GS300 to RX450H or GS450H???

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

4RX....does that = Mk4 RX?

Nice car, especially specc'd up with Graphite paint and rose interior.  I prefer that interior to the old saddle-tan which just looked a bit too garish.

Yep im still looking but struggling to find one in the right spec and colour combo.  

Might have to wait until March when they start offloading stock to make way for the new plate

[Glover]

Thanks GSLV6; glad it was helpful.  My RX is June 2012 pre facelift Advance in Mercury Grey, ivory leather with front and rear under-runs but Premium i.e. 12 speaker rather than ML ICE’ and no roof rails.  I've read mixed reviews on the ML; it sounds like it's very good but perhaps not a deal breaker as some reckon the 12 speaker Pioneer gives a better sound.  I'm not an audiophile so can't comment but the 12 speaker sounds good to me!

Carl  I know exactly what you mean about the electric windows and it was picked up in a review.  I'm constantly amazed everything is just so well made and its also a very cosseting place to be.  I had a comment the other day that it was like sitting in a comfortable lounge!  It puts a smile on my face every time I get in it. 

[Carl911]

28 minutes ago, Glover said:

Thanks GSLV6; glad it was helpful.  My RX is June 2012 pre facelift Advance in Mercury Grey, ivory leather with front and rear under-runs but Premium i.e. 12 speaker rather than ML ICE’ and no roof rails.  I've read mixed reviews on the ML; it sounds like it's very good but perhaps not a deal breaker as some reckon the 12 speaker Pioneer gives a better sound.  I'm not an audiophile so can't comment but the 12 speaker sounds good to me!

Carl  I know exactly what you mean about the electric windows and it was picked up in a review.  I'm constantly amazed everything is just so well made and its also a very cosseting place to be.  I had a comment the other day that it was like sitting in a comfortable lounge!  It puts a smile on my face every time I get in it. 

Lol,  long as it's not just me.

whilst on my the subject of SE-L with ML stereo I must admit I had a similar dilema. My GS is the SE but come with most the extras including the Mark Levinson. I personally think the ML has the edge and it's just that bit more accurate , not muddling the bass with the treble and keeping the music much closer to how it was intended. That said, I also have the 12 speaker premium system which includes the sub in the boot and it's still a pretty solid performer. 

I was finding that all the SE-L models that come up within my price range were always much higher mileage and the Ones that were not fetched a £2000 premium on the price. From what I have read the air suspension sounds complex and expensive if it goes wrong so I wasn't too concerned about that. My main criteria was that it had to have at least the premium system as this gives you Bluetooth connection to your phone for music as well as phone. I also wanted the satnav. I did try the panoramic roof which I really love but I found the rear headroom severely reduced with it. Ultimately I found an RX that only had one owner from new, full Lexus service history and in almost perfect condition inside and out. Even the driver lumbar on the seat is hardly worn which seems to be a common issue even on vehicles less that four years old. My particular RX also only had 39,000 miles from new so very low for a 59 plate. 

Again, the colour I chose wasn't my first choice but one has to weigh the overal package when buying.

i have no regrets so far.

carl

[Glover]

Totally agree Carl except for the comments about the sound system and that's not because you're wrong it's just far too technical for me! 

I wanted a light interior and sunroof; getting the navigation package, Bluetooth, under-runs, 19 inch alloys and what I think is a great colour was just a bonus.  Mine was also low mileage; just under 25,000 on a 12plate. A bit more than I'd originally intended to pay but glad I did it.

[Carl911]

22 minutes ago, Glover said:

Totally agree Carl except for the comments about the sound system and that's not because you're wrong it's just far too technical for me! 

I wanted a light interior and sunroof; getting the navigation package, Bluetooth, under-runs, 19 inch alloys and what I think is a great colour was just a bonus.  Mine was also low mileage; just under 25,000 on a 12plate. A bit more than I'd originally intended to pay but glad I did it.

I must admit I do like the under runs. There are a few on eBay for sale I noticed, from Lexus dealership. Think they were something like £700 for both so quite an e pensive plastic trim.

[Glover]

£700? I'd want titanium for that:-)

[GSLV6]

Crikey...£700 for plastic trims?!!!!  I've just asked for a price on them from Lexus for a used RX but wont be bothering at that price. I'll have some made up instead from Ali sheet.

