Fitting A Massive 15inch Sub In My Is200

[Jon557]

Hey,

This was tricky so I thought I'd take some photos, basically I bought this massive 15 inch sub with built in amp for my Lexus IS200 which I have just bought. I thought the boot was big enough but the opening was too small. I almost had it in at one point but it was starting to damage/scratch my new sub. So I took its rubber edge off (anti-vibration seal) as it was quite chunky, then I took the floor of the boot out for more depth and to make the sub easier to rotate and fit, I also removed the top part of the boot seal, near the window to give me an extra 1mm, and removed the plastic cover at the bottom of the boot hatch where the lock clicks in. I put a bit of masking tape over the silver finish on the sub to protect it. Then the sub seemed to slide in with ease, although getting the floor backing was a bit more work as the sub is really heavy.

Anyhoo, I will attach some photos.

[DJ Wozza]

lucky there was a curve on the box and you could take bits off :o

I had troubles too as the gap is 14" so had to have a re-designed box.... :tsktsk:

Glad you got it in eventually :D

[Jon557]

Yea :-)

It's all wired up now but for some reason it doesn't work, YET. The light comes on, on the AMP built into the back of the box and I checked that the power is 12v and the remote turn on is 10v so it's ideal.

I've never had a base box before and not sure what the knobs and switches are. I roughly know but not sure what to set them too. Like "phase 0 to 180", from my degree I know it will shift the frequency but not sure how to set it. And the "xover frequency Hz" is 40Hz to 200Hz?!? And the gain knob (6v to 12v) I guess is the amplifier volume in a way. The RCA cable is connected to the headunit. The headunit has an option for either SUB out or REAR out (apparently for an active amp), I put it to SUB first but am thinking the sub has an active amp first. So I'll try fiddling the settings tomorrow.

[DJ Wozza]

Phase should be either 0 or 180, your ears will tell you which

The Crossover Frequency should be around 100Hz or less, probably nearer 65-80Hz

With the Head Unit, you will have in the instructions a guide to adjusting the Subwoofer Level.

Keep the Gain low to start with, but remember it is better to drive the signal hard (75-80%)

from the Head unit, with the Amp set low with the gain.

Make sure you follow the instructions carefully, and the RCA Phonos are connected correctly.

Once you have Bass coming through, then you can start to carfully set it up.

The Gain should be set low, say a quarter to a third, the increase the volume of the Head Unit

to approx 75-80% max volume, and then very very slowly get someone to turn it up whilst

you are in the drivers seat. The Bass should underpin everything, not dominate too much.

Too high and it will become very tiring on your ears, & quite quickly too.

Some cars react differently to others, in one car that sub may sound best with the crossover set at just 50Hz,

in another it may sound best at 80Hz. There is no particular right or wrong, just be sensible and let your ears

be your guide, wacking everything up to max will not get it sounding it's very best I promise you.

If in doubt, get someone who is experienced to give you a hand mate, better to ask first than

end up with a nasty smell of burning electrical circuits :o

[Jon557]

Thanks for the help.

I looked at everything I can think of, I have found that one of the phonos was broken inside the connector as I think I pulled it because it was very stuck. I tried another cable but still doesn't work yet. I set my headunit to output -10db of high, -10db of mid and +10db for low to help me test the base. But the base is the same, for a 15inch sub I should notice it shouldn't I?! lol, bloody hope so for the money.

Well I got my 10cd changer working and wired up, so 1 point for that. My mate is going to help me with the sub tomorrow or monday, he knows alot more than me. In the mean time, I will try another headunit and try the other input, not the phono cable (there is a square 4 pin connector that can piggie back of a normal speaker apparently).

Cheers, Jon

[Jon557]

Does anyone have a 1 to 2 farad (or more) capacitor in their car? If so, do you notice the difference? I have read the benefits not only include better/sharp music but also take strain away from the car's Battery etc, and can possibly help towards fuel economy.

[DJ Wozza]

Does anyone have a 1 to 2 farad (or more) capacitor in their car?

yep, 2.5 Farads

If so, do you notice the difference?

Yes but it is a stop gap between a single Battery and a split charge 2 Battery sysytem. It may well be enough for your system.

