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No, but I'm off to Sweden next month so maybe I should take the Scoob lol!! ;) Surely you need to develop your Scandinavian flick with any Scoob :D they do like to understeer!!

I'd love to see the faces of people watching the Lexus lol!!

Clearly, you've never driven on a proper winter road in Scandinavia. :lol:

I look forward to seeing a video on youtube how you throw your scoob in a Scandinavian flick in Sweden. :D

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I look forward to seeing a video on youtube how you throw your scoob in a Scandinavian flick in Sweden. :D

LOL! I reckon I'd be familiar with the hedges ;)

I'll see if our ski transfer bus driver knows the 'flick' lol!!!

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Now that we have a little spread of snow i thought id test the tyres to my needs. Took my car to the dundee law hill which is a little steep and bigger than any slope id tried before the tyres were fitted. Drove up it no problem so i thought they cant be that good. So took it to law street just before adelaide place junction in dundee (check google maps if you must) which is about as steep as i could think about, this time i stopped and done a hill start. A small slip at the rear and then the car just pulled me up the hill. I now know i cannot get stuck anywhere that i need to go. Snow tyres have amazed me!

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I recently tried to aquire snow tyres for a customer of mine for his mercedes. I have a couple of major tyre suppliers,neither of which could do me a snow tyre. I eventually had some shipped in from Sweeden via one of my suppliers. The customer wanted a set of wheels to go with the tyres so he just has to change wheels in the summer rather than swapping tyres. So set for winter set for summer. The guy lives down the road from me (note the word down) I havnt had a problem getting up the road were we live and neither has he. I didnt spend over thousand pound for tyres though. The guy had been reading up on the web about snow tyres, on websites based in Sweeden and such places where they have lots of snow. Personally where i live theres not enough snow to need snow tyres then again we dont have enough sun for a convertable either but i have one. In my opinion you dont need them in thsi country they are a lot of money for a few weeks of the white stuff,the fact i got my customer got home with them and i got ferther up the same lane without them would tell me at least my customer didnt need them after all i did drive past his house on my way home.

Thers no law against putting 2 snow tyres on by the way. If you wish to put 2 on the rear (which i presume is your intention) fine do so. The points about doing a full set just means you will have presumably beter grip on the steering as well as beter traction. Personally it a question of driving, i have had many customers in my garage in the last few weeks with bumps and knocks. They all blame it on the snow. Snow? i ask was the snow driving? . They rightly look at me funny. This is when i explain, its not the snow its the driver who is driving to fast for the conditions not too much snow for driving. The Russians have a saying, its not too cold your just wearing inapropriate clothing for the weather!

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Stani As a tyre fitter myself i wouldnt have sold you 2 snow tyres. I wouldnt sell anyone just 2 snow tyres. Personally i would have talked you out of buying 2 tyres.

I wouldnt have sold you any snow tyres at all. They give better grip in the snow (according to the manufactueres they do) Theres upsides to snow tyres if you believe the hype. Big tyre companies sell you a set of tyres as they make money that way. The fitters themselves make money. I know for a fact, from experiance, if you go into at least 2 of the big country wide tyre fitters for a tyre, or anything else for that matter. If you want one and they talk you into 2 or better still, a set of 4, the fiiter themself gets a cut of the "extra" sales. With the snow in this country (minimal in my area) i dont see an upside of snow tyres at all. If your happy with your set up,good. If people want to buy a set of 4 because they saw it on a web site based in a counrty with loads of snow great let them. One post i saw on this thread, a guy had paid 3 times more for his tyres than he should have and hes still happy good for him. Personal choice if you ask me. I cant see the point. My big 3 tyre suppliers, who supply all the country wide tyre fitters, didnt stock snow tyres at all until this year as no one ever asked for them before. This year they have had loads of orders,they still dont stock them though as they dont see the point in them either. I know some fast fit tyre centres have stock of them as there is a massive mark up on them. We have, on the whole, managed for years without them. Seems to me like its a current fad for the wealthy who can afford 2 sets of tyres. I can afford them still wont go for it though. Drive to the conditons is what i say, if your car understeers or over steers in the snow,your driving too fast for the conditions. As for the scares of you wont stop as good if you dont have snow tyres on the front. ASk yourself a question why would you want to stop quicker then the guy behind you ?? especially if the guy behind hasnt got snow tyres??. Looks like you will still be having a bump to me.

Seems to me with all the members of this site the majority of us manged with out snow tyres i know i have. Oh and puttign snow tyres on your car wont matter to your insurance company they wont be bothered what yres you have on as long as they are legal. I just rang an insurance broker friend of mine they seem to think they dont make enough diffrence to bother about.

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In my opinion you dont need them in thsi country they are a lot of money for a few weeks of the white stuff,

Winter tyres, not snow tyres. Winter tyres are for snow, rain, slush and temperatures below 7deg due to rubber composition.

