Mike246

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1 hour ago, Mike246 said:

Lexus have done themselves no favours in the way they have bundled all their goodies. My beef is that to get the rather desirable 12.3" central area display you have to go to the F-Sport with the Takumi pack as minimum.

I'm with you on this. It would be nice to see a Premium Nav upgrade option on all trim levels with the 12 inch screen, again BMW and Mercedes have similar upgrade options.

 

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There is a different philosophy with options from Lexus to BMW/Merc though.  It could be the difference between japan and EU arguably.

Lexus have packs, always have and a generally higher spec overall.  This gives less variety and I guess with the lesser volumes, it is more cost efficient to do this.

The EU based brands tend to have had lots of individual options and less packs, though more packs seem to come through now. Given the higher volumes, it is easier for them to build effectively customised cars. The cost of options is not always in proportion to the true cost of thing either. This is usually where manufacturers make huge profits, more than on the overall car themselves.

I do remember a time when a radio was a cost option on a BMW, you only got an extra cubby hole if you didn't specify it.

in this case I think Lexus may have made a mistake here. or maybe their market research says Auto Wipers aren't important, or that people who buy ES's will buy packs!

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That's generally true, I think both the Japanese and Korean brands tend to push you to the next trim level for more features rather than having a huge list of options.

I've noticed that Mercedes tend to package options more now, whilst BMW and VAG cars have a lot more individual options. I have wondered whether a lot more car manufacturers will shift to packs rather than individual options with the stricter emissions tests on new cars.

 

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Ged,

A few questions as you have taken delivery and are therefore the expert . . .

- the binnacle shows the speedo with an outer ring to indicate rpm. Is there an option for displaying the two meters side by side, as in most cars?

- does it have stop-start and car this be switched out of service?

- is the parking brake automatically applied/released?

 

Mike

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45 minutes ago, Mike246 said:

Ged,

A few questions as you have taken delivery and are therefore the expert . . .

- the binnacle shows the speedo with an outer ring to indicate rpm. Is there an option for displaying the two meters side by side, as in most cars?

- does it have stop-start and car this be switched out of service?

- is the parking brake automatically applied/released?

 

Mike

Hi,

I can help with the second two:

- It does have stop start, but because it is a hybrid, it pulls away on the electric motor then restarts the engine when it needs to once you are underway, In my experience, this is one area that hybrids beat petrol and diesel engines because there is no delay in starting from standstill.

- Yes, the parking brake is automatic.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mike246 said:

Ged,

A few questions as you have taken delivery and are therefore the expert . . .

- the binnacle shows the speedo with an outer ring to indicate rpm. Is there an option for displaying the two meters side by side, as in most cars?

- does it have stop-start and car this be switched out of service?

- is the parking brake automatically applied/released?

 

Mike

The Speedo question.

If you put it in sport mode with the speed meter option set to analog then you get the attached pic with a Speedo and a rev counter.

No you cannot get them side by side.

Normal and eco mode  there is no rev counter only a charge eco or power dial that shows in general terms What You are doing.

Your other questions..

Start stop mode doesn't apply really. Its different to normal cars. The Battery and motors work when they need to and the motor kicks in when it needs to. You just go! There is an ev mode button to force electric mode but this is of limited use.

 

Handbrake is automatic yes. Completely and works well.

15525980992229092589144656529376.jpg

Edited by Gediredi
Spelling mistake due to autocorrect

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I've just been  to Ireland..  waiting at Dublin docks right now for a delayed ferry so time on my hands.

The normal Speedo i use is shown below. Digital display so figures in the centre of the dial. I like it as it's clearer to me. You can also see the charge eco and power parts.

 

Something useful I discovered.. the Speedo is of course by default in MPH but of course in Ireland limits and signs are in KMh. Speedo doesn't show that in ANY way! 

I found you can change the units to kmh on the steering wheel quite easy.

15525987609785885262261839977782.jpg

15525990565985716261997431305399.jpg

 

Settings / scroll down / units ok to change value.

Settings / meter settings / units also seems to toggle kmh and mph.

Settings/ speed meter toggles digital or analog Speedo display.

Analog pic attached cos why not?

15525993961651643659571794990602.jpg

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I like the bottom photo.  Didn’t know about the speed meter.  I’m off to check my NX.

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Ged,

Many thanks for that.

It all sound quite workable. I raised the stop-start issue as I had a Jag with this which was a real irritation and I was in a friend's Merc today which has the same effect on him. I'm relieved to hear that the ES does not have this.

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22 hours ago, Steve44 said:

There is a different philosophy with options from Lexus to BMW/Merc though.  It could be the difference between japan and EU arguably.

Lexus have packs, always have and a generally higher spec overall.  This gives less variety and I guess with the lesser volumes, it is more cost efficient to do this.

The EU based brands tend to have had lots of individual options and less packs, though more packs seem to come through now. Given the higher volumes, it is easier for them to build effectively customised cars. The cost of options is not always in proportion to the true cost of thing either. This is usually where manufacturers make huge profits, more than on the overall car themselves.

I do remember a time when a radio was a cost option on a BMW, you only got an extra cubby hole if you didn't specify it.

in this case I think Lexus may have made a mistake here. or maybe their market research says Auto Wipers aren't important, or that people who buy ES's will buy packs!