In my system it is at the crucial crossover point, if I upgrade any further, a split charge 2 Battery system/uprated alternator

or combination will be the next step.

I have read the benefits not only include better/sharp music but also take strain away from the car's battery etc

The theory is that the Capacitor can discharge & recharge much quicker than the cars electrical system (Battery & Alternator),

it supllies power at the peak drain (big bass beat) and recharges in the gaps in between.

However opinions are divided as to the practical eveidence, some people swear by them, others are less than convinced or

even downright against them (stating they cause more issues than they solve). I personally believe they can help, however

one thing I do know is the cheap ones are really a waste of money, go for a high end brand such as Directed/Stinger/Rockford

etc and 2 Farads upwards, I really would stay away from things like Pyle, Boss,Fusion,Mutant etc.

A power cap as I suggest will be probably £100 upwards, and then bear in mind you are getting towards Boot Mounted (gel type)

Batteries & Split Charging System territory... A good quality Power Cap will fit in the gap between a standard charging system

and an uprated 2 Battery system IMO.

Also before you consider using a cap, first step would be check the state of the cars Battery (and if a bit tired replace it with the

highest Ah or Amp Hour Battery ou can afford), check your power wiring & earth wiring is thick enough for the job.

Check also the Alternator is putting out a good stable charge.

...and can possibly help towards fuel economy.

you are having a Girraffe or someone has been pulling your leg

For example....

a Power Cap takes power from the cars electrical system, the generate the power, there is a drain firstly on the cars Battery,

then on the cars charging system (alternator and alternator drive belt). This drain is transferred to the crank from the drive

belt, and therefore through the crank pulley to the crank itself, then conrods & pistons. So that drain means more fuel has to be

squirted into the engine to keep the engine's revs the same as before the load was applied.

So as for increasing fuel economy, anything including big Sound Installs, Air Conditioning, Heated Seats/Rear Windows

all takes extra fuel, never less.

Hope this helps you :D

[jason_l]

I have a 1 Farad in mine, more than enough for me as i don't have any subs! But i notice a huge difference with it, before when the stereo was turned up the headlights would dim with the music. Now everything seems to be fine! :P

Jason :P

[84Stoney]

I looked at everything I can think of, I have found that one of the phonos was broken inside the connector as I think I pulled it because it was very stuck. I tried another cable but still doesn't work yet. I set my headunit to output -10db of high, -10db of mid and +10db for low to help me test the base. But the base is the same, for a 15inch sub I should notice it shouldn't I?! lol, bloody hope so for the money.

Firstly, if one of the phonos was broken, you should still get signal from the other one!

If you do not notice the bass from the sub then it is not working. That is a massive sub and will generate massive mass. Believe me, i've heard them, and you will notice it, so will anyone within the same street, when turned up!

I have the Vibe Space (3000w), pointing throu my ski hatch and currently running about 40% on the gain control, (still amazingly powerfull!) crossover at around 75Hz, phase 0.

If the light on the amp is on, then you have the power (+ive, ground, remote) wired FINE. But your problem is with the signal. I have used several Vibe subs over the years and it is unlikely that the sub is the problem. If you can, try a different headunit and/or phono cable. It may be that the headunit needs the sub output to be switched on/turned up - make sure you have checked all of the menus. Also, the sub will run fine from the rear output (if you have no other amps that need it). What i would do, would be run a long phono from my home stereo, if possible, just to check the sub is working.

Hope this helps. Let me know how you get on.

If you are only running one amp (on the sub) you may be better off with a new, uprated, Battery rather than a power cap, as you will only be running a max of 1500w through it, and makes for a silmpler instalation, costwise it will prob be about the same. I'm considering it at the mo and leaning towards the Battery route, but ultimatly it is up to you.

[Jon557]

Hey, thanks for your help and advice.

Today I used a portable cd player to test the base, a new phono cable that is plastic molded and in perfect condition and we even put it in my friend car to test it. He has an amp and a 10inch sub fully working, connected the headunit, power cables and remote turn on. But still it doesn't respond, we think in this case the sub is indeed fooked. Waiting to hear back from the site I bought it from.

