P568Ufc Potential Ls400 Purchase

[Spottedlaurel]

Hi all. Hope it's OK for my first post to be in this section.

Quick intro, I'm a serial Japanese car buyer and have had numerous Datsuns/Nissans, Toyotas and others over the years. I currently have a 1980 Datsun Laurel, 2010 Avensis Tourer, my wife's 2002 Accord and three 1991-93 Camrys. It's through the latter that I've come to appreciate 1990s Toyota engineering, so a Lexus is the next logical thing to own!

I've just taken an aging Camry V6 off the road and sold its engine to an MR2 convertor, so have a little bit of cash and a 'spare' classic insurance policy to use for something else. A local banger racing acquaintance has what is believed to be an N-reg LS400 which is apparently still MoTed and I may have a look at that, but in the meantime I'm going to look at P568UFC on Saturday (assuming it hasn't already sold, and given that the ad is no longer on AutoTrader that seems unlikely).

Is this a known car to anybody? It's in Suffolk and is dark green over silver/gold on what look to be aftermarket wheels. Done something like 127k and is up for £800. Has a full year's MoT and apparently didn't need much doing or get any advisories. Seems to have stamps in the SH book up to a few years ago, don't yet know what paperwork there is beyond that. Best to assume nothing?!

I've read through some very useful threads on here so have an idea of what to look for, which I shall probably disregard entirely and let my heart rule over my head...

I suspect it needs a timing belt change, and I'd rather get a set of the original wheels fitted (I suspect the various local racers would be a source for these, who may also be able to help with other parts).

On that basis, does £800 seem reasonable? I will obviously try for less.

I thought a cheap Mk3 model would be a good place to start, but my ultimate aim is to own a 1989-92 model (Mk1?), as I think they look better. The owner of this local one has my number, though I haven't seen it about for a while:

1992 Lexus LS400 by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

Thanks in anticipation, hope to be discussing things soon as an owner....

[goldtop]

If the dark green one is/was owned by a US air force guy just off-base at Mildenhall, I think I saw it early this Summer. I walked away without driving it. Near complete lack of recent maintenance, blowing exhaust, no clue on timing belt. Might be a diferent one, of course.

Good luck. :)

[Spottedlaurel]

If the dark green one is/was owned by a US air force guy just off-base at Mildenhall, I think I saw it early this Summer. I walked away without driving it. Near complete lack of recent maintenance, blowing exhaust, no clue on timing belt. Might be a diferent one, of course.

Good luck. :)

Thanks for your reply.

Hmmm, it's entirely possible it is the same one. It's down at Felixstowe but the owner says he's only had it for three months or so (not always a good sign itself, of course). Tallies with the date you say. How much was it up for then, do you recall?

Could well be that this isn't the one to go for, but would be good to have a look at one or two before I take the plunge.

[n4chv]

Buying these sorts of cars is all about the condition and service history - better to buy a car that's been or appears to have been well looked after and that the owner has loads of service history and paperwork for it.

Go with your instincts when you see it, feel it, touch it and drive it - if it doesn't seem right or there are issues which you think could be expensive, walk away.

If you can take a mechanic friend or get a mechanical inspection, it's better to get some reassurance this way about the vehicle.

Whilst these cars are not the most common, there will always be a better car that will come along.

Once these sorts of cars reach the £2k mark, depreciation tends to slow considerably and in my opinion, anything under £1k has to be viewed with some suspicion if the owner claims the cars drives perfectly - if it was like that, he would be asking for more money.

Good luck

[goldtop]

If the dark green one is/was owned by a US air force guy just off-base at Mildenhall, I think I saw it early this Summer. I walked away without driving it. Near complete lack of recent maintenance, blowing exhaust, no clue on timing belt. Might be a diferent one, of course.

Good luck. :)

Thanks for your reply.

Hmmm, it's entirely possible it is the same one. It's down at Felixstowe but the owner says he's only had it for three months or so (not always a good sign itself, of course). Tallies with the date you say. How much was it up for then, do you recall?

Could well be that this isn't the one to go for, but would be good to have a look at one or two before I take the plunge.

The (then) owner was very optimistic. It was up for £1800, then £1500, then £1300 ... sort of "death by a thousand price cuts". It wasn't a wreck, just very under-maintained.

