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Fog Lamps When It's Not Foggy

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Before i start my rant in reply i dont use my front fog lights at all never have done. drive to road conditions,including vision and you dont need them.

I assume you've never driven at night in dense fog then.... By dense fog i mean visibility of around 5-10 yards or so and not the kind of stuff we've had this last week.

Anyway i have done and have actually had to use them as designed... sidelights and foglights only... and wasn't the only person on those occasions to be doing so either. Mind you we were all doing about 30mph max on the M18 at around midnight so that probably tells you how foggy it was. :winky:

Still doing 30 mph in the fog !! doesnt seem that foggy to me if you can do 30 mph. A road i am sure you know The snake pass?. i have been over the snake pass when its been so foggy i could see one cats eye infront of me and that was it. In the odd place were the cats eye was missing, it was guess work which way to go. I was driving about 10 mph So yes i have driven in the fog. That was about 3 years ago. I have only owned my Lexus 18 months or so. Before that i had an old c class merc the fog lights were in the head lights and were useless in that fog. I litrally had my head lights on and followed the cats eyes i could see through the fog and i drove down the middle of the road as i didnt fancy going over the edge when the odd cats eye was missing .

Cheers

Dave.

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as i live in sweden we must have our light on all day and night no matter what the weather is. and againg your not aloud to have your fogs on unless it's foggy but are aloud drl lights on. so my answer was this. to custom my fogs to do both jobs. first i fitted lenses to the fogs and put hid 8000 in there.

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then i fitted halo rings in the front and this was the output for drl in the day

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now i personally think that looks very good with the halos there. i havent seen that done before. :)

i dont think its the position of the lights people disagree with, its just that people think foglights should only be on in fog and are very set about their ways.

but if you were to do what you've done, or replace them with something else completely, because they are not technically foglights anymore people dont seem to mind.

like if i were to put a strip of LED's under my foglights, no one would care even though they are in the 'foglight position' purely because the actual foglights wouldnt be on.

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No i pretty sure technically any light under the mid height of the bumper is classed as a fog light. What shape or how bright the bulb is doesnt matter. Although there is always and exception to every rule. To me what you have done is change the bulb in your fog light there still fog lights. They dont appear to be to bright so like sprinter says most people wont mind, think you might have a problem with the police though Just like me i would still see them as fog lights

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i think what he has done is ADD the halo to the foglight unit, so it comes on with the sidelight. but still has the original foglights functioning as normal.

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The regulations are very clear on this matter. The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 No 1796 Pt 111 Reg 27 applies as follows and states quite clearly that the use of front foglamps prohibited if they are:

(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.

(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.

©Used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.

The regulations regarding rear fogs are similar. In my opinion the police should be somewhat stricter on these points....the number of drivers with rear fogs illuminated in rain is alarming, the dazzle caused in rain is terrible.

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well mine are on all the time as drl the same as my halo rings on the main lights. i also have hid fogs behind there so if the police say i'm running my fogs i can say no and turn the fogs on to prove it. also the fact i put a lense in there to aim the hids to down so there is no way they can dazzle. i hear all the people who think it's dumb to drive with fogs on and i agree with them thats why i did the halo rings and it passed the mot and the swedish mot is harder than the uk one for sure

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I was under the impression that DRL's were the strip of LED's that i'm seeing more and more on newer cars, and front fogs are the 2 lights low down on the bumpers of cars (albeit not all cars)

a simple statement above, yes, but whats with new cars having steering lights (i don't know the official name)?? but i've seen cars now that when they turn the wheel, the corresponding fog light on the bumper comes on, seems to be anythin German, now I think these only come on if the side/headlights are on, but since its still a fog light, will the regulations change? or are these bulbs dual filament so its not actually the foglight that is on in the lens when the vehicle is turning?

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i think technology has been around for a while that actually turns the dipped beam slighty with the steering. im not sure if thats what 'adaptive lighting' is?

but im starting to see more cars adding DRLs in the 'fog light area', mainly newer mercedes and porches like the ones below

daytime-running-lights.jpg

TechArt-2010-Porsche-911-Turbo-1%5B1%5D.jpg

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"What next headlights modded to hids illegal?" well now you mention it.... you will actually fail an MOT as of Jan 2012 if you have aftermarket HIDs fitted. :(

although there may be certain exceptions with the IS200 which Ormi noted because it has both headlight washers and headlamp levelling fitted. who knows though.

