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Help, Advice And A Dose Of Sanity Please!


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Hi all, i've not been on here for a good few months but i'm hoping i can get some decent honest advice and not just a load of bias remarks... :)

1st) Back in April i put a deposit down on a 2002 IS200 with 94k on the clock (£2250) and at the very last minute i decided to change my mind and go for a 2002 318i SE with 88.5K on the clock (£2050).

Since i've owned the Beemer, it's been great to be back on the road, but it's cost me an absolute fortune in garage bills (Around £1400 so far with a quoted £600 for the next oil service on sweating gaskets and strut mounts etc) I'm at a point now where i wish i hadn't of changed my mind. I don't like the thing to drive, it looks more dated and guzzles the same amount of fuel as the 6 cylinder Lexus...

I'm possibly looking at selling it soon having done so much work on it and getting it cheap to begin with (due to the required work) I just don't get any pleasure out of driving it to be honest and i'm not being ungreatful having had 2 years off the road with major knee surgery, it's great to have freedom again! But it just doesn't excite me, it feels average at best.

Ok, sorry to draw this out so much... Again, please be open minded and not bias just because this is a Lexus forum...

If i can sell for a fairly good price, i'd be looking to spend no more than £2500 on either an IS200 Sport or a Focus st170.

I know the common faults with both cars and i know they're both good reliable cars, but i can't afford a car with 30K on the clock, so it's going to be between 80K (if i'm lucky) and 95k ish...

What does everyone think i should do???

My head is just far to fried to think straight at the moment and i need help and advice off others to put things into perspective.

Thanks in advance,

Shifty.

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Well, having worked on lots of cars, I can tell you for the most part, the IS is better built that the Focus. Granted they are both plastic'y as hell, by the fit and finish if the IS is better than the focus. It's also better spec'd, although the focus is faster.

As for mileage, from what I've learned from talking to people about IS', is you have less to worry about with a higher mileage car with them, because the IS was built so damn well, so long as its been regularly serviced, a high mileage IS is just as reliable as a low mileage car. You just need proof that things like cambelts have been done, water pump, and oil/fluid changes have been done, along with more obvious age related things like bushes and brakes.

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Thanks for the reply, Matt! I do much prefer them to the Focus, comfort, refinement and road noise on long journeys are vastly improved and as for speed, i know it's a bit slower, only about 1 sec to 60 which i can live with and i'll probably never use the top speed on a public road anyway... I know it's the IS i want, it's just whether i can find a good enough one for the money i'll have (which is no definite amount at the moment)... I won't be buying silver again either, they're a b*tch to keep clean and if i'm going to be washing my car every week, i'd rather have a black one :-D

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If you are looking to buy cheap then (as I guess you found with the BM) you'll need to budget for jobs that will inevitably need doing on top of the purchase price.

That said, and as mentioned above, the IS performs and is so much better built that it carries the miles so much better.

You mention a ST170, I can imagine that if I was looking at wither at the same money, they ST is going to be a much poorer example £ for £?

J

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As a mechanic of over 22 years i have driven many many cars . The lexus is200 is no more exciting than the 318 you currently own. I have an is200 for 5 years now (the sameone) In that time i have own audi convertable,325 bmw and rover coupe turbo. All 3 where more exciting to drive than the Lexus. If its excitment you want go for the Focus over the Lexus. If you want reliable then it has to be the Lexus hands down. They are more expensive on parts when they break ,they just dont break. Mine has done 168,000 miles. when i bought it ,it had done 130,00. It came with no history at all. I believe in buying a car with your eyes before service history, a stamp can be made very easily and a service record made very simply. Anyway since owning my Lexus i have drove it like its stolen most of the time and other than the radiator going and me not noticing the temp gage being high and even when i did i carried on for another 4 miles with it screaming, its never let me down. The little rad leak cost me a head gasket timing belt and of course radiator.

Take your pick really but do road test a Lexus before you buy one, if you want excitment the is200 isnt for you.

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ok i have owned two fords first was 1.25 Zetec fiesta and 2.5 V6 cougar and i must say fords are really good cars if well maintined. i.e regular oil changes every 10K infact i had my fiesta for 2 and half years and never had an oil change done! why?? because the Zetec engine is built by Yamaha and the longer motorway journeys on this small engine results in it consuming a lot of oil on monthly basis so all i did was top up with shell 5w 30 every 3-4 weeks and this thing started first time everytime and run everywhere with no breakdown issues. I only changed from my 2.5 V6 cougar to IS300 because i wanted four doors and bit more oomph but the cougar drove well and had some guts the only breakdown i suffered was faulty alternator which was a common fault on the cougars so was bound to happen at some point. so keep the fords in top shape and they will run and run....

ST170 on paper are quick and will handle but i doubt they will be any different in the real world compared to IS200 as both are 6 speed and do 135mph the only difference between the two is the 0-60 time of 7.9 to ST170 compared to 9.2 for IS200 but then again how many times does one race from 0-60?? 29mpg to IS and 31 mpg to ST170 so mpg is the same pretty much if the IS is driven sensibly...IS200 being 6 cylinder will be more refined than the 4 pot ST and wont feel strained at higher speeds the Lexus brand gives a bit of class on the road being a 'luxury' brand..

in a nutshell, both will perform the same and return similar mpg so will boil down to if you want a hatch or a saloon..

if you really want a hot hatch get a Civic Type R and if you want a faster IS, get an IS300... hope this helps without being bias to Lexus...