I do recall that he was moving back to the USA, so he may have sold it for a lot less if he held out until the last minute.

[ambermarine]

There are as Nach says other examples out there and if you are prepared to do some waiting and legwork you will iliminate most of the crap.
Although Private ownership is best road those are rare because the owner does'nt want to part with it in the first place.
Dealers are not all bad and come up with examples that are worth a look and usually give some form of guarantee if pushed .
Try for a Mark 4 as they are regarded as the best of the range for reliability and spares in the second market are more available.

[Malc]

The Mk1, your ultimate ambition, is admirable. I too rather prefer that shape to the later ones, maybe I'm just an old classic style softie.

I remember my Mk1 had 15" wheels and brakes to match, so think about that too if you really want one ............. it's a lot of car to stop at speed !!

Malc

[ambermarine]

I had a Mark 1 for 16 years and that went to a new owner two years ago at the age of 22, mechanically it was super but was suffering from serious rust issues and a blowing y pipe .Sadly it as now been scrapped and that is of particular regret for me as I wanted it to be a true classic and strived for that. The Mark 1 was not as rust resistant as the later marques,and thats what killed it in the end.

[Spottedlaurel]

Some interesting comments and ideas there, thanks everyone. If I got a Mk1 it would be to treat as a classic, like my old Datsun. I wouldn't be doing trackdays in it like I did with my Camry V6...

I do usually prefer that my older cars have come from long-term owners. I don't necessarily need to meet them though, it could be something that's come in as a part-ex and I have a good relationship with my local Toyota/Lexus dealer so I should get them to have a look-out for me.

It may be a struggle to get a Mk4 onto my classic insurance policy for the moment, even a '96/97 model adds a little bit to my usual premium with RH. Rather than leap in and spend £2k, it could well be that the first one I buy will be at a price that I'm prepared to sacrifice should something go terribly wrong. I could always keep it for spares for a better, subsequent model (which is how I once had five Camrys). Ultimately I have my Avensis for sensible daily transport and the Laurel for shows etc, the Lexus would be something to have a bit of fun with in-between the two of them.

[mikeyv]

You have great taste, Laurels were marvelous cars.

Buying them at auction in the 80s was easy, as very few people knew about them, so you got very little competition.

I bought a good few, and not a duffer amongst them, also a Camry fan, and indeed most big old Japs.

You'll love the LS, I'm sure.

[Spottedlaurel]

Someone must have found the green one to be suitably priced, or the seller accepted a cheeky offer, as it's now been sold. So I won't be going for that one. Still got the possibility of another cheapie though...

At this time of year I find myself using this less and less:

1980 Datsun Laurel 2.4 (C230) by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

And I need something else as an occasional alternative to the sensible diesel Avensis!

[LexIS200Sport]

Nigel, that looks mint! I think you and I are going to be good friends. Here's mine:

Originally powered by the L20S but now fitted with an L24E that was lifted off an R30 saloon. Just celebrated her 32nd birthday last month too. :)

Oh, and welcome to the Lexus owners club! :D

[Spottedlaurel]

Nigel, that looks mint! I think you and I are going to be good friends. Here's mine:

Originally powered by the L20S but now fitted with an L24E that was lifted off an R30 saloon. Just celebrated her 32nd birthday last month too. :)

Oh, and welcome to the Lexus owners club! :D

Thanks Ganesh! I saw that someone else on here had a Laurel, good to see it. An L24E would be an interesting upgrade to mine, but to be honest it runs well enough on the carb-fed L24S currently in it. When I had a 240K GT (C210) with the L24E I don't remember it being significantly more powerful.

Keeping this on topic, I'm going to see an LS400 tomorrow afternoon :-)

As an added bonus, the white Mk1 pictured in my first post is definitely still around, I saw it tucked away in the chap's garage the other day.

[Spottedlaurel]

So, I went and saw this one yesterday:

1996 Lexus LS400 - next purchase? by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

1996 Lexus LS400 - next purchase? by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

Took me a moment or two to place the wheels, they're 18's off a GS300 Sport I think. I'd prefer to get some standard 16's back on it, are these Sport wheels worth anything?

