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With ES 300h when you are on a roundaboud and you step on it a bit harder in the middle of the way nothing particularly interesting will happen.

Another example when you join main road. I like that feeling of rear axel escaping a bit to catch the traction after short while and then start accelerate.

You can also have some fun when there is a bit of snow but then it is better to go for some bigger car parks as snow is less predictable and after all we all thinks about safety. 

In GS and especially 450h in sport+ you can have some good/fun ride as seen above.

It all coming back to definition of a good ride isn't it ? Everyone expect something else. Not everyone will go for a track day, do 155mph on Germany motorway or drive sideways from time to time. That why for some ES 300h is boring to drive while for another it is perfectly fine.

For me GS 450h is perfect mix. It got nice interior and luxury/comfortable feel/drive but then if you want to have some fun it is also there. For me also it doesn't need to be faster as if I'm after under 5s acceleration I'm switching to my motorcycle.

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I always said that the loss of GS, meant loss for 450h.. and that was always the biggest issue for me. I cannot say I particularly like GS, but the drive train it uses for me is perfect balance between power and economy. 300h is simply boring.. FWD in any car is either even more boring or scary if you have loads of power. 

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7 hours ago, route66 said:

Auto express group test of ES Vs Bmw 5 series and Volvo S90

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/es/106258/lexus-es-vs-bmw-5-series-vs-volvo-s90

I have read that, 2 things surprised me, one that Lexus has cheap materials inside here and there and another thing that from 30-50 or 50-70 it accelerates almost as quick as Volvo, I thought it would be much slower. 

Was disappointed to read about the ride quality though in Lexus. 

Good reviews on BMW, made me think for a moment if I should go back to that German car manufacturer, but then thinking a bit more always put me straight, GS is a great car!

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2 hours ago, Vlady said:

 and another thing that from 30-50 or 50-70 it accelerates almost as quick as Volvo, I thought it would be much slower. 

Well that is right - they are not comparing it against Volvo S90 T8 plug-in hybrid, but rather cheapest possible option with 2.0L diesel.

What is surprising from whole review is that both cars they review and all the optional choices have diesel engines. I understand that 2.0L diesel is often cheapest version of the car and they just trying to make comparative review ~kind of like for like, but in current "political" climate this seems ignorant and misinformed.

Almost funniest quote from entire article is this -  "Use maximum throttle and it’s more audible, but not much noisier than a diesel rival.". That is what I was saying all along - 300h is "trashy" engine, in the way that obviously it is quieter than diesel whilst simply idling or cruising (wow what an achievement, this is like saying faster than 1 legged dog), but when step on the accelerator it really makes harsh and nasty rattle. I mean when petrol engine is "not much noisier than diesel"... that is pretty awful petrol engine.

Finally, I have said it before and will say it again - Lexus put themselves in stupid position comparing ES with 5-Series/E-Class... they are not there, it is wrong class, GS (being arguable much better car already failed there).. and now they introducing half class lower car for the same class - it is destined to fail. If they would have positioned themselves rather at small 4-door coupes class, that would have been a win! I can easily see the car coming on top or close second in comparison against MB CLA, BMW-Grand 4, WV Arteon... But not against BMW 5

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17 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Well that is right - they are not comparing it against Volvo S90 T8 plug-in hybrid, but rather cheapest possible option with 2.0L diesel.

What is surprising from whole review is that both cars they review and all the optional choices have diesel engines. I understand that 2.0L diesel is often cheapest version of the car and they just trying to make comparative review ~kind of like for like, but in current "political" climate this seems ignorant and misinformed.

Almost funniest quote from entire article is this -  "Use maximum throttle and it’s more audible, but not much noisier than a diesel rival.". That is what I was saying all along - 300h is "trashy" engine, in the way that obviously it is quieter than diesel whilst simply idling or cruising (wow what an achievement, this is like saying faster than 1 legged dog), but when step on the accelerator it really makes harsh and nasty rattle. I mean when petrol engine is "not much noisier than diesel"... that is pretty awful petrol engine.

