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Hi, I am thinking on buying a 2011 IS200D (Not a 220d which seems a lot more common)

I know the 220 gave a lot of problems, but can any one tell me if the 200d is as bad?

The example I am thinking on buying has quite high miles (130k) as it was used for motorway driving but it only has 1 owner and a full lexus service history and in the spec I am after 

As with any newage diesel im guessing DMF/Injectors/DPF/EGR etc are no exception? 

Any advice welcomed, thanks

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There has been a lot written about the IS220D and I have owned one with some of the issues well quoted on this forum.    I now own an IS200D F Sport and have had it for 30 months.   I had a few minor issues when I purchased it from Lexus Lincoln but all were dealt with by the dealer and Lexus warranty.  Its now covered 88K.    I advise you to check the vehicle you intend to buy as you would any other,but in my experience the two models are very different.  Fuel economy is not brilliant , low to mid 40's.   There are still some 220-D hang overs, 6th gear is useless unless on the motorway, its far to long legged. But, on the whole my IS200-D F Sport has been a great and very reliable car.  It drives really well, after all , "its a Lexus".   Just my personal experience and I'm sure there will be a number of differing opinions.  I'm going to upgrade my Lexus shortly and will be sad to see this one go and looking forward to my next Lexus.

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I can say that I have owned my 200d for over 3yrs and not had a single problem with it, fuel economy isn't the best for a diesel but who cares I love this car and intend keeping it for a few more yrs unless a nice ISF comes along..

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 I've had some issues  (radiator leak, suspension, brakes) over the years, which would be the same for the petrol variant.....  but no problems from the engine at all so far  (~80k)... I find it pulls well, quiet and comfortable.. no regrets from me.   

I'm looking at changing to the new ES .. but every time I get out of the ES test drives) and back into my IS200d, I remember how much I  love the more responsive engine, rear wheel drive ... struggling to justify spending money on something that doesn't drive as well as my IS.

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  • 9 months later...

IS200d has all the same "diesel issues" as IS220d or any other diesel car for that matter  - that is EGRs getting stuck, DPF getting stuck and all that diesel goodness. As well there is no reason to suspect that injector issues are solved as it uses same injectors as older model, so if you looking for older car with more miles that will still be an issue. Finally, IS200d still has same weird 6-speed manual (may not be an issue in Europe with 130kph/82MPH limits, but in UK you would have to drive it in 5th gear @70MPH).

What are specific changes on IS200d over IS220d:

  • new headgasket, which addresses the headgasket issues which plagued IS220d
  • de-tuned engine, instead of 179hp it has only 150hp, which potentially reduces some of the issues as engine is less-stressed. At the same time it is slower than old IS220d, because it is less powerful. In theory it is little bit more fuel efficient, but in practice the difference is negligible. Word of warning here - many people take IS200d and then starts looking for engine tuning - this is exactly the thing which you must not do with 200d. Lexus has "fixed" the engine by de-tuning it and by tuning it up you would just reverse that.
  • generally, newer car as it follows IS mk2 facelift.

In summary, IS200d is more reliable than 220d, but is not reliable as diesel car, nor as a car in general.

If you looking for Lexus mk2 then IS250 Automatic is always better than diesel in any possible conditions or circumstances, I appreciate that in other countries there may be advantage of having diesel, but in case of IS mk2 this is just not worth it.

In short - Lexus diesel... just don't do it! That said, in the end of the day if you really definitely need diesel, then go for it. IS200d is improved version of IS220d and is not as bad, but any other make diesel is better option. So - do what you need to do, but you have been warned 🙂 

 

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1 hour ago, TheHairyBeast said:

Doesnt the IS200D have the same engine as the IS220D 2.2L but they just labeld it as 200D?

not quite,

IS220d has - 2AD-FHV 179 PS (132 kW; 177 hp) at 4000 rpm, 400 Nm/295 lb⋅ft at 2600 rpm

and IS200d has - 2AD-FTV 150 PS (110 kW; 148 hp) at 3600 rpm, 310 Nm/229 lb⋅ft at 3200 rpm

Toyota code names for engines are not the best, so it is difficult to say what is the actual difference between the two. 2AD simply means that both are 2nd generation AD series engines. The rest of the codes are mostly useless:

F - Economy narrow-angle valve DOHC
H - High compression, High-pressure charged
T - Turbocharged
V - Common Rail Diesel Injection (D-4D)

So FHV is high pressure and FTV is turbocharged common rail diesel... yet both are actually turbocharged and both are common rail diesels...

