Rx400h

[LexusEdinburgh]

This started in the GS forum but I thought it best we bring it here!

We were talking about potential fuel economy for the forth coming Hybrid Rx…. On the LGB website Click here it states that ‘In the US-specification model it will be possible to cover 625 miles on a single tank of fuel.’ Quick bit of math’s… 19.2 US gallon tank in the US model equals 16 UK gallons which means 39 MPG!! I can live with that!

[john graydon]

I could live with that too. Currently getting 20 mpg around city with rx300.

[Fidgits]

What is the predicted RRP for the RX400h?

[LexusEdinburgh]

I would not expect to have prices till much closer to the car being launched.

I am sure it will still be much better value than its closest competitors, either in performance (BMW X5 4.4i/MB ML500) or economy (errrr, can't think of one!)

Given the demand there is for it already (I have taken 3 orders this week!!) vs. what I am sure will be very short supply in the short to mid term, the price will be irrelevant :) . I genuinely think this will be an 'over list' car in the used market. You heard it here first!

[Bazza]

why is it called the 400 ?

[ColinBarber]

why is it called the 400 ?

It's called a 400 because the combined power of the petrol engine and electric motors equates to about the same power as a 4.0V8 petrol engine.

[ColinBarber]

Click here it states that ‘In the US-specification model it will be possible to cover 625 miles on a single tank of fuel.’ Quick bit of math’s… 19.2 US gallon tank in the US model equals 16 UK gallons which means 39 MPG!! I can live with that!

I hope the fuel tank the same size as the old one? :o

This is a quote from the US press release:

The RX 400h will develop a peak system output of approximately 270 horsepower and deliver combined fuel economy significantly better than the current average compact sedan rating of 27.6 miles-per-gallon. Zero-to-sixty acceleration will also improve over the current RX 330's sub-8 second time. The RX 400h with optional all-wheel-drive, which features a rear-drive electric motor, will accelerate quicker yet.

What does significantly mean? If it does 27.6 US mpg then that is 33mpg using real gallons. The UK RX300 does 30.1mpg extra-urban.

[UKPulse]

See in this month's What Car? (Feb 04) Supplement there's a short piece on the new RX Hybrid.

"...quicker than a 3.0-litre BMW X5 (0-62mph in seven seconds) yet able to match the fuel economy of a mid-range Toyota Corolla. Predicted emissions of 150 grams per kilometer..."

"£32,000 (est)"

[ColinBarber]

I guess the price will depend on trim levels. I would have thought it would be the top of the range and Ian is talking about completing with the BMW X5 4.4 so I would think the price will be well into the £40k

Hopefully they will also bring out a basic model that will complete with the entry spec 3.0d X5

[JohnRX400h]

JOB DONE!!!!!!!

Down at Lexus Edinburgh yesterday and got my order in. One day I will keep a car for a couple of years!

So roll on 'late 04' for my third RX in as many years. :D

Does this mean I'll need to change my name to JohnRX400H? :winky:

[nickjwarman]

I noticed in Autocar that the RX400h has a release date of January 2005 - they've been showing fall 2004 as the release date for months - does this indicate new information of a later release date?

I hope not as I put down a deposit on one yesterday!

Anyone got any opinions, or better still actual information?!

[LexusEdinburgh]

It is looking like the launch date will be Jan 2005 but is so worth waiting for!!

Please see here for the latest information - RX400h

Ian

[ColinBarber]

Ian, I see they have confirmed they are using the 3.3l engine. Will that engine make it's way into the standard models in Europe, as in the US, or are they sticking with the 3.0l?

[LexusEdinburgh]

Ian, I see they have confirmed they are using the 3.3l engine. Will that engine make it's way into the standard models in Europe, as in the US, or are they sticking with the 3.0l?

As far as know, the New GS will come with an all new 3.0 engine and the RX300 will remain as is.

I think the 3.3 is being used as a world standard for the 'h', probably easier to just engineer one powertrain!

[nickjwarman]

aaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhh.....i hope they don't stretch the wait past january.

[dazzab69]

Ian, I see they have confirmed they are using the 3.3l engine. Will that engine make it's way into the standard models in Europe, as in the US, or are they sticking with the 3.0l?

As far as know, the New GS will come with an all new 3.0 engine and the RX300 will remain as is.

I think the 3.3 is being used as a world standard for the 'h', probably easier to just engineer one powertrain!

I've just been looking at the US Lexus page and the RX330 has 230 Bhp and does the 0-60 dash in 7.8 (which is less that 8 secs in my book !) without any electric motors.

So in the US all you get for the extra cash is an extra 40 Bhp and improved fuel consumption, but not performance.

