Rx400h

[Sabastian]

Lexus haven't release fuel consumpsion figures. The 600 miles won't be on the combined fuel figure.

The engine runs all the time unless you come to a stop.

The 400h is not just about economy. It's also being sold as a higher performance RX.

The Lexus Hybrid publication states that the petrol engine is designed not to operate when it cannot do so efficiently, such as at start up and at low to mid-range speeds. At these times, the car runs on electric power alone.

[JohnRX400h]

I probably don't do enough miles each year to justify changing RX300 for the Hybrid but then climbers don't really need to go to the top of mountains do they?

Ahh but if the RX400H turns out to be a depreciation success you may be able to justify the overall on-the-road running cost ! :D

'Justify'

There is an interesting word when it come to cars. We could probably 'Justify' a Ford Fiesta but WANT a Lex. :winky:

If I try to 'Justify' my TT I'll start talking about how the Quattro makes it 'safer' in the wet.

Lets face it folks, we are all petrol heads and WANT nice cars, not exactly the Commuinist way but what the hell!

[dazzab69]

'Justify'

There is an interesting word when it come to cars. We could probably 'Justify' a Ford Fiesta but WANT a Lex. :winky:

If I try to 'Justify' my TT I'll start talking about how the Quattro makes it 'safer' in the wet.

Lets face it folks, we are all petrol heads and WANT nice cars, not exactly the Commuinist way but what the hell!

Very true, but if you could have the car with head and heart isn't that so much sweeter :winky: ?

[DieterML]

Hi again,

Mercedes also quote the performance benefits of the extra power of the electric motor but don't make such bold claims regarding fuel economy. If the 600 mile figure relates to cruising at 56mph then I could do that right now (boring!! and probably dangerous) with my Diesel! Lexus claims fuel economy of an average saloon and it will be interesting to get the 'real' figures (a la Mercedes).

What is certain though, is the the 400h will be both more powerful AND more fuel efficient than the current 300.

As to depreciation, I would agree with you that it should hold its price better than the current model (especially in London with C-charge etc.) but will it compare with the 'new' M-class (due mid 2005)?

My concern with the engine warming up was that this is the most fuel unefficient time for petrol engine use (especially on a freezing winters day which will also 'challenge' Battery output). This is why I felt the engine (petrol) would have to be in 'idle mode' whilst warming up etc. and that the system could be more flexible once the engine was warm.

Thanks for the feedback and I'll continue 'watching this space' to see how the 400h develops.

Cheers,

Dieter

[ColinBarber]

If the 600 mile figure relates to cruising at 56mph then I could do that right now (boring!! and probably dangerous) with my Diesel!

But your diesel doesn't put out 280bhp.

If you want to know more information then look at the Mark 2 Toyota Prius, it shares the technology.

[LexusEdinburgh]

Mercedes are only claiming 20%

You must remember who owns this technology!!

The figs for MB may well be accurate................for them ;)

This ended up at the bottom of page one and seems to have got lost

[DieterML]

Hi again,

Do Toyota 'own' hybrid technology? I think not though they do have more practical experience(s): Prius etc.

There is more info on the rx400h @ http://www.autosite.com/Previews/2005-lexus-rx-400h.asp

Fuel consumption (combined) quoted at 26.7 mpg which, coincidentally, happens to be a 20% (approx) increase in fuel efficiency (same as that quoted by Mercedes!!).

A diesel/hybrid engine will be an option for the new Mercedes R-class (GST as was). This is a 4.0 ltr twin turbo + 50 BHP (or so) electric motor giving over 300bhp (combined) and 33 mpg (but far more expensive!!).

Cheers,

Dieter

[LexusEdinburgh]

Do Toyota 'own' hybrid technology? I think not though they do have more practical experience(s): Prius etc.

There is more info on the rx400h @ http://www.autosite.com/Previews/2005-lexus-rx-400h.asp

Fuel consumption (combined) quoted at 26.7 mpg which, coincidentally, happens to be a 20% (approx) increase in fuel efficiency (same as that quoted by Mercedes!!).

A diesel/hybrid engine will be an option for the new Mercedes R-class (GST as was). This is a 4.0 ltr twin turbo + 50 BHP (or so) electric motor giving over 300bhp (combined) and 33 mpg (but far more expensive!!).

Cheers,

Dieter

They developed and therefore own the most important parts of the technology. They will be selling or renting it to other companies to use, just as Philips did with the CD. This will mean TMC and therefore Lexus will always be one step ahead.

These figs here are in US gallons, have your read the start of this thread?

[DieterML]

Hi Ian,

Your'e absolutely right :D and if you convert to uk gallons (i.e. x 1.202) this equates to 32.1mpg, which is b....y good for a 3.3ltr petrol engine (but still not as good as the more powerful Merc 4.0 diesel hybrid!).

As to Toyota 'owning' the technology, "all" (simplistically) a hybrid system requires is an engine (petrol/diesel), a Battery, an electric motor (surely not patented by Toyota?) and software to co-ordinate the system. I wouldn't think that Toyota could have patented these components though their software expertise is (probably) the most advanced.

I agree the 400h is a groundbreaking car but it won't be on its 'own' for long. Petrol engines are intrisically less fuel efficient than diesels (though more 'refined') and as diesels are/become as refined (as petrol engines) then diesel/hybrids must be a good way to go.

Cheers,

Dieter

[ColinBarber]

The problem with the article on autosite is it is just a re-write of the Lexus press release but using incorrect information.

