Are They Really That Bad

[mattstheone]

Hello all i am thinking of changing My 2000 plated IS200 Sport for

a IS220d about 1-2 year old, but after looking at the Forum in the IS220D and 250 section

the bad vibes on here ref the diesel, I am thinking crikey are they really that Bad.

Gear ratio problems

MPG

Injector problems

Have Lexus really got it that wrong with a diesel version??

Is there anyone that thinks it is worth me getting

I am up and down the M42/M6 south everyday for work with a round trip of

46 mile per day

Advice needed please as it is a big commitment for me to make.

My experiance of Lexus so far has been real wow factor My IS200 has served me well with Little maintenance

cost with 146k on clock, but high Fuel usage.

Matt

Mattstheone

[Parthiban]

I've never driven a 220d, but based on the stuff on here don't think I'd touch one - if you can live with the consumption of the 200, you'll be more than happy with the IS250..........everytime I've had one when my 200s been in the garage, I always get around 28mpg and that's mainly around town, on the motorway you'll surely get even more :)

[Matus]

yeah, go for 250

SOmething is really wrong with the diesel engines in GB

[06G220D]

What are you looking for?

I have a 220d and am very happy with it. So happy that I drive it! I have almost 70k km up now.

There are some who use this forum to communicate with Lexus GB. There posts are quite negative!

I would not put too much faith in those. They were not intended for you, rather Lexus GB.

I am getting 38 -39 mpg and that includes about 50% urban. I have had one or two issues that have been excellently dealt with

by the dealers.

I think the answer to your question depends on what your success criteria are.

It's a comfortable, quiet diesel with good performance but not best in class economy.

There were problems with rattles in early cars. My understanding is that these have been largely resolved.

It has not been an issue for me. But, I am a happy owner. Maybe I dont count.

[Tango]

Have Lexus really got it that wrong with a diesel version??

Is there anyone that thinks it is worth me getting

Advice needed please as it is a big commitment for me to make.

Easiest way to find out is to test drive the IS250 Auto and then the 220D, then make up your own mind. I've driven both and know which one I prefer by a long way... :winky:

[andy07841]

Hello all i am thinking of changing My 2000 plated IS200 Sport for

a IS220d about 1-2 year old, but after looking at the Forum in the IS220D and 250 section

the bad vibes on here ref the diesel, I am thinking crikey are they really that Bad.

Gear ratio problems

MPG

Injector problems

Have Lexus really got it that wrong with a diesel version??

Is there anyone that thinks it is worth me getting

I am up and down the M42/M6 south everyday for work with a round trip of

46 mile per day

Advice needed please as it is a big commitment for me to make.

My experiance of Lexus so far has been real wow factor My IS200 has served me well with Little maintenance

cost with 146k on clock, but high Fuel usage.

Matt

Mattstheone

hi i have an is 200d se-l and i am very happy with mine i am getting 41.2 tank avg at the moment and i never use it on the motorway.i have never had any issue,s with it and think it,s one of the best cars i have owned. this is my first diesel and i am more than happy

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

What are you looking for?

I have a 220d and am very happy with it. So happy that I drive it! I have almost 70k km up now.

There are some who use this forum to communicate with Lexus GB. There posts are quite negative!

I would not put too much faith in those. They were not intended for you, rather Lexus GB.

I am getting 38 -39 mpg and that includes about 50% urban. I have had one or two issues that have been excellently dealt with

by the dealers.

I think the answer to your question depends on what your success criteria are.

It's a comfortable, quiet diesel with good performance but not best in class economy.

There were problems with rattles in early cars. My understanding is that these have been largely resolved.

It has not been an issue for me. But, I am a happy owner. Maybe I dont count.

Drive it for at least a day, compare it to an Auto 250, then decide yourself. In real world (>50-60mph - i.e. not Ireland limits) motorway runs, 37-43 is possible. With a new 5th Injector, even 47-49 iss possible, but it dwindles on some cars as the miles come on...mine at best gives 39-40 mpg with 90% motorway runs. That is abismal. It goes in on Monday - for a service!!

That will be much better than a IS200, but no where near what a diesel should be.