Were it not cheap I wouldn't be considering it - very little history after the last stamp in the book in 2004 at 50k, probably gone through a handful of owners recently, evidence of paintwork repairs on quite a few panels etc. MoT advisories on front lower ball joints and - rather oddly - plastic trays and fittings obscuring views of the engine bay. Surely the case with all modern cars?! It now shows 70k but I'm not sure how accurate that is....

But, it starts, runs, drives and stops, all with no undue noises or drama. It has a current MoT and is cheap enough that if something went wrong before the next one or it was not worth the expense of putting through another one I could sell it back for not too much loss to the banger racer. He also has a stock of others which might be useful for spares. Everything I tried inside seemed to work, heater blew nice and hot, temp gauge steady. Interior tidy enough for an old barge that's probably gone through a few hands.

1996 Lexus LS400 - interior by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

Let's see how discussions with him next week work out. If I buy this it puts me in a better position to perhaps rescue others he has (saw far too many getting raced at a big banger championship last weekend!). He did have a decent-looking H-reg Mk1 in his yard...

[runsgrateasanut]

I've still got mixed feelings about the LS400 I bought without inspection for £800. The Dealer parts for a cambelt topped £500 and didn't give me the parts found on a complete set you see on eBay US where there are paper gaskets and rubber o rings for under £200 Lexus failed to quote or supply the necessary o rings costing me a week in delayed fitting. Also expect a £300 min for the cost of replacing. So spend £800 again just to satisfy yourself the cambelt is good (which mine appeared to be) and that the water pump is not starting to leak (which mine appeared to be!)

Important things like aircon work, but LED display read out has disappeared. £100 to replace plus a bit of soldering skill needed.

Front driver seat fails to go back one side and there is a fix mentioned on this forum - when I can get around to it. I don't like the fact that the car seats are rather on the small side and there isnt a great deal of headroom. Static grabs my hair. I was used to Merc S Class larger seats and a lower profile. Also little niggly things such as no catch felt between seats and central console. My Cleo debit card slipped down the passenger side after paying at a peage around midnight and I couldn't get it out until I got home as the car was rammed with holiday stuff - most annoying. Small change goes the same way. Don't like the fact that I have to hand pull the wing mirrors out. I miss the soft close doors of the Merc. Can't open the boot internally if the engine is running I find irritiatiing. BTW expect a lot of work if you have exhausts blowing at the gaskets by the Lambda probes. (MOT fail) A pair of gaskets costs £20. The bolts are undo-able usually as the heads rust away, so may require burning off and therefore carpet lifting etc. Even though I have had this done and it passed the MOT I seem to get a whiff of exhaust when the car door is open and I don't know why. Perhaps this is due to having two exhaust pipes as opposed to a double on the opposite side on the Merc?

OK So ina way I miss the size of the Merc (LWB) but having just returned from France after 1300 miles the Lexus performed well and so I'm not too disappointed I made the change. Oh, I should also mention that Brakes required complete overhaul as were positively dangerous imo and with new discs and pads and pins and springs they bite like the devil. So now no complaints and after all these are service items.

I would add that an old S Class has its faults rust being a major one. Old Cars what should I expect? Fact is that they are still a bargain for what they cost and give you luxury motoring without the headache of Stealership servicing costs.

[Titch LS]

LS 400's as Banger racers. Makes me cringe just thinking about it. Regarding specifications, on my mk4, both mirrors fold in/out electrically and I'm sure the boot can be opened internally while the engine is running. Also, I've never found any Merc seats I've ever sat in to be as comfortable as my LS seats. (Maybe the S class is different in this respect?) They've always felt typically German to me, i.e. - a bit too much on the firm side. Would'nt mind soft-closing doors though.

[cruisermark]

the boot can be opened with he engine running on the mark but not on the mark 3

[GLTease]

LOL It was me that bought P568 UFC. Timing belt and water pump already replaced (by me) :), the day I bought it I covered 600+ miles bringing it back to Ireland , the car behaved flawlessly everything works, and no blowouts in the exhaust, either that was resolved or didn't exist.. final price was £750 and a years MOT. got it as my XJ8 decided to blow its gear box.. 10 times the car that the Jag is.. Me and missus were on hols and decided to bring a car home with us...

