, I have this system (with total closure) on my car...proof or what...

(my mirrors and windows trigger not from the alarm, but from a totally seperate microswitch in the drivers door. This system isn't connected in any way to the alarm.)

That isn't to say that Geoff has done his wrong, we both had our own ideas on how to do it, and set about it in different ways...

WELL DONE GEOFF.. :D (Don't give him a hard time, he's worked hard for you guy's)

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Duncan ....

Couldn't agree more !

Well done Geoffers, and Duncan :cat:

(i dont know why the cat smilie......i was looking for a thumbs up but there isn't one, so the cat will have to do !)

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Hear Hear!

Big up Geoffers!

Bloofire

Seconded, Bloofire

I was going to ask the advice of a friend who is a consultant with what sounds like the same brief as Duncan, to look over this stuff just to shut the Doubting Thomas (Chip 1380) up, but it looks as though I don't need to now.

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Actually he also asked:

I could probably knock one of these up for about £20.  I guess it really needs to be in it's own box, could probably make it fairly small but will need to know the maximum size just in case.

Any thoughts?

You doing it then, Bloo?? Wouldn't trust myself getting the old Maplins catalogue and doing it myself, though I could probably fit a pre-assembled box. oR how about you, Geoffers? I think you deserve to make a few quid from each box sold, after all you've done. It's just the mod I would want........

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So then getting back to this Topic..

Is anyone gona offer a pre-assembled box of tricks for the mirror and windows closure so us mortals to fit to our own motors :whistling: :D

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Hi Guys,

I've been following this thread on and off for a while and decided to give it a go.

I went to maplins with the part list and I think I have most of the components. They did not stock the relay so that's on order. In total without the relay it came to £11. Sound a bit cheap to me but I ain't complaining.

The guy at maplins wasn't too about the exact spec on some of the components so I got the nearest I could.

Some questions: (probably very stupid ones too!)

Is stripboard the same as veroboard?

Just in case I totally mess this up, any chance of a part code list from Maplins or any othe online component retailer. I was hoping there was going to be a kit of some sort as I am useless with electronics.

Thanks guys.

Amit. (atailor)

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Hi Guys,

I've been following this thread on and off for a while and decided to give it a go.

I went to maplins with the part list and I think I have most of the components. They did not stock the relay so that's on order. In total without the relay it came to £11. Sound a bit cheap to me but I ain't complaining.

The guy at maplins wasn't too about the exact spec on some of the components so I got the nearest I could.

Some questions: (probably very stupid ones too!)

Is stripboard the same as veroboard?

Just in case I totally mess this up, any chance of a part code list from Maplins or any othe online component retailer. I was hoping there was going to be a kit of some sort as I am useless with electronics.

Thanks guys.

Amit. (atailor)

Hi Amit,

Maybe Goeffers can answer this one for you!!!

He designed the unit in question B)

Quite a few members have done this mod on their cars now, so I'm sure you'll get some response.

You could have also bought the ready made one from your local car security shop (It's only a timer relay)

Good luck :whistling:

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Yep - stripboard is the same as veroboard, just depends on the manufacturer.

Got a good deal at £11 - did you get the box, fuse holder wire (16/02 min), etc? the relay should cost £3.00 tops.

I don't think you'll mess up. The timer doesn't have to be exact in it's components really so there is room for tolerance between these.

I didn't do a parts list for online ordering so if yours works ok you can post up your Maplin receipt with the parts on :lol:

The only thing I would recommend is a test before you put it in the car. Do you have a 12v power supply and a meter?

Good luck and PM me if you have any problems.

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Got a good deal at £11 - did you get the box, fuse holder wire (16/02 min), etc? the relay should cost £3.00 tops.

I didn't do a parts list for online ordering so if yours works ok you can post up your Maplin receipt with the parts on :lol:

The only thing I would recommend is a test before you put it in the car. Do you have a 12v power supply and a meter?

Yep everything for a little over 11 quid apart from the relay. They said the relay could take upto a week to come in. :-(

If it works I'll post the part code list.

