Yokohama or Michelin Cross Climate's?

[LenT]

On 5/5/2022 at 4:00 PM, Silversalmon said:

Finally got round to fitting Michelin Cross Climates to my NX300, whilst the transformation of the noise is fabulous and road manners much more comfortable the Kwik Fit experience was bloody awful. First they phoned to tell me the TPMS sensor had broken, I was forced to go to my local dealer to get a new one fitted and reprogrammed. Cost £180.00. 

Lexus cleaned car and drew my attention to state of wheels, all four wheels were scored by their tyre fitting device! Went to KF with invoice to find no manager on site. Left invoice with them and will call tomorrow. How they will resolve thme wheel damage, they are diamond cut, Premier model, and i suspect this will end up going to Head office. Anyone have any advice before i see them tomorrow?

I'll never darken their doors again, just happy to pay main dealer, they say they will price match. Lexus Glasgow brilliant to deal with if anyone needs a recommendation

Ed

A sorry tale indeed, Ed, that raises many questions.

How did a simple tyre removal damage a wheel?  Why did the Fitter not notice and instead went on to repeat the problem with the other three wheels?  How did a TPMS valve get damaged?

I would suspect that this is not even KF’s normal standard of service, so just wondered how the matter was resolved.

Regarding Lexus price match, I too was surprised that my local Lexus dealer would price.match a new set of Goodyear Asymmetric 5s when I was buying a set from my regular tyre specialist.  I went with the tyre people because I was also having a set of Alloygators fitted - which I would certainly recommend to anyone with alloy wheels!

But it does highlight the generally high level of customer service that Lexus provides.

[Silversalmon]

Quick update, Glasgow Lexus fitted a new TPMS for £173, and KF are also paying for the wheels being refurbed, £408, trade price apparently, as i went to their recommended outfit, who actually have a very good rep.Just about to pick the car up this evening. KF refunded me the valve money in cash, I do hope they sort out the wheels just as promptly. They didn't argue when they saw the damage!

[LenT]

2 hours ago, Silversalmon said:

Quick update, Glasgow Lexus fitted a new TPMS for £173, and KF are also paying for the wheels being refurbed, £408, trade price apparently, as i went to their recommended outfit, who actually have a very good rep.Just about to pick the car up this evening. KF refunded me the valve money in cash, I do hope they sort out the wheels just as promptly. They didn't argue when they saw the damage!

Sounds like a result, Edward.

Clearly KF has tried to redeem itself by taking responsibility for the damage and resolving the problem.  Well, it has its critics but a good test of any company is how it sorts out the occasional problem. 

Hopefully, this will restore your confidence in them.

[Silversalmon]

Thanks Len, yes, I've used them on and off over the years, local, and first time I've had a problem. Think I'll stick with dealers for the Lexus in future, I know they're not cheap but the service @ Glasgow is always a pleasure. It was a 20% discount on the cross climates that drew me in. They tyres are revolutionary in the change, really improves ride and the noise is so much quieter. 

 

[Silversalmon]

To be fair to Kwik Fit, they did indeed pay for the new TPMS valve and refurbishment of the alloy wheels, perversely the cost of putting it all right was almost identical to the cost of the tyres.

Very very pleased with transformation of the CC tyres, a real gamechanger.

[royoftherovers]

3 hours ago, Silversalmon said:

To be fair to Kwik Fit, they did indeed pay for the new TPMS valve and refurbishment of the alloy wheels, perversely the cost of putting it all right was almost identical to the cost of the tyres.

Very very pleased with transformation of the CC tyres, a real gamechanger.

I`ve never read an adverse comment on Michelin CC Tyres, nor of a failed e-cvt transmission from an owner of a Toyota or Lexus vehicle, Edward.

Thanks for sharing.

[Las Palmas]

As most of us need new tyres now and then (except for those changing cars before the tyres are worn out) I have also been searching the internet for all I can find out and it seems that the CC from Michelin are the best all-season tyres with a C for fuel economy (never found one with A rating) and A for handling in wet and a not bad at all 69db result for noise.

Have found one with a B rating for fuel, but it also had a B for wet handling. Being able to drive in wet is not something to accept any better rating than A.

If noise is something that come in first place, I have found no better tyres than the Michelin CC for all-season tyres.