Finally, I have said it before and will say it again - Lexus put themselves in stupid position comparing ES with 5-Series/E-Class... they are not there, it is wrong class, GS (being arguable much better car already failed there).. and now they introducing half class lower car for the same class - it is destined to fail. If they would have positioned themselves rather at small 4-door coupes class, that would have been a win! I can easily see the car coming on top or close second in comparison against MB CLA, BMW-Grand 4, WV Arteon... But not against BMW 5

100000% Agree

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I do think the ES300H is designed to be a relaxed cruiser, to waft through traffic with excellent fuel consumption and in silence. It will find some happy owners for sure. Some of them interested in cars and maybe on this forum but i think most will be non car guys going for the individual taste, the beeing different.

This model has nothing to do with competing with a 5 series or even a 3 series. ES300H forecast for 2019 is 1000 cars only. BM sells that in ONE day. You want to drive something exclusive, away from the crowd and want to do this in luxury with full safetykit and great consumption this could be the car for you. Want to drive a car to the limits look somewhere else, it is as simple as that.

 

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1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

This model has nothing to do with competing ..... forecast for 2019 is 1000 cars only. .... You want to drive something exclusive....

And here is typical logical brake-down in anyone trying to justify replacement of rather good car with rather mediocre...

Lexus pulls out GS because it does not sell and it is not competitive... well OK?! But you are saying the car which replaces GS is not made to be competitive, nor it is forecasted to sell... well that makes no-sense. If Lexus just wants to have niche model, which is "something else and exclusive" .. GS ticks all the boxes - it is great, but misunderstood car which doesn't sell.

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The GS was axed because sales in the saloon market are melting away so apparently Toyota decided they could no longer be profitable with 2 saloons ( GS and ES) in a globally  shrinking market. They upped the ES and made that the replacement of both GS ( which is more expensive to produce than the ES).and ES. A pure and in my idea logic business decision. I am not trying to justify anything but without the US market there would not be any salooncar between the IS and LS at all. 

Lexus UK expects to sell around 1000 ES cars in 2019 and if they reach that goal i guess it will be seen as a success. Growth will have to come from the new UX that expects to sell 6000 units pa and is likely to draw new customers to the brand. If the UX is a success the ES will be good for 5% of total Lexus UK sales.   

   

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Unfortunately, I feel that car journalists are stuck in a time warp, often judging cars by outdated standards. Is performance really the be all and end all when you consider speed limits and congested roads? Are 0-60 figures really relevant? Would you really notice that your car is 1 second slower from 30 to 70? Would you even care?

"You do get a good level of equipment for your money, though, with satellite navigation, heated electric leather sports seats, parking sensors and a reversing camera, plus climate and cruise control." 

Is this really a benchmark nowadays? Is this what a Lexus should be judged by when you get all these as standard on the average hatchback (my teenage son has all these - and more - on his middle of the road, 4 year old Peugeot 208!)

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1 hour ago, Dippo said:

Apparently the top of the range Camry is going to be priced at £31,295 - the entry model will be £29,995.

https://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-2019-toyota-camry-prices-sale-date

Well that seriously undercuts the ES in a big way. Take the top of the range model of both - £31k vs £45k. If the specs are similar, that is one huge difference. Top of the range Camry vs base ES and premium pack? You are still talking about an 7k difference. 

 

I would welcome your views on these differences but all I can say is the Toyota prices are very reasonable but maybe there is a price to pay in terms of depreciation etc. 

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24 minutes ago, pork_pie said:

Well that seriously undercuts the ES in a big way. Take the top of the range model of both - £31k vs £45k. If the specs are similar, that is one huge difference. Top of the range Camry vs base ES and premium pack? You are still talking about an 7k difference. 

 

I would welcome your views on these differences but all I can say is the Toyota prices are very reasonable but maybe there is a price to pay in terms of depreciation etc. 

Well the Camry is quite a bit smaller than the ES, which I think is based on the longer-wheelbase Avalon version of the platform. Don't think Toyota GB plan to offer the Avalon here, which is a shame, as it has a more flexible interior than the ES, including fold-down rear seats...