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An st

ok i have owned two fords first was 1.25 Zetec fiesta and 2.5 V6 cougar and i must say fords are really good cars if well maintined. i.e regular oil changes every 10K infact i had my fiesta for 2 and half years and never had an oil change done! why?? because the Zetec engine is built by Yamaha and the longer motorway journeys on this small engine results in it consuming a lot of oil on monthly basis so all i did was top up with shell 5w 30 every 3-4 weeks and this thing started first time everytime and run everywhere with no breakdown issues. I only changed from my 2.5 V6 cougar to IS300 because i wanted four doors and bit more oomph but the cougar drove well and had some guts the only breakdown i suffered was faulty alternator which was a common fault on the cougars so was bound to happen at some point. so keep the fords in top shape and they will run and run....

ST170 on paper are quick and will handle but i doubt they will be any different in the real world compared to IS200 as both are 6 speed and do 135mph the only difference between the two is the 0-60 time of 7.9 to ST170 compared to 9.2 for IS200 but then again how many times does one race from 0-60?? 29mpg to IS and 31 mpg to ST170 so mpg is the same pretty much if the IS is driven sensibly...IS200 being 6 cylinder will be more refined than the 4 pot ST and wont feel strained at higher speeds the Lexus brand gives a bit of class on the road being a 'luxury' brand..

in a nutshell, both will perform the same and return similar mpg so will boil down to if you want a hatch or a saloon..

if you really want a hot hatch get a Civic Type R and if you want a faster IS, get an IS300... hope this helps without being bias to Lexus...

The st170 will out perform the Is every day of the week. Your quoted times for 0-60 are 1.3 seconds apart., if you do the maths thats not even close in terms of distance down the road.

The Lexus is 69kg heavier than a 5 door st and a 3 door st is lighter. (based on a 2002 model) Thats like driving round with a passenger in the car all the time. The st170 has more power at lower revs, the Lexus hits a max 195 nm of torque at 4,500 rpm the focus hits the same at 2,500 rpm. Just to confirm the figures ,a recently on a private road fo course ,raced my mate in his 3 door st170 trust me the figures stack up to the expected results.

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The st170 will out perform the Is every day of the week. Your quoted times for 0-60 are 1.3 seconds apart., if you do the maths thats not even close in terms of distance down the road.

The Lexus is 69kg heavier than a 5 door st and a 3 door st is lighter. (based on a 2002 model) Thats like driving round with a passenger in the car all the time. The st170 has more power at lower revs, the Lexus hits a max 195 nm of torque at 4,500 rpm the focus hits the same at 2,500 rpm. Just to confirm the figures ,a recently on a private road fo course ,raced my mate in his 3 door st170 trust me the figures stack up to the expected results.

ST170 making 196NM at a low 2500rpm is no magic because it has VVT-i on intake valves as well so its bound to happen in fact most VVT-i engines makes around 80 to 90% of their overall torque at a low 1500 to 2500 rpm! don’t believe me?? Take a civic type r as an example; it makes 196NM of torque at a very high 5900RPM but can still accelerate from 0-60 in a quick 6.7 secs and hit 146mph this is all due to VTEC helping it make enought torque at the wheels to propel it to 60 in 6.7 and hold that torque even at screamin rpms to make 197bhp and hit 146mph so IS200 will not be making 0NM of torque at 2500rpm it will at least have roughly 175NM at that rpm which gives it only 20NM disadvantage to ST170 and we all know that wont equate to 5 car lengths win if a 0-60 race is done between IS and 3door ST. IS200 weighs 1380kg and makes 153bhp at 6200rpm so this gives it a power to weight ratio of exactly 110bhp per ton. ST170 based on the 3 door version weighs 1283kg and makes 170bhp at 7000rpm so this gives it a power to weight ratio of 132bhp per ton which gives it a 22bhp advantage over 1S200 again 22bhp will equate to about 1-2 car lengths so ST170 will still hold a healthy advantage due to this and the ability to rev higher to 7000rpm but will still not disappear from sight. The IS200 wont handle as sharply around tight corners as the 3 door hatchback ST due to having 2 more doors but that can be cure by investing in some Sport lowering spring to bring the height down slightly and IS200 could go round corners just like a 3 door hatchback. ST’s only primary advantage lies in the fact that it revs to 7000rpm so when you were changing up to the next gear in your IS at 6200 your mate was still holding his gear all the way to 7000rpm thereby putting a bit more torque to the wheels with help of horse power climbing to 7000rpm.

So in conclusion I do agree the hatchback ST will definitely outperform the IS200 but certainly won’t have it easy nor will it win by a large margin.

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I have had many quick cars I chose the Lexus cos its well built has a great ride I have just had it MOTD today it has 82.000 miles and passed with no problems. The focus will be quicker though but why not go for a IS300 if you want a bit more grunt.

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The focus will be quicker though but why not go for a IS300 if you want a bit more grunt.

I echo that statement...0-60 figure of IS300 doesn't tell the whole performance story due to the gear ratio chosen by Lexus for second gear. but with VVT-i helping to broaden the torque curve from very low to mid rmps, 260NM is already on tap around 2-2500rpm increasing to almost 290NM at a low 3800rpm then dropping back to around 260NM at 5-6000rpm where maximum bhp is reached so as you can see the torque figures makes in gear/rolling acceleration crazy.. which keeps up with drivers of 3.0TDI 500NM engines pulling out of roundabouts or junctions who think they have all the torque in the world to overtake or out accelerate anyone at those low to mid rpms and the IS300 keeps up; I dont know how it does it but it just does.

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