GS300 2005 (Series 3) automatic transmission

[mark279455]

automatic transmission

the garage says my gearbox needs £2500/£3000 work done on it.
8 gearbox faults on the computer diagnostics.
when you drive it - it goes forward a yard - then stops (kinda like slipping the clutch)
the car is only worth £2000.

Anybody have any suggestions please.

 

[AmbroseJohn]

Start by changing the fluid.

Most car manufacturers say the transmission fluid is good for the life of the car but they seriously under estimate just how long we keep these things running. As far as the manufacturer is concerned the life of your car was over ten years ago. 🙂

[mark279455]

you think that may revive it? - just replace the transmission fluid?

[AmbroseJohn]

It often does, it's certainly worth it.

[mark279455]

John,

Im sorry - just that ive been through the mill with the garage about this.

Ive just looked at a couple of youtube videos about changing the ATF.

This seemed about the best.

Do i need to flush the system? - this guy says that this procedure will replace 205 quarts of fluid - but 12 quarts remain in the transmission/torque converter.

He says to repeat - 3 or 4 times.

Sorry to be a pain.

Best,

Mark

[The-Acre]

Mark, have you asked the garage to give you the fault codes?  And it may be worth asking them if they think a fluid change would possibly work.  Can I ask what mileage you're on?

[AmbroseJohn]

I'd just do a drain and refill for a start, just to see if there's any improvement. If it's better but not perfect, I'd go on and flush a couple of times.

It's worth spending a few quid to try to salvage it because a replacement transmission or expensive repair is not really an option.

If it works you've won, if it doesn't you're not out a fortune. 

[Ben01]

16 hours ago, mark279455 said:

you think that may revive it? - just replace the transmission fluid?

Keep in mind please, all clutches (any types) in the normal auto transmission are wet clutches, typically mulipack clutches, they are soaking in hot ATF oil. So, quality of the oil, its detoriation, overheating, etc. is critical wholesale, and for slipping of clutches too. And flush with fresh oil could improve "grip" of old, "glass-like" clutches. And sometimes there are dust or particles in the transmission, circulating with oil, and make slips here and there, or hesitate valves controlling clutches (this makes delays on clutches), and again, drain of old oil remove particles (but next question is, how many times we have to flush system to really remove dust, especially deposit from radiator(s) and torqe converter) .

But of course, could be no effect of flush, or short term improvement, if there is not enough material on the clutches, or are internal leaks on sealings, acctuators etc.inside transmission (this is typical after serious overheating), so not enough force on the clutches and internal valves have random micro-leaks. The new oil can not rebuild clutches or refurbish stiff or damaged sealings.

[TigerFish]

If you are changing the fluid, it is worth the effort to drop the pan and change the filter also. If that is clogged too much, it could be restricting the pressure in the system, affecting the operation.


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[Ben01]

19 minutes ago, TigerFish said:

If you are changing the fluid, it is worth the effort to drop the pan and change the filter also.

Always good idea, but am I right the toyota/lexus ATF filters are fine grid/mesh, difficult to clog? I never have any in my hand, but I hear opinions they are "loose" compared to typical dacron or VERY dense and fine dacron (clogging super-easy) etc. in other brands.

[mark279455]

OK guys thanks,

I am way outside my tech zone with this.

The car was fine in my mind before it went into the garage to have the radiator replaced - so i spent £700 on that.

(incl service and AC refill)

my question is - can this kind of issue happen suddenly.

Do i take a punt on changing the ATF and Filter?

105,000 miles

2005 model (Matk III)

Mark

[Ben01]

In theory, it could happen suddenly. In practice, 9 per 10 the garage [censored] anything when they have worked on the radiator - like: mess with transmission lines, transmission cooler, spilled ATF from lines/cooler and hushrushhush fill-up transmission with wrong type ATF, etc etc.

BTW please next time start with full info about situation, how could anybody guess "car was fine and it was radiator job".

Edit: Press them HARD, if they drained/filled transmission with any ATF on the radiator job.

[mark279455]

the problem was not appearent before the radiator was replaced.

the radiator needed replacing as it kept emptying -  leaving a pool inside the engine compartment

i dont have an issue there, but as someone pointed out - the car has 100,000 miles on the clock - not many.

it is 13 years old (getting there)

is still as quiet as it ever was.

