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Nico72

EV not starting after a minor accident

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Hi gents,

Sadly, yesterday someone drove in the back of my car (and admitted liability) driving home from school pickup, although it is a minor collision, scratch and paint work will be required to redo the rear bumper (insurance is on the case), I noticed since my accident, that my car won't come with the EV mode automatically as it used to, as it is constantly using the petrol engine (and I drive sensibly). I have reported the issue with the repair centre and they will be investigating this whilst the paint work will be dealt with. Has anyone experienced this kind of situation before? I am very surprised about this, as the damage as mentioned is minimal (ie no structural damage to the bumper)...

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Are you getting the car repaired at a Lexus approved body shop? - I would strongly advise it from personal bitter experience with an insurance repairer 2 years ago. 

Sounds like you have hidden damage and I would be wary of using the car if it no longer runs electric. 

 

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Hi, I am going to speak with Lexus today regarding this. No, I am not using my car at the moment and waiting for it to be towed away today. It is being handled with third party insurance.

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Sorry to hear that you've had a bump and I hope that it's repaired quickly, to a good standard with the minimum of fuss.

I presume you aren't seeing any fault lights on the dash or prompts on the multi function display? 

Might you be able to plug in an OBDII scanner and check for codes?

What's the HV Battery level like?  Is the hybrid system still recharging the HV pack?  

It's got a bit colder recently and I presume that you've cranked up the cabin temp's, which will keep the combustion engine engaged for longer with less EV mode.  Try lowering the cabin temps and see if EV mode engages more frequently/or at all.

Modern vehicles often have a fuel immobiliser that engage during impacts (fuel cut off switch) which doesn't appear to be an issue for you.  I wondered if some form of pyrotechnic fuse is present to disable the high voltage system?  A quick Google hasn't turned up anything related to the GS 450h yet but I did find a cool emergency responder guide that's quite interesting, link.

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As Lee says above I think it more likely to be with the cooler weather, and the use of heat that is causing your symptoms. The HV side of things must be working normally as it is this system that starts the engine not the 12 volt Battery.
Has you fuel consumption risen more than a few miles per gallon? There will be an increase this time of the year of around 3 to 4 mpg because of the cooler weather.

John. 

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One can force the car into EV mode even on a cold start if one presses the EV button before the ICE starts (at least one can on the RC), usually within 5sec of the Ready light illuminating..

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Hi Gents,

Sorry for the delay, as I have been very busy. I have some good news to share: I phoned Lexus in Edgware Road and they asked that I drive to them so that they can inspect the hybrid. A lady named Andrea who runs the service dept was amazing: she inspected the car and took it for a drive. within 5 minutes, she happily confirmed that there was nothing wrong with the Hybrid system (I was relieved to hear this) and she said when the weather gets cold the Hybrid works slightly differently and if there was a fault, there would be a warning light on the dashboard. So, now I know it is only a minor cosmetic repair with respraying the rear bumper... Meanwhile, the insurance organised a rental vehicle (free) and I was given a Range Rover Sport to drive for a few days... See the pic (rear vehicle). It is actually quite a nice car to drive, but it cannot hide its way, especially when turning around corners...

20191009_135630.jpg

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9 hours ago, Britprius said:

As Lee says above I think it more likely to be with the cooler weather, and the use of heat that is causing your symptoms. The HV side of things must be working normally as it is this system that starts the engine not the 12 volt battery.
Has you fuel consumption risen more than a few miles per gallon? There will be an increase this time of the year of around 3 to 4 mpg because of the cooler weather.

John. 

Hi John, I did not notice this as I only drove such a short distance after my collision. But thanks for the info, it is very useful to know.

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10 hours ago, Farqui said:

Sorry to hear that you've had a bump and I hope that it's repaired quickly, to a good standard with the minimum of fuss.

I presume you aren't seeing any fault lights on the dash or prompts on the multi function display? 

Might you be able to plug in an OBDII scanner and check for codes?

What's the HV battery level like?  Is the hybrid system still recharging the HV pack?  

It's got a bit colder recently and I presume that you've cranked up the cabin temp's, which will keep the combustion engine engaged for longer with less EV mode.  Try lowering the cabin temps and see if EV mode engages more frequently/or at all.

Modern vehicles often have a fuel immobiliser that engage during impacts (fuel cut off switch) which doesn't appear to be an issue for you.  I wondered if some form of pyrotechnic fuse is present to disable the high voltage system?  A quick Google hasn't turned up anything related to the GS 450h yet but I did find a cool emergency responder guide that's quite interesting, link.

Thank you Farqui for the great info!!