I can tell you with you with 100% faith that I wouldn't have another 220d! Maybe a 250 Auto - yes, but 220d - no!

Check out my poll - that doesn't lie. 17 of 38 voters have had fuel economy issues...

[mattstheone]

Thanks everyone for the advice

but i think the best is to get one and see if they will let me keep one overnight

to give it a good try

I have had a 250 for a weekend (my IS was in for disc and hub work but part could not be delivered untill monday Good news for me i had the car for weekend) when they were first launched in Nov 05

very nice to drive but i did not really try it if you know what i mean, full consumption and it was a manual not Auto

Matt

[nate73]

Hello all i am thinking of changing My 2000 plated IS200 Sport for

a IS220d about 1-2 year old, but after looking at the Forum in the IS220D and 250 section

the bad vibes on here ref the diesel, I am thinking crikey are they really that Bad.

Gear ratio problems

MPG

Injector problems

Have Lexus really got it that wrong with a diesel version??

Is there anyone that thinks it is worth me getting

I am up and down the M42/M6 south everyday for work with a round trip of

46 mile per day

Advice needed please as it is a big commitment for me to make.

My experiance of Lexus so far has been real wow factor My IS200 has served me well with Little maintenance

cost with 146k on clock, but high Fuel usage.

Matt

Mattstheone

I do an 84 mile round trip each day in my 220d, 80% motorway and average 35-36mpg. I cant use 6th as anything less than 90 will have you dropping to 5th every five minutes when you dab the brakes! However, there doesn't seem to be many guys with the 220d sport on here complaining, so maybe the different gearbox improves things?

TBH with the mileage you're quoting a petrol would make better sense.

Then again don't listen to me I'm just on here to moan at Lexus GB!

[FinLex]

I'm very happy with mine, but that's just me. No problems, no complaints. Got a recall on 5th injector a couple of days ago, but haven't had problems with it either. I can't say why, but my experience on the 220d is way, way different than the general view on this forum seems to be.

[dgman]

Hello all i am thinking of changing My 2000 plated IS200 Sport for

a IS220d about 1-2 year old, but after looking at the Forum in the IS220D and 250 section

the bad vibes on here ref the diesel, I am thinking crikey are they really that Bad.

Gear ratio problems

MPG

Injector problems

Have Lexus really got it that wrong with a diesel version??

Is there anyone that thinks it is worth me getting

I am up and down the M42/M6 south everyday for work with a round trip of

46 mile per day

Advice needed please as it is a big commitment for me to make.

My experiance of Lexus so far has been real wow factor My IS200 has served me well with Little maintenance

cost with 146k on clock, but high Fuel usage.

Matt

Mattstheone

i also get 40mpg combined cycle.my previous car was a golf gti 150 diesel 43mpg combined cycle.on the motorway 70mph in 6th 54mpg.

[GWilso]

My 2p's worth don't buy either

Lexus Persuit Of Perfection although seems they havn't actually found perfection yet (only with 220d/250)

My view (and only my view) lexus really let themselves down with the new IS :shutit:

[06G220D]

With a new 5th Injector, even 47-49 iss possible, but it dwindles on some cars as the miles come on...mine at best gives 39-40 mpg with 90% motorway runs.

I may be wrong, but you have only got about 20K up. Is that sufficient to justify this comment. I have over 40k in a shorter period and I have not noticed this deterioration. As for 39-40 mpg, I think that is acceptable. If I wanted absolute frugality I would have gone for something else. My actual economy is what my pre-purchase research had LED me to expect.

That will be much better than a IS200, but no where near what a diesel should be.

Where is it written in stone just "what a diesel should be." Who says?

Check out my poll - that doesn't lie. 17 of 38 voters have had fuel economy issues...

Your Poll is biased. For a poll to be credible the respondents should be randomly chosen.

It has already been pointed out in other threads here, that on a forum like this you are much more likely to get dissatisfied customers. So your poll is inherently biased from the start. Secondly, you actually encouraged dissatisfied members to vote. On March 7, you posted "Can you guys all please make sure you add your vote HERE if you haven't already?".

I have never seen you actively encourage satisfied owners to post.