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Stani As a tyre fitter myself i wouldnt have sold you 2 snow tyres. I wouldnt sell anyone just 2 snow tyres. Personally i would have talked you out of buying 2 tyres.

I wouldnt have sold you any snow tyres at all. They give better grip in the snow (according to the manufactueres they do) Theres upsides to snow tyres if you believe the hype. Big tyre companies sell you a set of tyres as they make money that way. The fitters themselves make money. I know for a fact, from experiance, if you go into at least 2 of the big country wide tyre fitters for a tyre, or anything else for that matter. If you want one and they talk you into 2 or better still, a set of 4, the fiiter themself gets a cut of the "extra" sales. With the snow in this country (minimal in my area) i dont see an upside of snow tyres at all. If your happy with your set up,good. If people want to buy a set of 4 because they saw it on a web site based in a counrty with loads of snow great let them. One post i saw on this thread, a guy had paid 3 times more for his tyres than he should have and hes still happy good for him. Personal choice if you ask me. I cant see the point. My big 3 tyre suppliers, who supply all the country wide tyre fitters, didnt stock snow tyres at all until this year as no one ever asked for them before. This year they have had loads of orders,they still dont stock them though as they dont see the point in them either. I know some fast fit tyre centres have stock of them as there is a massive mark up on them. We have, on the whole, managed for years without them. Seems to me like its a current fad for the wealthy who can afford 2 sets of tyres. I can afford them still wont go for it though. Drive to the conditons is what i say, if your car understeers or over steers in the snow,your driving too fast for the conditions. As for the scares of you wont stop as good if you dont have snow tyres on the front. ASk yourself a question why would you want to stop quicker then the guy behind you ?? especially if the guy behind hasnt got snow tyres??. Looks like you will still be having a bump to me. Seems to me with all the members of this site the majority of us manged with out snow tyres i know i have. Oh and puttign snow tyres on your car wont matter to your insurance company they wont be bothered what yres you have on as long as they are legal. I just rang an insurance broker friend of mine they seem to think they dont make enough diffrence to bother about.

We also managed for years without ABS, TRC, VSC, seatbelts, and MOT's to name but a few. Does that mean that we are not even slightly safer with them? I would have thought that anything which can contribute to road safety would have been welcomed by most sane people. WINTER tyres are proven to be safer in temperatures below 7 deg C (which is around 44 deg F) due to the compounds used.

I would certainly prefer to stop/slow down quicker if a person or car etc suddenly come out in front of me. If the guy behind doesn't have the ability to stop in a similar distance and hits my rear then it will be his insurance paying.

Your insurance broker friend seems very blase about tyres. It is only his OPINION. Insurers can actually refuse a claim if you have tyres with too low speed ratings, too low load rating. Since all insurers are different, even within the same group, what is so difficult about informing them?

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I just rang an insurance broker friend of mine they seem to think they dont make enough diffrence to bother about.

Nice friend to be so helpfdul at gone midnight!

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Stani As a tyre fitter myself i wouldnt have sold you 2 snow tyres. I wouldnt sell anyone just 2 snow tyres. Personally i would have talked you out of buying 2 tyres.

I wouldnt have sold you any snow tyres at all. They give better grip in the snow (according to the manufactueres they do) Theres upsides to snow tyres if you believe the hype. Big tyre companies sell you a set of tyres as they make money that way. The fitters themselves make money. I know for a fact, from experiance, if you go into at least 2 of the big country wide tyre fitters for a tyre, or anything else for that matter. If you want one and they talk you into 2 or better still, a set of 4, the fiiter themself gets a cut of the "extra" sales. With the snow in this country (minimal in my area) i dont see an upside of snow tyres at all. If your happy with your set up,good. If people want to buy a set of 4 because they saw it on a web site based in a counrty with loads of snow great let them. One post i saw on this thread, a guy had paid 3 times more for his tyres than he should have and hes still happy good for him. Personal choice if you ask me. I cant see the point. My big 3 tyre suppliers, who supply all the country wide tyre fitters, didnt stock snow tyres at all until this year as no one ever asked for them before. This year they have had loads of orders,they still dont stock them though as they dont see the point in them either. I know some fast fit tyre centres have stock of them as there is a massive mark up on them. We have, on the whole, managed for years without them. Seems to me like its a current fad for the wealthy who can afford 2 sets of tyres. I can afford them still wont go for it though. Drive to the conditons is what i say, if your car understeers or over steers in the snow,your driving too fast for the conditions. As for the scares of you wont stop as good if you dont have snow tyres on the front. ASk yourself a question why would you want to stop quicker then the guy behind you ?? especially if the guy behind hasnt got snow tyres??. Looks like you will still be having a bump to me.

Seems to me with all the members of this site the majority of us manged with out snow tyres i know i have. Oh and puttign snow tyres on your car wont matter to your insurance company they wont be bothered what yres you have on as long as they are legal. I just rang an insurance broker friend of mine they seem to think they dont make enough diffrence to bother about.