However, based on components used IS200d technically has "downgraded" engine (not improved), e.g. simpler injectors, EGR and DPF. But injectors works at lower pressure, EGR construction is simpler (no injection in EGR) etc. So overall, the engine is simpler, but perhaps more reliable.

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3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

not quite,

IS220d has - 2AD-FHV 179 PS (132 kW; 177 hp) at 4000 rpm, 400 Nm/295 lb⋅ft at 2600 rpm

and IS200d has - 2AD-FTV 150 PS (110 kW; 148 hp) at 3600 rpm, 310 Nm/229 lb⋅ft at 3200 rpm

Toyota code names for engines are not the best, so it is difficult to say what is the actual difference between the two. 2AD simply means that both are 2nd generation AD series engines. The rest of the codes are mostly useless:

F - Economy narrow-angle valve DOHC
H - High compression, High-pressure charged
T - Turbocharged
V - Common Rail Diesel Injection (D-4D)

So FHV is high pressure and FTV is turbocharged common rail diesel... yet both are actually turbocharged and both are common rail diesels...

However, based on components used IS200d technically has "downgraded" engine (not improved), e.g. simpler injectors, EGR and DPF. But injectors works at lower pressure, EGR construction is simpler (no injection in EGR) etc. So overall, the engine is simpler, but perhaps more reliable.

Oh I didnt know they changed all that stuff on the 200D.

My IS220d sports only got 24k miles rn and back in 2008 had a new engine put in it by a Toyota dealership, and ive also got a tune on mines which seems to actually give it a 30-40bhp boost and car feels amazing.

The gearbox in the sports compared to any of the other lines is much better, I drove a SE-L and that had too much turbo lag and the gearbox wasnt that great either.

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Hi guys thank you for the info on the IS200d

I objectively take in and appreciate it all 

I bought the diesel as there is no real alternative in the present in this country with the lack of infrastructure and financial support for electric and the geographical  industry push towards retaining petrol engines with a hybrid power train so as not to hurt any current motor company or its suppliers for the bountiful European market 

The motor industry is never to be trusted to supply anything other than what gives it the least financial pain for as long as possible 

At least the Hybrid is a “development” but for me it’s a stepping stone which I personally don’t need - nice to drive;  but I prefer owning than renting 

Best regards 

 

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On 11/21/2020 at 7:07 PM, daisellex said:

220d with upgraded gasket and remap pulls 215hp /470Nm leaving 250 pensioners scooter far behind 😄

No it doesn't, it just leaves your DERV in the puddle of oil and trail of black smoke behind you 😄

On 11/23/2020 at 3:19 PM, TheHairyBeast said:

What type of tune you got on yours?

It is called "self destruct button".

Turbo Diesels are inherently highly tunable for few reasons. One is that they already have turbos, so simply adding more air and more fuel makes more POWWWA! Secondly, because most of existing TD engines are tuned with quite big reserve in power so that they can last quite long time. Any tuning is always balance between reliability and power, but reasonable tuning could make car more powerful without compromising much on reliability.

Neither of these benefits applies for 2AD-FHV, because it is inherently unreliable and bad engine - Lexus already took it past reasonable compromise from the factory and it is simply not fit to do even the 179hp. This is exactly reason why Lexus detuned the engine to fix it and hence why 2AD-FTV exists. 150hp is the most this engine can do whilst staying somewhat reliable. Could you take it to 215hp... I guess you can... you can probably even take it above that... but this means your engine just going to be more likely to grenade itself even more immanently than otherwise.

I have seen some many such DERV racer wanabees with deleted DPFs claiming to have opened pandora boxes with their IS220d, just to see the cars being shifted for £500 with "engine defects".

Conclusion - if you want to tune TD engine and make power, at least take reliable one as a basis... not the one which already barely works even at the standard tune.

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3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

No it doesn't, it just leaves your DERV in the puddle of oil and trail of black smoke behind you 😄

It is called "self destruct button".

Turbo Diesels are inherently highly tunable for few reasons. One is that they already have turbos, so simply adding more air and more fuel makes more POWWWA! Secondly, because most of existing TD engines are tuned with quite big reserve in power so that they can last quite long time. Any tuning is always balance between reliability and power, but reasonable tuning could make car more powerful without compromising much on reliability.