I think I will get a new Battery at some point, a high amp long life one. I did it on my previous car, a fiesta and even the engine was easier to start. Then I am thinking a 1.5farad vibe capacitor.

:-)

[sorted vti]

i know this might sound silly but is the sub connected to the amp. as in, inside the box. have you checked the wire from the amp to the sub?

surely even if the sub in knackered it will still make a thud when switched on, or some sort of noise?

[Bazza]

...and can possibly help towards fuel economy.

you are having a Girraffe or someone has been pulling your leg

For example....

a Power Cap takes power from the cars electrical system, the generate the power, there is a drain firstly on the cars Battery,

then on the cars charging system (alternator and alternator drive belt). This drain is transferred to the crank from the drive

belt, and therefore through the crank pulley to the crank itself, then conrods & pistons. So that drain means more fuel has to be

squirted into the engine to keep the engine's revs the same as before the load was applied.

So as for increasing fuel economy, anything including big Sound Installs, Air Conditioning, Heated Seats/Rear Windows

all takes extra fuel, never less.

Hope this helps you :D

how can the alternator put strain on the belt and/or the crankshaft

there is no forces applied by the alternator to the crank, it is rotated by the crank, and if in working order will have minimal resistance to being turned regardless of the state of charge of the Battery

[Jon557]

Well, I did think that and I unscrewed the amp from the back and all the wires were connected to the speaker and other parts, but I couldn't get more than a few inches gap so couldn't fully check the circuit board.

[DJ Wozza]

...and can possibly help towards fuel economy.

you are having a Girraffe or someone has been pulling your leg

For example....

a Power Cap takes power from the cars electrical system, the generate the power, there is a drain firstly on the cars Battery,

then on the cars charging system (alternator and alternator drive belt). This drain is transferred to the crank from the drive

belt, and therefore through the crank pulley to the crank itself, then conrods & pistons. So that drain means more fuel has to be

squirted into the engine to keep the engine's revs the same as before the load was applied.

So as for increasing fuel economy, anything including big Sound Installs, Air Conditioning, Heated Seats/Rear Windows

all takes extra fuel, never less.

Hope this helps you :D

how can the alternator put strain on the belt and/or the crankshaft

there is no forces applied by the alternator to the crank, it is rotated by the crank, and if in working order will have minimal resistance to being turned regardless of the state of charge of the Battery

Turn on your A/C and hear the drop of the engine revs, the Alternator via the belt has put that strain on the engine via it's new load

as it is being asked to produce more power. Same thing with Heated rear windows, Big Sound Systems etc.

Maybe I'm not explaining it particularly well, but I'm pretty sure you know exactly what I mean.

The alternator causes more drag on the belt to generate more power.

More load on an engine = more fuel not less re my point above. My reasoning is re-inforced by Clarksons trip to Scotland & back in the

Diesel Audi (A8 I think but may have been A6). He kept the Heating off in the car becuase producing the extra power needed would

burn more Fuel. If anyone wants to tell me an extra electrical load on an alternator causes no increase in fuel consumption,

maybe the worlds energy problems are solved.

(Please note:- before someone comes back with Clarkson used the Radio as it only used a tiny bit of power, it probably does when

compared to what the power 15" Subwoofer & Amp above will drain, probably somewhere between 30-50 amps or possibly more)

[aztecbandit1]

The alternator doesn't add load to the belt its the clutch in the air con compressor engaging when you turn it on hence the drop in revs, as the air con pump is a free running unit untill its activated by the switch?

The alternator itself doesnt actually do anything to the engine, but spin at the engine speed the faster it spins the more amps it produces and is regulated by a built in regulator, An alternator is an electromechanical device that converts mechanical energy to alternating current, electrical energy.

The sensor for the regulator is usually connected inline to the positive post of the Battery and when it senses a low voltage condition, allows more energy to flow in the rotor coil, creating more energy in the stator coils. It does this through a series of points, raising the points off of the contacts to allow less current to flow, or dropping points onto the contacts to increase current flow. Quite a clever thing the alternator :D

So the alternator itself doesnt actually cause any extra drag on the belts due to it being the regulator that ups the power, For instance, when you turn up the stereo or any other devise in the car with the headlights turned on you will see them drop in power, but when you put power on through the accelerator pedal they will get brighter as the regulator and alternator has now increased its power output with the revs increase.