Remember, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

Independent websites like www.honestjohn.co.uk don't mention problems with fuel economy and that would reflect a much larger sample size and, in my opinion, be a much better reflection of the true picture.

I am sorry you appear to have got a bad car but I cannot let you extrapolate from that that all 200ds must be bad.

You have already posted that your experience is all that counts. Well, its not. To make generalisations about a model you need a much larger sample size

[dgman]

i have noticed on a recent reveiw in auto express that the new a4 2.0tdi managed 39mpg with 34hp less than the is.

[new boy]

Hello all i am thinking of changing My 2000 plated IS200 Sport for

a IS220d about 1-2 year old, but after looking at the Forum in the IS220D and 250 section

the bad vibes on here ref the diesel, I am thinking crikey are they really that Bad.

Gear ratio problems

MPG

Injector problems

Have Lexus really got it that wrong with a diesel version??

Is there anyone that thinks it is worth me getting

I am up and down the M42/M6 south everyday for work with a round trip of

46 mile per day

Advice needed please as it is a big commitment for me to make.

My experiance of Lexus so far has been real wow factor My IS200 has served me well with Little maintenance

cost with 146k on clock, but high Fuel usage.

Matt

Mattstheone

I have a 220d is SE and I am very happy with it, had it from new only done 4k miles. Just returned from a weekend in the Lake District, because of the bad weather spent one day out in the car driving over 2 passes and on many slow winding roads in low gears. In total we covered about 400 miles at an average of 42 MPG. On the way home a lot of the time I was in 6th gear at 75 ish MPH. All in all I do not consider this bad at all, having said that this is my first diesel and I will always contend that a good petrol engine will never be out done. Just for the record I travel a little over 12 miles to work on A and B raods and average 40 + MPG. Merv

[passman53]

Are you looking at a diesel just for the potential economy? If so on your commuting miles you may be looking at a saving of around £10 per week.

However, I've just been looking at used car prices and most dealers are asking around £2-£3,000 more for a diesel over the same year petrol car. Surely this means you will not be saving anything till you've had the car for 4+years at least.

I believe a diesel is only of economic benefit to a high mileage user, i.e. 20K plus a year.

If thats the case then why buy a diesel and risk being less than satisfied?

[nate73]

With a new 5th Injector, even 47-49 iss possible, but it dwindles on some cars as the miles come on...mine at best gives 39-40 mpg with 90% motorway runs.

I may be wrong, but you have only got about 20K up. Is that sufficient to justify this comment. I have over 40k in a shorter period and I have not noticed this deterioration. As for 39-40 mpg, I think that is acceptable. If I wanted absolute frugality I would have gone for something else. My actual economy is what my pre-purchase research had LED me to expect.

That will be much better than a IS200, but no where near what a diesel should be.

Where is it written in stone just "what a diesel should be." Who says?

Check out my poll - that doesn't lie. 17 of 38 voters have had fuel economy issues...

Your Poll is biased. For a poll to be credible the respondents should be randomly chosen.

It has already been pointed out in other threads here, that on a forum like this you are much more likely to get dissatisfied customers. So your poll is inherently biased from the start. Secondly, you actually encouraged dissatisfied members to vote. On March 7, you posted "Can you guys all please make sure you add your vote HERE if you haven't already?".

I have never seen you actively encourage satisfied owners to post.

Remember, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

Independent websites like www.honestjohn.co.uk don't mention problems with fuel economy and that would reflect a much larger sample size and, in my opinion, be a much better reflection of the true picture.

I am sorry you appear to have got a bad car but I cannot let you extrapolate from that that all 200ds must be bad.

You have already posted that your experience is all that counts. Well, its not. To make generalisations about a model you need a much larger sample size

Not sure where you get off dismissing complaints out of hand, each of the 17 complaints are valid.

You ask "what a diesel should be" it should back up any claims of being frugal and negate the up/down actions of the gearbox because of its "Class leading torque". These are the claims of Lexus and the reason why many have opted for the 220d. I've completed 230,0000 miles over the past 5 years in various cars from a 306td, A4TDI and an S60 D5. None have come anywhere close to the IS as a package, however all were easier to drive because the engine/gearbox combination was better. They all also gave better mpg!

