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2 hours ago, Chafford1 said:

Sales stopping in Europe is what I have read. Sadly no more GSFs. 

Yep productipn of euro models will stop. Will probably still be available in US

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But replaced for all markets by the front wheel drive ES early 2019 according to reports.

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Lexus UK has sent me a direct message on Twitter to confirm that GS production for Europe will fInish at the end of April.

 

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Even though the GS does not sell in big numbers in UK / Europe, discontinuation of the GS is to do with not selling well in North America, not to mention similar size ES being sold even before the GS was out back in the 90s, when I was in America I saw LOTS of ES's new old and not many GS's + you just need to look at the figures of the GS sold in USA vs ES sold in same time frame, think thats one of reasons that determined the fate !! Shame really. Wonder if there be a F model to replace GSF, surely atleast a F-sport, as I recall the current and last gen ES didn't even have a F-sport trim which I found odd seeing other Lexus's do or did

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15 hours ago, ghost_killer said:

Even though the GS does not sell in big numbers in UK / Europe, discontinuation of the GS is to do with not selling well in North America, not to mention similar size ES being sold even before the GS was out back in the 90s, when I was in America I saw LOTS of ES's new old and not many GS's + you just need to look at the figures of the GS sold in USA vs ES sold in same time frame, think thats one of reasons that determined the fate !! Shame really. Wonder if there be a F model to replace GSF, surely atleast a F-sport, as I recall the current and last gen ES didn't even have a F-sport trim which I found odd seeing other Lexus's do or did

Will almost certainly have an F-Sport model. 

No word on an ES-F but I presume Lexus would make it AWD if they went for it. Having said that, if they don't make an ES-F, it leaves the door open for the comeback of an IS-F for its next generation in 2020

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Had it confirmed by my local Lexus dealer today that they've stopped making the GS for the UK and it will be replaced by a fwd vehicle probably called ES. Apparently it will be announced in September.

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I commented on the number of GS-F on my dealer's forecourt, only to be told they're being discontinued and we've got some to sell ...

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lexus-es-2019.jpg?width=640

Should come to the UK with LED headlights across all but the lowest spec

Debut should be end of this month.

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That sounds like new least favorite Lexus for me and by quite a margin. FWD CT - not a big deal... but ES... especially considering what it is replacing :sick:  

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9 hours ago, rayaans said:

lexus-es-2019.jpg?width=640

Should come to the UK with LED headlights across all but the lowest spec

Debut should be end of this month.

I guess this is based on the latest Camry floorplan and drivetrains; it'll be interesting to see if they bring the 3.5 V6 but the 2.5 hybrid might be the only realistic option for the UK market.

And I fear the stupid UK motoring press will crucify it for being a "posh Camry" with FWD and CVT. Audi get away with FWD because of the unaccountable cache (and advertising revenue) the name has for them, but Lexus never will. It'll be a great car I'm sure for those who buy one, but those playing Top Trumps in the company car park will avoid it like the plague and go home in their BMWs and Mercedes.  

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The ES is based on the Avalon. Can’t see them bothering with the 3.5 at all in Europe

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There are a lot of lemmings about !!  None of them use their direction indicators !!  Rant over :wink1:

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15 minutes ago, gdh300 said:

And I fear the stupid UK motoring press will crucify it for being a "posh Camry" with FWD and CVT.

At least for once they going to be right... 

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Just now, Linas.P said:

At least for once they going to be right... 

I heard its not going to be based on a camry....

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3 minutes ago, rayaans said:

I heard its not going to be based on a camry....

Wow, is it a unique platform? Got to be FWD though, surely?

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7 minutes ago, rayaans said:

I heard its not going to be based on a camry....

No.. it is going to be based on Avalon - whohooo.. like it matters. FWD sucks - it is one thing to make compact FWD hatchback, completely different thing - full size "luxury" FWD saloon (or streamlined coupe... full size saloon). And maybe Audi can get "away" with that... FWD Audi still sucks... but to their defense you can always opt for Quattro. In Lexus case you will be able to opt for FWD or FWD.

For me this is almost like:

"UK press - Lexus makes boring uninspiring pimped-up Toyotas...

 Lexus Fans - you know nothing! 

