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IS200D - How reliable compared to 220d?

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Hi, I am thinking on buying a 2011 IS200D (Not a 220d which seems a lot more common)

I know the 220 gave a lot of problems, but can any one tell me if the 200d is as bad?

The example I am thinking on buying has quite high miles (130k) as it was used for motorway driving but it only has 1 owner and a full lexus service history and in the spec I am after 

As with any newage diesel im guessing DMF/Injectors/DPF/EGR etc are no exception? 

Any advice welcomed, thanks

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There has been a lot written about the IS220D and I have owned one with some of the issues well quoted on this forum.    I now own an IS200D F Sport and have had it for 30 months.   I had a few minor issues when I purchased it from Lexus Lincoln but all were dealt with by the dealer and Lexus warranty.  Its now covered 88K.    I advise you to check the vehicle you intend to buy as you would any other,but in my experience the two models are very different.  Fuel economy is not brilliant , low to mid 40's.   There are still some 220-D hang overs, 6th gear is useless unless on the motorway, its far to long legged. But, on the whole my IS200-D F Sport has been a great and very reliable car.  It drives really well, after all , "its a Lexus".   Just my personal experience and I'm sure there will be a number of differing opinions.  I'm going to upgrade my Lexus shortly and will be sad to see this one go and looking forward to my next Lexus.

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I can say that I have owned my 200d for over 3yrs and not had a single problem with it, fuel economy isn't the best for a diesel but who cares I love this car and intend keeping it for a few more yrs unless a nice ISF comes along..

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 I've had some issues  (radiator leak, suspension, brakes) over the years, which would be the same for the petrol variant.....  but no problems from the engine at all so far  (~80k)... I find it pulls well, quiet and comfortable.. no regrets from me.   

I'm looking at changing to the new ES .. but every time I get out of the ES test drives) and back into my IS200d, I remember how much I  love the more responsive engine, rear wheel drive ... struggling to justify spending money on something that doesn't drive as well as my IS.

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I love my 2012 IS200d Advance

my heart and more importantly my head is now sold on Lexus 

I have researched and discovered more bad things with the competition 

 

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IS200d has all the same "diesel issues" as IS220d or any other diesel car for that matter  - that is EGRs getting stuck, DPF getting stuck and all that diesel goodness. As well there is no reason to suspect that injector issues are solved as it uses same injectors as older model, so if you looking for older car with more miles that will still be an issue. Finally, IS200d still has same weird 6-speed manual (may not be an issue in Europe with 130kph/82MPH limits, but in UK you would have to drive it in 5th gear @70MPH).

What are specific changes on IS200d over IS220d:

  • new headgasket, which addresses the headgasket issues which plagued IS220d
  • de-tuned engine, instead of 179hp it has only 150hp, which potentially reduces some of the issues as engine is less-stressed. At the same time it is slower than old IS220d, because it is less powerful. In theory it is little bit more fuel efficient, but in practice the difference is negligible. Word of warning here - many people take IS200d and then starts looking for engine tuning - this is exactly the thing which you must not do with 200d. Lexus has "fixed" the engine by de-tuning it and by tuning it up you would just reverse that.
  • generally, newer car as it follows IS mk2 facelift.

In summary, IS200d is more reliable than 220d, but is not reliable as diesel car, nor as a car in general.

If you looking for Lexus mk2 then IS250 Automatic is always better than diesel in any possible conditions or circumstances, I appreciate that in other countries there may be advantage of having diesel, but in case of IS mk2 this is just not worth it.

In short - Lexus diesel... just don't do it! That said, in the end of the day if you really definitely need diesel, then go for it. IS200d is improved version of IS220d and is not as bad, but any other make diesel is better option. So - do what you need to do, but you have been warned 🙂 

 

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Doesnt the IS200D have the same engine as the IS220D 2.2L but they just labeld it as 200D?

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1 hour ago, TheHairyBeast said:

Doesnt the IS200D have the same engine as the IS220D 2.2L but they just labeld it as 200D?

not quite,

IS220d has - 2AD-FHV 179 PS (132 kW; 177 hp) at 4000 rpm, 400 Nm/295 lb⋅ft at 2600 rpm

and IS200d has - 2AD-FTV 150 PS (110 kW; 148 hp) at 3600 rpm, 310 Nm/229 lb⋅ft at 3200 rpm

Toyota code names for engines are not the best, so it is difficult to say what is the actual difference between the two. 2AD simply means that both are 2nd generation AD series engines. The rest of the codes are mostly useless:

F - Economy narrow-angle valve DOHC
H - High compression, High-pressure charged
T - Turbocharged
V - Common Rail Diesel Injection (D-4D)

So FHV is high pressure and FTV is turbocharged common rail diesel... yet both are actually turbocharged and both are common rail diesels...

However, based on components used IS200d technically has "downgraded" engine (not improved), e.g. simpler injectors, EGR and DPF. But injectors works at lower pressure, EGR construction is simpler (no injection in EGR) etc. So overall, the engine is simpler, but perhaps more reliable.

