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if you really think that the car is crap why not just take the hit.buy an a4 170 .or perhaps a bmw like the e46 with its appetite for turbos and ingesting inlet manifold parts not to mention subframes working free.you really need to keep things in perspective.

Actually no. YOU need to accept that some owners don't find the IS220d to be the dogs danglies and are quite willing to air their views of it and quite rightly so. No one is saying it is rubbish, at least I haven't interpreted any posts on here saying so. Those of us who aren't happy are saying it's not as good as some of the opposition and that you don't always discover this until ownership. Now believe me, if I could have stomached dealing with the BMW dealership and got the price down to an acceptable level I still wouldn't have bought one because they are bland on the inside and subjet to a premium for that badge. In 12 months I may be in a position to go for a new model S80D5. It may not be any more outstanding than the IS on fuel, but I will at least have the cabin and boot space and split fold seats. That makes it a little easier when I'm hauling all my kit to the track.

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I know this point has been made before but I think it's worth repeating.

If you want to compare cars from an economical point of view you need to look at the full cost of ownership.

To do this you look at

upfront purchase cost

less

value on disposal (you will probably have to estimate this)

plus operating costs i.e. fuel, maintenance, tyres, roadtax and insurance etc

Looking at fuel in isolation gives a misleading picture as it ignores differences in the other areas which, as we know, are significant.

And on that point, I see the Times is reporting a surge in deisel sales following the budget. That can only help used deisel car residuals.

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This thread has now gone full circle...some posts are repeating the same thing over and over...indeed the same posters are involved.

Fair enough but some points lose value when thrashed to death.

Comments like...people doing 47 mpg "or so they say" and "driving like geriatrics" devalue your opinion because you devalue the other owners comments on both trust and driving style.

If this forum has value it's based on constructive comment...this of course includes criticism of the vehicle and of course praise of the vehicle. I value very highly the well researched comment on this forum that's why I am a member. However this thread in particular has brought out the worst in people by way of making claims instead of perhaps stating facts that hold up!..."I am a fast driver"...whereas I have stated several times that I drive within speed limits. Now we know what speed limits are but what does "fast driver" mean??? Well I can tell you ...poor mpg.

Therefore to claim fast driving and also claim poor mpg is compatable... BUT not an argument to complain about it as if poor economy was a fault of the car. Judge the competition when the playing field is level...Euro IV etc.

I had to smile when I read one comment ..."I think the problem is between the seat and the steering wheel"

For the most part I can aggree with both the complaints that are well stated and the praise that can be backed up by figures...stats..and personal records. However I could throw away 6 pages of diatribe and people slagging each other and each others opinions out of the what is now 8 pages.

Come on lads and lasses we can do do better than this and yes for some of you Lexus can do better...hopefully they will.

I'd love to know how many Lexus IS220D were sold in Europe.

Some posters think because 20 complain thats a majority?? ...Others slagged a poll because they felt it was unfair to ask a forum where there is a lot of descent to give an objective opinion...Perhaps the outcome was top-heavy amongst those who polled...but at least there could be an argument proposed that it was an attempt to gather facts. If the IS was the best car in the world (which it is not) then such a poll would have criticism from the other side. For me the poll was OK it explained in some ways what type of complaints exist and there commonality.

I don't want to sound as if I'm preaching but we can do without perpetual regurgitation...its tedious.

The points were valid and well made the first time...I'm not one to tell anyone what they should do BUT if my IS220D was bad it would be gone...end of story. IF my IS220D was good I'd be on here telling others about it...hopefully I'd be believed.

The car has turned into a dart board by people who clearly display an inability to play darts...the car is different learn to drive it. The car isn't auto...learn to drive it....the gearing is different...YES for about a week!!!...If you're not used to the gears after 500 miles how long do you want? The coking problem can only be fuel...so it's part of the problem for some. The car is heavy and solid, 13 airbags have to weigh something for starters and the flush under body is another contributor. The boot is small BUT you looked at it day one ...right?? It's beyond belief that someone who wants a large boot would buy any IS petrol or diesel!