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By the way, I forgot to say something really important from Lexus Edgware Road (and it is for anyone who is interested with the GS car really):

One of the sales Executives (whom I bought my car from) said that they have a GSF car year 2019 (yes you heard this right) that was built in Japan (only 2 of them were built as GSF) on special request from the General Manager at Lexus Edgware Road with high specifications (interior is absolutely stunning) Lexus in Japan said yes to build 2 x uniques cars (despite the productions ended) - carbon fibre inside. The General Manager had it for a few months and drove 6k miles and it is now on for sales for £62.5k - very tempting but out of my budget... I thought you might be interested in knowing this. Feel free to view the pics (and I am not working for Lexus nor trying to push a sale here)

https://edgwareroad.usedcars.lexus.co.uk/en/used-lexus/Lexus/Gs-F-Saloon/50-4dr-Auto-Mark-Levinson-jjb5zgp

GSF.png

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First,  if HV Battery is someway disconnected a Hybrid car does NOT start engine, as there is not a starter 12V motor for thermal engine; so, HV is present. In normal driving after thermal engine has reached working temperature every time you slow down from about 50 mph it goes off (zero rpm); in this does not happens there are only 2 possibilities: or thermal engine has not reached working temperature or something goes wrong with temperature sensors and ECU. After some minutes of driving (with hot engine) EV should work and can be forced too with EV switch, NOT with very low temperatures or cold engine. EV is only effective with speed lower than 50 mph and with a light right foot.

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56 minutes ago, Zotto said:

First,  if HV battery is someway disconnected a Hybrid car does NOT start engine, as there is not a starter 12V motor for thermal engine; so, HV is present. In normal driving after thermal engine has reached working temperature every time you slow down from about 50 mph it goes off (zero rpm); in this does not happens there are only 2 possibilities: or thermal engine has not reached working temperature or something goes wrong with temperature sensors and ECU. After some minutes of driving (with hot engine) EV should work and can be forced too with EV switch, NOT with very low temperatures or cold engine. EV is only effective with speed lower than 50 mph and with a light right foot.

The GS450H does not have an EV switch so it cannot be forced into EV. If the HV Battery is very high on charge the car will run on electricity up to 70 mph. Under normal levels of charge "5 blue bars to 6 green on the display" it will run in EV up to 30 mph at which point it starts the engine. Your RX may be different.

John.

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Oh, Ok, I had a 2008 GS 450h and a 2014 GS300h but my memory does not go so far 😊. My experience with RX is that, even with EV switch, if engine is cold it says "EV not available at the moment" .

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14 hours ago, Britprius said:

The GS450H does not have an EV switch so it cannot be forced into EV. If the HV battery is very high on charge the car will run on electricity up to 70 mph. Under normal levels of charge "5 blue bars to 6 green on the display" it will run in EV up to 30 mph at which point it starts the engine. Your RX may be different.

John.

According to the 2014 GS (the OP's model year) handbook the car does have an EV mode switch (page 260) which works in the same way as the mode in the 2019 RC..

 

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From the above mentioned handbook ..

"Switching to EV drive mode when the gasoline engine is cold
If the hybrid system is started while the gasoline engine is cold, the gasoline engine
will start automatically in order to warm up. In this case, you will become unable to
switch to EV drive mode

To prevent gasoline engine warm up in order
to reduce noises, start the hybrid system without starting the gasoline engine, pressing the
power switch with fully depressing the brake
pedal and pressing the EV drive mode switch."

This is slightly different from the process in my RC, where one puts the car into the Ready state and then presses the EV mode switch. This 2019 RC model waits a considerably longer period of time before starting the gasoline engine compared with the 2016 model

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The 4th gen GS does have an EV switch.

The EV vs engine power switch is mostly related to power demands. Above a certain speed (about 40-45mph or so), the engine will be spinning regardless (in fuel-cut mode or otherwise), so at that point just about any throttle will use fuel... I think. I did an experiment (didn't have hybridassistant at the time) - using veeery light throttle, the dash would show the car using EV power only at 60mph downhill, but the fuel consumption gauge would show fuel consumption.

Also, after every startup, once the engine has fully warmed up (~80deg. coolant temperature achieved), the engine will run until the car sits still (or glides on EV at pretty much walking speed, assuming it's not force-charging the Battery at the same time) for a few seconds (5-10-20...) - it is calibrating its MAF probe to account for contamination/etc. Stage3+ in Prius jargon. You can test this by shutting down the car after the engine has warmed up, starting it up again and blipping the throttle in park (or turning the engine on in any other way). The engine will keep running for a few seconds. Once it then stops, any further stops should be almost instantaneous - blip the throttle in park again and it will run for a second or two tops.

Other cases of the engine running - initial warmup (40deg. coolant temp), heat required for cabin heating, Battery level too low, transmission in "sport"(manual  gear ratio select, engine won't start automatically, but will not stop while in S-mode), maintenance mode, HV failsafe mode (even a pending code will trigger it). In case of failsafe, you WILL know - the car will be a snail in terms of throttle response

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