If your running a big amp/speaker setup drawing 30-50AMPS from a 65 amp regulated alternator (most alternators put out on average 65 amps), it doesnt leave you much to play with for other things like the headlights ect ( think the IS200/300 alternator puts out 85amps but will look into that if you want? ) it would be good to upgrade to a higher ampage Battery to hold more reserve power and a higher ampage alternator to supply the system.

But as Wozza matey, says to increase the power of the alternator you need more revs hence more fuel, so i know what your on about mate but just thought i'd add that useles bit of information and as i built alternators for 11 years and thought i'd share it, and that i'm bored :D

[redz_UK]

ok..

im slightly confused now.. i have always been under the understanding that the more revs the car has, the faster the belt is turning and therefore the alternator has more mechanical energy to turn into electrical energy...

this understanding is suported by all of the competitions where rules state either engine on (so no impact here) engine runinnin or engine runnin and allowed to rev the engine. if you have a volt meter then it shows more voltage when the revs are higher??

im not sure if wozza explained it too as im sure i havent either but in my understanding and a few mechanics and ICE shops all agree that the alternator supplies more power when the revs are higher up to its maximum output which when reached will not go any higher..

therefore more revs = more fuel!

anyway.. back to orginal post.. new Battery over power cap!

[aztecbandit1]

ok..

im slightly confused now.. i have always been under the understanding that the more revs the car has, the faster the belt is turning and therefore the alternator has more mechanical energy to turn into electrical energy...

this understanding is suported by all of the competitions where rules state either engine on (so no impact here) engine runinnin or engine runnin and allowed to rev the engine. if you have a volt meter then it shows more voltage when the revs are higher??

im not sure if wozza explained it too as im sure i havent either but in my understanding and a few mechanics and ICE shops all agree that the alternator supplies more power when the revs are higher up to its maximum output which when reached will not go any higher..

therefore more revs = more fuel!

anyway.. back to orginal post.. new battery over power cap!

yeh matey the faster the engine turns the more power the alternator puts out but is regulated by the alternator, so faster engine speed does equall more fuel,which is what i basicaly said above? :)

If i was installing a bigger set up i'd go for the Battery and higher ampage alternator.

[Y2Kanjar]

i gave up trying to fit 2 15 in mine so now i got i 12....powerful

any luck on getting it working....

[84Stoney]

i know this might sound silly but is the sub connected to the amp. as in, inside the box. have you checked the wire from the amp to the sub?

Thats what I was going to suggest.

Gone a little off topic here!

If you have supplied the amp and sub with what you know for sure are good electrical and signal feeds. Checked all connections, including inside the box (amp to sub), take it back!

Nothing else to suggest mate!

@aztecbandit1, thanks for the alternator lesson.

[redz_UK]

ok..

im slightly confused now.. i have always been under the understanding that the more revs the car has, the faster the belt is turning and therefore the alternator has more mechanical energy to turn into electrical energy...

this understanding is suported by all of the competitions where rules state either engine on (so no impact here) engine runinnin or engine runnin and allowed to rev the engine. if you have a volt meter then it shows more voltage when the revs are higher??

im not sure if wozza explained it too as im sure i havent either but in my understanding and a few mechanics and ICE shops all agree that the alternator supplies more power when the revs are higher up to its maximum output which when reached will not go any higher..

therefore more revs = more fuel!

anyway.. back to orginal post.. new battery over power cap!

yeh matey the faster the engine turns the more power the alternator puts out but is regulated by the alternator, so faster engine speed does equall more fuel,which is what i basicaly said above? :)

If i was installing a bigger set up i'd go for the Battery and higher ampage alternator.

ok.. all agreed then!!

first step is new Battery, then upgrade the big three.. i have a 2f power cap and will be getting rid of. does more harm than good!

