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46 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

the old GS  that was a very disappointing car ithat nobody bought 

I did (twice) and I love it!

 

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2 minutes ago, spacenase said:

I did (twice) and I love it!

 

 

2 minutes ago, spacenase said:

I did (twice) and I love it!

 

Well spacenase you belong to a very select club of connoiseurs that appreciate build quality understated elegance and anonymous styling. Hope the new one is your taste as well!

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Not quite so anonymous with the last facelift, but thank you. I'm looking forward to checking out the ES when it arrives.

 

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1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

I am really looking forward to the introduction of the new ES/GS  end of this month. It looks very promising indeed given the little bits of information that have been teased so far. What we know is that the car will be longer and lower than the old GS and is aimed directly at the 5 series/A6/E class. The design will trickle down from the LS and especially the interior is likely to set Lexus apart from the sombre BMW interior and the beautifully crafted but cold Audi ones. The Japanese Takumi craft could stand out and make it a special place to sit in. Apple car play or Android available? who knows! Then the chassis and underpinnings. If it is based on the new 2018 Camry it will be good news indeed as this car got raving reviews in the motoring press with top notch figures about roadholding, chassis control and cornering, in some reviews it is even placed above the BMW 3 series. So if Lexus can spray a little magic dust on this to give it that little oomph it could be a great car indeed! Drivetrains not confirmed yet but of course a 4 cylinder hybrid unit ( new version with new battery and more power?) and maybe an F-Sport with a twin turbo 6 pot pumping out 350 hp??  Who knows, but i cant wait as it seems a much more competitive package than the old GS  that was a very disappointing car ithat nobody bought ( a total salesflop tbh)  The king is dead bring on the new one! 

Almost every sentence is wrong based on "the little bits of information that have been teased so far.". Not based on Camry, based on loafy the loafy face - Avalon (must say suitable basis, because ES was loaf on wheels). Aimed nowhere near 5 series/A6/E class (though autocar clearly go it wrong) - it will be hilarious to see the FWD loafy take on the king of the large Saloons (the BMW 5). I mean GS failed it and GS was miles above contemporary ES, this thing has no chance. Yes it will be reasonable alternative for VW Arteon (do Lexus really need to fall that low to make sales?!). The remaining info just fantasies.. I like how you put "in some reviews" - yes in like 3 out of 700.. Yey! Oh but wait - it will not be based on Camry... NOooo! Twin turbo is as well nothing to be cheered about (though inevitable).

As said before - yes it will be cheapskate "GS", sell better, but worse cars overall.

Talking about sales flops - what about LS? - that was even more hopeless than GS - yet they keeping it? The reason I mentioned it, at least for me GS always was little bit too much for it's class... more limousine than large saloon. It almost feels better placed against BMW 7-series , whereas last LS literally had no place (good car tbh, but one would need to be mental to buy it from new). That is in my opinion why it didn't sell - too expensive, slow, big luxurious to take on BMW 5, but not marketed as limousine. Lexus overshot their mark with GS.

Anyways, I am sure this will work out terrible - they will downsize all the models to become pesky mainstream brand. Yes sales numbers will be nice on the spreadsheet - cars will be terrible. That is is accountant designing the cars without soul. 

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You're criticising someone for making assumptions yet that is all you have been making. Let's wait and see what actually materialises when it is released. This thread has annoyed me as up till now I've always found this forum a friendly place full of rational people who appreciate their lexuses. I love my GS and am sad to see it's demise but am looking forward to what comes next. I'll make my judgement once I've had the chance to drive it.

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You are right, so far it was all assumptions, from everyone - the reason I picked on duchie post is that (I quote): "What we know is that" - and then goes on telling it will be based on Camry which is clearly incorect and confirmed to be incorect. "Longer" is as well factually incorrect (at least based on what we "know"), because as far as we know car will be exactly same length. Then there are few assumptions which clearly makes no sense and assumptions would be fine, but don't forget it is "What we know is that" - so it is fact now. Finally, "old GS  that was a very disappointing car" is clearly just an opinion, but blended in with - "What we know is that" becomes  a bit offensive. When I say that something is disappointing - there are many ready to crucify me - so I am not any different in this aspect either.