Creaks and groans etc...I accept very hard to bear I too would be livid with Lexus ...but plastic has a very high coefficient of expansion when heated or cooled A/C on cooling =creaks from the dash...heat above 23 = creaks from the dash.

Things like keys and electronics give problems in every brand of car nothing new here Lexus are as good or as bad as the others in this regard. My only fault with Lexus is the bloody wheelbarrow wheel I have for a spare. The car Cost Euro52,000 with all leather and sunroof...not cheap...the wheel is rubbish in a car this expensive...that is not to say the car is rubbish. Value for money is hard to interpret. Those who claim not to have rubbished this car at the end of the thread should go back to page one an start reading again. Dealerships are people not the car...if dealers let you down...don't let yourself down by taking more darts at the car

I remain on this forum willing to discuss anything giving and taking sensibly, factualy and in the spirit of good debate, with fellow owners happy and sadly unhappy....

Yours letting go of the bone...

One happy owner (at least)

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This thread has now gone full circle...some posts are repeating the same thing over and over...indeed the same posters are involved.

Fair enough but some points lose value when thrashed to death.

Comments like...people doing 47 mpg "or so they say" and "driving like geriatrics" devalue your opinion because you devalue the other owners comments on both trust and driving style.

If this forum has value it's based on constructive comment...this of course includes criticism of the vehicle and of course praise of the vehicle. I value very highly the well researched comment on this forum that's why I am a member. However this thread in particular has brought out the worst in people by way of making claims instead of perhaps stating facts that hold up!..."I am a fast driver"...whereas I have stated several times that I drive within speed limits. Now we know what speed limits are but what does "fast driver" mean??? Well I can tell you ...poor mpg.

Therefore to claim fast driving and also claim poor mpg is compatable... BUT not an argument to complain about it as if poor economy was a fault of the car. Judge the competition when the playing field is level...Euro IV etc.

I had to smile when I read one comment ..."I think the problem is between the seat and the steering wheel"

For the most part I can aggree with both the complaints that are well stated and the praise that can be backed up by figures...stats..and personal records. However I could throw away 6 pages of diatribe and people slagging each other and each others opinions out of the what is now 8 pages.

Come on lads and lasses we can do do better than this and yes for some of you Lexus can do better...hopefully they will.

I'd love to know how many Lexus IS220D were sold in Europe.

Some posters think because 20 complain thats a majority?? ...Others slagged a poll because they felt it was unfair to ask a forum where there is a lot of descent to give an objective opinion...Perhaps the outcome was top-heavy amongst those who polled...but at least there could be an argument proposed that it was an attempt to gather facts. If the IS was the best car in the world (which it is not) then such a poll would have criticism from the other side. For me the poll was OK it explained in some ways what type of complaints exist and there commonality.

I don't want to sound as if I'm preaching but we can do without perpetual regurgitation...its tedious.

The points were valid and well made the first time...I'm not one to tell anyone what they should do BUT if my IS220D was bad it would be gone...end of story. IF my IS220D was good I'd be on here telling others about it...hopefully I'd be believed.

The car has turned into a dart board by people who clearly display an inability to play darts...the car is different learn to drive it. The car isn't auto...learn to drive it....the gearing is different...YES for about a week!!!...If you're not used to the gears after 500 miles how long do you want? The coking problem can only be fuel...so it's part of the problem for some. The car is heavy and solid, 13 airbags have to weigh something for starters and the flush under body is another contributor. The boot is small BUT you looked at it day one ...right?? It's beyond belief that someone who wants a large boot would buy any IS petrol or diesel!

Creaks and groans etc...I accept very hard to bear I too would be livid with Lexus ...but plastic has a very high coefficient of expansion when heated or cooled A/C on cooling =creaks from the dask...heat above 23 = creaks from the dash.

Things like keys and electronics give problems in every brand of car nothing new here Lexus are as good or as bad as the others in this regard. My only fault with Lexus is the bloody wheelbarrow wheel I have for a spare. The car Cost Euro52,000 with all leather and sunroof...not cheap...the wheel is rubbish in a car this expensive.

I remain on this forum willing to discuss anything giving and taking sensibly, factualy and in the spirit of good debate, with fellow owners happy and sadly unhappy.