Absolute rubbish.

You clearly have never driven with wintertyres vs summertyres on icey roads or even experienced the difference when you drive through standing water etc.

From your write-up, I even doubt you've ever been near a tyre at all, leave alone are a tyre fitter.

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My opinion people as a driver and mechanic /mot tester of over 20 years. If you people wish to buy them fine. I have got about in the snow for years without them,and so have alot of other people. Snow/ winter tyres, what ever you call them give such little diffrence i cannot justify the cost. Who said "its his insurance if he hits me" thats a bit wrong isnt it. I might just get infront of you one day and stomp on my brakes afterall its your insurance. Not very sensable comment is it really. Its a bit I am ok stuff you.

Well it over 7 degrees today hope you all getting the best from your winter tyres.

As for abs traction control and all the rest of your modern aids i would rather not have them. I still have a car with nothing at all doesnt even have electronic ignition. I dont have a problem gettign abotu in it in this weather.

Simple fact drive to match the weather conditions and you dont winter/snow tyres thats my point. If your happy buying them then so be it wont catch me getting ripped of though. I recently bougth a set of 4 for a customer cost me £84 per tyre. Thats including vat and postage from Sweeden. As mentioned the guy lives down the road from me and i got home,abotu half a mile up hill from where he lives. So my opinion, waste of his money. Like i said if you want to buy them be my guest, if i was allowed to i would even supply them for you!!.

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My opinion people as a driver and mechanic /mot tester of over 20 years. If you people wish to buy them fine. I have got about in the snow for years without them,and so have alot of other people. Snow/ winter tyres, what ever you call them give such little diffrence i cannot justify the cost. Who said "its his insurance if he hits me" thats a bit wrong isnt it. I might just get infront of you one day and stomp on my brakes afterall its your insurance. Not very sensable comment is it really. Its a bit I am ok stuff you.

Well it over 7 degrees today hope you all getting the best from your winter tyres.

As for abs traction control and all the rest of your modern aids i would rather not have them. I still have a car with nothing at all doesnt even have electronic ignition. I dont have a problem gettign abotu in it in this weather.

Simple fact drive to match the weather conditions and you dont winter/snow tyres thats my point. If your happy buying them then so be it wont catch me getting ripped of though. I recently bougth a set of 4 for a customer cost me £84 per tyre. Thats including vat and postage from Sweeden. As mentioned the guy lives down the road from me and i got home,abotu half a mile up hill from where he lives. So my opinion, waste of his money. Like i said if you want to buy them be my guest, if i was allowed to i would even supply them for you!!.

I have got around in all sorts of weather for over 40 years, without the obvious advantage you seem to have as a mechanic/MOT tester, also without the benefit of winter tyres (in UK) mainly because we tend not to get real extremes generally, especially around Coventry fortunately. That does not blind me to the proven advantages that winter tyres have with regards to traction, handling and more importantly stopping distances. My comment about "its his insurance" relates to me managing to avoid a person/vehicle and then being hit from behind and not as you seem to think just "stomping on my brakes" for no reason. Since you would prefer to not have the "modern aids" does that also mean that you think they are pointless?

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My opinion people as a driver and mechanic /mot tester of over 20 years. If you people wish to buy them fine. I have got about in the snow for years without them,and so have alot of other people. Snow/ winter tyres, what ever you call them give such little diffrence i cannot justify the cost. Who said "its his insurance if he hits me" thats a bit wrong isnt it. I might just get infront of you one day and stomp on my brakes afterall its your insurance. Not very sensable comment is it really. Its a bit I am ok stuff you.

Well it over 7 degrees today hope you all getting the best from your winter tyres.

As for abs traction control and all the rest of your modern aids i would rather not have them. I still have a car with nothing at all doesnt even have electronic ignition. I dont have a problem gettign abotu in it in this weather.

Simple fact drive to match the weather conditions and you dont winter/snow tyres thats my point. If your happy buying them then so be it wont catch me getting ripped of though. I recently bougth a set of 4 for a customer cost me £84 per tyre. Thats including vat and postage from Sweeden. As mentioned the guy lives down the road from me and i got home,abotu half a mile up hill from where he lives. So my opinion, waste of his money. Like i said if you want to buy them be my guest, if i was allowed to i would even supply them for you!!.

I have got around in all sorts of weather for over 40 years, without the obvious advantage you seem to have as a mechanic/MOT tester, also without the benefit of winter tyres (in UK) mainly because we tend not to get real extremes generally, especially around Coventry fortunately. That does not blind me to the proven advantages that winter tyres have with regards to traction, handling and more importantly stopping distances. My comment about "its his insurance" relates to me managing to avoid a person/vehicle and then being hit from behind and not as you seem to think just "stomping on my brakes" for no reason. Since you would prefer to not have the "modern aids" does that also mean that you think they are pointless?