@aztecbandit - any idea what other alternators will fit and if it 85ah?

i could do with about 200ah

the only way to get two 15's in is to a: use two seperate small sealed boxes b: go infite baffle or c: build thw box inside the boot area..

i did consider removeing the meatl seat back but it needed too much strengthening so the car didnt twist apart!!

[DJ Wozza]

@Aztec, yes matey, I understand what you are saying above re the alternator, I was always under the impression that the Alternator

has extra capacitiy so when the load increases on the electrical system, it senses the extra load, and extra coils or whatever kick in

to generate the extra power needed compared to when the electrical system is under a light load.

What I was trying to explain (albeit cackhandedly above ) was that when the extra power needs to be generated, it must put extra

drain on the engine via the drive belt, (hence the slight drop in revs when the Heated Rear Window is on) and that extra drag gets back

to the engine itself. I'll now go get me coat :winky:

:re the big 3,

I have noticed after doing 2 of the "3" there was very little noticeable difference, but then finally fitting an extra power cable to the

Alternators Positive output terminal (to the Battery) to complete the "3" there has been a noticeable improvement when running my

system very hard. Sound advice for cost effectively getting the most from your electrical system, as Split Charging systems, Batteries,

and higher capacity Alternators are quite expensive.

See here for info on upgrading The Big 3

Thanks to Redz for the link

[aztecbandit1]

@Aztec, yes matey, I understand what you are saying above re the alternator, I was always under the impression that the Alternator

has extra capacitiy so when the load increases on the electrical system, it senses the extra load, and extra coils or whatever kick in

to generate the extra power needed compared to when the electrical system is under a light load.

What I was trying to explain (albeit cackhandedly above ) was that when the extra power needs to be generated, it must put extra

drain on the engine via the drive belt, (hence the slight drop in revs when the Heated Rear Window is on) and that extra drag gets back

to the engine itself. I'll now go get me coat :winky:

:re the big 3,

I have noticed after doing 2 of the "3" there was very little noticeable difference, but then finally fitting an extra power cable to the

Alternators Positive output terminal (to the Battery) to complete the "3" there has been a noticeable improvement when running my

system very hard. Sound advice for cost effectively getting the most from your electrical system, as Split Charging systems, Batteries,

and higher capacity Alternators are quite expensive.

See here for info on upgrading The Big 3

Thanks to Redz for the link

:D I did say i was bored mate

i'll try and find out for you guys what alternator upgrades are available for the IS200/300 be it a new unit or regulator to up the amps a bit if you like me to? The biggest one i had fitted was on my old fiat estate that put out 160amps, but i did upgrade that myself and it was a few years ago. :winky

Anyway back on topic sorry

[84Stoney]

I'll try and find out for you guys what alternator upgrades are available for the IS200/300 be it a new unit or regulator to up the amps a bit if you like me to?

Yes please.

[Jon557]

Anyway...............

I wasn't saying that new music equipment saves on fuel consumption, I read that if you already have a massive sub and power draining music system a capacitor would improve alot including the fuel consumption (probably because it irons our power spikes?) for those loud moments? Maybe not but Im not sure?! Surely a capacitor won't actually use much power as it's not ment to, just passes it on (i.e. leakage, lcd screen is all I can think of).

Cheers, Jon

[84Stoney]

Well the idea of it is to get more power to the amp. To always have the max power available for the amp to use. Therefore, it must draw more power from the car. Using the capacitor to store it while it is waiting to be used.

Anyway, If cared about fuel consumption, I wouldn't drive a supercharged Lexus!

I have looked into power caps several times over the years, but never got one. But I have found a very split opinion on them, some strongly recommend them, some say stay well clear! And I'm taking from knowledgable proffessionals on ICE (and Halfords as well!) You will find the same on this forum.

I admit to not having read this topic in full, but there's a fair chance that (from memory), Wozza would say to get a decent one, and Redz_UK would say they are all pants. (Those two both know plenty on the matter.)

Power caps are like Marmite.

I think I am going to go down the route of a bigger Battery and uprated engine bay cables, (possible bigger alternator in future, if needed). Planning on getting an Earthing kit too, unsure as to how much this will benefit the stereo, but was gonna get one anyway, and it certainly will do it no harm!