Neither of these benefits applies for 2AD-FHV, because it is inherently unreliable and bad engine - Lexus already took it past reasonable compromise from the factory and it is simply not fit to do even the 179hp. This is exactly reason why Lexus detuned the engine to fix it and hence why 2AD-FTV exists. 150hp is the most this engine can do whilst staying somewhat reliable. Could you take it to 215hp... I guess you can... you can probably even take it above that... but this means your engine just going to be more likely to grenade itself even more immanently than otherwise.

I have seen some many such DERV racer wanabees with deleted DPFs claiming to have opened pandora boxes with their IS220d, just to see the cars being shifted for £500 with "engine defects".

Conclusion - if you want to tune TD engine and make power, at least take reliable one as a basis... not the one which already barely works even at the standard tune.

Ive got a chip box on mines thats got eco, sports and race modes. Found that race mode actually made the throttle reponse much better and felt even more sportier, eco mode really made no difference to the mpg and ive always got it on sport as it provides a nice and linear power increase with it being not too notchy with the throttle.

Had this chip on for nearly 3 years and cars been fine, welll maintained by myself and putting in Costcos premium diesel which actually seems to be better than most of fuel stations diesel, and had no dpf or egr issues as of yet...

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am not hater, but objectively diesel is not great fuel for application such as private vehicles (especially in the city). I still think that diesel is best fuel for long range driving, but it needs very specific conditions i.e. long continuous journeys at consistent speeds. That is why it is great fuel for trucks and long distance freight in general. However, the reality majority of population are clueless and ignorant, they choose diesel because of headline MPG figures which are neither achievable nor matter. People do not consider the use of the car and these cars ends up doing 5 mile shopping trips which literally kills the engine withing 20k miles - DPF, EGR, turbo... and these are just diesel cars in general.

Lexus IS220d/200d is by far the worst car Lexus ever made - there is no discussion about it, so don't think this something we can argue about, it is a fact. On top of normal diesel issues in Lexus you get head-gasket issues and injector issues as well. Comparing it with IS250 is pointless and stupid, IS250 is bulletproof car without any reliability issues and on top of that requires almost no maintenanc (where it does e.g. brake calipers - that as well applies to IS220d)  And the maintenance aspect is important - yes you can run IS220d by cleaning EGR every 6k miles, probably cutting out DPF (which is illegal and I think should be criminal offence), upgrading head-gasket etc. Yes all cool if you can do it yourself, but average owner can't. This means either car is going to grenade itself or you will have to have it in service twice a year for £500 EGR clean and DPF regen at least. When you add this £1000 of extra maintenance on top of you fuel costs, the IS250 turns out to be cheaper to run... and on top of that it sounds better, runs 10 times smoother and is more responsive.

There are exceptions where IS220d/200d could be better if sound, smoothness and response is not important for you, but they are rare and far between. So in short, if you really can justify diesel (i.e. you doing 30k+ miles a year exclusively on motorway) then just simply get any other diesel car, almost anything will be better than Lexus in this case. Surely, I don't know all diesel cars and there may be other risky options, but common options from BMW, Audi and MB are far far better.

So in the ends I am not diesel hater, but you are certainly delusional diesel apologist. I would not be surprised if you stand to gain something from it (maybe next thing you should offer is chip-tunning), otherwise I don't see reason why you would be so hellbent to prove that worst Lexus ever made is good choice for somebody. 

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By sayng its the worst engine/car lexus ever made is cleary an exaggeration and not true. First gen is200 is worse.

Head gasket issue was fixed free of charge by factory extended warranty 180k km. 

Diesel engine needs more maintenance but this is the same on all makes. Every make has its problems, Audi/VW have a weak turbo chargers, engine eats oil/rings worn out/timing chains, MB have issues with injector washers burning in and BMW is overall least realible out there.

IS250 bulletproof, really??? VVTI cam gear fail? Carbon buildup? Burning oil like crazy after 100k km, piston rings seized up, that is a known issue - full engine rebuild. Fuel pumps going out and are very pricy to replase, auto boxes not in their first youth and failing. I would say its not any better than is220, probably even worse.

And what about fuel consumtion? if you drive mostly in urban areas is250 takes twice as much as is220. Not to mention is250 is slow as f**k.

EGR needs cleaning once a year/or every 20k km, it takes half an hour and a can of brake cleaner not £500, what a joke. DPF does not need any maintenace, it takes care for itself. When force regeneration is needed then there is something wrong with injectors.