As far as the ICE goes, I am an audio engineer by profession and design loudspeakers amongst other things. The ML system is just the sum of the parts, including design effort specific to the RX space acoustically, so best not get too drawn into brand names as its meaningless.  Spec is what matters and the design and its implementation.  If the Premium sound system uses the same loudspeakers as the ML one, then the differences are just down to the software (surround processing), connectivity and amplification specifications.  Providing that the loudspeakers are the same (and the price difference suggests that they may be) then the Premium system is probably as well specified as the ML one.  The DAB, from an audio stand point, is vastly inferior to FM in broadcast quality (dynamic range through audio compression plus very poor sampling/playback specs). FM every time.  DAB is partially hamstrung by bandwidth limitations too.  Why the retrograde step, I don't know unless Lexus genuinely do not employ any audio specialists, but we know that they do, so that leaves perception and convenience....marketing BS about DAB.

Looks like I'll compromise on colour too, but I wont take white.  I prefer black but would  settle for silver.  I thought that on the F-Sport, Nav package was standard along with HUD....at least I'm counting on that!

 

 

[steveledzep]

42 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

The ML system is just the sum of the parts, including design effort specific to the RX space acoustically, so best not get too drawn into brand names as its meaningless.

I agree, I had ML on my previous IS250 and I don't discern a difference in my current 11 speaker set-up.

 

I'm not an audio engineer, but a discerning audiophile hifi nerd and in my opinion the noisy (relative to the home) and awkward shaped environment doesn't lend itself to top audio performance.  I personally wouldn't pay extra for ML, especially when a 12 speaker system with subwoofer (Pioneer I believe) is available.

[GSLV6]

I'm also a fellow "discerning audio hifi nerd" Steve....a dying breed in today's convenience market .  Sadly, I can't fit my own 'speakers to the RX as each one is 10 1/2 stone and a little too large to get 'em in!

I'd be more than happy with the 12 speaker system I think.  The audio isn't a deal breaker in any car for me.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

Great write up Geoff.  My wife and I have looked at several now, test driven a couple and have decided to make the investment. We've been looking a while and would like buy Lexus approved for peace of mind.  Our local Listers dealer has only 3 in stock that tick the boxes, one just sold!  The other isn't the colour I want (I would like metallic pearl White Or Celestial metallic black) and as we're buying used, we want to hold out for the Mark Levinson Option too, and preferably the design pack with front/rear sump guards and roof rails, but it narrows down choices a lot as there aren't many available.  We'll hang on for a bit as I don't want to buy something only to see the open we wanted appear a week or two later!

Don't worry to much about the roof rails and under runs runs i fitted them to my Advance model after purchase and its not that difficult.I got the genuine rails from Lexus Birmingham for £179 and i got the rear under run from Lexus for £100 which was a bargain.

 

[DanD]

16 hours ago, Glover said:

Carl  I know exactly what you mean about the electric windows and it was picked up in a review. 

Have you noticed that the windows are laminated (if you feel the top edge of the glass you will noticed that there are in fact two layers) for better noise insulation, and coated with a water repellent?

[GSLV6]

6 hours ago, Eame64 said:

Don't worry to much about the roof rails and under runs runs i fitted them to my Advance model after purchase and its not that difficult.I got the genuine rails from Lexus Birmingham for £179 and i got the rear under run from Lexus for £100 which was a bargain.

 

Thanks for the tip Eamonn.  I may just ask for a price for the bits in that case

[Glover]

Like Eamonn I can definitely recommend Lexus Birmingham; great prices and brilliant service.  I bought rubber mats (cabin and boot) plus the rear bumper protector considerably cheaper than the dealer 'cost price' that I was quoted by the salesman when I bought the car!  And the Lexus Birmingham price was far cheaper even including delivery!!!!  In effect I got the bumper protector free with the Lexus Birmingham price. 

On the subject of cheap genuine parts if anybody happens to have a Honda in their family try www.coxmotorparts.co.uk.  They also have great prices and service.

[GSLV6]

Thanks Geoff.  It will be interesting now that I know that to see what I am quoted 

I have settled on a 2014 RX, low miles in satin silver.  Hoping to do a deal shortly on it.  ML comes with it but other than that it is standard F-Sport spec.

[Glover]

Brilliant Christmas present! 

Maybe it will take the place of Rudolph when it's delivered?  If Santa switches to EV mode you'll never hear him parking it up. 

Sorry about the early Christmas cheer; somebody had to do it! 