Surely a driver has the right to compare any car from the same class to the way they drive. It is their own survey and for them to reprot their findings. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out if your driving is similar to the posters. When buying a car not everything is going to be right with it otherwise we'd all buy one and the other manufacturers would go out of business. We base our purchasing on a checklist of what we want against what the car offers. I chose the IS220 despite its small boot space because of the claimed mpg figures, VEL band and it was for me the best looking car in the class. I don't drive like I stole the car, on the roads I am at or near to the stated speed limits for the area except in nationally posted limits. I do however like to keep the engine in the keen rev band ready for any emergency and where response is possibly needed. Keeping the car in a band where maximum mpg is achieved is almost on the point of labouring my engine and belies the ISs ability to accelerate as you could write a letter and post it before the turbo kicks in. The majority of my driving is in built up areas.

I accept that some people are more than satisfied with the car. Some owners here have difficulty with others saying they aren't and are looking to change when the time and opportunity arises. I originally fancied an RX but thankfully a three day loan soon woke me up from that one. That just about ticked all the boxes for me, but the compromise in fuel efficiency was not something I was prepared to live with. With the recent budget I'm even more glad I didn't buy one.

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This thread has now gone full circle...some posts are repeating the same thing over and over...indeed the same posters are involved.

Fair enough but some points lose value when thrashed to death.

Comments like...people doing 47 mpg "or so they say" and "driving like geriatrics" devalue your opinion because you devalue the other owners comments on both trust and driving style.

If this forum has value it's based on constructive comment...this of course includes criticism of the vehicle and of course praise of the vehicle. I value very highly the well researched comment on this forum that's why I am a member. However this thread in particular has brought out the worst in people by way of making claims instead of perhaps stating facts that hold up!..."I am a fast driver"...whereas I have stated several times that I drive within speed limits. Now we know what speed limits are but what does "fast driver" mean??? Well I can tell you ...poor mpg.

Therefore to claim fast driving and also claim poor mpg is compatable... BUT not an argument to complain about it as if poor economy was a fault of the car. Judge the competition when the playing field is level...Euro IV etc.

I had to smile when I read one comment ..."I think the problem is between the seat and the steering wheel"

For the most part I can aggree with both the complaints that are well stated and the praise that can be backed up by figures...stats..and personal records. However I could throw away 6 pages of diatribe and people slagging each other and each others opinions out of the what is now 8 pages.

Come on lads and lasses we can do do better than this and yes for some of you Lexus can do better...hopefully they will.

I'd love to know how many Lexus IS220D were sold in Europe.

Some posters think because 20 complain thats a majority?? ...Others slagged a poll because they felt it was unfair to ask a forum where there is a lot of descent to give an objective opinion...Perhaps the outcome was top-heavy amongst those who polled...but at least there could be an argument proposed that it was an attempt to gather facts. If the IS was the best car in the world (which it is not) then such a poll would have criticism from the other side. For me the poll was OK it explained in some ways what type of complaints exist and there commonality.

I don't want to sound as if I'm preaching but we can do without perpetual regurgitation...its tedious.

The points were valid and well made the first time...I'm not one to tell anyone what they should do BUT if my IS220D was bad it would be gone...end of story. IF my IS220D was good I'd be on here telling others about it...hopefully I'd be believed.

The car has turned into a dart board by people who clearly display an inability to play darts...the car is different learn to drive it. The car isn't auto...learn to drive it....the gearing is different...YES for about a week!!!...If you're not used to the gears after 500 miles how long do you want? The coking problem can only be fuel...so it's part of the problem for some. The car is heavy and solid, 13 airbags have to weigh something for starters and the flush under body is another contributor. The boot is small BUT you looked at it day one ...right?? It's beyond belief that someone who wants a large boot would buy any IS petrol or diesel!

Creaks and groans etc...I accept very hard to bear I too would be livid with Lexus ...but plastic has a very high coefficient of expansion when heated or cooled A/C on cooling =creaks from the dash...heat above 23 = creaks from the dash.