I am lucky enough to live where all-season tyres (which are a compromise between summer- and winter-tyres) are not needed. Summer tyres are often found with 68 and 67 and a few also with 66db in noise level. The ones I have found with 66 are having poorer fuel economy and wet handling so I searched for the best with 67db.

3db more is doubling of noise so 1 or 2db are making a significant difference and it does not matter if the car is well sound proofed like many Lexus (and other luxury car brands) are. Double noise is double noise and 2db less than the CC from Michelin is an improvement that mean al lot while listening to music and especially on longer tours.

We still have enough thread to drive a while but when we need to get new tyres, I will do my best to find tyres with as low noise as possible. Love to listen to music without playing too loud. Music in Lexus cars – just great.

Comfort is another thing that have different value for many of us but a big part of comfort for me is noise level. Softer tyres (like the Michelin) are also influencing the comfort level, but the cars from Lexus most have a rather well set-up suspension and I believe that a car maker know a lot about which tyres are best for the cars they make so when they have Yokohama on many from factory, I will try summer tyres with 67db or hopefully lower – A in rain handling and unfortunately only C (like most other tyres) in fuel economy from that brand. I do not believe that Lexus are being paid to put such tyres on many of their cars.

While still living in the cold north, we had summer tyres on our cars 8 – 9 months and winter tyres rest of the year when needed.

Premium tyres are not cheap, but as mentioned by other people in this forum they are the contact to the road so Bridgestone, Continental, Michelin, Pirelli and Yokohama are limiting the choice we have for new tyres to our premium cars. Probably some other brands have come up since I was working with cars. Bridgestone, Dunlop and GoodYear were also accepted as premium earlier, but where we live these brands are not sold many places for unknown (to me) reasons.

Getting confused? I am!

Search the net and get more confused.

[royoftherovers]

19 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

As most of us need new tyres now and then (except for those changing cars before the tyres are worn out) I have also been searching the internet for all I can find out and it seems that the CC from Michelin are the best all-season tyres with a C for fuel economy (never found one with A rating) and A for handling in wet and a not bad at all 69db result for noise.

 

Have found one with a B rating for fuel, but it also had a B for wet handling. Being able to drive in wet is not something to accept any better rating than A.

 

If noise is something that come in first place, I have found no better tyres than the Michelin CC for all-season tyres.

 

I am lucky enough to live where all-season tyres (which are a compromise between summer- and winter-tyres) are not needed. Summer tyres are often found with 68 and 67 and a few also with 66db in noise level. The ones I have found with 66 are having poorer fuel economy and wet handling so I searched for the best with 67db.

 

3db more is doubling of noise so 1 or 2db are making a significant difference and it does not matter if the car is well sound proofed like many Lexus (and other luxury car brands) are. Double noise is double noise and 2db less than the CC from Michelin is an improvement that mean al lot while listening to music and especially on longer tours.

 

We still have enough thread to drive a while but when we need to get new tyres, I will do my best to find tyres with as low noise as possible. Love to listen to music without playing too loud. Music in Lexus cars – just great.

 

Comfort is another thing that have different value for many of us but a big part of comfort for me is noise level. Softer tyres (like the Michelin) are also influencing the comfort level, but the cars from Lexus most have a rather well set-up suspension and I believe that a car maker know a lot about which tyres are best for the cars they make so when they have Yokohama on many from factory, I will try summer tyres with 67db or hopefully lower – A in rain handling and unfortunately only C (like most other tyres) in fuel economy from that brand. I do not believe that Lexus are being paid to put such tyres on many of their cars.

 

While still living in the cold north, we had summer tyres on our cars 8 – 9 months and winter tyres rest of the year when needed.

 

Premium tyres are not cheap, but as mentioned by other people in this forum they are the contact to the road so Bridgestone, Continental, Michelin, Pirelli and Yokohama are limiting the choice we have for new tyres to our premium cars. Probably some other brands have come up since I was working with cars. Bridgestone, Dunlop and GoodYear were also accepted as premium earlier, but where we live these brands are not sold many places for unknown (to me) reasons.

 

Getting confused? I am!

 

Search the net and get more confused.

Great Essay, John

In my view, Michelin CC `s undoubtedly offer the best all round package.