No pretty certain i have said if you want to buy snow/winter tyres be my guest. Personally i dont see the benifit not in this country. I think theres been 3/4 weeks where the benifit would have been worth while having them. (below 7 degrees is the quoted figure) And no i dont have a problem with modern aids, do i turn of my traction control ? yes. have i driven with the fuse out of my abs system? yes. I still feel that a driver should be able to handle his/her car with out the modern aids. So why not for once in a while turn them off. I know some countries where i believe they, as part of the driving test, include driving on a skid pan with out any driver aids. I know it seems that the older drivers have a better understanding of driving control than the younger people. I dont have any problem with driver aids but if people understood driving with out them then they would be better drivers than waiting for the driver aids to work.

Have you ever been braking quite hard and seen a grid realising that you may skid on the grid lifted of the brake slightly?. This is what i am getting at. See the road see the problem and drive the car acordingly,dont wait or rely on driver aids. Yes great now we have them but properly taught drivers shouldnt need them. Not once in the recent snow did i use my abs didnt kick in . Ok my traction did alot but only when starting to move away on the hill where i live. Some times i turned the traction control off and just used my foot and ears sometimes it can be too intrusive.

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No pretty certain i have said if you want to buy snow/winter tyres be my guest. Personally i dont see the benifit not in this country.

I have been driving 20 years and last January and December I could not call upon my years of experience to get my 245bhp rear wheel drive car to move from my slightly inclined driveway. I tried TRC off/on, snow mode off/on, manual mode, full auto etc. The car would go back and forward but would not turn with the wheel. I am sure that maybe a driver with a few years of driving in snow may have made better progress but that driver would have been still slipping and taking a long time to get anywhere putting him and other road/path users in danger.

Now, due to me ditching the car for 2 weeks my battery died leaving me with a £100 recovery cost, AA wouldn't come to me due to it being a non emergency. So should I carry on like this or invest in some winter tyres. I looked on you tube and the evidence for fitting these type of tyres far out weighs negative comments on here. It seems negative comments come from people who have never used them so I can't see how you can defend not using them.

I have had the winter tyres fitted and they are excellent. I can now use my car and it drives on snow with no difficulties. It ploughed through standing water on the M1 the other day with no hint of the car losing grip.

No one can argue against the benefits of fitting winter tyres, to do so is nonsense.

Winter tyres, safe for me, safe for everyone. Try them before giving out bad advice.

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Now, due to me ditching the car for 2 weeks my battery died leaving me with a £100 recovery cost, AA wouldn't come to me due to it being a non emergency. So should I carry on like this or invest in some winter tyres.

I don't understand why the AA would not attend, assuming that you are a member.

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It seems many people have very short memories here.

When there was snow in the winters in the mid 80's, the 90's and the last two years, people DID NOT manage with their cars. The whole fcuking country (pardon my English) came to a standstill because of 2 inches of snow.

Why do you think snow does not affect traffic in places like Scandinavia, Switzerland or Czech Republic? They do not clear it any better than here, in contrary, they even leave always some of it on the roads and count with the fact the cars are equipped for it.

Our wise man here can cope without ABS, traction control, VSC, etc as he did in the 1970's and 1980's?

Sure he can! But if I remember well, my father's "powerfull" Mercedes 300D had 88bhp in 1983 and a whopping 117lbft of torque. Nowadays his diesel has more than 3 times as much power with a chassis that filters all the reactions much more, making it impossible to feel when it will go wrong.

Even your average family car (which nowadays obviously has to be a BMW 320d (or a Lexus IS deisel)) comes with twice the power and 3 times as much torque as a powerful car 25 years ago. A two liter diesel has as much power and twice the torque of a 1987 BMW 528i, a car with a reputation of being a widowmaker.

Fortunately, in those days only very few people drove such cars and they were often chosen by those who really knew how to drive them... and even they would only carefully use the performance.

I assume we forgot the days when the Monday paper always contained a 3 page section with all the deadly accidents of the weekend. In my native Belgium, 2 of the pages were dedicated to BMW and Golf GTi drivers.

Nowadays Mr and Mrs Average Britain all have 150bhp and 250lbft under their right foot and they go everywhere flatout with it. Imagine the Monday papers in the 80's if all of us had been driving BMW 325's, 528's or Alfa 75 V6's ! :blink:

And I am not even starting on the fact that the chassis and tyres of the current cars are set up in such a way (thanks to all our contradicting requirements: performance & comfort & low fuel consumption) that you cannot feel anymore what the car will do. It's "on the road" or "game over" !

Good luck driving in roads that become busier all the time without your ABS, VSC, etc.

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Dear Mr. Expert Tyre Fitter,

There's a guy who works in my local off-license. He's happy to give "expert" advice to people who come in and sell them as much wine and champagne as they like.

Fact is, he knows jack sh*t about wine, has no formal training and has never even tasted Dom Perignon. Just because you sell something does not automatically make you an authority on it.