[GSLV6]

It won't be in time for Christmas I suspect but hopefully next month.  I don't have much time to sell my (minty low miles) GS300 and would rather it went private that hand it to a dealer to make another 3K on it, so will put it up cheap at £6K and see if I have any takers.

[GSLV6]

I wonder if anyone has experience of Avon Tyres in the 235/55 R19 101v rating (Avon RX7s)? I see that the car I'm after has the standard Dunlops fitted (in this case I believe they are Dunlop sport rather than the 65 profile 270s).  The Avons are cheaper, have an "A" wet weather rating and are also 69db rated.  They seem good for the money if they're a compound that lasts the distance.  Currently on offer for £137 fitted per corner.

[rayaans]

12 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

I wonder if anyone has experience of Avon tyres in the 235/55 R19 101v rating (Avon RX7s)? I see that the car I'm after has the standard Dunlops fitted (in this case I believe they are Dunlop sport rather than the 65 profile 270s).  The Avons are cheaper, have an "A" wet weather rating and are also 69db rated.  They seem good for the money if they're a compound that lasts the distance.  Currently on offer for £137 fitted per corner.

The original spec Dunlop's are dunlop sport 270 in 235/55 r19. 

I changed to michelin latitude tour hp as they are widely used in the states on the RX and they rave about them. I can see why as they are practically perfect. 

I think I got them for £123 each and £50 for fitting. I believe they might have gone up in price since then however

[GSLV6]

Thanks Rayaan

I have looked at those but the price has gone up pretty significantly.  I'm in no rush to change the original Dunlops unless they perform poorly in the wet but after my test drive wouldn't replace them like for like as the tyre noise, we thought was intrusive.  I run my GS on Davanti tyres which have been superb.  Great in the wet and nice and silent too.  We have them fitted to our VRS and they are great o that too. 

[ISJason]

Hi GSL.. I was just asking if you have in fact bought your new

RX? I couldn't see any update on the thread. All the best.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GSLV6]

HI Ja, no not yet. Truth is, we've put it on hold because of membership of this forum.  It's a lot of money at over £30K and the more we read, the more unresolved reliability and running cost issues Lexus seem to have. We're reconsidering a low miles used E-Class and are weighing up the pros and cons of each model still.  Having posted over on the GS side of the forum, you'll appreciate where we're coming from given the issues that we've suffered with Lexus, so I won't be handing over £30K until such time as I'm sure it's the smart move.  It's simply too large an investment.  Having test driven other vehicles, the RX doesn't handle, go, stop or drive as well as an E Class, costs more, has less kit as standard, and less load space.  I found the RX more comfortable though and prefer the higher driving position.

Forums are interesting places to spend some time around as you'll pick up many years of feedback from people with no axes to grind and get honesty, not becoming of dealerships.  The decision so far has been GS450H = "forget it!" and RX450H = "definite maybe".   I want to be sure that the paintwork issues, some of the rust issues, suspension and engine issues that I've experienced with the GS will NOT be repeated on the RX. I want to do some more reading first.

We also considered the new F-Pace but load space is pitiful by comparison, the drive is noisier and fit and finish not as good.  The RX ticks a lot of boxes and I am test driving one particular 2 year old RX next week that I am interesting in buying, but am also still considering an E Class. The test drives plus owner's club feedback, plus the views of my local independent garage mechanic are all things which will heavily sway my decision.

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

HI Ja, no not yet. Truth is, we've put it on hold because of membership of this forum.  It's a lot of money at over £30K and the more we read, the more unresolved reliability and running cost issues Lexus seem to have. We're reconsidering a low miles used E-Class and are weighing up the pros and cons of each model still.  Having posted over on the GS side of the forum, you'll appreciate where we're coming from given the issues that we've suffered with Lexus, so I won't be handing over £30K until such time as I'm sure it's the smart move.  It's simply too large an investment.  Having test driven other vehicles, the RX doesn't handle, go, stop or drive as well as an E Class, costs more, has less kit as standard, and less load space.  I found the RX more comfortable though and prefer the higher driving position.

Forums are interesting places to spend some time around as you'll pick up many years of feedback from people with no axes to grind and get honesty, not becoming of dealerships.  The decision so far has been GS450H = "forget it!" and RX450H = "definite maybe".   I want to be sure that the paintwork issues, some of the rust issues, suspension and engine issues that I've experienced with the GS will NOT be repeated on the RX. I want to do some more reading first.