Things like keys and electronics give problems in every brand of car nothing new here Lexus are as good or as bad as the others in this regard. My only fault with Lexus is the bloody wheelbarrow wheel I have for a spare. The car Cost Euro52,000 with all leather and sunroof...not cheap...the wheel is rubbish in a car this expensive...that is not to say the car is rubbish. Value for money is hard to interpret. Those who claim not to have rubbished this car at the end of the thread should go back to page one an start reading again. Dealerships are people not the car...if dealers let you down...don't let yourself down by taking more darts at the car

I remain on this forum willing to discuss anything giving and taking sensibly, factualy and in the spirit of good debate, with fellow owners happy and sadly unhappy....

Yours letting go of the bone...

One happy owner (at least)

wise words
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This thread has now gone full circle...some posts are repeating the same thing over and over...indeed the same posters are involved.

Fair enough but some points lose value when thrashed to death.

Comments like...people doing 47 mpg "or so they say" and "driving like geriatrics" devalue your opinion because you devalue the other owners comments on both trust and driving style.

If this forum has value it's based on constructive comment...this of course includes criticism of the vehicle and of course praise of the vehicle. I value very highly the well researched comment on this forum that's why I am a member. However this thread in particular has brought out the worst in people by way of making claims instead of perhaps stating facts that hold up!..."I am a fast driver"...whereas I have stated several times that I drive within speed limits. Now we know what speed limits are but what does "fast driver" mean??? Well I can tell you ...poor mpg.

Therefore to claim fast driving and also claim poor mpg is compatable... BUT not an argument to complain about it as if poor economy was a fault of the car. Judge the competition when the playing field is level...Euro IV etc.

I had to smile when I read one comment ..."I think the problem is between the seat and the steering wheel"

For the most part I can aggree with both the complaints that are well stated and the praise that can be backed up by figures...stats..and personal records. However I could throw away 6 pages of diatribe and people slagging each other and each others opinions out of the what is now 8 pages.

Come on lads and lasses we can do do better than this and yes for some of you Lexus can do better...hopefully they will.

I'd love to know how many Lexus IS220D were sold in Europe.

Some posters think because 20 complain thats a majority?? ...Others slagged a poll because they felt it was unfair to ask a forum where there is a lot of descent to give an objective opinion...Perhaps the outcome was top-heavy amongst those who polled...but at least there could be an argument proposed that it was an attempt to gather facts. If the IS was the best car in the world (which it is not) then such a poll would have criticism from the other side. For me the poll was OK it explained in some ways what type of complaints exist and there commonality.

I don't want to sound as if I'm preaching but we can do without perpetual regurgitation...its tedious.

The points were valid and well made the first time...I'm not one to tell anyone what they should do BUT if my IS220D was bad it would be gone...end of story. IF my IS220D was good I'd be on here telling others about it...hopefully I'd be believed.

The car has turned into a dart board by people who clearly display an inability to play darts...the car is different learn to drive it. The car isn't auto...learn to drive it....the gearing is different...YES for about a week!!!...If you're not used to the gears after 500 miles how long do you want? The coking problem can only be fuel...so it's part of the problem for some. The car is heavy and solid, 13 airbags have to weigh something for starters and the flush under body is another contributor. The boot is small BUT you looked at it day one ...right?? It's beyond belief that someone who wants a large boot would buy any IS petrol or diesel!

Creaks and groans etc...I accept very hard to bear I too would be livid with Lexus ...but plastic has a very high coefficient of expansion when heated or cooled A/C on cooling =creaks from the dask...heat above 23 = creaks from the dash.

Things like keys and electronics give problems in every brand of car nothing new here Lexus are as good or as bad as the others in this regard. My only fault with Lexus is the bloody wheelbarrow wheel I have for a spare. The car Cost Euro52,000 with all leather and sunroof...not cheap...the wheel is rubbish in a car this expensive.

I remain on this forum willing to discuss anything giving and taking sensibly, factualy and in the spirit of good debate, with fellow owners happy and sadly unhappy.