The actual information that Lexus have released is that it will:

deliver combined fuel economy significantly better than the current average compact sedan rating of 27.6 miles-per-gallon.

not just that it will deliver 27.6 mpg

http://www.lexus.com/about/press_releases/...pr_01_06_a.html

[LexusEdinburgh]

I wouldn't think that Toyota could have patented these components though their software expertise is (probably) the most advanced.

Have a look here Dieter FACTS

and don't worry, there won't be enough h's to go round any way, you wait for your Merc, I am sure they will have improved their JD Power result by then too :winky:

Ian

[DieterML]

Hi Ian,

"you wait for your Merc, I am sure they will have improved their JD Power result by then too"

If I replace my current ML I will (probably) choose between the new ML (diesel) and rx400h, hence my interest on this site. However as it's my own money I'll have to part with, (perceived) residual values will (have to) play a prominent role in my final choice. So will the hybrid technology be able to 'even up' (to) Merc residuals etc.?

I agree with you re JD survey etc as build quality/customer service is probably at its lowest for Mercedes for many years (impressions from Merc web sites etc.). However new models (E-class, SLK etc.) appear to be addressing these problems and my impression is that improvements are underway.

My discussions points have mainly focussed on practicalities of running hybrid systems etc. (i.e. response times if (petrol) engine off etc.).

Whilst Ford may be licensing Toyota system(s) I don't believe Mercedes are e.g placement of electric motor is different (see site on first posting) and it's linked to a diesel engine (unlike the Toyota system).

I am genuinely interested in the 400h but would like to see some real figures (a la Mercedes which states a 20% improvement in diesel fuel economy). If the final (i.e. 'on the road') combined fuel consumption figures for 400h are increased by = to or > 50% then that will be impressive!!! , but I'm afraid I won't believe it till I 'see' it.

Cynically a petrol hybrid is just another way of Toyota obtaining 'diesel-like' fuel consumption figures (albeit it with reduced emissions etc) from a petrol engine, (e.g = to Merc 400CDi) especially as Lexus are the only marque (4 x 4 sales) without a diesel option (which take a high proportion of BMW, Volvo, Merc etc. 4 x 4 sales).

Any way this RX300 site get so few postings (one a day?) that I thought I'd try to 'liven it up' a bit :winky:

Cheers,

Dieter

[dazzab69]

I've noticed something reading the latest brochure from Lexus on the RX400h. It seems to imply that the petrol engine only drives the front wheels, with the electric motors driving the rear when necessary. This means that it is a development of the FWD version of the RX330, and that it isn't a real 4x4.

[ColinBarber]

There are front and rear electric motors so it is an electric 4x4 + a petrol fwd

[Monster-Mat]

for M Class lovers everywhere

:)

LINKY 1

LINKY 2

LINKY 3

do i need to carry on......................

LINKY 4

and there was hundreds more...........

below are all the links for the Problems with the RX

sorry, there were no Lemon sites for the RX nor even Lexus.......

[DieterML]

Hi all,

So what? Most of those links refer to the pre-facelift model which was universally criticised.

A car is just a car, surely NOT an object of 'love' (Lexus owners please comment!)? I like (driving) my ML and I am looking objectively for a replacement (at the appropriate time) be it Mercedes, Lexus or Lada!!!.

I don't believe I've 'slagged off' Lexus and have agreed that there have been problems with Mercs etc. (primarily since merger/take over of Chrysler). It seeme the insecurities lie with you Lexus 'lovers'! . As to Lexus being 'perfect' you've only got to read the other postings on page 1 (adaptive damping failure, paintwork problems etc.) Need I go on :winky: ?

Any way it's nice to see a response!!

Cheers,

Dieter

[LexusEdinburgh]

(surely not patented by Toyota?)

I know how you need constant stimulation Deiter, so here is a link for you

Link one

[aido]

Just saw this and thought of this thread:

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,...tw=wn_tophead_1

[ColinBarber]

I've heard if you take a MKI Prius over 60mph the fuel consumption gets very bad.

[nickjwarman]

just read that thread..... suppose we won't know the facts until people actually start driving them.

If the cons out-weigh the pros, then i'll save myself the estimated £4k premium and just buy an rx300 sel.

[LexusEdinburgh]

A few personal views on a few posts

The RX400h will be significantly more powerful and economical that the RX300, why spend millions developing it otherwise?

We don’t know what the price will be, I think there will be a premium but I am sure it won’t be ‘priced out of the market’, that’s just not Lexus style.

Fuel consumption at speed- When traveling at higher speed it is the petrol engine that is working, so there will be no significant economic savings. At higher speeds you will get benefit from the regenerative braking but none immediately from the electric engines.

[LennyLexus]

so Ian what are saying is 'they would make great pimp mobiles for cruising around town in, but not much difference to the rep who does 50'000 miles a year'?

[nickjwarman]

since my last reply, i decided it was reseach time - I checked out the prius forum and found this link:

http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=1354

Prius is the rx400h's closest relative so it makes sense to see what the mk2 can do.

Of course Ian is right, more power plus more investment should equal a fantastic car.

It will come with trade offs though, like not being able to manually change the gear you are in. That was definitley a bonus in the rx300.

I'll be thoroughly inspecting the 400 at the motorshow!!!

[DieterML]

Hi all,

So, is the 20% improvement in fuel efficiency quoted by Mercedes more realistic than that implied by Lexus? We'll just have to wait and see :winky:

Whatever that outcome the rx400h is/(will be) a revolutionary product and Lexus deserves to succeed with it.

Still don't really like its 'looks' (especially front end) though ?

Cheers,

Dieter

PS Ian, I was very reluctant to access your "link" but I did.

[dazzab69]

Apparently the Fire Brigade have a bit of a problem with Hybrids !

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