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Dear Mr. Expert Tyre Fitter,

There's a guy who works in my local off-license. He's happy to give "expert" advice to people who come in and sell them as much wine and champagne as they like.

Fact is, he knows jack sh*t about wine, has no formal training and has never even tasted Dom Perignon. Just because you sell something does not automatically make you an authority on it.

Nonono, Ben, sure you're wrong there.

I've been driving my 1.7 miles to work every day in my Ford Fiest Van. It took me 40 mins and I was sliding all over the place at 12mph, but hey, that proves I don't need VSC, ABS, etc.

All those trafficjams, mayhem and accidents you see on TV when it snows are actually recreated in studio as propagada for the tyre lobby.

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Ok so i am not expert. I have been working in the motor trade since leaving school 22 years ago. I have worked at independant garages and main dealers. The majority of my friends all work in the motor trade. I Have been with my current employer for 20 years i am an mot tester (I.D number LILL0021 if you wish to check) I service and repair everything from Reliant Robins to 360 ferrari. I can provide pictures if you like. I have customers (one family actually) who own a Ferrari 360 a prosche 911 Porsche panamera Aston v12 Bently continental. I can provide pictures if you wish all either in my car park on on a ramp in my workshop. Non not a one is fitted with winter tyres. All on my advice. NOt a one has crash in the snow. Now i have had customers in during the snow who have crashed. Audi A3, S3 actually the 4 wheel drive one binned it on a bend. He excepts it was his fault driving to fast in the conditions. Punto crashed in the snow, driving too fast for the conditions. In fact every car i have repaired or had repaired this winter has been crashed due to driving too fast for the conditions.

How many people on this site have snow tyres how many have crashed. ONCE AGAIN if you wish to buy snow tyres do so i personally dont see the point i didnt say i didnt see the advantage . Once again i will say that one just one customer of mine has snow tyres fitted after i had to get them imported as my tyre supliers dont stock them as they dont see the point either, the one guy i did get them for lives down hill from me i have to drive up hill past his house to get home. I manage not with out some slipping i must admit but i managed,So in that experiance alone he doesnt need his snow tyres as i got to his house with out them.

So in my opinion (and i will change this to suit you all) in my opinion I dont need them. LIke i said if you need them feel free to buy them i wont be. And as 3 of the biggest tyre suppliers i know dont provide them then alot of other people wont use them either.

AS for the point about other countries being equiped for the snow, have you considered my other point that some countries have a skid pan test included in their driving test so these drivers are prepared for drivign in the snow. WE get snow for 3/4 week out of 52, most people dont know how to drive in snow as they never had to. My aprentice at work for one, thinks power is the solution just more and more revs.In my time i have spent many hours driving mk1 and mk2 escorts and such like rallying i know how to control a slide should one occur i even as a youngster (illegally i might add) spend time thrashing the nuts of what ever car i owned at the time in supermarket carparks after closing time. I used to slide skid spin what ever it was i had. I learnt what a car does i understand under steer i know about over steer. Infact i spent more time sideways and backwards than in a straight line. Most people these days dont even know if their car is front or rear wheel drive and as such have no idea how to handle a car in the event of a skid. I have had customers in work in the last 3 weeks saying their car was banging and thumping and wouldnt stop their brakes didnt work they tell me. Did any lights onthe dash board flash i ask. ye the yellow one comes the reply. Oh so your abs kicked in as you were skidding. No i didnt skid. well i am afraid you did. These are the people that dont know how to drive they dont even know how a car work!. not even the basic stuff.

So people dont make personal attacks on my experiance you have no idea who i am or where i am from or what experiance i have had in life.

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Ok so i am not expert. I have been working in the motor trade since leaving school 22 years ago. I have worked at independant garages and main dealers. The majority of my friends all work in the motor trade. I Have been with my current employer for 20 years i am an mot tester (I.D number LILL0021 if you wish to check) I service and repair everything from Reliant Robins to 360 ferrari. I can provide pictures if you like. I have customers (one family actually) who own a Ferrari 360 a prosche 911 Porsche panamera Aston v12 Bently continental. I can provide pictures if you wish all either in my car park on on a ramp in my workshop. Non not a one is fitted with winter tyres. All on my advice. NOt a one has crash in the snow. Now i have had customers in during the snow who have crashed. Audi A3, S3 actually the 4 wheel drive one binned it on a bend. He excepts it was his fault driving to fast in the conditions. Punto crashed in the snow, driving too fast for the conditions. In fact every car i have repaired or had repaired this winter has been crashed due to driving too fast for the conditions.

How many people on this site have snow tyres how many have crashed. ONCE AGAIN if you wish to buy snow tyres do so i personally dont see the point i didnt say i didnt see the advantage . Once again i will say that one just one customer of mine has snow tyres fitted after i had to get them imported as my tyre supliers dont stock them as they dont see the point either, the one guy i did get them for lives down hill from me i have to drive up hill past his house to get home. I manage not with out some slipping i must admit but i managed,So in that experiance alone he doesnt need his snow tyres as i got to his house with out them.