No offense to anyone but I do find fog lights (especially the rear ones) dazzling (when used in the absence of fog) and annoying and what comes to mind when encountering one of these gentlemen/ladies is: must have fog on the brain...

The fact that they are illegal - given the refusal to follow the much more important rules/laws (such as stopping at red lights - I have personally been saved from many accidents by waiting a little, before proceeding, when the lights turn green which allowed those unwilling to be bothered to stop at red lights to run the red lights without having to face the consequences...) I would hardly expect these people to be worried by such trifles! As for the DRLs - these were made mandatory in North America (US & Canada) but discontinued after just a few years - did they learn, through experience, something that the EU has yet to discover?

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but whats with new cars having steering lights (i don't know the official name)?? but i've seen cars now that when they turn the wheel, the corresponding fog light on the bumper comes on, seems to be anythin German, now I think these only come on if the side/headlights are on, but since its still a fog light, will the regulations change? or are these bulbs dual filament so its not actually the foglight that is on in the lens when the vehicle is turning?

These are turn lights I think. My Soarer had them, came on with lights + indicator. Completely different beam pattern to fogs. Almost useless too.

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just about the hid bit....it is in the vosa mot mag that came through my work door about the hid's being made a test fail in 2012 also chipped cars will fail but as i have said this isnt possible its just some doughnut sitting in a big chair making stuff up!!!how can we tell if a cars chipped also if the hids are fitted properly you wont be able to tell(well you will you just wont be able to see the box and if you cant see it you cant fail it)???also some of the first hid factory fitted hid cars didnt come fitted with projectors or self leveling lights.....

me myself i see NO problem with the hid kits that have been fitted and propperly alighned i have had mine fitted for over two years and had no problems and im running 10ks!!and no i dont mot my own car!!

also the crap about failing due to bulb colour is crap too we cant fail you for running a 10k bulb because we cant fail it unless we use a spectrum meter to tell us the colour same goes for when the police stop you they say its blue you say its white the only way of telling is use of a spectrum meter!!

to all who want hids fit them then take them to be alighned at a mot station!!itll save you lots of greef

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Law, it is a points and a fine job on fog and spot lights using them when not needed, fog lights can only be used in fog or falling snow, spot lights can only be used with main beem

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Before i start my rant in reply i dont use my front fog lights at all never have done. drive to road conditions,including vision and you dont need them.

I assume you've never driven at night in dense fog then.... By dense fog i mean visibility of around 5-10 yards or so and not the kind of stuff we've had this last week.

Anyway i have done and have actually had to use them as designed... sidelights and foglights only... and wasn't the only person on those occasions to be doing so either. Mind you we were all doing about 30mph max on the M18 at around midnight so that probably tells you how foggy it was. :winky:

Still doing 30 mph in the fog !! doesnt seem that foggy to me if you can do 30 mph. A road i am sure you know The snake pass?. i have been over the snake pass when its been so foggy i could see one cats eye infront of me and that was it. In the odd place were the cats eye was missing, it was guess work which way to go. I was driving about 10 mph So yes i have driven in the fog. That was about 3 years ago. I have only owned my Lexus 18 months or so. Before that i had an old c class merc the fog lights were in the head lights and were useless in that fog. I litrally had my head lights on and followed the cats eyes i could see through the fog and i drove down the middle of the road as i didnt fancy going over the edge when the odd cats eye was missing .

Cheers

Dave.

As my post stated it was 30mph tops on the M18 motorway in fact an approx 5 mile long dead straight section, nothing to do with the Snake or Woodhead for that matter. :winky:

The light from the xenons i had on that car was being reflected back reducing the already 10 yards max visibility down to nearer 5 yards as soon as i went to sidelights and fogs visibilty was back up to around 10 yards.

Cheers

Dave.