Where in hell did you take that remapped/gutted engine would going to grenade itself? Did you see that happen or this is another exaggeration because you clearly just hate any diesel out there. I have seen only BMW engine to explode but that was just chain worn out and owner pushed it to the max.

ECU can be remapped with EGR/DPF still in place and working fine, this is the recommended route. Cutting DPF is already last move when its clogged and does not work. I personally would never do that, engine starts to smoke and smell very bad + illegal etc.

I have been driving this car for over 10 years, remaped last 4. Only regret is that I did not remap it sooner. It feels truly like different car, but it wasnt bad before either. Also gears feel better, a known issue with manual models. 

Never has there been a EGR/DPF/injector related issue. Ofcourse the head gasket. I replaced that and out of my pocket because warranty was over but thats ok. Used and checked engine costs about 1k if that ever needs to be changed. Or use swap from other models/makes.

I have other cars I use daily, also turbo diesels. Audi a6 - that has lot of work being done, new turbo, timing chains, injector, DPF cleaning ect, all normal diesel issues. This one is not remaped.

Ford van - modified intake and remaped from 75hp to 110hp since new and NO engine/diesel related issues for 10 years.

 

 

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This is one of the most ridiculous statements on this forum for a while:

On 12/17/2020 at 6:00 PM, daisellex said:

I would say its not any better than is220, probably even worse.

Not to mention is250 is slow as f**k.

I am sorry to inform you that literally nobody going to agree with you on this. IS250 is not the most reliable car ever made, but it is not even in the same universe as IS220d. IS250 is probably somewhere towards the top of most reliable cars of all time, not top 10, but probably somewhere in top 50. IS220d is exactly opposite... not the most unreliable car ever made, but for modern car it is very close to it. And as a matter of fact IS250 is faster than IS220d as well, so you just wrong and that is not a matter of opinion either.

Now I probably should end here, as your statements clearly shows that it would be hard to reason with you, but I have silly habit to always answer in full... so here we go:

1. IS mk1 was overall successful model, reliable and competitive for it's time. How it is worse than IS220d? Yes mk2 is 8 years never, so it will be more modern, but apart of that I am really struggling to understand what definition of "worse" you are using?

2. Head gasket issue was accepted by Lexus as design flaw and they extended the warranty for it, but it wasn't unconditional 180k km. To start with you must have FLSH and extended warranty for it to be replaced for up-to 160k miles. Otherwise, they have extended it to 100k/10years instead of standard 60k/5year.

3. All issues you mentioned with 4GR-FSE are exceptions, or non-existent until you get to very high mileage... and I am talking 100k/200k miles, in some cases 300k miles and more. So they are not design flaws like in case of IS220d, they simply indicate that we live in reality and in mechanical system there is such thing as wear and tear, some parts will last longer than others and things you mentioned are probably the areas where issues will start showing up first:

  • VVTI cam gear fail 200k miles+ (it is TSB in US, but not here), not seen any IS250 in UK failing prematurely because of this issue. The issue itself is actually mostly about engine getting noisy, but otherwise no a serious issue.
  • Carbon build-up is an issue with all DI, but that does not destroy the engine and again it only becomes meaningful at very high mileage and more relevant in US
  • Burning oil like "crazy" and stuck piston rings - this is not backed up by anything, there may be engines with poor maintenance which are worn out on any make or model, but that is not generally common issue with these engines. I am yet to see a person who had to rebuild 4GR-FSE under 300k miles.
  • Fuel pumps do fail on all cars regardless of the make, we need to realise that IS250 is getting to 15 years now and fuel pump failure is realistic age related issue. Is it common issue? No it isn't, but it does happen and yes they are pricey.
  • Auto boxes failing, you mean AISIN A960E? No they are not, they are as reliable as any autobox... Yes Lexus "lifetime" fluid is only good for ~100k miles, but that is not a "weak point" regardless how you look at it. Except of what can be considered basic maintenance there are no other issues with this box.

Overall, up to 120k miles 4GR-FSE +A960E can go without any maintenance except of oils, filters, fluids and other things included in standard maintenance schedule e.g. water pump, spark plugs and similar. It is truly reliable combo and it is known to easily run 200-300k miles if maintained properly. That is about 10 times more that IS220d is known to last without issues... there were blow head-gaskets reported at a little as 12k miles. And you trying to compare them?!

