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25 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Just to be clear - I am not disagreeing with you on this one, but are you saying they have decided to phase out IS back in 2014? or you saying they made that decision this year, in which case it would mean we would still get IS mk4 and it will be phased out ~ 2024 without getting facelift (as mk3 won't last another 6 years, considering standard 8 year model life-time)?

Saying neither as i dont know dont work with lexus product development so i dont know their plan

But i would not be surprised if the IS will be phased out as well.

if the ES will be priced just above hmmm...

By the way i dont think the ES will sell in numbers outside of the states

 

 

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Yes but I dont think they have any reason to remove the IS

The GS was purely down to sales. The IS is a good seller, both in Europe and the States so unlikely they would remove it.

 

Engineering and platform sharing. Having just one small longitudinal engine rear drive car means a whole lot more cost than spinning two off the same transverse/front drive ones already in the Toyota family. If they were continuing with the GS I’d have more hope as the engines/gearboxes and certain suspension components unique for longitudinal engines could be shared for the IS and RC as we know it.

 

Look at the Volvo range. One modular range of engines and transmissions designed for transverse mounting and two platforms to spin off a large range of cars that are sold world wide. That, sadly, is the way of the future.

 

 

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As I'm a bargain barge hunter when it comes to buying cars lets hope this is a sales flop so in a about 6 years time I can own one 😛

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As I'm a bargain barge hunter when it comes to buying cars lets hope this is a sales flop so in a about 6 years time I can own one


The less new cars that are sold means less used ones as a few get crashed along the way.

There’s oodles of 520d bmw for sale but under 20 2.5 gs250. If you want an IS200t in a few years that’ll be even harder


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On 6/14/2018 at 9:02 PM, rayaans said:

The review I posted above, he did actually say the 300h has more useable low down power but feels less dynamic due to extra weight than the 350. 

However, I agree that a more powerful unit would be welcome. I really do think an ES-F will be on the cards with AWD 

Be cool if there be a ES-F AWD !!!! I really do wish there be a more powerful hybrid, I mean what are they going to do with GS450h owners that may wanna stay with Lexus ?? I for one want a upgrade in power for my next Lexus and preferably a hybrid. + there won't be a GS replacement so existing American / Asian GS450h owners......

11 hours ago, rayaans said:

Yes but I dont think they have any reason to remove the IS

The GS was purely down to sales. The IS is a good seller, both in Europe and the States so unlikely they would remove it.

Yes the GS was down to sales, the ES sells much more than GS even in Asia the GS isn't very popular. I always thought Lexus had Europe in mind when they designed / brought out the first generation IS, suggested it was designed to suit European markets more than other places, even though it was sold in USA / Aus / Asia and Japan (As Altezza) somehow the second and third gen they focused on America more (maybe just me thinking this !!)

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31 minutes ago, ghost_killer said:

I mean what are they going to do with GS450h owners that may wanna stay with Lexus ??

I don't even need to look that far - I am IS250 owner and I want to stay with Lexus, but I struggle to find something suitable. My only issue with my current IS250 is that it is tad slow, I need car which is little bit faster ~IS350 range and Lexus gives me no option, either go for even slower IS300h or unicorn rattle IS200t, or all the way to RC-F and GS-F. 

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There is a 3.0l turbo on the way but whether it makes it to the UK remains to be seen

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I don't even need to look that far - I am IS250 owner and I want to stay with Lexus, but I struggle to find something suitable. My only issue with my current IS250 is that it is tad slow, I need car which is little bit faster ~IS350 range and Lexus gives me no option, either go for even slower IS300h or unicorn rattle IS200t, or all the way to RC-F and GS-F. 


IS200t ok it won’t be as smooth as your 250 but faster. 240bhp is a decent amount of power. It can’t be that unrefined surely.


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There is a 3.0l turbo on the way but whether it makes it to the UK remains to be seen


I doubt it will. Lexus and Toyota uk are hell bent on pursuing hybrids at the expense of a more diverse and traditional offering.

The engine is probably for the next supra and that’ll be it but it would be a great fit for the IS, RC, NX/RX and LS and GS if they were going to continue making those.


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3 hours ago, st4 said:

IS200t ok it won’t be as smooth as your 250 but faster. 240bhp is a decent amount of power. It can’t be that unrefined surely.

 

I have tried it.... but here we are at risk of starting whole new Armageddon...

It is faster, but "just"... gear changes are quicker, but it never seems to find the right one and it sounds pathetic, there is as well flat spot on power in low rpm. If you just cruising then yes.. there are no difference, but if you rev it or launch it from stand still and compare it like for like then it is terrible. Is IS200t 2014 better car then IS250 2008 ~ yes in some aspects, is it worth me paying £18k versus £4-6k for IS250 - no never, because value you get is just barely better (and that it is ignoring the fact the car is 6 years newer, so should be significantly better) and the price you pay is over 3 times higher.

In short for me IS200t is not an option - it is not sufficiently faster, not sufficiently better equipped, significantly less refined and significantly more expensive.