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No i pretty sure technically any light under the mid height of the bumper is classed as a fog light. What shape or how bright the bulb is doesnt matter. Although there is always and exception to every rule. To me what you have done is change the bulb in your fog light there still fog lights. They dont appear to be to bright so like sprinter says most people wont mind, think you might have a problem with the police though Just like me i would still see them as fog lights

I was under the impression that DRL's were the strip of LED's that i'm seeing more and more on newer cars, and front fogs are the 2 lights low down on the bumpers of cars (albeit not all cars)

a simple statement above, yes, but whats with new cars having steering lights (i don't know the official name)?? but i've seen cars now that when they turn the wheel, the corresponding fog light on the bumper comes on, seems to be anythin German, now I think these only come on if the side/headlights are on, but since its still a fog light, will the regulations change? or are these bulbs dual filament so its not actually the foglight that is on in the lens when the vehicle is turning?

Just for reference regarding Foglights and DRL's being seperate things..... Attached below is the current Fabia vRS.... 4xSMD/LED's per foglight/DRL. :winky:

I'm a member on the Skoda owners site Briskoda and there's already a thread asking if owners of the new vRS have been stopped by the coppers for having what looks like their front fogs on all the time.

Also with regard the DRL's being the strips of LED's.... Not necessarily the case as per THIS POST of mine in a thread on here about DRL's. :winky:

skoda_fabia_vrs_made_of_meaner_stuff_01.jpg

Cheers

Dave.

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I think the arguement over what is a drl and what is a fog light will just come down to what the manufacturer says it is.

As drl are becoming law, and to keep costs down, i think alot of manufacturers will simply reduce the watage in fog lights and wire them perminant ignition live as in the picture of the skoda above and call them drl.

If the owners manual says they are drl then thats what they are. I bet not one single copper will take it to court to prove other wise. The Skoda above, does it have front fog lights?? i wonder because what ever it is thats turned on now sure looks like a fog light to me.

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i think technology has been around for a while that actually turns the dipped beam slighty with the steering. im not sure if thats what 'adaptive lighting' is?

From memory that was first intoduced in the 1950s on the Citroen DS..

The whole idea is a nice way to introduce more poinless gubbins that doesn't really work very well but will break costing an arm and a leg to repair... Chances are the repair will be mandatory as it may well fail the MOT... They got you by the short hairs..

Has anyone actually bothered to notice just how totally and utterly useless front fog lights are, giving you no advantage whatsoever while the rear ones just irritate as most folk switch them on in mild mist when you can see their normal sidelights from quarter of a mile away... They also love to use them in rain too thus generating a fog of red light. The contribute to safety not one bit..... Well OK they do assist in identifying braindead gimps.. Used to have DRLs on my Transporter T4 and they were good for making the van more visible in failing light or mist when most folk would only use their side lights, which were inadequate

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Has anyone actually bothered to notice just how totally and utterly useless front fog lights are, giving you no advantage whatsoever while the rear ones just irritate as most folk switch them on in mild mist when you can see their normal sidelights from quarter of a mile away... They also love to use them in rain too thus generating a fog of red light.

My thoughts exactly, I've never found fog lights to be useful even in very dense fog. And rear fog lights are my worst enemy, slight bit of rain and everyone decides its time to blind the car behind. Having the IS is good though, nice bright twin fog lights to switch on and then drive infront of them for a while...

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Has anyone actually bothered to notice just how totally and utterly useless front fog lights are, giving you no advantage whatsoever while the rear ones just irritate as most folk switch them on in mild mist when you can see their normal sidelights from quarter of a mile away... They also love to use them in rain too thus generating a fog of red light.

My thoughts exactly, I've never found fog lights to be useful even in very dense fog. And rear fog lights are my worst enemy, slight bit of rain and everyone decides its time to blind the car behind. Having the IS is good though, nice bright twin fog lights to switch on and then drive infront of them for a while...

" more people that agree with me that fog lights are useless and therefore cant really dazzle anyone. Again, a properly adjusted front fog light doesnt dazzle. So really only botheres people who choose to be bothered by them. So why does the law choose to make them illegal?. Once again i add that i dont use mine as i also agree there useless.