 Lexus - maybe for once lets make some uninspiring boring pimped-up Toyota"

Anyway Lexus had an option. Make RWD ES and compete with CLS/BMW 6 Grand Coupe/Audi A7 or make junk FWD ES and compete with junk WV Passat CC/Arteon - yep we have Arteon competitor. 

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23 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

No.. it is going to be based on Avalon - whohooo.. like it matters. FWD sucks - it is one thing to make compact FWD hatchback, completely different thing - full size "luxury" FWD saloon (or streamlined coupe... full size saloon). And maybe Audi can get "away" with that... FWD Audi still sucks... but to their defense you can always opt for Quattro. In Lexus case you will be able to opt for FWD or FWD.

For me this is almost like:

"UK press - Lexus makes boring uninspiring pimped-up Toyotas...

 Lexus Fans - you know nothing! 

 Lexus - maybe for once lets make some uninspiring boring pimped-up Toyota"

Anyway Lexus had an option. Make RWD ES and compete with CLS/BMW 6 Grand Coupe/Audi A7 or make junk FWD ES and compete with junk WV Passat CC/Arteon - yep we have Arteon competitor. 

Its no problem if your knowledge about the motor industry is limited but it could be helpful not to write bizarre rants like above. Why slash a new Lexus that has not even been introduced or driven by anyone?   For info, Kia/Hyundai recently changed using the BMW 3 series as their benchmark for chassis /handling and guess what they now think is the number one car?  The  new Toyota Camry

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Why slash FWD car.. because it is FWD... It could have any badge and any features... If BMW would decide to make BMW 3-series a FWD - I would say the same thing - this is my least favorite BMW of all time (currently that title must be with 1-series). Simple question with simple answer - would I ever buy, consider or recommend FWD car - No! Never... if you feel no difference in driving pleasure behind the wheel in FWD and RWD, then you probably should use public transport - your are not car enthusiast... and I would probably would go as far as saying not a good driver, but that would be beyond the line of insult... Generally, I think people cannot be good at something they are not interested about and don't enjoy. 

But hey!... that is fine - not everyone are car enthusiasts and I am just little angry men writing bizarre rants in online forum - so why care. New Lexus ES FWD is my least favourite Lexus car ever made by far - does it matter? - No! it is just my opinion, which is neither better nor worse then anyone elses.

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1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Why slash FWD car.. because it is FWD... It could have any badge and any features... If BMW would decide to make BMW 3-series a FWD - I would say the same thing - this is my least favorite BMW of all time (currently that title must be with 1-series). Simple question with simple answer - would I ever buy, consider or recommend FWD car - No! Never... if you feel no difference in driving pleasure behind the wheel in FWD and RWD, then you probably should use public transport - your are not car enthusiast... and I would probably would go as far as saying not a good driver, but that would be beyond the line of insult... Generally, I think people cannot be good at something they are not interested about and don't enjoy. 

But hey!... that is fine - not everyone are car enthusiasts and I am just little angry men writing bizarre rants in online forum - so why care. New Lexus ES FWD is my least favourite Lexus car ever made by far - does it matter? - No! it is just my opinion, which is neither better nor worse then anyone elses.

Wow, that's pretty insulting. I'm guessing you must hate your IS with it's ABS, Traction Control and all the other electronic gizmos interfering with the driving pleasure?

Personally, I can tell the difference between driving a FWD and RWD drive car, but it's not the be all and end all of whether I enjoy driving a car or not. I have both at the moment and find driving pleasure in both for different reasons. I guess 40 years of reading about, watching programmes on, and driving as many different cars as I can get my hands on isn't enough to make me an enthusiast because I don't subscribe to your point of view. Fortunately, I'm happy to continue in my ignorance and I'll continue to enjoy finding cars that surprise me with how good they are, possibly even including the new ES. I'll let you know when I've driven it...

 

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That was a strange rant. I could understand if you drove say a Caterham or Lotus Elise.. The IS250 is a fine car but a dynamic drive it is not. I’ve driven several FWD cars which are better to drive

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Most people wouldn't know the difference and that is fine as most people don't spend most of the time on the limit. I love my GS because it is a beautiful well made car which is comfortable and does exactly what I want - a car which I can get out of after a long journey feeling fresh and relaxed. If I want to have a blast I drive my McLaren..........