People aren't bashing the car - just the engine/gearbox and rightly so.

[FinLex]

Not sure where you get off dismissing complaints out of hand, each of the 17 complaints are valid.

You ask "what a diesel should be" it should back up any claims of being frugal and negate the up/down actions of the gearbox because of its "Class leading torque". These are the claims of Lexus and the reason why many have opted for the 220d. I've completed 230,0000 miles over the past 5 years in various cars from a 306td, A4TDI and an S60 D5. None have come anywhere close to the IS as a package, however all were easier to drive because the engine/gearbox combination was better. They all also gave better mpg!

People aren't bashing the car - just the engine/gearbox and rightly so.

That's 17 complaints. How many potentially happy 220d owners that leaves? Thousands, I believe.

I must again remind: the official MPG figures are not Lexus' claims, but official test results. If your not matching them, it's because you're not driving in a similar way. I'm not saying you should, but if you don't, you can't really compare your mileage to the official numbers.

None of the cars you mentioned weight as much as 220d. I would guess none of them have a particulate filter, either. I'm sure none of them have the DeNOx technology that the 220d has. These things are easily forgotten, because they're not as obvious as the mileage, but still they are there.

Some people are bashing the engine-gearbox combo, some are not. Are you saying that the happy ones are wrong or lying? I know the 220d isn't the most fuel efficient car in its class, but combined with the weight, low emissions and torque, I'm pleased with the 47,1 MPG that I've received since new. Don't overgeneralise, please!

[Martin1978]

Have Lexus really got it that wrong with a diesel version??

Is there anyone that thinks it is worth me getting

Advice needed please as it is a big commitment for me to make.

Easiest way to find out is to test drive the IS250 Auto and then the 220D, then make up your own mind. I've driven both and know which one I prefer by a long way... :winky:

that's the best way to do it :) I had 220D 30min test drive and then just straigth away changed to 250...

decision was easy to make... no regrets so far

[philthy]

What are you looking for?

I have a 220d and am very happy with it. So happy that I drive it! I have almost 70k km up now.

There are some who use this forum to communicate with Lexus GB. There posts are quite negative!

I would not put too much faith in those. They were not intended for you, rather Lexus GB.

I am getting 38 -39 mpg and that includes about 50% urban. I have had one or two issues that have been excellently dealt with

by the dealers.

I think the answer to your question depends on what your success criteria are.

It's a comfortable, quiet diesel with good performance but not best in class economy.

There were problems with rattles in early cars. My understanding is that these have been largely resolved.

It has not been an issue for me. But, I am a happy owner. Maybe I dont count.

SO because someone posts a negative opinion of the IS220D no one should take any notice of them? What utter rubbish. I'm paid to drive a car very fast as part of my job so I know a thing or two about how to drive. The IS220D is a very nice looking car that fails in all it attempts to be. It is not fast in comparrison to its competition. It has the worst fuel economy of the class I'm getting 33mpg around town driving like Miss Daisey. The gearing is crap. The ride harsh and the engine noisy. Couple that with poor dealership standards common in a lot of places judging by the review section and the IS220 doesn't seem very appealing. I'd recommend test driving one for a day before you commit to buying one. If you have to have a deisel I'd recommend looking elsewhere. If you really want an IS go for the IS250.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

As Eunos800 said a while back - it's an owners club, not a fan club!

Also - I have already dealt with LGB, who have been great, and I am not so fickle as to use these forums to communicate with them.

Please don't discount the poll - it's an insult to all those that voted - positive or negative. 14 people with no issues proves that almost half of the forum members have no issues which is higher than I thought it would be, so the argument that peeple only look at forums when they have a problem is a wasteful one.

And finally - the guys who have posted are correct - it's only the engine and gearing combo that leaves a lot to be desired - else I would have chicked it in buy now! The weight is also not an issue - a BMW535d (3.0l twin Turbo) can beat this car on an equal run!

[06G220D]

So because someone posts a negative opinion of the IS220D no one should take any notice of them?