Surely a driver has the right to compare any car from the same class to the way they drive. It is their own survey and for them to reprot their findings. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out if your driving is similar to the posters. When buying a car not everything is going to be right with it otherwise we'd all buy one and the other manufacturers would go out of business. We base our purchasing on a checklist of what we want against what the car offers. I chose the IS220 despite its small boot space because of the claimed mpg figures, VEL band and it was for me the best looking car in the class. I don't drive like I stole the car, on the roads I am at or near to the stated speed limits for the area except in nationally posted limits. I do however like to keep the engine in the keen rev band ready for any emergency and where response is possibly needed. Keeping the car in a band where maximum mpg is achieved is almost on the point of labouring my engine and belies the ISs ability to accelerate as you could write a letter and post it before the turbo kicks in. The majority of my driving is in built up areas.

I accept that some people are more than satisfied with the car. Some owners here have difficulty with others saying they aren't and are looking to change when the time and opportunity arises. I originally fancied an RX but thankfully a three day loan soon woke me up from that one. That just about ticked all the boxes for me, but the compromise in fuel efficiency was not something I was prepared to live with. With the recent budget I'm even more glad I didn't buy one.

one observation.in your first post on this thread you tell us your mpg is33 onyour last post you say that the majority of your driving is in built up areas .this is known as urban driving.the is gov figures for urban are 35,i do not understand you at all.
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My only fault with Lexus is the bloody wheelbarrow wheel I have for a spare. The car Cost Euro52,000 with all leather and sunroof...not cheap...the wheel is rubbish in a car this expensive...

Bearing in mind the tyres are directional and staggered front to back, which wheel would you like? Whichever wheel you choose it would only have a 1 in 4 chance of being the right one for the situation. The spacesaver fits all 4 corners of the car and frees up vital extra space. However, I agree with much of what you say. When I went to look at the IS in the showroom I looked in the boot, decided it was fit for my purpose in terms of volume and that was it. If I can't get the kitchen sink in it now I have no one to blame but myself.

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This thread has now gone full circle...some posts are repeating the same thing over and over...indeed the same posters are involved.

Fair enough but some points lose value when thrashed to death.

Comments like...people doing 47 mpg "or so they say" and "driving like geriatrics" devalue your opinion because you devalue the other owners comments on both trust and driving style.

If this forum has value it's based on constructive comment...this of course includes criticism of the vehicle and of course praise of the vehicle. I value very highly the well researched comment on this forum that's why I am a member. However this thread in particular has brought out the worst in people by way of making claims instead of perhaps stating facts that hold up!..."I am a fast driver"...whereas I have stated several times that I drive within speed limits. Now we know what speed limits are but what does "fast driver" mean??? Well I can tell you ...poor mpg.

Therefore to claim fast driving and also claim poor mpg is compatable... BUT not an argument to complain about it as if poor economy was a fault of the car. Judge the competition when the playing field is level...Euro IV etc.

I had to smile when I read one comment ..."I think the problem is between the seat and the steering wheel"

For the most part I can aggree with both the complaints that are well stated and the praise that can be backed up by figures...stats..and personal records. However I could throw away 6 pages of diatribe and people slagging each other and each others opinions out of the what is now 8 pages.

Come on lads and lasses we can do do better than this and yes for some of you Lexus can do better...hopefully they will.

I'd love to know how many Lexus IS220D were sold in Europe.

Some posters think because 20 complain thats a majority?? ...Others slagged a poll because they felt it was unfair to ask a forum where there is a lot of descent to give an objective opinion...Perhaps the outcome was top-heavy amongst those who polled...but at least there could be an argument proposed that it was an attempt to gather facts. If the IS was the best car in the world (which it is not) then such a poll would have criticism from the other side. For me the poll was OK it explained in some ways what type of complaints exist and there commonality.

I don't want to sound as if I'm preaching but we can do without perpetual regurgitation...its tedious.

The points were valid and well made the first time...I'm not one to tell anyone what they should do BUT if my IS220D was bad it would be gone...end of story. IF my IS220D was good I'd be on here telling others about it...hopefully I'd be believed.