I read recently that European manufacturers - primarily the German ones - are moving towards offering packs in place of the current multitude of individual extras that is just not cost effective any more. With demand drastically slowing down (by as much as 70% in China), manufacturers are being forced to rationalise their ranges and approach. Audi and Mercedes in particular are considering discontinuing some of their models altogether (did you know that Audi currently offer no less than 80 variants of the A4!) and MINI are talking about killing off their Clubman in favour of an improved Countryman. That with the move away from diesel in favour of hybrids and EVs... times are a-changing! - The coming years are going to be interesting. Hopefully, this will also bring in a new breed of motoring journalists who will focus on more relevant figures than 0-60mph and whether or not a car has air conditioning!

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15 hours ago, Mike246 said:

Ged,

Many thanks for that.

It all sound quite workable. I raised the stop-start issue as I had a Jag with this which was a real irritation and I was in a friend's Merc today which has the same effect on him. I'm relieved to hear that the ES does not have this.

I have a question - what was it about the stop start technology you did not like? The lexus petrol engine while quiet and discreet can and will stop and start as the car sees fit.

If its the case that you didn't like the engine cutting out at traffic lights and the lack of engine noise per se then you will find the Lexus will do the same at traffic lights (unless there is a charging demand and the engine will run - sometimes start up on its own at the lights which might be strange for you.).

If it is the inevitable short lag on the stop start between putting the gas pedal down and the engine starting before you get power to go, then don't worry - the electric motor engages instantly and you set off. If you give it any real acceleration the engine will start to provide power and take over seamlessly from the electric motor - you won't really notice it you will just "go".

 

Hope this helps you - I recommend a test drive as it is different to a normal auto box and some people do not like it. If you work it hard for acceleration the revs immediately shoot up to the most efficient rev level and STAY THERE - (this is often complained about by motoring journalists) there is no feel of an auto gearbox shifting through the gears - you just go faster!

 

Personally after getting used to it in my IS I test drove a BMW with an auto box and I HATED the feel of the gear change and hunting for the correct gear at certain speeds! There is literally none of that with the CVT Hybrid drive - so smooth!

 

Another thing I'd like to advise people new to the Lexus Hybrid drive (well Toyota let's be honest) is that IN MY OPINION the sport mode is great but sport + and the paddles on the steering wheel are more or less for decoration - the car will not let you do anything inappropriate and will change gear for you either up or down if you get to either end of the rev limits and the "gear change" is all simulated anyway to give the feel of a standard automatic. NOTE- I am no expert and its only my opinion - if anyone has other viewpoints I am quite willing to be corrected.

 

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Ged,

The issue with my former Jag (and my friend's Mercedes apparently) is that there is half a second lag when you need a fast getaway.

There are a few major roundabouts in the area where entering from minor roads at busy times is not for the feint-hearted. You need to spot a gap and react quickly. The Jag was not up to it however from what you have said the ES combination does not suffer from this.

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Sport mode = No problems whatsoever.

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The way Lexus hybrids are made is totally different from thermal engines with start-stop devices, HSD works in synergy and there is no starting motor for thermal engine, so don't worry about feeling when it starts, it will do seamless as there is no transition from electric to thermal traction, it' snot a or/or way of working, electric and thermal work accordingly to needs.

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1 hour ago, Zotto said:

The way Lexus hybrids are made is totally different from thermal engines with start-stop devices, HSD works in synergy and there is no starting motor for thermal engine, so don't worry about feeling when it starts, it will do seamless as there is no transition from electric to thermal traction, it' snot a or/or way of working, electric and thermal work accordingly to needs.

Yes, if anything hybrids get themselves off the line faster and more reliably than torque converters or manual transmissions, with instant max electric torque (to all four wheels in the case of the NX and RX).  Agree with Mike that stop/start in conventional drivetrains is an abomination, and I always disable it in rental cars.

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On 3/15/2019 at 1:12 PM, DanD said:

I read recently that European manufacturers - primarily the German ones - are moving towards offering packs in place of the current multitude of individual extras that is just not cost effective any more. With demand drastically slowing down (by as much as 70% in China), manufacturers are being forced to rationalise their ranges and approach. Audi and Mercedes in particular are considering discontinuing some of their models altogether (did you know that Audi currently offer no less than 80 variants of the A4!) and MINI are talking about killing off their Clubman in favour of an improved Countryman. That with the move away from diesel in favour of hybrids and EVs... times are a-changing! - The coming years are going to be interesting. 

Times are indeed changing..  There will be massive changes in the motorindustry in the next 3 years all caused by WLTP and EU regulations. By 2021 the average output of all cars sold by a manufacturer may not exceed 95 grams. This is laid down in EU laws and will be monitored. When over the company will be fined. These fines are serious stuff and it is whispered that the VAG group could face 1.5 billion as it is not expected they will make the average of 95.

Sounds easy want 95 or below? just build small cars and presto! But no, these minis cannot be engineered below the threshold, so the more you sell the faster you will reach the dreaded fines.. Basically the only way to get below 95 is electrification and especially plug ins or EV,s. So that will happen. Expect the C1ś, Aygoś, Pandas, Ups etc to disappear from the market, Expect the big engines to disappear as well unless it is a niche model with that sells in extremely slow numbers. Expect EV to hit the market in vast numbers, these will be pushed into the market if needed below cost, all to sink below the 95 average threshold.  Times, they are changing...  

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The reason that the "Dieselgate" scandal and similar happened is that legislation was passed that was technically impossible to comply with within the timescale. Politicians virtue signal without considering realities.

Let's hope that this 95gm target does not cause a similar issue.

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