Car Thefts

[200h]

has anyone watched watchdog this evening on bbc1 they where showing how theives where taking cars by creating

new keys these manufacturers included BMW , LAND ROVER and AUDI but after watching tonights programme do you feel

lexus owners have any thing to worry about ??? what are your feelings

as it happens i only spoke to lexus head office today about this and they tried to assure me that lexus is safe (but they would say that)

as insurance companies are happy with the lexus security sytem fitted

[The-Acre]

Lexus have always come out tops in vehicle security, so I'm assuming nothing has changed.

[rayaans]

Who cares? If someone is planning to steal your car, they'll use one method or the other. Just relax and if it happens, allow your insurance to take over. No point really having sleepless nights over it.

Of course Lexus owners have something to worry about! the OBD port is found on every car, on Lexus its in the same place as any other manufacturer, under the steering wheel. Just hope they cant get into the actual car first

Besides, I doubt the CT would be a high priority car. You're talking about Range Rover's, Merc S Classes, Audi RS4's etc.

[ChumpusRex]

I don't have enough technical details to know how the new key production works. The "official" way of programming new keys in audi cars requires a working key to put the car into "programming" mode. If you don't have a working key to hand, you have to replace almost the entire electrical system and door locks.

However, it is possible to bypass this somehow - probably, people have worked out how to modify the firmware on the security ECU, and upload a new firmware which has the check for an existing key deleted.

My brother bought a newish 2nd hand Audi A3, but it only came with 1 key. One day he lost it. He called the dealer: ultra-secure system, no way to reprogram new keys. £3000 for a new ECU, new security unit, new locks, etc. He leaves the car at home, and takes the train to work. He phones an independent "security specialist" while at work. 2 hours later, the security bloke turns up at his work, with 2 new car keys and a bill for £400. He'd gone to my brother's house, broken into the car, reprogrammed the ECU, decoded the locks, cut 2 keys and matched the immobiliser chips to the car, and then hand delivered them to my brother 10 miles away.

Toyota/lexus do seem to secure their electronics better than audi/BMW. Look how difficult it is to get a remap for a toyota or lexus! The electronics has reasonably good anti-tamper technology in it (to prevent competitors from stealing the technology in the programs). Whether this is actually because of better design, or because there are fewer electronics experts trying to reverse engineer lexus ECUs than BMW ECUs, I don't know.

[bluenose1940]

I watched the WatchDog prog last night and when they were showing us how easy it is to copy a key, in each instance the car was unlocked and the drivers door was open.

At no time did they tell us how the would-be key copier got into the car in the first place.

Electronics are an absolute no-no for me but, I am assuming that this can only be done if the car owner leaves the car open to all and sundry. Surely, if they (the thieves) have to force entry in the first place, the alarm will be activated..........won't it?

[ColinBarber]

Focus seems to be on the keyless entry systems at the moment. Whist the systems are designed to only work a few meters between car and key, it seems the range is often more and it also seems possible to relay the signal - so you pickup the key signal just outside the house and then relay it to a remote device next to the car and get in. You can then use the discussions above to program a new key, or just start up the car and drive off.

Whilst you could take the attitude of who cares, it seems some insurance companies are taking the opportunity to dismiss a claim due to negligence on the owners part.

[Pidu]

Reading this made mi think of this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCl9TMOyojQ

Read the description below. Not sure about one thing - even without opening doors movement sensors should trigger the alarm, but on the other hand the area close to A pillar might be out of their reach.

I guess the only solution is comprehensive insurance + GAP and watch were you park your car.

[Rich2508]

They may be clever enough to work out how to get in, but wouldn't have a clue how to drive it away, took mine to Quick Fit the other day to have a tyre check and they came back and asked me to put it on the ramp!

[rayaans]

Focus seems to be on the keyless entry systems at the moment. Whist the systems are designed to only work a few meters between car and key, it seems the range is often more and it also seems possible to relay the signal - so you pickup the key signal just outside the house and then relay it to a remote device next to the car and get in. You can then use the discussions above to program a new key, or just start up the car and drive off.

Whilst you could take the attitude of who cares, it seems some insurance companies are taking the opportunity to dismiss a claim due to negligence on the owners part.

Negligence on the owners part is the owners fault though isn't it? Its like hitting your TV with a cricket bat and trying to claim on the warranty?!

[ColinBarber]

Negligence on the owners part is the owners fault though isn't it? Its like hitting your TV with a cricket bat and trying to claim on the warranty?!

Yes but insurance companies are claiming that enabling the keyless entry system, or rather not disabling it, is negligent.

[Wass]

If the wrong sort of people want anything which belongs to anyone else, they will eventually find a way to take it. I rather like some of the more intricate solutions some individual systems employ: allowing the vehicle to move but only for approx 100 metres before activating a passive GPS tracker thus allowing the busy police to make arrests with the minimum of police work. When all is said and done stopping people from stealing other peoples possessions has to start with improving conviction rates/ increasing deterrent for any given type of theft.