Making topics hostile is my signature (sorry) - I just cannot stop when people try to defend indefensible and plays fanboy card - "aka this is Lexus forum, so we need to be positive about any **** Lexus throws at us". Not at all - I will always compliment when there is something good, but if it is not I will be pointing that out very clearly as well - sad reality that for several years now it is very little good coming out.

As for "wait and see" - I agree, but I am pretty confident I will be disappointed and right, and will be boasting about that "I was right all along". If not then as always I pretend I have never said anything like that... :devil2:

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Fair enough gov. I like to play devils advocate at times but was beginning to feel this thread was becoming too personal and vindictive. Don't worry, if it turns out to be good I'll remind you of your words! 😉

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It always does when you touch some die hard fans - must compliment Lexus for that, this sort of devotion is there to stay!

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Yes this is true, but as your default position is every Lexus except yours is crap, despite that you have probably never driven them or owned them then we can all take your rants for what they are. 

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Here you go for unnecessary assumption "your default position is", "you have probably never driven them" - that really leaves little credibility for further discussion with you.

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It’s not an assumption. I’ve seen your posts on other model forums. 

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I am sure you can back-up your words - "every Lexus except yours is crap", "never driven them". I am sure you know very well what I have driven and what not. From this point onward discussion cannot be more pointless. Good luck!

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Looks like Duchie is correct re dimensions. The Avalon, Camry and ES are all built on the same platform, which is pretty much the same size as the GS platform.  If people are quibbling over a couple of mm here or there that's ridiculous; to all intents and purposes the ES is the same size as the GS. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Avalon#XX40 for Avalon dimensions; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_GS#Technical_specifications for GS and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_ES.  The ES is slightly longer but has a shorter wheelbase and is 20mm narrower than the GS.  Does that really warrant the last response.  Please let's keep this forum, interesting, engaging, informative and above all civil.  And please feel free to say 'What we know is that'; I'm not offended in any way:wink3:

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27 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I am sure you can back-up your words - "every Lexus except yours is crap", "never driven them". I am sure you know very well what I have driven and what not. From this point onward discussion cannot be more pointless. Good luck!

So have you driven a current and new ES given you slate them so much? And in this thread alone you don’t like anything 300h, the GS and call the IS 200t a waste of time and an absolute disgrace...I mean you are entitled to your opinion but as you don’t like the GS or the ES I’m wondering why your even so bothered as to be ranting on this thread so much

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More contradictions then my head can handle:

17 minutes ago, Glover said:

Looks like Duchie is correct re dimensions. The Avalon, Camry and ES are all built on the same platform, which is pretty much the same size as the GS platform.  If people are quibbling over a couple of mm here or there that's ridiculous; to all intents and purposes the ES is the same size as the GS.

vs.

4 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

What we know is that the car will be longer and lower than the old GS..

... if anyone would point out, that I am trolling now that would be correct as well.

Note - you are comparing old ES, not the one which will be revealed, but I actually do understand what you are saying - the car might be few mm longer or shorter, or wider, but generally would be the same size i.e. mid size saloon - fine. But if anything that make me correct. I guess you could have worded you post better to make the point more obvious... 

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3 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

So have you driven a current and new ES given you slate them so much? And in this thread alone you don’t like anything 300h, the GS and call the IS 200t a waste of time and an absolute disgrace...I mean you are entitled to your opinion but as you don’t like the GS or the ES I’m wondering why your even so bothered as to be ranting on this thread so much

Why would I ever drive loafy FWD american car which was not even available in UK, that sort of obvious. But ES doesn't make every Lexus car. As for IS200t, you taking my point out of context - IS200t is not bad car in its own right - if it would be the sole car in the world it would be the best, but it isn't - for the year it was released, for it's price, for what competitors has on offer it is waste of time. 300h - I didn't say it is bad engine - yes, I feel entrapped by it being the Lexus only offer, but the issue is not in 300h, more so the lack of other choice. Actually, I think IS300h is good car for it's intended purpose, same can be said about RC300h. 