So in my opinion (and i will change this to suit you all) in my opinion I dont need them. LIke i said if you need them feel free to buy them i wont be. And as 3 of the biggest tyre suppliers i know dont provide them then alot of other people wont use them either.

AS for the point about other countries being equiped for the snow, have you considered my other point that some countries have a skid pan test included in their driving test so these drivers are prepared for drivign in the snow. WE get snow for 3/4 week out of 52, most people dont know how to drive in snow as they never had to. My aprentice at work for one, thinks power is the solution just more and more revs.In my time i have spent many hours driving mk1 and mk2 escorts and such like rallying i know how to control a slide should one occur i even as a youngster (illegally i might add) spend time thrashing the nuts of what ever car i owned at the time in supermarket carparks after closing time. I used to slide skid spin what ever it was i had. I learnt what a car does i understand under steer i know about over steer. Infact i spent more time sideways and backwards than in a straight line. Most people these days dont even know if their car is front or rear wheel drive and as such have no idea how to handle a car in the event of a skid. I have had customers in work in the last 3 weeks saying their car was banging and thumping and wouldnt stop their brakes didnt work they tell me. Did any lights onthe dash board flash i ask. ye the yellow one comes the reply. Oh so your abs kicked in as you were skidding. No i didnt skid. well i am afraid you did. These are the people that dont know how to drive they dont even know how a car work!. not even the basic stuff.

So people dont make personal attacks on my experiance you have no idea who i am or where i am from or what experiance i have had in life.

fil, please do not take this wrong or as a personal attack but this last post does seem contradictory.

You say that you have been in the trade for 22 years working for both independent garages and main dealers but have worked for your current employer for 20 years? That seems to indicate that your time with these various other traders spanned only 2 years. You have said that it is your own business but you have worked for your current boss for 20 years? You work for someone but have also stated that YOUR tyre suppliers dont stock them. I also wonder how many of your customers who crashed might not have done with winter tyres fitted....impossible to tell either way really. The fact that you, as you continually stress, are a tester and the fact that you have worked on a variety of cars does not really make you competent to dismiss the fact that winter tyres perform better than summer tyres at low temps. Both the compounds and tread patterns are designed and tested for use in low temps and snow/slush/ice/standing water. I can understand your point about the short period that we suffer from snow but you still seem to just consider them as "snow tyres" when in fact they are WINTER tyres, as the title of the thread says.

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Some very interesting opinions developing in this thread:)

I've driven mostly rear wheel drive cars for many years, a mix of manual and automatic, and ranging from less than a litre to 5.7 litres. I've driven cars before the driver aids came out and with all the abbreviations under the sun. I've also driven four wheel drive and now own a front wheel drive. Over the years when the snow has fallen the roads have been more and more challenging. The main problems being pulling away, steering, braking and then tackling inclines both up and down. I have never got stuck apart from trying to get up to my road and up my drive. I have been stuck behind others, I have drifted when cornering and I have slid when braking. The worst of my cars in the snow were the IS200 and the IS250 automatic, I believe because the driver aids caused problems in the snow. The front wheel drive car I have now has been an eye opener, the only time it has had a problem was getting up my drive and as I bought a pair of snow socks I put these on and tried and successfully got up on compacted snow which no car has been able to in the past apart from the 4x4.

Now winter tyres. I haven't tried them but I have tried to get some steel wheels and winter tyres this year ( yes for a front wheel drive ) but failed at a reasonable price. The reason is that IMHO they would make the driving safer and I would be able to get up my drive. Stopping, pulling away, steering, braking and going up hills is important to me.

I'm not an expert, but am an experienced driver in all road conditions in England. I'm not a mechanic and I haven't driven in the Alps but one thing I know is that four winter tyres is going to make a car do what it's meant to do better.Not faster that doesn't matter. You drive to the conditions and, yes, in snow whatever car you have and whatever tyres you have you drive to suit those conditions. I don't care who you are by saying that winter tyres will not improve the safety and the likelihood of an accident shows you don't really know what you are talking about.

For others to say fitting two winter tyres is OK just shows people don't understand, don't listen to advice, don't care and don't understand the laws of physics or the electronic systems on today's cars.

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Ok so i am not expert. I have been working in the motor trade since leaving school 22 years ago. I have worked at independant garages and main dealers. The majority of my friends all work in the motor trade. I Have been with my current employer for 20 years i am an mot tester (I.D number LILL0021 if you wish to check) I service and repair everything from Reliant Robins to 360 ferrari. I can provide pictures if you like. I have customers (one family actually) who own a Ferrari 360 a prosche 911 Porsche panamera Aston v12 Bently continental. I can provide pictures if you wish all either in my car park on on a ramp in my workshop. Non not a one is fitted with winter tyres. All on my advice. NOt a one has crash in the snow. Now i have had customers in during the snow who have crashed. Audi A3, S3 actually the 4 wheel drive one binned it on a bend. He excepts it was his fault driving to fast in the conditions. Punto crashed in the snow, driving too fast for the conditions. In fact every car i have repaired or had repaired this winter has been crashed due to driving too fast for the conditions.

