B1RMA

Premium fuel cost/benefit for F cars

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Yesterday I went to fill the RCF up with fuel, popped into my local Shell garage and V-Power was £1.21 per litre, I thought that's a bit steep so I only put £10 worth in. Just down the road is a Tesco where they had 99 Momentum for £1.09 per litre so I filled it up there.

I don't want to start the inevitable debate about the use of V-Power as from experience all of my grey import Japanese cars from way back when all ran like s**t on anything else, plus when my RX7 was set up on the rolling road it was done on the early version of V-Power called Optimax. I have also bought V-Power as much for it's cleaning additives as anything else.

What made me think about this was, do the two combustion cycles the engine on the RCF does it mean that the engine is capable of cleaning itself from the type of build-up I previously bought V-Power to do? if so I can save a few bob from here on in. I know I'm being tight but to me it seems a bit OTT the price difference of 12p a litre.

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Direct and port injection, so pretty good I would assume 

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34 minutes ago, Flytvr said:

Direct and port injection, so pretty good I would assume 

I seem to remember on the Savage-geese video on the RCF he mentioned that the carbon build-up wouldn't occur like on Audi's etc but it didn't go into much technical detail. As he is very knowledgable about cars I assumed he was correct, just need to have a bit more info, although a 12p a litre difference is swaying me more.

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51 minutes ago, B1RMA said:

I seem to remember on the Savage-geese video on the RCF he mentioned that the carbon build-up wouldn't occur like on Audi's etc but it didn't go into much technical detail. As he is very knowledgable about cars I assumed he was correct, just need to have a bit more info, although a 12p a litre difference is swaying me more.

Yes I believe he does say this, german cars of this ilk are terrible for carbon build up. One of the reasons I went for the Lexus.

I must admit I've only used premium a couple of times, given its normally aspirated, I've read there is little point in using posh stuff. I stay clear of supermarket fuel however (rightly or wrongly)

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I believe you only experience a slight increase in performance right at the top of the rev range. I rarely take my car to the redline so have always gone with normal unleaded (shell) as per the owners manual. The engine has direct and port injection which eliminates carbon build up unlike Audi V8's etc.

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21 hours ago, Silkmen said:

I believe you only experience a slight increase in performance right at the top of the rev range. I rarely take my car to the redline so have always gone with normal unleaded (shell) as per the owners manual. The engine has direct and port injection which eliminates carbon build up unlike Audi V8's etc.

My GSF manual states premium 98 Octane.

On 4/5/2020 at 12:01 PM, B1RMA said:

What made me think about this was, do the two combustion cycles the engine on the RCF does it mean that the engine is capable of cleaning itself from the type of build-up I previously bought V-Power to do? if so I can save a few bob from here on in. I know I'm being tight but to me it seems a bit OTT the price difference of 12p a litre.

If it is Carbon build up that you are concerned of, then it will take many, many years and many, many miles for you to see any difference between using 95 and 99 - certainly longer of which it appears that you usually hold onto a vehicle.

If it is about advanced timing on the ECU then that is a totally new and expansive topic altogether, of which, in a nutshell the benefits of 99 would be harvested, albeit, marginal.

I am a bit of a Vpower guy, but purely because it is so accessible, however, recently, momentum has been the tipple of choice, no difference at all.

Not wanting to make a topic of this point however, I have spoken with and read a considerable more thumbs up from folk rating BP 97. My experience has been limited with the BP 97 however, the experience that I had was that it was not as economical as the VPower.

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35 minutes ago, Fair and square said:

My GSF manual states premium 98 Octane.

If it is Carbon build up that you are concerned of, then it will take many, many years and many, many miles for you to see any difference between using 95 and 99 - certainly longer of which it appears that you usually hold onto a vehicle.

If it is about advanced timing on the ECU then that is a totally new and expansive topic altogether, of which, in a nutshell the benefits of 99 would be harvested, albeit, marginal.

I am a bit of a Vpower guy, but purely because it is so accessible, however, recently, momentum has been the tipple of choice, no difference at all.

Not wanting to make a topic of this point however, I have spoken with and read a considerable more thumbs up from folk rating BP 97. My experience has been limited with the BP 97 however, the experience that I had was that it was not as economical as the VPower.

Yes like you I'm convinced it's a good fuel and have been buying V-power since it's release when it was called Optimax as my grey import Japanese cars just didn't run on regular 4 star very well.

With the price gap locally for me of 12p a litre between Tesco Momentum and V-Power (not sure about BP as there is not one local) it is becoming more and more obvious that the saving has to take priority. I just needed to convince myself that the cleaning agents could be left out.

Having said that I ran my diesel vans on three tanks of cheap supermarket diesel then one tank of V-Power diesel with one of them now on 130K miles and never a problem it seems to work. So I may just use Momentum in my RCF then every 10th fill buy V-Pwer seems a reasonable compromise.

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6 hours ago, Fair and square said:

My GSF manual states premium 98 Octane.

If it is Carbon build up that you are concerned of, then it will take many, many years and many, many miles for you to see any difference between using 95 and 99 - certainly longer of which it appears that you usually hold onto a vehicle.

If it is about advanced timing on the ECU then that is a totally new and expansive topic altogether, of which, in a nutshell the benefits of 99 would be harvested, albeit, marginal.