Turn that around. So because someone posts a POSITIVE opinion ... no one should take any notice ot them.

You're can't pick and choose like that. You make decisions based on full facts not just the bit that suits your argument.

What utter rubbish. I'm paid to drive a car very fast as part of my job so I know a thing or two about how to drive.

If you're that good how come you didn't pick up the crap gearing, harsh and noisy engine on the test drive.

At the end of the day, I would like to see balanced feedback on the car. Not this consistent moaning that ignores all the good things.

[06G220D]

As Eunos800 said a while back - it's an owners club, not a fan club!

Right now, it seems far more of a bashers club. Positive feedback seems to be rubbished.

Also - I have already dealt with LGB, who have been great, and I am not so fickle as to use these forums to communicate with them.

Jamboo I can recall posts where you acknowledged that the posts were intended for other beyond this forum.

Also in the last week you admitted posting about dealer staff and then removing the posts after you spoke with the principal.

You Posted "I een named and shamed individuals on here... I had that thread taken off after speaking to the dealer Principal, and haven't had a single issue since. Everyone there knows me now, and I might have caused some trouble, but it worked (largely). It's NOT the way I like to do things, but I was really angry."

Give me a break!

Please don't discount the poll - it's an insult to all those that voted - positive or negative. 14 people with no issues proves that almost half of the forum members have no issues which is higher than I thought it would be, so the argument that peeple only look at forums when they have a problem is a wasteful one.

No it doesn't. It proves that half of those who voted have no issues not that half all the forum members have no issues.

And finally - the guys who have posted are correct - it's only the engine and gearing combo that leaves a lot to be desired - else I would have chicked it in buy now!

Are you another one of these superior drivers who either didn't have a test drive or else missed these blatant issues.

[FinLex]

As Eunos800 said a while back - it's an owners club, not a fan club!

Also - I have already dealt with LGB, who have been great, and I am not so fickle as to use these forums to communicate with them.

Please don't discount the poll - it's an insult to all those that voted - positive or negative. 14 people with no issues proves that almost half of the forum members have no issues which is higher than I thought it would be, so the argument that peeple only look at forums when they have a problem is a wasteful one.

And finally - the guys who have posted are correct - it's only the engine and gearing combo that leaves a lot to be desired - else I would have chicked it in buy now! The weight is also not an issue - a BMW535d (3.0l twin Turbo) can beat this car on an equal run!

Jamboo, I think your poll is just fine, but surely you can't think it's 100 percent representative? It's selective on many levels.

BMW 535d weighs about 75 kgs more than 220d. BMW 320d weighs about 150 kgs less than 220d. 220d is HEAVY, and it makes a world of difference especially in urban driving.

[Gra56]

What are you looking for?

I have a 220d and am very happy with it. So happy that I drive it! I have almost 70k km up now.

There are some who use this forum to communicate with Lexus GB. There posts are quite negative!

I would not put too much faith in those. They were not intended for you, rather Lexus GB.

I am getting 38 -39 mpg and that includes about 50% urban. I have had one or two issues that have been excellently dealt with

by the dealers.

I think the answer to your question depends on what your success criteria are.

It's a comfortable, quiet diesel with good performance but not best in class economy.

There were problems with rattles in early cars. My understanding is that these have been largely resolved.

It has not been an issue for me. But, I am a happy owner. Maybe I dont count.

SO because someone posts a negative opinion of the IS220D no one should take any notice of them? What utter rubbish. I'm paid to drive a car very fast as part of my job so I know a thing or two about how to drive. The IS220D is a very nice looking car that fails in all it attempts to be. It is not fast in comparrison to its competition. It has the worst fuel economy of the class I'm getting 33mpg around town driving like Miss Daisey. The gearing is crap. The ride harsh and the engine noisy. Couple that with poor dealership standards common in a lot of places judging by the review section and the IS220 doesn't seem very appealing. I'd recommend test driving one for a day before you commit to buying one. If you have to have a deisel I'd recommend looking elsewhere. If you really want an IS go for the IS250.

Just for info, where do you work? I would love to know what irresponsible company pays its employees to drive a car very fast as part of your job.