The car has turned into a dart board by people who clearly display an inability to play darts...the car is different learn to drive it. The car isn't auto...learn to drive it....the gearing is different...YES for about a week!!!...If you're not used to the gears after 500 miles how long do you want? The coking problem can only be fuel...so it's part of the problem for some. The car is heavy and solid, 13 airbags have to weigh something for starters and the flush under body is another contributor. The boot is small BUT you looked at it day one ...right?? It's beyond belief that someone who wants a large boot would buy any IS petrol or diesel!

Creaks and groans etc...I accept very hard to bear I too would be livid with Lexus ...but plastic has a very high coefficient of expansion when heated or cooled A/C on cooling =creaks from the dask...heat above 23 = creaks from the dash.

Things like keys and electronics give problems in every brand of car nothing new here Lexus are as good or as bad as the others in this regard. My only fault with Lexus is the bloody wheelbarrow wheel I have for a spare. The car Cost Euro52,000 with all leather and sunroof...not cheap...the wheel is rubbish in a car this expensive.

I remain on this forum willing to discuss anything giving and taking sensibly, factualy and in the spirit of good debate, with fellow owners happy and sadly unhappy.

Surely a driver has the right to compare any car from the same class to the way they drive. It is their own survey and for them to reprot their findings. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out if your driving is similar to the posters. When buying a car not everything is going to be right with it otherwise we'd all buy one and the other manufacturers would go out of business. We base our purchasing on a checklist of what we want against what the car offers. I chose the IS220 despite its small boot space because of the claimed mpg figures, VEL band and it was for me the best looking car in the class. I don't drive like I stole the car, on the roads I am at or near to the stated speed limits for the area except in nationally posted limits. I do however like to keep the engine in the keen rev band ready for any emergency and where response is possibly needed. Keeping the car in a band where maximum mpg is achieved is almost on the point of labouring my engine and belies the ISs ability to accelerate as you could write a letter and post it before the turbo kicks in. The majority of my driving is in built up areas.

I accept that some people are more than satisfied with the car. Some owners here have difficulty with others saying they aren't and are looking to change when the time and opportunity arises. I originally fancied an RX but thankfully a three day loan soon woke me up from that one. That just about ticked all the boxes for me, but the compromise in fuel efficiency was not something I was prepared to live with. With the recent budget I'm even more glad I didn't buy one.

one observation.in your first post on this thread you tell us your mpg is33 onyour last post you say that the majority of your driving is in built up areas .this is known as urban driving.the is gov figures for urban are 35,i do not understand you at all.

Well 33 in my book isn't 35 and achieving it is painful. If I drive normally that MPG drops to around 28mpg. You seem intent on a fight, which I am not going to give you. I'll leave you with my view; the car isn't all it's cracked up to be and the local dealership leaves a lot to be desired. If you're happy with it, then good for you.

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I do however like to keep the engine in the keen rev band ready for any emergency and where response is possibly needed. Keeping the car in a band where maximum mpg is achieved is almost on the point of labouring my engine and belies the ISs ability to accelerate as you could write a letter and post it before the turbo kicks in.

keeping the IS engine in the keen rev band is keeping it 2000-2600rpm, is you mentioned previously, right?

2000-2600rpm are the revs where the car pulls out the max of the torque.

You want to tell us, that driving with 177hp petrol engine between 4500-5000rpm (these are the revs where usually the petrol engines pull the max torque) will give you better mpg in urban driving?

If we can compare with alfa 159 2,2JTS - this car is about the same weight than IS220d.

Alfa 0-60mph - 8.8s

IS220d 0-60mph - 8.9s

very similar

The power out of 159 2,2 JTS = 183hp, IS220d = 177hp - very similar.

Government figures for Alfa 159 - urban 22mpg, extra urban 38mpg, average 30mpg.

The IS220d goverment figures are well known.

As others say - you have to compare comparable. Otherwise you can moan that the D60 is crap, because its consumption can not match the VW Lupo's TDI 70mpg...

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Just a note here guys. I've just dropped my car off at the dealer for them to take a look at the mpg issue, shaking mirror and now juddering brakes. They gave me a 220d as a courtesy car. By the time I got home I was straight on the phone. There is clearly something wrong with my car, the pull from about 1400rpm is staggering compared to mine (No probs with 1st gear at all!). If mine drove the way the courtesy car does I don't think I'd have any worries - told the service manager it felt like a different machine!