If one drives consistently within the confines of one`s vehicle specification, one does not need the best tyre for Road Holding or Braking  in the wet or the dry.

Noise however, is different and nobody can tolerate an unnecessary level of decibels regardless of whether one is listening to the Radio or the Road..

[Las Palmas]

46 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Great Essay, John

In my view, Michelin CC `s undoubtedly offer the best all round package.

If one drives consistently within the confines of one`s vehicle specification, one does not need the best tyre for Road Holding or Braking  in the wet or the dry.

Noise however, is different and nobody can tolerate an unnecessary level of decibels regardless of whether one is listening to the Radio or the Road..

So, you think that noise is a premium virtue John (just like I do).

Then the CC are perfect for all-season tyres. Here we just have no need for a compromise between summer and winter tyres, but the best for summer is all we need and summer tyres can be bought with much less noise than all-season tyres. And changing wheels for driving in winter is little work if that get you better tyres for whichever season you are in.

Michelin Primacy 4 91 W XL with 68db is better than the CC with 69db and we stay in the much beloved Michelin brand.

In Yokohama there are Advan dB V552 91 W XL RPB and Advan Fleva V791 91W XL RPB with only 67db and Yokohama is on some Lexus from factory so must be a reasonably good brand too.

Then there is a Debica Presto UHP 91Y XL and also Sava Intensa UHP 91Y XL with both 66db, both brands are unknown to me but the Debica is as expensive as Michelin tyres for whatever reason.

Remember 3db less mean half the noise, not 10 or 25% less. Meaning you do not need to have the audio loud to hear whatever is in the great audio system in our Lexus. Or have a conversation with your passengers without needing to talk loudly.

All mentioned here have C as rolling (fuel economy) and A as handling in rain.

I see no reason to not have the best rating for handling in rain; rolling resistance is C in all tyres I have found.

 

[royoftherovers]

20 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

So, you think that noise is a premium virtue John (just like I do).

Then the CC are perfect for all-season tyres. Here we just have no need for a compromise between summer and winter tyres, but the best for summer is all we need and summer tyres can be bought with much less noise than all-season tyres. And changing wheels for driving in winter is little work if that get you better tyres for whichever season you are in.

Michelin Primacy 4 91 W XL with 68db is better than the CC with 69db and we stay in the much beloved Michelin brand.

In Yokohama there are Advan dB V552 91 W XL RPB and Advan Fleva V791 91W XL RPB with only 67db and Yokohama is on some Lexus from factory so must be a reasonably good brand too.

Then there is a Debica Presto UHP 91Y XL and also Sava Intensa UHP 91Y XL with both 66db, both brands are unknown to me but the Debica is as expensive as Michelin tyres for whatever reason.

Remember 3db less mean half the noise, not 10 or 25% less. Meaning you do not need to have the audio loud to hear whatever is in the great audio system in our Lexus. Or have a conversation with your passengers without needing to talk loudly.

All mentioned here have C as rolling (fuel economy) and A as handling in rain.

I see no reason to not have the best rating for handling in rain and rolling resistance is C in all tyres I have found.

 

Thanks John.

I have had Michelin Primacy Tyres for the first 248,000 miles on my W210 Estate. I rate them highly.

I have replaced them with Maxxis All Weather Tyres which given the mileage, type of driving, cost  and age of the car are fine for me. I have Kumho All Weather Tyres on the Lexus GS. They are also fine for me. For me, Tyres are a compromise between cost and capability, but I must have a quiet Tyre. Many cars are constructed relatively poorly and noise is generated by the Tyres and reverberates through the vehicle contributing to tiredness and headaches etc.

Ford had NVH until recently..Noise, Vibration and Harshness and I could identify with its attempt to reduce the total NVH within its cars.

[NDP]

Hi, I have been following this thread with interest - I am now due to change my tyres and have been considering the Michelin CC's or perhaps Bridgestone weather control. Would you know if the Michelins are classed as 'runflat'? - the reason I ask is that after reading the FAO section on the fitters website is states that cars fitted with TPMS must use 'runflat' type tyres? - anyone any info on this - thanks

Neal

[royoftherovers]

5 minutes ago, NDP said:

Hi, I have been following this thread with interest - I am now due to change my tyres and have been considering the Michelin CC's or perhaps Bridgestone weather control. Would you know if the Michelins are classed as 'runflat'? - the reason I ask is that after reading the FAO section on the fitters website is states that cars fitted with TPMS must use 'runflat' type tyres? - anyone any info on this - thanks

Neal

Sorry Neal, I cannot help.