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7 hours ago, DanD said:

Unfortunately, I feel that car journalists are stuck in a time warp, often judging cars by outdated standards. Is performance really the be all and end all when you consider speed limits and congested roads? Are 0-60 figures really relevant? Would you really notice that your car is 1 second slower from 30 to 70? Would you even care?

"You do get a good level of equipment for your money, though, with satellite navigation, heated electric leather sports seats, parking sensors and a reversing camera, plus climate and cruise control." 

Is this really a benchmark nowadays? Is this what a Lexus should be judged by when you get all these as standard on the average hatchback (my teenage son has all these - and more - on his middle of the road, 4 year old Peugeot 208!)

Depressing, isn’t it when you consider how much additional stuff is in a Lexus and yet it’s not mentioned.  Also, how the journalists bang on if an AUDI or BMW has an electric steering wheel adjustment yet not mention it in a Lexus test.

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The Camry isn't really quite a bit smaller. Length: ES 4960, Camry 4880,  Width: ES 1865, Camry 1840, Height: ES 1445, Camry 1450, Wheelbase ES 2870, Camry 2820.

 

So the ES is about 3 inches longer, and 1 inch wider.

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Finally got one from Carwow

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Aggghhh .... quicker than me. Fair review, as every single other review said - bettered by German in any possible way, I am sure that would not be the case if Lexus wouldn't have decided to bite on what they cannot swallow i.e. 5-series.

Yet again, when I say 300h doesn't like to be pushed and is quite trashy when pushed everyone get's offended, but every single review says the same thing... coast it slowly and it is very luxurious and relaxing, but push it and and it really sounds trashy.

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I was given an ES F-Sport as a courtesy car today whilst my GS was in for a service.The Azure Blue is an awesome colour and even looks great on a wet, miserable day like today.

I found that it is noticeably quicker than the GS when accelerating and a bit quieter at full throttle. Whilst I do agree with Linas.P about the coarse sounding engine when it is at full throttle, I don't need full throttle very often on my GS so it doesn't bother me that much. I suspect with the ES being quieter and accelerating quicker, I'd notice it even less. It would really benefit the car if Lexus could develop a smoother engine for it, maybe it is just not possible with a 4 cylinder Atkinson Cycle engine.

The ride was definitely more jiggly than my GS, presumably because it is an F-Sport, but I think it is better on the big bumps. I'm not convinced that the road noise is much quieter than the GS though. Also, the suspension felt looser to me, not as controlled as the GS is.

Whilst I think I could get used to driving it, my biggest problems are with the interior and equipment levels. If I went with the F-Sport, I'd lose the 12 inch screen and the internet connected functions and, surprisingly, the soft-close boot lid. The smaller display limits the options of what can be displayed on the same screen, including not showing cover art unless you make the media screen the main one. My GS shows it on the side screen too. I know these are small things, but it would make the ES feel like a step backwards unless I got the Takumi pack or model at £6k to £10k more than my GS and another £300 per year in car tax.

The main thing though is the reduction in trim quality. The "wood style" trim on the F-Sport looks like cheap textured plastic to me, the window controls look no better than my Skoda Yeti and the volume control looks like it's off a cheap home radio. The hard plastic in front of the infotainment screen feels really cheap, as does the plastic on the door bins. All of these are much better to look at and feel on the GS. There is hard plastic on the centre console too, but this is covered by my leg, so it doesn't bother me too much. They've also changed the stalks so that they stay in position when you move them, I prefer the GS stalks that move back to the centre position when you let go as it feels more premium to me.

Overall, I agree with most of what has been said in the reviews and I've been put off buying one. It is what I feared, a lower spec, lower quality model than the GS for a very similar price. I hoped that Lexus would tweak the quality a bit compared to the US version given that it is a new model here, but apparently not. The overall quality feels more higher-end Toyota than Lexus and the loss of some of the equipment I have on my (cheapest model) GS, means I'm very unlikely to change to it. It will be interesting to see how the Camry compares when it's released.