We also considered the new F-Pace but load space is pitiful by comparison, the drive is noisier and fit and finish not as good.  The RX ticks a lot of boxes and I am test driving one particular 2 year old RX next week that I am interesting in buying, but am also still considering an E Class. The test drives plus owner's club feedback, plus the views of my local independent garage mechanic are all things which will heavily sway my decision.

RX reliability is not an issue. Most owners have no problems, I certainly haven't.  

The Merc on the other hand, well it had issues even though my wife took better care of it than me for my RX. 

She had it serviced on the same day every year for 10 years and it still had problems. Have to say merc dealers are the worst ive come across as well. 

I'd strongly suggest taking a look at E class forums as there's plenty of issues including build quality problems, wheel corrosion etc.

Also, if considering an E class, I'd consider a GS450h F Sport. It's a real cracker at handling with its rear wheel steering and goes like stink as well. Lovely to drive, I'd have one if I didn't need the bigger boot no question. 

I'm not sure whether the E class has more kit as standard either. I'm pretty sure they don't come with HUD, laminated windows, privacy glass and the previous gen has fake leather if not opting for the real leather. Comes with Xenon headlights too, not LEDs and most don't have a reversing camera either

[GSLV6]

I won't be doing anything in haste Rayaan.  Our experience with Mercedes (we've owned two of those) has been largely positive, but it does depend very much on which model you buy. Some of their larger petrol models suffered from chocolate cam chain cogs in the past, requiring massive bills at relatively small mileages.  Early Bluemotions had injector issues, later E Class had suspension issues....as with all cars, they have issues.  However, the newer E Class has lifted them back up the JD Power survey for reliability and "Which" also rate them highly as do owners.  Cut it whatever way you like, but they're really very good motor cars and better than most.

The GS on the other hand, I have first hand experience with and after my experience over the past two years with one, will never buy another, especially after reading so many horror stories on here about various reliability issues such as shock absorbers being under-specified and prematurely failing etc on much newer models.  Clearly Lexus haven't learned the lessons of the past in some cases, or more cynically haven't done anything about them.  That really decided the matter for me after joining this forum.

You can only speak as you find.  Both our Mercs were pretty bomb proof and probably the cheapest cars in terms of whole life running costs that we've ever owned.  The C class estate was very well built and nothing really went wrong.  The engine was a complete peach, that 2.1 diesel lump being so over engineered and reliable it ranks as one of the best diesels ever built.  It was better finished than the GS, the wheel lacquer wasn't obtained from the local joke shop and it looked as fresh as the day we bought it, many years later when we sold it.  Being the AMG sport version (a revelation at the time when released in terms of the suspension and brakes) that it handled like a sports car, it certainly bettered our BMW 3 series of the same vintage at the time. I remember a policeman saying that he preferred that model to the Range Rovers they also had as in his own words "you can run into any corner a bit faster than you perhaps should of done, and in the Merc, you know you'll come out pointing the right way and that's why we like them" (speaking of the Aventgarde Sport (AMG tuned suspension) model).

I don't believe that any car, irrespective of what it is, doesn't have issues.  Nothing is perfect.  What matters is how a manufacturer responds to those issues when they become widely known, signifying that a problem exists that ought to be dealt with properly.  Lexus have failed to do this with the GS suspension up until this year at any rate.  They failed to address the wheel lacquer issue for years, and still refuse to admit that the lacquer was improperly chosen for the salt laden British winters.  Earlier 450's were no better, and my own 300 ....well I have the receipts for the work done sat right here.  Never again.  I wouldn't touch a GS F-Sport.  Way too impractical, silly small boot space and the one I drove I didn't find that comfortable as the seats were too firm as was the suspension.  If I wanted a true sporty drive, I'd buy another car like a similarly priced used Porsche.  Lexus aren't sports cars despite the tags, and I've owned sports cars which are not all about straight line speed but the package as a whole.  Lexus are too heavy and the handling cannot match the "sports"  label.  The LFA was an exception and a damned good one.  I consider the GS more a car to appeal to 40 something execs who want something peppy to drive on their daily commutes, not a practical family proposition, which is where the RX comes in. With my spinal and hip injuries and resulting daily pain, I now need something more comfortable than a sports car anyway.

You're right about Merc dealerships (and BMW come to that).  I gave up on ours and had it serviced at a local independent who looked after us well.  We've been using him for 10 years.  He deals with our Skoda presently.   I'd rather pass the trade to him than a faceless organisation making twice the profits.  However, a car as complex as the RX may force us to remain with the Lexus dealership but they have been very good with us so far.  