[NDP]

Thanks all the same Roy

[J Henderson]

21 minutes ago, NDP said:

on the fitters website is states that cars fitted with TPMS must use 'runflat' type tyres?

Neal

I think it's the other way round. A car with runflats must also have TPMS. 

TPMS isn't tied to any particular tyre technology. Many cars with TPMS still have regular tyres.

[LenT]

16 minutes ago, NDP said:

Hi, I have been following this thread with interest - I am now due to change my tyres and have been considering the Michelin CC's or perhaps Bridgestone weather control. Would you know if the Michelins are classed as 'runflat'? - the reason I ask is that after reading the FAO section on the fitters website is states that cars fitted with TPMS must use 'runflat' type tyres? - anyone any info on this - thanks

Neal

I think the general recommendation is that run flats should ONLY be used in conjunction with TPMS valves.  This is to prevent the danger of running unawares on a deflated tyre.

Whether they are a benefit or not is debatable.  Remember, they are restricted to a 50 mile limit and often restricted to around 20mph.  Most tyre dealers will refuse to repair them in the event of a puncture because there’s no way of assessing how much internal damage has been done to the tyre carcass by the wheel rim.

Another disadvantage is that the extra rigidity of the sidewall makes for a more uncomfortable ride by transmitting road imperfections.  The additional weight of the tyres can also affect fuel consumption.

All in all, not such a good choice for standard road cars.

[NDP]

Thanks both for your rapid replies - that makes sense thanks very much.

Now just have to decide on the Michelins or the Bridgestones!!

[Harrier Man]

1 minute ago, NDP said:

Thanks both for your rapid replies - that makes sense thanks very much.

Now just have to decide on the Michelins or the Bridgestones!!

The disadvantages of run-flats mentioned by Len are true, plus they are generally more expensive to buy. That might lead to a decision to go for non run-flats, like the CC but you need to think about the scenario if you do then get a puncture. Rely on the AA? Buy and carry a spare? Consider carrying a kit that seals the puncture and inflates the tyre. All have their disadvantages but, given that punctures are not that common (famous last words), the advantages of 'normal' tyres might win the day.

The 450h+ manual does say on page 624 that the TPWS might not operate if a tyre has been replaced with a tyre that is not an original equipment tyre but others (John & Len) have explained this.

[NDP]

Who remembers the Dunlop Denovo Runflat tyres?!! - Had a Mini in the 70's fitted with these and they seemed a fortune to replace then  - over £50!!

[LenT]

22 minutes ago, Harrier Man said:

The disadvantages of run-flats mentioned by Len are true, plus they are generally more expensive to buy. That might lead to a decision to go for non run-flats, like the CC but you need to think about the scenario if you do then get a puncture. Rely on the AA? Buy and carry a spare? Consider carrying a kit that seals the puncture and inflates the tyre. All have their disadvantages but, given that punctures are not that common (famous last words), the advantages of 'normal' tyres might win the day.

On the one occasion that I had to deal with a damaged tyre (a helpful passerby broke the valve!) I was fortunate enough to have a SpaceSaver - which got me the five minutes to a large tyre retailer.

That’s the solution I would go for.  I wouldn’t even countenance  a sealant solution.  My particular car has different tyre sizes front and rear, so which spare do you carry?  The SpaceSaver is legal on either axle as long as it is used as intended - namely at a restricted speed and distance in order to get to a place where the tyre problem can be resolved.

It is also lighter than a full-sized tyre so makes some contribution to fuel economy!

[Las Palmas]

I have had 2 punctures with rented car, a nail in 2 of the tyres. 1 spare would have helped very little, but there was a sealant. It fixed the problem so I could get to the rental company and get another car.

Renting company say they have never had to come for a car with a puncture as the sealant has made all their cars come to them without problem.

Europcar are renting a lot of cars and when saying so it could mean that sealant will fix close to all "normal" punctures.