I am a bit of a Vpower guy, but purely because it is so accessible, however, recently, momentum has been the tipple of choice, no difference at all.

Not wanting to make a topic of this point however, I have spoken with and read a considerable more thumbs up from folk rating BP 97. My experience has been limited with the BP 97 however, the experience that I had was that it was not as economical as the VPower.

It does state 98, however it also states 95 can be used with no detriment to engine durability or driveability. 

I've used VPower, Momentum and normal unleaded over the past 18months and never noticed an increase in performance (daily driving) or mpg when using premium unleaded.

My friend has a Porsche and he says he can't run it on anything less than 98, personally I think you should do what's makes you comfortable and in my case I'm comfortable using 95 unleaded 👍

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6 hours ago, Fair and square said:

My GSF manual states premium 98 Octane.

There is an * next to this in my GSF manual stating that 95 Ron can also be used if 98 is not available without any detrimental effect on the engine performance.

Edit: Sorry @Silkmen beat me to it. I took too long to post my reply and didn’t see yours  🤦🏽‍♂️

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Some of the earlier Japanese cars did not have the ability to adjust to the lower octane fuel hence my comment about the cars not running very well at all, but Optimax/V-Power was just the right octane which I believe was readily available in Japan at the time.

Apart from the higher octane which benefits high performance/compression engines (something to do with being able to adjust advance/retard) You'll have to excuse my poor knowledge on this one, I did have it explained to me by the guy who re-mapped but i lost the will to live after 10 minutes.

I've always been of the opinion that the cleaning additives in V-Power is what I paid the extra for. It's a personal choice decision I think, although my mind is now made up for buying Tesco Momentum from here in and enjoy saving 12p a litre, every little bit helps as they say.

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pretty much all fuel has "cleaning benefits" these days as they have an ethanol content

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1 hour ago, Twellsie said:

pretty much all fuel has "cleaning benefits" these days as they have an ethanol content

I always thought Ethanol was an octane booster and did not have the type of cleaning additives V-Power is supposed to have.

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3 hours ago, B1RMA said:

I always thought Ethanol was an octane booster and did not have the type of cleaning additives V-Power is supposed to have.

it is for octane but it also has cleaning properties

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Here you go chaps; read this Malaysian science research. 

 

shorturl.at/ftBN2

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Comedian said:

Here you go chaps; read this Malaysian science research. 

 

shorturl.at/ftBN2

 

 

Just spent a few hours searching, my conclusion so far it looks like Ethanol fuels are hydroscopic, Ethanol can cause problems in older car fuel line components, it has caused some 'plastic' motor bike fuel tanks to look like a big fat ***** has sat on it.

There are so many differing reports both pro and anti, some quite well documented by drivers convinced in one particular fuel.

V-Power is too expensive so in a newish RCF I'll opt to save 12p a litre for the time being and buy Momentum.

 

 

 

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I have used momentum 99 in my 250 f sport since I bought(have occasionally used v power too) with no issues and will continue to do so,did same when I owned my IS 200 sport 👍👍

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Think 95 is recommended for the isf, which is high compared to some countries. 

£1.00 a litre at costco, although I've not filled up for weeks. 

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I've just visited my local petrol station, colossal difference in price for V-Power compared to standard unleaded.

20200417_134308.jpg

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I'm guessing that is just because the v-power is old and purchased when normal unleaded was mid to high £1.2x.

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Shell should have dropped the price of their v power you would have thought by now,momentum 99 my end is about 112.9p

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On 4/6/2020 at 7:19 PM, F.A. said:

There is an * next to this in my GSF manual stating that 95 Ron can also be used if 98 is not available without any detrimental effect on the engine performance.

Edit: Sorry @Silkmen beat me to it. I took too long to post my reply and didn’t see yours  🤦🏽‍♂️

What is weird is that in the tech manual it states 98 but you can use 95 on the GS F but the RC F just state 95 or greater with the same engine and mapping.

*2: Premium unleaded gasoline with a Research Octane Number 98 or higher required for optimum engine performance. If 98 octane cannot be obtained, you may use unleaded gasoline with a Research Octane Number as low as 95. Use of unleaded fuel with a Research Octane Number lower than 95 may result in engine knocking and significantly reduced performance. Persistent knocking can lead to engine damage and should be corrected by refueling with higher octane unleaded gasoline. 

 

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On 4/8/2020 at 5:55 PM, d3ron said:

Think 95 is recommended for the isf, which is high compared to some countries. 

95 RON is the lowest recommended in any country. The US and other countries don't use RON figures and therefore you could see a lower number but that is MON or AKI.

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1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

I'm guessing that is just because the v-power is old and purchased when normal unleaded was mid to high £1.2x.

My thinking as well, but surely at those prices people will switch to momentum and they won't clear their high cost stock for ages.

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7 minutes ago, Silkmen said:

My thinking as well, but surely at those prices people will switch to momentum and they won't clear their high cost stock for ages.

I agree, plus V-Power is known to go 'off' too. I was told the other day that Sainsburys do a premium fuel that is supposed to come from BP, not sure how accurate that is but it's another source of premium fuel all the time V-Power is so expensive.

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Yes Sainsbury's does sell one,think it's a RON 97 same as BP

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