As I said, I won't be buying in haste. The RX appeals and I have my 3rd test drive next week, this time of a model that I requested was delivered to our local dealership for us to look at.  I'll be doing a little more research first and also checking out a really superb E Class estate going for similar money. Only when we've completed our research and looked at both will we make our minds up.  I do appreciate your input Rayaans though as clearly you and other contributors have feedback based on experience which we value.  People might think this all OTT and just "buy the thing already" but there remains over 30 thousand good reasons why I won't be doing that in a hurry.

[Carl911]

1 hour ago, GSLV6 said:

I won't be doing anything in haste Rayaan.  Our experience with Mercedes (we've owned two of those) has been largely positive, but it does depend very much on which model you buy. Some of their larger petrol models suffered from chocolate cam chain cogs in the past, requiring massive bills at relatively small mileages.  Early Bluemotions had injector issues, later E Class had suspension issues....as with all cars, they have issues.  However, the newer E Class has lifted them back up the JD Power survey for reliability and "Which" also rate them highly as do owners.  Cut it whatever way you like, but they're really very good motor cars and better than most.

The GS on the other hand, I have first hand experience with and after my experience over the past two years with one, will never buy another, especially after reading so many horror stories on here about various reliability issues such as shock absorbers being under-specified and prematurely failing etc on much newer models.  Clearly Lexus haven't learned the lessons of the past in some cases, or more cynically haven't done anything about them.  That really decided the matter for me after joining this forum.

You can only speak as you find.  Both our Mercs were pretty bomb proof and probably the cheapest cars in terms of whole life running costs that we've ever owned.  The C class estate was very well built and nothing really went wrong.  The engine was a complete peach, that 2.1 diesel lump being so over engineered and reliable it ranks as one of the best diesels ever built.  It was better finished than the GS, the wheel lacquer wasn't obtained from the local joke shop and it looked as fresh as the day we bought it, many years later when we sold it.  Being the AMG sport version (a revelation at the time when released in terms of the suspension and brakes) that it handled like a sports car, it certainly bettered our BMW 3 series of the same vintage at the time. I remember a policeman saying that he preferred that model to the Range Rovers they also had as in his own words "you can run into any corner a bit faster than you perhaps should of done, and in the Merc, you know you'll come out pointing the right way and that's why we like them" (speaking of the Aventgarde Sport (AMG tuned suspension) model).

I don't believe that any car, irrespective of what it is, doesn't have issues.  Nothing is perfect.  What matters is how a manufacturer responds to those issues when they become widely known, signifying that a problem exists that ought to be dealt with properly.  Lexus have failed to do this with the GS suspension up until this year at any rate.  They failed to address the wheel lacquer issue for years, and still refuse to admit that the lacquer was improperly chosen for the salt laden British winters.  Earlier 450's were no better, and my own 300 ....well I have the receipts for the work done sat right here.  Never again.  I wouldn't touch a GS F-Sport.  Way too impractical, silly small boot space and the one I drove I didn't find that comfortable as the seats were too firm as was the suspension.  If I wanted a true sporty drive, I'd buy another car like a similarly priced used Porsche.  Lexus aren't sports cars despite the tags, and I've owned sports cars which are not all about straight line speed but the package as a whole.  Lexus are too heavy and the handling cannot match the "sports"  label.  The LFA was an exception and a damned good one.  I consider the GS more a car to appeal to 40 something execs who want something peppy to drive on their daily commutes, not a practical family proposition, which is where the RX comes in. With my spinal and hip injuries and resulting daily pain, I now need something more comfortable than a sports car anyway.

You're right about Merc dealerships (and BMW come to that).  I gave up on ours and had it serviced at a local independent who looked after us well.  We've been using him for 10 years.  He deals with our Skoda presently.   I'd rather pass the trade to him than a faceless organisation making twice the profits.  However, a car as complex as the RX may force us to remain with the Lexus dealership but they have been very good with us so far.  

As I said, I won't be buying in haste. The RX appeals and I have my 3rd test drive next week, this time of a model that I requested was delivered to our local dealership for us to look at.  I'll be doing a little more research first and also checking out a really superb E Class estate going for similar money. Only when we've completed our research and looked at both will we make our minds up.  I do appreciate your input Rayaans though as clearly you and other contributors have feedback based on experience which we value.  People might think this all OTT and just "buy the thing already" but there remains over 30 thousand good reasons why I won't be doing that in a hurry.