I really hope that they can sort it. I'll post the results of their efforts later!!

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I said a few pages back that this thread had lost it's way and needed to stop...so I have backed off - but here I am posting again. I really won't post on this thread again, so please don't coax me.. :shutit: :whistling:

There are 2 very distinct sides, and some of us have been plagued with cars which keep having to go back for work. Others seem to be absolutely satisfied...whether you give any credence to the poll or not, it shows quite clearly that there is a problem - not of perception - but physical. Lets get to the point... :question:

All you Lexus fans, by way of Cust Sat surveys from the past, made us believe that we would get a reliable, comfortable, well made car and dealerships who were a cut above the rest. Back this up with the Lexus claims that it is one of the cleanest diesels, refined, economical etc, and the plot is set...we tested the cars with our arms legs bottoms and heads, and bought with our hearts... :shutit:

So we buy one...in the thought that it would never see a dealer unless it needed an oil change... :winky:

What do we find :question: Issues mentioned in the last 8 or 9 pages...on a personal issues note, I am still waiting for new vents for the front which they have had to order..they still creak and drive you mad...the dash still rattles, the passenger seat is beginning to vibrate and rattle too...and these are not silent noises - you have to turn up the radio to down them out...they couldn't do the mirror as they are apparently waiting for Lexus to finally make the repair genarally available (or so I was told) so that still vibrates...

Some cars have had too much work done on them then you would expect, whether it creaks, groans, ECU re-maps, new mirror assemblies, Pipes, 5th Injectors and there are some people, who feel that the Lexus ownership experience has just not been good enough. Not against the fanatical hype anyway...Now I know some of you will start jumping up and down and say "here he goes again, generalising..." but the facts remain.

Mine has been in so many times for warranty work, that it has, quite frankly, become a bit of a joke in the office and the wider family. I have actually lost count now...Is this what Lexus really wanted? Is this what you fans wanted to hear on this forum? No...so I don't blame the comments. It's a bloomin' shame that they sometimes become personal. I don't recall seeing seen that on this forum until this thread started...

Not matter what you say about german cars having things fall off, engines blow up etc, how expensive they are etc, you must remember that they sell 20-30 times more cars than Lexus do at an estimate at least....it's no wonder that the minority of their failures look like big numbers....and 'cos most are driven by reps they can be neglected...

People are not stupid. Lexus owners are not cleverer. They buy german cars with their eye's wide open...being un-biased, I think all european luxury cars drive well and do the basic things very very well...they are bigger (important if you need access to the rear), very quiet, boots, Economical, and lets face it - the sheer flexibility and options of being able to get the engine and transmission combo you want...and you can have Leather, or lumbar support, or sports seats, or just Sat nav, or just Bluetooth, or just premium sound systems, HID's with or without cornering etc etc. Now do you get the point? People buy them because they can be tailored and it is "your" car, made to your spec when you order one. Lexus seem to think that if you give them everything, then that is it...it might be for some people...but the facts prove that most people will still buy german cars even if they work out more expensive. It probably makes things easy and quick on a production line...

It is said on here so many times that an equivalent BMW will cost £10k more...but who in their right mind would actually spec a car up to such a level? So many of the things are nice to haves on a Lex, not essential...and you wouldn't have it IF you had to fork out for it... For example, if you didn't have Leather, you wouldn't need cooling (or possibly heated seats); the sheer weight of electric seats without memory function...why? Give me a ratchet any time - much quicker...and then oooops - they end up with a car that weighs as much as a Jag XJ... :tomato: oh dear or dear

so as VFM is concerned no one will argue that the Lexus is bad. If you read the latest Autocar comments, they state that the IS is an average car and is placed behine a passatt, renault, ford and an Alfa...why? It's expensive, too cramped, noisy and uncomfortable...sounds harsh...and when you look at the facts and figures, it is one of the smallest inside, the heaviest, the worst polluter etc - and the argument that the cars that have beaten it are more modern falls over when you see the BMW steals it...it came out before the IS...as didthe Pasatt...