How many people on this site have snow tyres how many have crashed. ONCE AGAIN if you wish to buy snow tyres do so i personally dont see the point i didnt say i didnt see the advantage . Once again i will say that one just one customer of mine has snow tyres fitted after i had to get them imported as my tyre supliers dont stock them as they dont see the point either, the one guy i did get them for lives down hill from me i have to drive up hill past his house to get home. I manage not with out some slipping i must admit but i managed,So in that experiance alone he doesnt need his snow tyres as i got to his house with out them.

So in my opinion (and i will change this to suit you all) in my opinion I dont need them. LIke i said if you need them feel free to buy them i wont be. And as 3 of the biggest tyre suppliers i know dont provide them then alot of other people wont use them either.

AS for the point about other countries being equiped for the snow, have you considered my other point that some countries have a skid pan test included in their driving test so these drivers are prepared for drivign in the snow. WE get snow for 3/4 week out of 52, most people dont know how to drive in snow as they never had to. My aprentice at work for one, thinks power is the solution just more and more revs.In my time i have spent many hours driving mk1 and mk2 escorts and such like rallying i know how to control a slide should one occur i even as a youngster (illegally i might add) spend time thrashing the nuts of what ever car i owned at the time in supermarket carparks after closing time. I used to slide skid spin what ever it was i had. I learnt what a car does i understand under steer i know about over steer. Infact i spent more time sideways and backwards than in a straight line. Most people these days dont even know if their car is front or rear wheel drive and as such have no idea how to handle a car in the event of a skid. I have had customers in work in the last 3 weeks saying their car was banging and thumping and wouldnt stop their brakes didnt work they tell me. Did any lights onthe dash board flash i ask. ye the yellow one comes the reply. Oh so your abs kicked in as you were skidding. No i didnt skid. well i am afraid you did. These are the people that dont know how to drive they dont even know how a car work!. not even the basic stuff.

So people dont make personal attacks on my experiance you have no idea who i am or where i am from or what experiance i have had in life.

fil, please do not take this wrong or as a personal attack but this last post does seem contradictory.

You say that you have been in the trade for 22 years working for both independent garages and main dealers but have worked for your current employer for 20 years? That seems to indicate that your time with these various other traders spanned only 2 years. You have said that it is your own business but you have worked for your current boss for 20 years? You work for someone but have also stated that YOUR tyre suppliers dont stock them. I also wonder how many of your customers who crashed might not have done with winter tyres fitted....impossible to tell either way really. The fact that you, as you continually stress, are a tester and the fact that you have worked on a variety of cars does not really make you competent to dismiss the fact that winter tyres perform better than summer tyres at low temps. Both the compounds and tread patterns are designed and tested for use in low temps and snow/slush/ice/standing water. I can understand your point about the short period that we suffer from snow but you still seem to just consider them as "snow tyres" when in fact they are WINTER tyres, as the title of the thread says.

My supliers, as its me that rings up and me that fits the tyres its me that produces the bill for the customer. Its me that deals with the customer. After 20 years of dealing same supliers and customers, its gets a little personal dont you think. They are not my bosses customers either they are the cumpany customers the company supliers at the end of the day, but as i said after20 years its gets a little personal.

Yes 2 years working for "other garags.I spent 6 months working for Ford franchise dealer before i left due to standard of work which i knew was wrong and chose not to start my carrer in that way. I worked for Peugeot for a while left there for simular reasons i then bounced around from various independant garages moving around for variaty of reason, not happy with staff , working conditions or working practices(bearing in mind the stories about garages most of which i can confirm are true of some garages). I also have my own bussiness (large lock up really) from which i do my own work and buy and sell cars from. You know work out of hours. I do it in my own unit as to me its un professional to work on peoples drive way at the weekend and i didnt buy my own ramp and unit to work in the rain. So yes i do also have my own bussiness. What ever garage i have worked for or what day of the weekend i have worked for my self i have suplied and fitted tyres so i am experianced with tyres. Also when leaving scholl and starting my carrer I spent 5 years at collage sitting exam and course one ofter the other. 3 years is standard collage course for my trade. I did an extra 2. I know keep up to date with most stuff on cars with courses as the trade changes so much you have to keep up or get left behind.