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No i pretty sure technically any light under the mid height of the bumper is classed as a fog light. What shape or how

bright the bulb is doesnt matter. Although there is always and exception to every rule. To me what you have done is change the bulb in your fog light there still fog lights. They dont appear to be to bright so like sprinter says most people wont mind, think you might have a problem with the police though Just like me i would still see them as fog lights

There is nothing laid down about the size of the light, the intensity or the wattage. There should be no more than two and should be no more than 1200mm from the ground. If used instead of dipped beam in poor visibility they should be 400mm from the outside edge of the car. They must display as white or yellow to the front and.. "so aimed that the upper edge of the beam is, as near as practicable, 3 per cent below the horizontal when the vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of 75 kg on the drivers seat."

more here

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No i pretty sure technically any light under the mid height of the bumper is classed as a fog light. What shape or how

bright the bulb is doesnt matter. Although there is always and exception to every rule. To me what you have done is change the bulb in your fog light there still fog lights. They dont appear to be to bright so like sprinter says most people wont mind, think you might have a problem with the police though Just like me i would still see them as fog lights

There is nothing laid down about the size of the light, the intensity or the wattage. There should be no more than two and should be no more than 1200mm from the ground. If used instead of dipped beam in poor visibility they should be 400mm from the outside edge of the car. They must display as white or yellow to the front and.. "so aimed that the upper edge of the beam is, as near as practicable, 3 per cent below the horizontal when the vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of 75 kg on the driver’s seat."

more here

Thanks Dave1 theres the proof of my point. Aproperly adjusted foglight (front) shouldnt dazzle anyone as its wrong legally to have it pointing upwards!! thats about the long and short of part of what your link says. So why make it illegal to have them on. If its illegal ?? to have them pointing upwards why make it illegal to have them on.

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The ONLY time I've ever heard or seen police taking action against front fogs being used was when I was walking through town once (100% clear night) and saw a police car being followed by a new style VW Golf with foglights on which seemed to be exeptionally bright or badly adjusted. The police car actually stopped, the driver got out (being visibly dazzled as she walked towards the other car) and just told him to turn them off.

But yes, fog lights in general (when properly adjusted so as not to cause glare to other drivers) seem to only be good as marker lights. I think its more of an attitude towards their use than actual danger caused by them.

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I will openly admit i use my fog lights WHEN it is foggy. Even if the fog is not that bad its an excuse to use them, yes i think they look good on, but i dont drive around with them on when its not foggy simple. i dont get that bothered withpeople who drive round with them on when its not foggy unless they are blinding me.

As for DRL lights having to be a certain height off the ground, i am unsure beacuse i see ford c-maxs s-maxs, 911s, boxters,merc s classes and so on all having the DRL lights in or around the fog lights. in my opinion they are a waste of time some one cant see a car in broad day light really should not be on or near a road!

one last rant although i am not from a council estate myself i find that first statement about the chavs driving back to their a bit stereotypical. If you actually look i would say a good percentage of the people driving around with their foglights on are middle aged or old people who have not took the time to look at their owners manual to see what the buttons or just have not noticed the light on in the dash!

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The ONLY time I've ever heard or seen police taking action against front fogs being used was when I was walking through town once (100% clear night) and saw a police car being followed by a new style VW Golf with foglights on which seemed to be exeptionally bright or badly adjusted. The police car actually stopped, the driver got out (being visibly dazzled as she walked towards the other car) and just told him to turn them off.

But yes, fog lights in general (when properly adjusted so as not to cause glare to other drivers) seem to only be good as marker lights. I think its more of an attitude towards their use than actual danger caused by them.

Thats my entire point sprinter. If fog lights were legal then everyone could use them as additional lights.Additional lights or drl is the law they are bringing in. From what i have seen diffrent manufacturers are using all sorts of lights fitted all over the front of the car.

As front fogs have been made illegal to use whats the point in fitting them to cars? you cant have them on and when they are on there no use!!.

If people want to say you can use them in low visabilty, then someone better work out a way of measuring low visabilty, then cough up to have this equipment put into all police cars. Then you need to define low visablity! as we all know fog comes down therefore at whatheight do you measure the fog Headheight? sat down or stood up? in a Range Rover or in a Mazda mx5. Theres lots of variables.

The simple law would be any light pointing upwards is illegal and subject to a prohibition notice. A simple tape measure could be used to check this at the road side. Lets face it any light which points upwards what ever bulb, led, halo or Xenon is going to cause dazzle.So why not make this the law. A man/woman with badly adjusted headlights(plane spotting) is ok but someone with fog lights on when its not foggy ends up in trouble. Seems real silly to me

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Now you've mentioned it, I do actually find my biggest problem with dazzle at night time is actually nothing to do with fog lights. It is as you put it 'plane spotters' I dont know how these people get through MOTs like it, but every other car on the road seems to have dipped beams aimed in my face! lol

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