- but as Alex said at the top - the car is 13 years old, the "lifetime" of the ATF was up 10 years ago

Mark

 

[AmbroseJohn]

The garage may have contaminated the fluid, when they changed the rad or just not topped it up with the correct fluid. 

I'm more confident now that a change of fluid will sort this problem.

[mark279455]

one last thing - is it normal for this sort of fault to happen suddenly.

i.e. the car moves forward a yard - and the clutch slips - and the drive stops.

Rather than you notice the clutch slipping more and more - it gradually gets worse?

[AmbroseJohn]

It depends what was done to the car during its recent repair. Fill it with the wrong ATF and yes, it will fail suddenly.

I rebuilt the limited slip diff on my Corvette years ago, which has wet clutches like an auto box. I  filled it with generic LSD oil and the noise was horrendous. I was advised to use only GM oil, so I changed it (reluctantly) and it was perfect.

[Ben01]

15 minutes ago, mark279455 said:

Rather than you notice the clutch slipping more and more - it gradually gets worse?

Again: ATF is most critical for auto transmission. Dont' think about ATF like about engine oil or smth. It is not the case. I could (delicate) run GS engine on any lowest shelf tarmac15W40 oil with no big consequences. If I fill-up my GS transmission with 2l of wrong ATF type, it will be like YOUR transmission IMMEDIATELY.

BTW don't press hard the car "for tests" or slippery drive. With wrong or mixed or contminated ATF, you only make transmission worse and more damage. PRESS HARD THE WORKSHOP, if they disconnected transmission cooling lines for the job, if they spilled ATF, if they filled-up or contaminated ATF with anything. Or simple flush the transmission as in the linked movie and you will see if its any better.

[mark279455]

im assuming that changing the radiator doesnt require messing with the transmission.

is that true?

[AmbroseJohn]

2 minutes ago, mark279455 said:

im assuming that changing the radiator doesnt require messing with the transmission.

is that true?

No, that's not true. The transmission is also cooled and the fluid runs through the radiator. The lines have to be disconnected during the replacement and the system topped up to replace the fluid lost in the old radiator.

[mark279455]

ok John - thanks

 

[AmbroseJohn]

Added to that, if the new radiator wasn't flushed before fitting (coolant & ATF) there may be all sorts of storage debris in the cooler, which is now in your transmission.

Talk to your garage because the may be liable for any repairs. 

[Ben01]

After all I have read here, maybe we have to step back a bit. Mark, do you have any idea how you should proper check ATF level in this transmission? Or does your garage?

[mark279455]

Ben,

i've always been one to buy the Haynes manual for my cars - but they don't do them for Lexus.

the youtube mentioned above is all the guidance i have.

Mark

[Ben01]

I don't know if Haynes or owner manual cover your "sealed" transmission fluid level problem. Here is some DIY description, more-less same as the youtube:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-3rd-gen-2006-2011/736105-changing-transmission-fluid-diy-w-pics.html

but it explains what is missing (or wrong) in youtube above.

Most critical is to fill-up tranny up to the "overspill" plug level in temperature about 43 deg. This is the proper level of fluid. And of course, use proper toyota ATF WS fluid (or strict equal).

As far as I understand at the moment, nobody has idea what level and what mix or contaminated fluid you have in the transmission. Most probable for common ignorant garage, they disconnected the transmission's lines and cooler on the radiator job, they spilled litres of ATF, and they had no clue what next with "sealed" transmission. So maybe you need only fill-up. But who knows, maybe they were "smarter" and found the way to fill-up, but with wrong ATF. Or ATF was contaminated with "water" (from engine radiator) on the job with radiator. It is a lottery. So check and fill-up to proper level is a minimum. Better, any flush.

[Fat Boy]

If you have access to lifter it a diy job 

buy a gear box service kit , which is a sump gasket , a filter and the oil 

make sure it is cold before working on it 

drain the oil and then remove the gear box sump 

once the sump is off ,remove the oil pick up filter , 5 bolts 

Make sure you clean the sump before refitting , top up oil and it should be fine 

filters break down and pull in on themselves which causes the problem 

to reset th3 code , pull the ecu fuse , wait 5min then replace 

job done