Obviously, now it would be time to do reverse comparison to IS220d, but it is pointless - we all know for every weakness IS250 has, there will be 5 issues with IS220d and they will be serious issues making car completely undrivable, not just noisy cam gears. Besides, just looking to manual box you have issues related to that alone - DMF issues, clutch related issue, gerbox oil changes every 40k miles. All expensive jobs which completely do not exist on Auto model.

4. Fuel consumption again is great for 2.5L petrol V6 automatic. It is not exceptional, but that is as much as you can expect from the combo. On motorway you can easily reach 40MPG and in the city on would be able to achieve ~26-28MPG. Yes indeed in IS220d you can get probably around 50MPG on motorway, but there isn't much difference in the city, maybe 30-32MPG on good day. If I am not mistaken then 4MPG difference is not "double". At this point I have a question - have you even driven IS250? I am not expecting you own one, but at least driven?

5. What I said about remap, was that if you map it to what you claim (215hp) it won't last long, so my assumption is either that you are exaggerating the power or reliability. And even then 7hp not going to make IS220d exactly fast car, just barely keep-up with IS250 at best. Apart of that I am not against remapping - they usually can reduce consumption and increase power a little bit, if we talking about the engine which is solid to start with (at this point 1.9TDI comes to mind).

6. Regarding EGR, as I said you just assuming that everyone will be wrenching on their own tractors - I agree it is 30min job if you do it yourself. However, DYI is out of question when it comes to comparison - take it to service and you will pay a lot of money for it to be done and that adds to maintenance costs. As well it only lasts 12k miles if you are on motorway as I said before. If you driving it in the city, then expect it to be dirty in half time.

It is clear that you coming from some sort of diesel forum where everyone are looking for reasons to justify and exaggerate their chip-tuning prowess, but we don't need this heresy here. Even Lexus learned that their diesels sucks and dropped it from their cars forever, so it is about the time to accept it for everyone else.

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Clearly we have different opinions but thats ok.

I agree with that IS250 being overall as smoother and more carefree car to drive and own, espec if you are not into DIY fixing/maitenance.

I disagree to that diesel is to be avoided like death, like widely spead out here.

About the speed. I have owned IS250 aswell for short period ot time and actually it is not any faster than is220 from factory, as it states. They are about the same. Depends lot on the driver. City consumtion on petrol was about 14l/100km(17 MPG), diesel shows about 8l/100km(30 MPG), its almost twice more. On motorway the difference is not that much.

After remap diesel is faster, we are talking about 215hp at the wheels not at the crank. Probably yes that does not do any good to engine lifespan.

Maybe UK cars are differently/better serviced but many IS250 here start to consume 1L of engine oil per 1000km after 100k, only fix is complete engine rebuild, wich costs many times more than diesel engine head gasket change.

They dropped diesel mainly beacuse it didnt suite lexus brand users expectations and luxury image. In the end of the day its just rebranded toyota, most of them are diesels. If they had bigger/better diesel engine to put under the bonnet that may have been different story.

 

 

 

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An informative and sometimes exciting exchange of views contained herein.

I recall HJ describing the IS 250 straight six petrol as "the most reliable car on the Plant"

My 2003 Merc E Class 220Diesel auto has covered just short of 1/4 million miles without any emission problems. It has its original Engine, Transmission and Exhaust System.

There are both good and bad fuel systems with both good and bad maintenance.

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4 minutes ago, TheHairyBeast said:

Ive heard mercs are a nightmare to work on and the new mercs arent that reliable as some of the older ones.

Quite correct Firaz. I would not recommend a Merc or its Dealerships to anyone.

Second hand from Indies with fsh before end of 2009 are ok.

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2 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

An informative and sometimes exciting exchange of views contained herein.

I recall HJ describing the IS 250 straight six petrol as "the most reliable car on the Plant"

Yes it seems we knocking off some rough edges. I think HJ had in mind straight six from mk1 IS300, that is certainly on of the most reliable engines. IS250 has v6 which is still good, but it has some shortcomings - like no port injection meaning there are issues with carbon build-up on intake valves in particular. But this issue is far overblown by US experience due to trash petrol they use there and far less of an issue in UK. Obviously, ideal solution would be to have port-injection like on IS350 (2GR-FSE).

5 hours ago, daisellex said:

Clearly we have different opinions but thats ok.