After being in the motor trade for so long and moving around in early year you get to know other people in the trade.I have contacts in the motor trade that work for various Main dealers and regulaly speak to them and ask for advice as they do to me. Its a little strange but in this day and age we,the garages in our area do comunicate to each other. With the cost of diagnostic equipment we, the local garages share information and equipment and knowlegde. If some one has doen some course they tell you then you can draw on their knowledge and not spend money doing the course yourself. Theres one rule, you dont pinch each others customers. So basicly i have a wealth of my own knowledge and can draw on knowledge of others and know one i know is recomending snow winter or any other kind of special tyres for the winter. Also i dont recall saying they were a waste of time and didnt dismiss the fact that winter/snow tyres are better. I may have said they were a waste of time for me as didnt see the point in them as dont need them.

Bottom line they are a modification. We must agree on that.Lexus designed the car with a certain tyre in mind to do an all round job so if you and who ever decide that you want diffrent then thats a modification. Now i have nothing against a modification, just i cant justify the cost to get improvement for such a short period of time. There was talk of 3/400 pound for tyres for 3/4 weeks a year?? One hundred pounds a week to get your car of the drive, I would rather get a taxi. Thats why i am persoanlly against them, i also know my customers the garages customers if you wish to be technical, i know how they drive, how often they drive, where they drive. I know what mileage they cover in a year i even know where most of them fill up with petrol i know my/the garages customers. I couldnt justifiy selling them special tyres either. I have started to call them special tyres so theres no mix up between winter/snow tyres. ANythign other than standard i mean.

Theres some of my/the garages customers wont collect there car after dark as they wont drive so i know they wont drive in the snow. MY opinion and the opinion of all my friends and fellow workers in the motor trade the cost doesnt justify the benifits. This is why i dont rate special tyres for winter that and the fact my suppliers dont carry them. Infact afterdays of looking on the net himself for tyres,the customer that wanted them found one supplier in the uk that had them in stock in the size he wanted.

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Now, due to me ditching the car for 2 weeks my battery died leaving me with a £100 recovery cost, AA wouldn't come to me due to it being a non emergency. So should I carry on like this or invest in some winter tyres.

I don't understand why the AA would not attend, assuming that you are a member.

Apparently they were so busy that they were only attending to people in desperate need, I suppose breakdowns on motorways etc. My car was outside my house so wasn't an emergency.

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[so people dont make personal attacks on my experiance you have no idea who i am or where i am from or what experiance i have had in life.

...

Theres some of my/the garages customers wont collect there car after dark as they wont drive so i know they wont drive in the snow. MY opinion and the opinion of all my friends and fellow workers in the motor trade the cost doesnt justify the benifits. This is why i dont rate special tyres for winter that and the fact my suppliers dont carry them. Infact afterdays of looking on the net himself for tyres,the customer that wanted them found one supplier in the uk that had them in stock in the size he wanted.

Let's make some points very clear here:

1) You don't appear to even understand what a winter tyre is. You constantly go on about driving on snow but this isn't the primary function of winter tyres. Others have corrected you, but you choose to ignore this.

2) You don't appear to have ever driving on a winter tyre. If you haven't done this, how can you ever make out that you have expert opinion?

3) You don't represent the motor trade or its opinion at all, at most just a few blokes you work with. If you look at the motor trade as a whole, you'll see a very different picture. BMW, Audi, Lexus etc. are all offering winter tyre programmes right now as they feel they offer a genuine benefit to their customers. Organisations like the SMMT, the AA and the RAC all recommend them. You may work in the motor trade, and have your own opinions, but they certainly are not the opinions of any motor trade organisations.

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Let's make some points very clear here:

1) You don't appear to even understand what a winter tyre is. You constantly go on about driving on snow but this isn't the primary function of winter tyres. Others have corrected you, but you choose to ignore this.

2) You don't appear to have ever driving on a winter tyre. If you haven't done this, how can you ever make out that you have expert opinion?

3) You don't represent the motor trade or its opinion at all, at most just a few blokes you work with. If you look at the motor trade as a whole, you'll see a very different picture. BMW, Audi, Lexus etc. are all offering winter tyre programmes right now as they feel they offer a genuine benefit to their customers. Organisations like the SMMT, the AA and the RAC all recommend them. You may work in the motor trade, and have your own opinions, but they certainly are not the opinions of any motor trade organisations.

Class !! :lol:

I just cannot understand people who keep giving an opinion about stuff they never tried or cars they've never driven.

You pull up with a Merc AMG and there always needs to be a tw@t who comments that he prefers the BMW M or Audi RS equivalent. Ask him if he's ever driven the AMG and the Beemer and the answers always is "off course not, but..." ... :rolleyes: "But, but,... if you don't know what you're talking about, keep your comments to yourself, wisearse." (EoR)

I personally think winter tyres should be made compulsory, just like in Germany, and this purely based on their qualities on wet roads.

The UK roads are simply bad and very poorly lit. If you often drive at night, the risk of hitting standing water is really high and the difference it makes to hitting this on summer or on winter tyres is incredible. On summerrubber, you virtually always feel the car being pulled to one side to the other and you're lucky when you're not skating. On winter rubber, you often hardly feel it.

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