I know what you mean regarding the money. I payed under 20k for mine and I felt even that was a huge outlay and you certainly expect a reliable car for that sort of money.  Sadly it does seem that with ever increasing amounts of technology built into all modern cars these days that it's more likely that some faults will arise.  It then comes down to how well the garages deal with that problem and how quickly. 

I would certainly agree that the lexus have had some issues but as always forums attend to only focus on the problems hence why they are there in the first place.

in the scheme of things they are amoungst the most reliable vehicles as they have been for a number of years. 

The other point is that most of the reported issues if they occur at all, do attend to occur on higher mileage vehicles. If you are spending 30k I imagine his will have lower mileage and comfortably place you out of this low risk.

that aside the lexus warranty is, if nothing else one of the best I have ever experienced of any main dealership. Despite some of the occasional in consistencies between dealerships I have found mine to be invaluable.

ultimately you probably go with your gut feeling in what suits you best and I usually know that after a decent drive with most cars although I have to say that with the RX, it takes a bit longer to really start to appreciate it for what it is. 

Hope which ever you opt for you are very happy with, as spending that sort of money it has to be right not just on the test drive but for many years to come.

carl

[GSLV6]

Thanks Carl.  Yes, spot on.  The only difference of opinion is that the problems that I have encountered with the GS started at under 60K miles, which is no miles at all for a modern motor vehicle, yet my C Class went to over twice that without a hiccup.

The other thing we have to be careful of, forum reports to one side for the moment, is to watch what we take from vehicle surveys.  If you read the Which Survey for 2016, then read the Auto Express Survey, then the JD Power Survey, you get very different results for each based on the same year!.  The JD has Skoda first place overall for the fewest faults reported across the range (problems per 100 vehicles) and has the Merc E Class ranked first for the large/luxury car segment.  Go to the Auto express survey and Lexus take the 5 top spots with Merc ranked a fair bit lower down.  Which rates Lexus quite highly but also rates Merc E class quite highly.

So what are we to believe?  Well, some information is taken from owner's own feedback irrespective of mileage or ownership period, so voting can be skewed if say an owner votes having only owned a car for a week, and that result ends up as part of the 2016 survey.  You have to scratch beneath the surface to see how these surveys are conducted then take what you want from them.  I like the Which Reports, and JD doesn't appear to cover all marques which leads me to be suspicious about their agendas and motivation (ie is money involved here?).  Auto express and Which also have similar agreements on vehicles such as Lexus, Toyota and Subaru.  That lends some peer review-type consensus which aids confidence.  Taken on that alone,  the RX does well in reliability scores and I have no reason to doubt that an RX would be anything other than pretty reliable at a few years old.

Close scrutiny is still demanded though when discussing such large sums of money, as due diligence is something to be ignored at one's peril.  I am risk averse by nature having learned from experience and having more than a smattering of mechanical and engineering know how.  For me, it boils down to what a manufacturer is willing to demonstrate to win their share of my savings.  Have they responded well and appropriately to customer concerns, have they learned lessons and applied solutions and above all, have they demonstrated care in customer service and standards?  If the answer to any of those questions is "no!" year in year out then they will not have a penny of my money.  Modern cars, as you say, are really no more reliable than cars of a decade ago, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that vehicles made between 2000 and 2007 remain as some of the most reliable of all time, since when increased emissions legislation has led to ever more complex controls as a fix to aging (yet reliable) designs.  Smaller engines for most modern makes are shorter lived (our Indy says that many a 3 cyl petrol is scrap at 80K miles) and the industry is one of consumerism chasing repeat sales for the latest and greatest, at vast expense of carbon footprint for encouraging everyone to change cars so often.  This is a frankly ridiculous juxtaposition of the green credentials insisted on by EU legislation yet they turn a blind eye to whole life reliability and longevity as it suits their member state car makers profits (= job security).  I see through that absurd position now, so am looking for a vehicle that I can buy at a few years old and run into the ground.  I have no wish to keep changing vehicles.  For me, this means a larger capacity lazy and relatively efficient engine, not a diesel (particulates and strangulation with bolt on PDFs plus incumbent reliability issues this now brings) so the RX seems to tick lost of boxes.  The E class still appeals but I suspect that it will be hard for me to get my head around the modern diesel longer term issues and the issue of particulates.  I won't stop me looking though as the boxes have to be checked.

That hopefully sets out my thinking a little more detail.