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That is unfortunately very common trend with most new cars - they are created in marketing and finance departments and engineering need to complelty adjust. Yes I know Toyota and everyone else are not charities and need to make money but I still got feeling than it the past balance was more on the engineering side. 

There is also a preasure on the public companies that they need to make more money/grow every year. Price cant go up so cost must go down - good example BA and Lexus ES 🙂 

 

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19 hours ago, rayaans said:

Finally got one from Carwow

Will be watching is shortly, but it has been noted else where that any manufacturer with a reputation for not giving discounts gets hammered by CarWow, who's whole business model is sourcing discounts.

Edit ---

OK not as bad as I expected.

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Lexus beats the Germans for reliability and the infotainment is not difficult to use after you’ve altered the sensitivity of the pad and gotten used to it. You have to get used to any car.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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35 minutes ago, ISJason said:

Lexus beats the Germans for reliability and the infotainment is not difficult to use after you’ve altered the sensitivity of the pad and gotten used to it. You have to get used to any car.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

A welcome voice in the wilderness!

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On 2/27/2019 at 11:26 AM, arkviz said:

Yesterday I've driven new ES in top specs and these are my conclusions:

Seats are nicely stitched, but for my taste less comfortable. Car is bigger than GS, but i had less space behind a wheel in width. Some plastics inside car looks cheap. Wood decorative panels are plastic too. Ceiling upholstery is made of fabric. GS has nice white velvet. Comparing to my GS, it looks like materials are overall cheaper. Steering wheel was nice, but it has different layout, so i had problems using it ☺️ Infotainment had nicer graphics, but was totally not possible to use while driving. There was new front parking camera + panoramic top view. In the beginning i couldn't  recognize what I see on screen, because of strong fish eye camera distortion.

Engine at idle is slightly louder than GS (300h of course) and LESS REFINED than its older brother while driving. Slightly better it sounds at higher revs. Insulation is remarkably thinner than in the GS. Engine feels more powerful. It is probably thanks to help of electric motor, which is being used much more often than in GS. Moving centimeter by centimeter on parking lot is harder, as the pedals are somehow sharper. It is like driving 5km/h or 0.

Steering is harder, maybe there is less power steering. Car has relatively huge turning radius and. On the road it is typical FWD...

I was surprised there was Mark Levinson sign on center console. Sound system didn't performed so nice as my Pioneer in GS.

My final conclusion is quite negative. This car is step forward, however 2 steps downstairs. In terms "premiumness" I would rate it below both GS and IS.

On our market it is comparable to Skoda Superb, VW Passat, Arteon or Opel Insignia. 


 

Re the comment on the ML System, it’s a blinding system if you play master files via Tidal, and even if streaming Hifi or lesser files, live music plays exceptionally well provided you play with the settings. The track pad is a **** to use on first use, but if you’re getting into one of these cars the track pad is relatively easy to use after a couple of days with the left hand on the move, and I am only 200 miles in, having come from an IS300h Advance with stock system and rotary dial.

The fisheye camera - I agree, on my reversing camera on the fisheye setting, it’s pants.

I wouldn’t rate the ES as a lesser to the IS in terms of premiumness, it’s quite a leap upwards from the IS provided you go for the F Sport with Takumi pack or the Takumi, otherwise you get stuck with the stock sound system and stock lights both of which belong on something other than a Lexus. I couldn’t comment on the newer GS as a comparison as I have never really liked the recent GS Models.

I don’t agree at all that the ES is comparable to Skoda Superb, VW Passat or Insignia - all of these are way off the mark from the ES, that said, in terms of overall pitch, it’s not quite on par with a 5 Series, A6 or E Class, and nor should it be when considering the cost for cost comparison against specs - it’s a nice in between normal cars and MB/BMW without breaking the bank. This last point especially on UK Reviews is something that is lost by most reviewers as a comparable BM/Merc/Audi in the same spec can be £10k plus on the list price.

 

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I have a video on the ES300h Takumi if anyone wants to check out the top spec ES in the UK?

 

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  • 203 Hybrid Reliability

    1. 1. If you were to consider buying a Hybrid model over 5 years old, would you be worried about the reliability of the Hybrid system?


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