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The talk is about RWD GS being replaced with FWD ES + GS has options of GS-F and GS450h, whereas (speculation at best) ES most likely to have engines more comparable to 300h. I can see upside only in the way that discontinuation of GS-F might make way for IS-F.

I don't understand what my ancient IS250 has to do with this the topic - did I compared it with new ES somewhere? As well, quality of the drive is very subjective - I am certain there are much faster FWD, more comfortable... yes, more compliant/better ride... likely.. Still, RWD behaves fundamentally different in the corners and for some (like me) that means FWD is inherently inferiour, but it is just my perspective of this matter.

 

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RWD vs FWD on public roads makes next to no difference in the corners. Better traction from a standstill and that’s only if you floor the throttle. It’s also strange new ES is your least favourite by far , we haven’t even seen it yet, or had specs confirmed or know how it drives or wether AWD will be an option.

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3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

No.. it is going to be based on Avalon - whohooo.. like it matters. FWD sucks - it is one thing to make compact FWD hatchback, completely different thing - full size "luxury" FWD saloon (or streamlined coupe... full size saloon). And maybe Audi can get "away" with that... FWD Audi still sucks... but to their defense you can always opt for Quattro. In Lexus case you will be able to opt for FWD or FWD.

For me this is almost like:

"UK press - Lexus makes boring uninspiring pimped-up Toyotas...

 Lexus Fans - you know nothing! 

 Lexus - maybe for once lets make some uninspiring boring pimped-up Toyota"

Anyway Lexus had an option. Make RWD ES and compete with CLS/BMW 6 Grand Coupe/Audi A7 or make junk FWD ES and compete with junk WV Passat CC/Arteon - yep we have Arteon competitor. 

1) nobody cares

2) you don't know that AWD won't be available

3) it's going to be priced as an Arteon competitor so let it compete with the Arteon. Besides, the Arteon is a stunning car - to look at and to drive

4) nobody cares.... oh did I say that again?

5) At 30mph FWD vs RWD is irrelevant. Even at 70mph on modern vehicles it doesn't really matter

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Yes indeed... same can be said to above - nobody cares.

Arteon is .. basically rebranded Passat CC. VW wanted to differentiate it from Passat and came-up with new name.. still basically the same car. That said I owned Passat CC and it was the worst car I ever had. A lot to do with 2.0t and FWD - each component making each other even worse. I am aware there was Passat CC 4Motion available, but that doesn't make my R-Line GT any less miserable. I probably don't need to explain difference between Audi and VW... and why Lexus should not even care (not talking compete) with VW.

As for AWD... Lexus did not have IS AWD, GS AWD ... why on earth you think they would somehow decide just now to introduce AWD with ES. I see no reason for that - in US yes indeed, not in EU/UK. That said I still prefer RWD over AWD... I had IS250 AWD and I disliked it, the only AWD car I liked (because it felt more like RWD) was BMW328Xi, MB 350 4-matic was ~ok, but I disliked it for other reasons. I do appreciate what AWD does and appreciate practical sides of it, but for driving pleasure it acts much more like FWD. That at least is the case for Lexus AWD and most Audi Quattro. 

29 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

RWD vs FWD on public roads makes next to no difference in the corners. Better traction from a standstill and that’s only if you floor the throttle. It’s also strange new ES is your least favourite by far , we haven’t even seen it yet, or had specs confirmed or know how it drives or wether AWD will be an option.

If you drive at 28MPH on 30MPH road.. then yes it doesn't. It is not strange, it is pretty much self explanatory - it is guaranteed to have FWD option - that is good reason to dislike. AWD option might be available (in US).. I would be very surprised to see it in EU/UK. But that helps with nothing - in mild British weather and city AWD only means higher fuel consumtion, no up-sides. Put that aside ES always was "very american car"... sort of "loaf on wheels style"... I hate this style. Check Toyota Avalon and previous generations ES - that is what I am talking about. So it is going to be from my perspective - ugly american version of Toyota Avalon with Lexus badge and FWD... Not much to like.

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