Anyway - I know it'll make some people frow when they read what I put above, but whilst I think I could still see my self with an IS250 Auto, I really canot see the 220d lasting till 2012 when I was going to sell it...anyone want to buy it :question:

I am really worried about the coking issue. Last time I saw this happen to breather pipes, the engine needed de-coking. Admittedly it was an old car, but I am a tad concerned what damage is done long term...Can anyone say hand on heart that these early life issues have not harmed the long term reliability of some of these cars?

I've said it all along that the customer Satisfaction surveys say more about fanatical owners and dealers then they do about the cars themselves...else Skoda's would not out perform a VW...as an example

I am genuinely happy that Lexus will resolve these issues over time. I've heard about their philosophy of stopping production lines when quality drops etc in real time...it was the reason why I asked for all fixes to be applied to my car when it was being made...and guess what...it still turned up with those issues. So we never got off to a good start...and some of the philosophy appears to have failed...that is how I as an end user have seen it...

When you cut out the hype, a proportion of the 220d owners will remain unsatisfied...they are not loyal to Lexus, or probably any brand, and you cannot blame people for comparing them to what they came from...and think about why they are complaining. They have been let down...and the car is failing on some basic things in some cases.

Believe what you want - just to make the fans feel better - it is only happening on a limited, small number of cars. Feel better now? :lol:

Going back to Matts initial question, people can read this all and make their own mind up....

Is it that the Lexus is no worse against figures than any other car? The "...spirit.de" from Matus tends to state that some cars are much worse...all I would say, yet again, is take a long hard test drive....let the fans enjoy their cars and us to work with our dealers and get closer to perfection...at least until the warranty runs out!

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What can I say. I have come to respect Jamboo's objectivity only to see it collapse. That post must have all the negative experiences of the 220d ever recorded put together and generalised to concern a major part of all the individual cars on the road. I can see no basis for such generalisation. I'm particularly disappointed in the hint that all the good name Lexus has built for them is only a result of die-hard fanboys. So all those who are saying they're happy with Lexus are fanatics whose opinion shouldn't be noted? That's a bit cynical, isn't it?

I'm fighting the urge to paint a completely opposite view on the 220d to balance things up. I easily could, but decided not to, because it wouldn't be any more objective than Jamboo's post. Maybe it's time to let things settle.

And while I'm disappointed in Jamboo's (hopefully momentary) lack of judgement, I think I can understand him/her. It's easy to get all emotional when you've gone through all that Jamboo has and then see someone telling you that you're wrong blaming the car. So, Jamboo, I sympathize but disagree. Nothing personal, just telling it like I see it!

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What can I say. I have come to respect Jamboo's objectivity only to see it collapse. That post must have all the negative experiences of the 220d ever recorded put together and generalised to concern a major part of all the individual cars on the road. I can see no basis for such generalisation. I'm particularly disappointed in the hint that all the good name Lexus has built for them is only a result of die-hard fanboys. So all those who are saying they're happy with Lexus are fanatics whose opinion shouldn't be noted? That's a bit cynical, isn't it?

I'm fighting the urge to paint a completely opposite view on the 220d to balance things up. I easily could, but decided not to, because it wouldn't be any more objective than Jamboo's post. Maybe it's time to let things settle.

And while I'm disappointed in Jamboo's (hopefully momentary) lack of judgement, I think I can understand him/her. It's easy to get all emotional when you've gone through all that Jamboo has and then see someone telling you that you're wrong blaming the car. So, Jamboo, I sympathize but disagree. Nothing personal, just telling it like I see it!

Oh for crying out loud! What is it with some people. Why can't you accept some of us are not happy with the car and for good reason. They may be reasons pertinent to ourselves but they are valid to us. If you're happy bloody good for you, but don't harp on at us when we air our dissapointment as is our right. Just because we're not happy doesn't make us wrong. You happy owners aren't wrong either. This is the Lexus experience felt in different ways. I think it's time to finish this. Viewpoints have been made from both sides, let the reader make up their own minds now.

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To be honest, I think this thread has now run its course & come back full circle again and again

Therefore this thread is now closed to stop further bickering & circling

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