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3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

not quite,

IS220d has - 2AD-FHV 179 PS (132 kW; 177 hp) at 4000 rpm, 400 Nm/295 lb⋅ft at 2600 rpm

and IS200d has - 2AD-FTV 150 PS (110 kW; 148 hp) at 3600 rpm, 310 Nm/229 lb⋅ft at 3200 rpm

Toyota code names for engines are not the best, so it is difficult to say what is the actual difference between the two. 2AD simply means that both are 2nd generation AD series engines. The rest of the codes are mostly useless:

F - Economy narrow-angle valve DOHC
H - High compression, High-pressure charged
T - Turbocharged
V - Common Rail Diesel Injection (D-4D)

So FHV is high pressure and FTV is turbocharged common rail diesel... yet both are actually turbocharged and both are common rail diesels...

However, based on components used IS200d technically has "downgraded" engine (not improved), e.g. simpler injectors, EGR and DPF. But injectors works at lower pressure, EGR construction is simpler (no injection in EGR) etc. So overall, the engine is simpler, but perhaps more reliable.

Oh I didnt know they changed all that stuff on the 200D.

My IS220d sports only got 24k miles rn and back in 2008 had a new engine put in it by a Toyota dealership, and ive also got a tune on mines which seems to actually give it a 30-40bhp boost and car feels amazing.

The gearbox in the sports compared to any of the other lines is much better, I drove a SE-L and that had too much turbo lag and the gearbox wasnt that great either.

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220d with upgraded gasket and remap pulls 215hp /470Nm leaving 250 pensioners scooter far behind :D

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Hi guys thank you for the info on the IS200d

I objectively take in and appreciate it all 

I bought the diesel as there is no real alternative in the present in this country with the lack of infrastructure and financial support for electric and the geographical  industry push towards retaining petrol engines with a hybrid power train so as not to hurt any current motor company or its suppliers for the bountiful European market 

The motor industry is never to be trusted to supply anything other than what gives it the least financial pain for as long as possible 

At least the Hybrid is a “development” but for me it’s a stepping stone which I personally don’t need - nice to drive;  but I prefer owning than renting 

Best regards 

 

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On 11/21/2020 at 7:07 PM, daisellex said:

220d with upgraded gasket and remap pulls 215hp /470Nm leaving 250 pensioners scooter far behind 😄

What type of tune you got on yours?

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On 11/21/2020 at 7:07 PM, daisellex said:

220d with upgraded gasket and remap pulls 215hp /470Nm leaving 250 pensioners scooter far behind 😄

No it doesn't, it just leaves your DERV in the puddle of oil and trail of black smoke behind you 😄

On 11/23/2020 at 3:19 PM, TheHairyBeast said:

What type of tune you got on yours?

It is called "self destruct button".

Turbo Diesels are inherently highly tunable for few reasons. One is that they already have turbos, so simply adding more air and more fuel makes more POWWWA! Secondly, because most of existing TD engines are tuned with quite big reserve in power so that they can last quite long time. Any tuning is always balance between reliability and power, but reasonable tuning could make car more powerful without compromising much on reliability.

Neither of these benefits applies for 2AD-FHV, because it is inherently unreliable and bad engine - Lexus already took it past reasonable compromise from the factory and it is simply not fit to do even the 179hp. This is exactly reason why Lexus detuned the engine to fix it and hence why 2AD-FTV exists. 150hp is the most this engine can do whilst staying somewhat reliable. Could you take it to 215hp... I guess you can... you can probably even take it above that... but this means your engine just going to be more likely to grenade itself even more immanently than otherwise.

I have seen some many such DERV racer wanabees with deleted DPFs claiming to have opened pandora boxes with their IS220d, just to see the cars being shifted for £500 with "engine defects".

Conclusion - if you want to tune TD engine and make power, at least take reliable one as a basis... not the one which already barely works even at the standard tune.

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3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

No it doesn't, it just leaves your DERV in the puddle of oil and trail of black smoke behind you 😄

It is called "self destruct button".

Turbo Diesels are inherently highly tunable for few reasons. One is that they already have turbos, so simply adding more air and more fuel makes more POWWWA! Secondly, because most of existing TD engines are tuned with quite big reserve in power so that they can last quite long time. Any tuning is always balance between reliability and power, but reasonable tuning could make car more powerful without compromising much on reliability.

Neither of these benefits applies for 2AD-FHV, because it is inherently unreliable and bad engine - Lexus already took it past reasonable compromise from the factory and it is simply not fit to do even the 179hp. This is exactly reason why Lexus detuned the engine to fix it and hence why 2AD-FTV exists. 150hp is the most this engine can do whilst staying somewhat reliable. Could you take it to 215hp... I guess you can... you can probably even take it above that... but this means your engine just going to be more likely to grenade itself even more immanently than otherwise.

I have seen some many such DERV racer wanabees with deleted DPFs claiming to have opened pandora boxes with their IS220d, just to see the cars being shifted for £500 with "engine defects".

Conclusion - if you want to tune TD engine and make power, at least take reliable one as a basis... not the one which already barely works even at the standard tune.

Ive got a chip box on mines thats got eco, sports and race modes. Found that race mode actually made the throttle reponse much better and felt even more sportier, eco mode really made no difference to the mpg and ive always got it on sport as it provides a nice and linear power increase with it being not too notchy with the throttle.

Had this chip on for nearly 3 years and cars been fine, welll maintained by myself and putting in Costcos premium diesel which actually seems to be better than most of fuel stations diesel, and had no dpf or egr issues as of yet...

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