Even if we say they cost the same mk2 IS250 and mk3 IS200t, I would actually choose mk2 IS250. Further I would probably take mk2 IS250 over mk3 IS250 as well, but that is more complex to justify. When I say I want more power, I don't mean I am willing to compromise on other values which I associate with Lexus e.g. refinement. So for example IS350 fits the bill perfectly, it is just as refined (tad front heavy), but it is significantly faster - yet is not IS-F, so it is still somewhat practical.. you can still use it as daily driver without much of the issues.

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5 hours ago, st4 said:

 


I doubt it will. Lexus and Toyota uk are hell bent on pursuing hybrids at the expense of a more diverse and traditional offering.

The engine is probably for the next supra and that’ll be it but it would be a great fit for the IS, RC, NX/RX and LS and GS if they were going to continue making those.


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It would certainly be a good option because the new VED structure means there is no benefit to a hybrid bar fuel economy if over £40k. 

If they introduce a 300t especially for the NX and RXto begin with, price it £3k below the hybrids and I can't see why it won't sell. 

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It would certainly be a good option because the new VED structure means there is no benefit to a hybrid bar fuel economy if over £40k. 
If they introduce a 300t especially for the NX and RXto begin with, price it £3k below the hybrids and I can't see why it won't sell. 


And to the IS. I think it would be epic


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41 minutes ago, st4 said:

 


And to the IS. I think it would be epic


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The IS is crying out for a more powerful engine, to atleast make it a viable alternative to the 340i and similiar

However, with Lexus being a niche player in the UK, its quite unlikely, unless the head of Lexus Europe decides to become a petrolhead

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4 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I have tried it.... but here we are at risk of starting whole new Armageddon...

It is faster, but "just"... gear changes are quicker, but it never seems to find the right one and it sounds pathetic, there is as well flat spot on power in low rpm. If you just cruising then yes.. there are no difference, but if you rev it or launch it from stand still and compare it like for like then it is terrible. Is IS200t 2014 better car then IS250 2008 ~ yes in some aspects, is it worth me paying £18k versus £4-6k for IS250 - no never, because value you get is just barely better (and that it is ignoring the fact the car is 6 years newer, so should be significantly better) and the price you pay is over 3 times higher.

In short for me IS200t is not an option - it is not sufficiently faster, not sufficiently better equipped, significantly less refined and significantly more expensive.

Even if we say they cost the same mk2 IS250 and mk3 IS200t, I would actually choose mk2 IS250. Further I would probably take mk2 IS250 over mk3 IS250 as well, but that is more complex to justify. When I say I want more power, I don't mean I am willing to compromise on other values which I associate with Lexus e.g. refinement. So for example IS350 fits the bill perfectly, it is just as refined (tad front heavy), but it is significantly faster - yet is not IS-F, so it is still somewhat practical.. you can still use it as daily driver without much of the issues.

How about an 130i manual. 320 horses straight six and they are up for grabs. If youre driving it you dont see the outside so dies this tick your box?

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The IS is crying out for a more powerful engine, to atleast make it a viable alternative to the 340i and similiar
However, with Lexus being a niche player in the UK, its quite unlikely, unless the head of Lexus Europe decides to become a petrolhead

I agree and the GS needed a bigger engine between the 250 and F.

The 350 would have been ideal. The good news is the new Toyota chief is a total car nut but the marketing boys have pedalled the hybrid thing beyond the point of now return. I think there’s room for both, but Lexus are an American and Asian predominantly uptaken range. The UK and EU aren’t big markets for them.


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I don't own a GS, but have a 300h Premier as a loan car while I await delivery of my new NX on Wednesday. It's a car I've had on three occasions now, and I love it.

I find it quite quick enough for normal and spirited driving, and I guess it will be perfectly fine for 99% of drivers. The interior is a thing of beauty. The standard equipment is fantastic. The ride is smooth, and progress is quiet and civilised.

The motoring media are biased in favour of German marques. Yes, that's an opinion, but having owned and driven many different cars over the years, it is my conclusion. The Audi A6 and BMW 5 Series aren't as good as this as far as I'm concerned. On a side note, I consider the IS to be at least as good as a 3 Series and better than an A4.

'But what of the awful CVT gearboxes?' I hear the media cry. Well, driven by a normal human being rather than a boy racer journalist moron, they are just fine. Smooth and economical, and far better than the unreliable and jerky DSG offerings so beloved by people who should know better.

I can't own a saloon car long term due to mobility issues. If I could, I'd have one of the last GS models like a shot. I think it's a real pity that more people don't trust themselves to make a decision rather than following - and believing - the herd. I hope the ES is as good. Even as a non-owner I'm sad to see the GS go before more people have had the chance to try it.

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I've a GS premier and can safely say it's the best car I've owned. I really look forward to driving it especially on long journeys. Always a pleasure to be in and always get out feeling relaxed.

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I've a GS premier and can safely say it's the best car I've owned. I really look forward to driving it especially on long journeys. Always a pleasure to be in and always get out feeling relaxed.

 

I just have the SE and reckon it’s the best car I’ve had.