Surely Lexus are being a bit conservative with the quoted figures for the RX400h ?

[DieterML]

Hi all,

The new 400h looks (very) interesting but I would like to make an objective comment . There is some data on a Mercedes Diesel hybrid (ML270CDi) which claims 20% improvement in fuel economy (see www.whnet.com/4x4/hybrid.html).

Combined fuel consumption figures (posted by Lexus) are 21.7 mpg. Given that fuel tank is 16.5 gal (approx) then to get '600miles on a tank full' fuel consumption would have to increase to 36.4mpg. This is an increase of 68%! . Sounds too good to be true? Even assuming a 'cruising' average of 27mpg this would still require an increase of 35%.

How does this hybrid system really work. I assume that when you start up from cold the engine (petrol) is also started (so it can warm up etc.), unless the oil is heated and pumped around the engine electrically (unlikely I would have thought).

If your cruising on the motorway will the engine be off? etc or will it need to be 'ticking over' so that if you wish to accelerate rapidly you will get a 'rapid' response etc.

I look forward to some more 'solid' information on this car.

Cheers, Dieter

So does the petrol engine need to be ticking over (at least) all the time?

[Monster-Mat]

from what i understand the engine is switched off......

there are a couple of members that have the hybrid, or at least ordered it wait for there replys

[ColinBarber]

Follow this link for more information:

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/knowledge...x_v2&id=22&c=13

[JohnRX400h]

This is the best source........

http://en.lexus-hybrid.com/

But basically the opposite of what you said (sorry!), petrol engines are very inefficient when going slow, hence poor consumption around town, and therefore the electric motors will do most of the work for start stop driving.

And since electric motors to not use oil this hopefully answers your other point.

Out of town the petrol engine is much more efficient, so when cruising the petrol does most of the work and the batteries get topped up.

In so far as the engine ticking over again this is inefficient so when not needed it switches off. However when you then subsequently need power the engine starts again. So this can happen 'instantly' the engine is stopped at the best possible place to start it, i.e. with the crank, cylinders etc in an optimal position.

Make sense?

John

[DieterML]

Hi all (again),

Thanks for the feedback but I am aware of this info. My points are more practical in nature.

So do you really think the Hybrid will show a 65% reduction in fuel consumption (i.e. from 21.7 to 36.4 mpg)? especially as Mercedes are only claiming 20% i.e. rx400h, under normal mixed driving conditions, will average 26mpg?

How is the (petrol) engine warmed up from cold (especially in winter)? If you drive in 30mph limit for a while (i.e. locally) will this be all electrically powered? The engine (petrol) has to be started sometime and hence it will 'warm up' (I suppose).

When will the petrol engine 'fire up'. Once it's warm (petrol engine) then I can see how the system may work (except for M-way cruising).

If you're on the M-way and the engine is the prime motive power how does that tie in with such a decreased fuel consumption (i.e. should approach 'cruising' 27mpg). In fact, maintenance of cruising speed requires v little power and could be maintained by the electric motor, but if engine is off how quick can system respond?

My understanding is that the electrical motor supplies power when the petrol engine is at its least efficient (i.e. low revs/torque etc.) and the petrol engine/regenerative braking recharges the Battery. The petrol engine can recharge the Battery whilst idling (cf alternators etc. which always charge)

I am not 'knocking' Lexus, I am genuinely interested in how the car really works.

Cheers,

Dieter

PS I do know that electric motors don't require oil!!!! and I think the Merc Battery was water cooled

[ColinBarber]

Lexus haven't release fuel consumpsion figures. The 600 miles won't be on the combined fuel figure.

The engine runs all the time unless you come to a stop.

The 400h is not just about economy. It's also being sold as a higher performance RX.

[JohnRX400h]

PS  I do know that electric motors don't require oil!!!!

Do I detect the fact I was a little blunt? If so didn't mean to offend

Any way back to the topic, I guess I only have a general awareness of the product and until I get a test drive won't know the whole story. And being really honest saw the extra 70 bhp and thought I'll have one of those, who cares how it is delivered. B)

I probably don't do enough miles each year to justify changing RX300 for the Hybrid but then climbers don't really need to go to the top of mountains do they?

[dazzab69]

I probably don't do enough miles each year to justify changing RX300 for the Hybrid but then climbers don't really need to go to the top of mountains do they?

Ahh but if the RX400H turns out to be a depreciation success you may be able to justify the overall on-the-road running cost ! :D

[LexusEdinburgh]

Mercedes are only claiming 20%

You must remember who owns this technology!!

The figs for MB may well be accurate................for them ;)