I agree with that IS250 being overall as smoother and more carefree car to drive and own, espec if you are not into DIY fixing/maitenance.

I disagree to that diesel is to be avoided like death, like widely spead out here.

About the speed. I have owned IS250 aswell for short period ot time and actually it is not any faster than is220 from factory, as it states. They are about the same. Depends lot on the driver. City consumtion on petrol was about 14l/100km(17 MPG), diesel shows about 8l/100km(30 MPG), its almost twice more. On motorway the difference is not that much.

After remap diesel is faster, we are talking about 215hp at the wheels not at the crank. Probably yes that does not do any good to engine lifespan.

Clearly...

So we kind of agree on this one, how comes you just said IS220d is "probably even better"?

Regarding the speed it is just simply not true, you really trying to tell me that 177BHP car is "just as fast" as 208BHP car?! No it is not... IS250 does easy ~7.5s 0-60, IS220d does not even break 8s, even chipped ones. Equally, 215WHP is not realistic on IS220d - yes TD are highly unable but your claim of say 260BHP is just outside of reality. I would say ~10% more power would be good yardstick - so 190-200BHP whilst still improving economy and reducing smoking is achievable... but it has to be solid engine to begin with, everything in order etc. Certainly not the case for majority of used IS220ds. 215WHP/260BHP - get out of here man!

Equally you overstate fuel consumption on IS250 by a lot! I used to live in metric country as well and I had 2 IS250s before I came to UK. One was brand new 2012 F-Sport and second one was ~40k miles US import IS250 AWD and have never seen 14l/100km... never! If you really launching at every traffic light.. 12l/100km is as high as it gets and even that was AWD model which I really didn't like, it was just sluggish and fuel consumption was much worse than RWD. In UK I have never seen fuel consumption below 22MPG... this is absolute minimum! I guess you can get below that if you deliberately trying, but not in normal circumstances. Although, I never looked at "current" fuel consumption as it is just not reliable - so my all claims are for brim to brim, full tank.

If engine burns 1l per 1000km then it is only good for scrapping... this is not normal and definitely not the case with most IS250. This is territory of Mazda rotary engines. if you say 1l per 10k.. then I would believe it. Again I owned 3 different IS250.. one started with 68km on the clock and I sold it at around 23k km. Second one 43k miles - 92k km and last one was UK car - bought at 122k miles sold at 192k miles. It was burning some oil, but it was ~0.6l/10k miles... what you saying is that apparently I should have been driving with bottle of oil in the boot and adding 0.5l every other time I filled the tank! Certainly not the case. In UK nowadays is hard to find IS250 below 60k miles (because that would be extremely low mileage for 15 years car), so with your claim of 100k+ km this means almost all IS250s in UK should be burning oil... again not the case.

 

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Why would anyone be interested in a diesel Lexus?? It is against everything that the brand stands for and the only reason the car came to market was opportunism from the marketingdepartment. Diesels then ruled the company car market and toyota had an engine available so lets try to get some sales. Engineers then were dead against it as the engines just destroyed the Noise Vibration Harshness philosophy Lexus was known for. On top of that reliability proved to be way below Lexus standard and after some time the model was axed. It did more damage to the brand than justified complaints alone...

I drove an IS 250 for 4 years and 100k miles and nothing ever went wrong. No vibrations from the engine, buttersmooth , super silent and enough power. Low end torque to be desired but from 3500 rpm enough. A true joy to glide through town, the gearbox matches the engine in smoothness and acceleration from standstill is like there is a cloud between your shoe and the pedal. Linear, smooth, effortless.

Lifting a mediocre diesel engine into a Lexus was a mistake.   

A Lexus withe a diesel engine is not a Lexus.

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Except mk2 is ground-up dedicated Lexus model and does not share platform with Toyota. It does share some parts with larger Toyotas like Avensis/Avalon, but it is "true" Lexus.

If you compare them side by side e.g. top of the range Avensis and Lexus IS250... there is no comparison. Lexus materials, build quality, equipment level is on completely different level. IS is ground-up RWD performance car, Toyota Avensis is ground-up FWD economy car. So no - IS mk is not an "overpriced" Toyota Avenis (not corolla for sure) - it is dedicated Luxury car, built on it's own platform.

It is sad they found reason to fit it with engine which was not good even for Toyota... yet they found no reason to bring IS350 here. Real shame that is. 

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