Yes I don't consider either as viable upgrade to IS250, but again don't take what I have said out of context - it is much more circumstances which makes car suitable upgrade for one person or another. Like - price, my personal needs, my preferences, other options on the market etc.

So, do I consider "every Lexus except >of mine< crap" - no not even by long shot. Have I "never driven them" - no, I have drive IS300h, RC300h, IS200t... just from what you mentioned - so the only one I have never driven is the one, nobody have driven yet.

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Having just bought a ten-year-old Lexus I won’t be buying into the brand again. I love RWD, but my GS won’t let me enjoy it with its nanny-state permo-assists. The build quality is appalling- I spent four hours today trying to sort out the rattles in the cabin, and I’ll spend a similar amount tomorrow smothering the door seals in gummi pfledge and sorting the next problem. Every time the temperature changes there’s a new rattle or squeak in the cabin, I can’t keep up with it. When I took it for its big service last month I came away with a bill for more than €5000, which included critical items such as as brakes (all-round) and an entire suspension overhaul. This, on a car which had full service history and up-to-date nct (MOT). I’m not even mentioning the Battery paranoia that most 3GS 450h owners must be having around now- I’m luckily guaranteed up to Feb 2019, but after that I’ll be ****ting a few Battery-cell shaped bricks.

My last car was a Mazda RX8- the most notoriously ‘unreliable’ car in the world. It never missed a beat in three years of ownership. It did 11mpg, the cabin build quality was second-to-none, it had a LSD and I miss it. Surely that’s ‘luxury’- driving something you enjoy? I’m still to find that yet in my Lexus, even though it’s ‘RWD’


Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

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Surely that’s ‘luxury’- driving something you enjoy?

- good point well made

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I still think the IS200t is better than the IS250 though.....

. *Patiently awaits another essay of Linas' opinion*

not that it really matters because this is an ES/GS thread

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In that whole discussion is there anything interesting about new GS/ES or is it all over again what is better FWD/RWD, turbo not turbo, L4 V6

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3 hours ago, rayaans said:

I still think the IS200t is better than the IS250 though.....

In absolute terms, not adjusting for price and age  - I tend to agree. But it is not better enough to justify £14000 price difference (in fact even more if comparing like for like SE-L with Premier ), if anything then IS300h is much better option for £10k (or £6000 difference).

19 minutes ago, Hangie said:

In that whole discussion is there anything interesting about new GS/ES or is it all over again what is better FWD/RWD, turbo not turbo, L4 V6

There is no such thing as new GS - it is over, gone, discontinued, dead, replaced by ES. And for ES - there is nothing of substance to discuss yet., so inevitably that boils down into pointless (pre)assumptions, theories and opinion wars.

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1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

In absolute terms, not adjusting for price and age  - I tend to agree. But it is not better enough to justify £14000 price difference (in fact even more if comparing like for like SE-L with Premier ), if anything then IS300h is much better option for £10k (or £6000 difference).

There is no such thing as new GS - it is over, gone, discontinued, dead, replaced by ES. And for ES - there is nothing of substance to discuss yet., so inevitably that boils down into pointless (pre)assumptions, theories and opinion wars.

And on that note we (Linas included) await the formal unveiling of the ES later this month.

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I think the ES looks great - Ive been sent some photos of it in F-Sport trim and Id buy it on looks alone

Its quite classy but subtedly sporty at the same time. 

Overall profile is similiar to the LS but has quite a low bonnet. The interior is very nice!

Regardless of how it drives - the looks and perceived quality is certainly up there with the 5er and E-class if not better.

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can you share those pics rayaans?

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how did you mange that?

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