Don't have a tester. :-( Although I could get hold of one. But I wouldn't know what to do with it anyway. :iraqi-info-minister:

Thanks guys,

Amit.

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Hi People,

New to the site, I've had a Lexus IS200 Sport for about 18 months now, top car. I've installed a custom sound system, with V12 amps, and even managed to integrate it with the nightmare built in NAV system. Any help on these I'll be happy to do, just ask.

On to the subject, been reading this post for the past few days and I have decided to give the mirror closure a go. Been to maplin, bought all the bits, but I have a few questions, hopefully someone can help me out (geoffers!!!).

Firstly, they didn;t know what a DPCO relay was, so I jsut got a DP (somthing else) relay, has the same layout:

___ ___

----\ /---

----| |---

-- -{}----

Don;t know if anyone can understand that, but basically something along those lines is what is drawn on it. Is this relay going to work, or do I really need to get a DPCO one?

Secondly, the adjustable timer part, I could only get a 220 one, not a 200, is this going to be a problem? It also has three connections on it and only two are shown in geoffers diagram, which one do I plug it into?

Thanks very much in advance for you help!

Spenny :iraqi-info-minister:

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duncan, i was reading about what you said about the full closure being totally separate on your car, and was wondering, is it still operated by the same remote though?

also, if its completely separate, then no one can complain? (lexus warranty people, or insurance companies)

finally, is that expensive to do, and can it be done at any alarm installers, or does it need to be by someone technically minded like you and all the other clever people on here?

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duncan, i was reading about what you said about the full closure being totally separate on your car, and was wondering, is it still operated by the same remote though?

also, if its completely separate, then no one can complain? (lexus warranty people, or insurance companies)

finally, is that expensive to do, and can it be done at any alarm installers, or does it need to be by someone technically minded like you and all the other clever people on here?

It's very simple,

All I've done is fit a micro switch inside the drivers door which is tripped one way when the doors are locked, and then the other way when the doors are unlocked. This way the mirrors will close and re-open off the transmitter.

It works from the standard key that comes with the car.

A micro switch will set you back a massive £1.30 at Maplins.

Like you say, it isn't electrically connected to the locking in any way, but there is a bit more work involved fitting it.

If your gonna do it yourself, and your not very electrically minded, I would stick to the way Geoffers has done his.

He designed his version specifically sothat it was easy for you guys to make and fit.

Good luck....

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Hi People,

Firstly, they didn;t know what a DPCO relay was, so I jsut got a DP (somthing else) relay, has the same layout:

___  ___

----\  /---

----|  |---

-- -{}----

Don;t know if anyone can understand that, but basically something along those lines is what is drawn on it. Is this relay going to work, or do I really need to get a DPCO one?

Secondly, the adjustable timer part, I could only get a 220 one, not a 200, is this going to be a problem? It also has three connections on it and only two are shown in geoffers diagram, which one do I plug it into?

Spenny :iraqi-info-minister:

Welcome to the club Spenny.

The person you spoke to is right - you use the 3 pins to decide which way will increase/decrease the resistance (time control in this case). The resistance across the two outer pins stays the same so you use only one of the outer pins and the inner pin. Looking at it front on, the left pin and inner pin will increase the resistance as you turn it to the right. The inner pin and right pin will decrease the resistance as you turn it to the right. Basically, just use the first two pins so turning it to the right will increase the resistance (which controls the time.)

220 rather than 200 is fine. Yuo will get another .5 sec time if it's turned fully up that's all. (You will have it about half way but may need to experiment)

I think I'll re-draw the third pin open as I've had quite a few PM's over this one.

As for the relay, it was hard to determine which type you have, but this is very important. DPCO stands for double pole change over.

There are 8 pins. Two go to the coil to make the relay activate with power. The rest are for the contacts - 2 are in the middle and switch between the outer ones.

If you look at the diagram below, you can see that the middle contacts changover from one set to another when the relay has power.

relay.jpg

It is very important that it is DPCO as it changes the polarity of the feed to the mirrors. If only one side changes then it will cause a short.

What is the part number and I'll have a look on the Maplin site - it probably will be changeover.

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