 

It rides better than my old E class Merc, the seats are as comfortable as the ones in my old Volvo S80 and it corners better than my old C class. The “chassis” or perhaps steering and suspension has been well designed and the quality of the shocks and springs shine through.

 

The kit level is off the charts.

 

Space wise it’s got more than the E class, refinement is in another level (being petrol helps).

 

The only thing that lets it down is the gearbox (the 8spd in the IS200T and LS460 and RCF/GSF would be the one) and the fact the headlights don’t turn the way they do in a Merc with ILS. I’d have loved a 350 or 460 GS with the 8spd box. I know it would be “the one” or even an F

 

A GSF might well be the best car that was briefly on sale in the Uk

 

 

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2 minutes ago, st4 said:

 

I just have the SE and reckon it’s the best car I’ve had.

 

It rides better than my old E class Merc, the seats are as comfortable as the ones in my old Volvo S80 and it corners better than my old C class. The “chassis” or perhaps steering and suspension has been well designed and the quality of the shocks and springs shine through.

 

The kit level is off the charts.

 

Space wise it’s got more than the E class, refinement is in another level (being petrol helps).

 

The only thing that lets it down is the gearbox (the 8spd in the IS200T and LS460 and RCF/GSF would be the one) and the fact the headlights don’t turn the way they do in a Merc with ILS.

 

A GSF might well be the best car that was briefly on sale.

 

 

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Interesting. I've had Volvo's before and thought they were the best seats but the GS beats it hands down. Must admit though that with 18 way adjustment it took me about 6 months to get it perfect. Am glad it's got memory! I'm well happy with the gearing and also the turning headlights. 

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I would agree that seats are an area where the GS (in Premier spec) reigns supreme. Will the ES Premier have 18-way adjustable seats? Will they be clad in lovely soft leather? Will there be a passenger seat electric ottoman? Surely these are far more important questions than mere trifles like engine size and performance! 

As an aside, I tried a new Prius Plug In yesterday. The ride quality was notably better than my GS - proper magic carpet stuff, without any of the roly-poly that blighted Priuses of old. If Lexus took that car, Lexusised the body but left it on 15" wheels, stuffed it full of soundproofing and gave it the full Premier luxury interior treatment to the quality of the current GS, I'd buy one in an instant. Of course, I'd be the only one - at least, perhaps, until others actually drove it and discovered the joy of abandoning stupid oversized wheels whilst relaxing into a driving style that doesn't involve thrashing as quickly as possible to the end of the next tailback.

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29 minutes ago, Ten Ninety said:

I would agree that seats are an area where the GS (in Premier spec) reigns supreme. Will the ES Premier have 18-way adjustable seats? Will they be clad in lovely soft leather? Will there be a passenger seat electric ottoman? Surely these are far more important questions than mere trifles like engine size and performance! 

As an aside, I tried a new Prius Plug In yesterday. The ride quality was notably better than my GS - proper magic carpet stuff, without any of the roly-poly that blighted Priuses of old. If Lexus took that car, Lexusised the body but left it on 15" wheels, stuffed it full of soundproofing and gave it the full Premier luxury interior treatment to the quality of the current GS, I'd buy one in an instant. Of course, I'd be the only one - at least, perhaps, until others actually drove it and discovered the joy of abandoning stupid oversized wheels whilst relaxing into a driving style that doesn't involve thrashing as quickly as possible to the end of the next tailback.

I couldn't agree more @Ten Ninety

The obsession with 'power' and rapid acceleration leaves me cold, especially when almost every modern car is entirely acceptable in this regard. Part of the joy for me on any journey is making things as stress free as possible. Why rush when you can waft?

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I would agree that seats are an area where the GS (in Premier spec) reigns supreme. Will the ES Premier have 18-way adjustable seats? Will they be clad in lovely soft leather? Will there be a passenger seat electric ottoman? Surely these are far more important questions than mere trifles like engine size and performance! 
As an aside, I tried a new Prius Plug In yesterday. The ride quality was notably better than my GS - proper magic carpet stuff, without any of the roly-poly that blighted Priuses of old. If Lexus took that car, Lexusised the body but left it on 15" wheels, stuffed it full of soundproofing and gave it the full Premier luxury interior treatment to the quality of the current GS, I'd buy one in an instant. Of course, I'd be the only one - at least, perhaps, until others actually drove it and discovered the joy of abandoning stupid oversized wheels whilst relaxing into a driving style that doesn't involve thrashing as quickly as possible to the end of the next tailback.


That bodes well for the next CT. I agree, smaller wheels all the way.

Much cheaper to replace tyres, slightly more efficient and much less road noise too. That really matters. The amount of extra tyre roar from a 20 inch wheel is considerable and could make long journeys more tiring.

In a wet climate narrower wheels are also safer.


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This topic has gone  all beige cardigan

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We deserve our say too!😉

 

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20 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

This topic has gone  all beige cardigan

^^ Indeed so. Civilised isn't it? Better than all that baseball cap, loud music, and inappropriate speed malarkey.

Youth is wasted on the young...

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