[Spottedlaurel]

LOL It was me that bought P568 UFC. Timing belt and water pump already replaced (by me) :), the day I bought it I covered 600+ miles bringing it back to Ireland , the car behaved flawlessly everything works, and no blowouts in the exhaust, either that was resolved or didn't exist.. final price was £750 and a years MOT. got it as my XJ8 decided to blow its gear box.. 10 times the car that the Jag is.. Me and missus were on hols and decided to bring a car home with us...

Sounds like you did OK then, I should have got there quicker :-) Actually found a photo of it on the gallery here: http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/gallery/image/7809-img-1560/

I'm going for the local N-reg car, just got to sort the paperwork and work out when I can collect it. What could possibly go wrong with an LS400 for £500?... (Probably best not anwered, I just hope I don't find out for myself too much.)

[goldtop]

Nice one, Patrick. And good luck, Nigel. £500 and £750 is nothing for the amount of car you get, is it?

[runsgrateasanut]

LOL It was me that bought P568 UFC. Timing belt and water pump already replaced (by me) :), the day I bought it I covered 600+ miles bringing it back to Ireland , the car behaved flawlessly everything works, and no blowouts in the exhaust, either that was resolved or didn't exist.. final price was £750 and a years MOT. got it as my XJ8 decided to blow its gear box.. 10 times the car that the Jag is.. Me and missus were on hols and decided to bring a car home with us...

Funny thing, we were in Lidl just outside Confolens a couple of weeks ago and i held up the couple behind me because they had mispriced an electric chain saw and I made the girl go and check. Anyway, when we were unloading into the Car the Couple came out and the Scottish gent came straight across to me an says "I'll swap you my Jaguar XJ8 (I think it was) for your Lexus"! He stood admiring it and talking about his love for them and even asked if he could sit in it. The smile on his face when he said "i've sat in a Lexus" cheered me up noo end. Oops "no end". I only regret that I failed to mention to the couple before they left, that Chabanais quite nearby was having its annual Pumpkin Festival and the Town is twinned with Forfar and usually has a few Scots in Kilts enjoying a Mayoral dinner etc. This year I didn't spot a kilt but several Billy Connolly beards ! Oh and one Blue later Lexus L400 the first I've seen in France - UK Registered

[Spottedlaurel]

So, my collection of N750FWC went well and it now sits on my driveway :-) A couple of better shots from just before I brought it home:

1996 Lexus LS400 by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

1996 Lexus LS400 by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

Haven't had time for any sort of inspection of it but no nasty surprises yet, just pleasant ones like how smooth and quiet these are to drive! Even with the 18" alloys it's very good, though I suspect they are noisier and give a firmer ride than the 16's would do. My children were both disturbed by the hush inside the cabin when on the move, and the heated rear seats are popular with them...

The only thing I've found so far to be any sort of problem is the LH door mirror, which is stuck on 'dark' with elements showing through and the adjustment that side doesn't work. The chap I bought it from probably has a spare on one of his bangers (he was building a Mk1 when I visited earlier in the week).

As conditions haven't allowed and/or I've had the children with me I have only been driving it very gently so far, but I can see the V8 will provide it with some amusing briskness (the Nissans 300Cs I used to drive 10-15yrs ago and Camry V6 more recently were similar in that regard).

In an odd twist of fate, it looks like I will be ending up with the original 16" alloys off the green Mk3 which started this thread going. A friend of mine knows the previous owner and apparently GLTease didn't want them when he bought it so for the price they're being offered to me I can't say no. Described as having legal tyres but in need of refurbishment, got to be worth £25?! Ride and noise aside, the 18's aren't ideal with all the potholes on the roads (I bent a 17" on my Camry Sport several years ago).

Now just got to find some excuses to drive it....

[Malc]

Mine's a similar colour and it's, believe it or not ............. Aspen Green

Aren't they an absolute joy to drive :outforcount:

Malc

[goldtop]

Excellent - looks pretty tidy and is great in that colour. Definitely agree on swapping the wheels. I'll be doing the same as soon as I get a chance (Mk4 DHP 17" to Mk3/4 16").

[LexIS200Sport]

Congrats Nigel, the car looks ace! :D

I actually like the GS sport wheels on it ;)