My new (used!) GS450h - a few questions

[R.S.C.]

Hi All,

Finally did it! - I’ve now got a 2012 GS450h! -Really is a stunning car!

I have a few questions and these are likely to be really basic for everyone here -I’m completely new to Lexus and hybrid cars. I’d appreciate your thoughts.

1. Whenever I start the car, it sounds quite noisy and loud -it may just be my expectation but I thought it would be a little quieter. It may be that when I start off in electric and then the engine comes on I don’t notice it as much. Not something that stood out so much when I test drove it.(its just had its 90k service by a lexus dealership -where I purchased the car)
2. While ticking over, just popped the bonnet to have a look around etc, and its sounded again quite tappety -is that normal for this engine? I noticed the oil was on the lower third of the dipstick marks but the engine was running at the time so will check again once the car has been at rest for a short while. Is the noise oil related? Or normal for this sort of engine?
3. Fuel - I’ve had Japanese imports for many years now and have always run them on super unleaded. I know that I don’t need to run the GS450h on super but does anyone on the forum do that? Worth it? Beneficial to the engine etc?
4. Two tyres were changed by the Lexus dealership before delivery...... they’ve been changed to Fullrun Fruntwo! Not a decent tyre from what I’ve read and surprised me that the dealership would put on such budget tyres. Heard some horror stories......worth changing? I’ve never cut corners on brakes and tyres for obvious reasons.

Thanks,

R

[Linas.P]

For 1 and 2 - I wonder if you hearing injectors? Petrol engines in Lexus have direct (high pressure) injection. This is different from port injection (low pressure) and it is quite noisy, similar to diesel injectors sort of noise. You car has both port and direct injection for good measure and that gives good power and economy, but those direct injectors may sound like diesel ticking for some. I found all Lexus being well insulated and this being noticeable only once outside, but not in cabin... either way that is my only guess.

3. This is really not a question about Japanese vs. any other cars... this is generic discussion about "snake oil" and whenever it is worth it. There are good arguments on both sides, but it is not specifically related to any Lexus car or GS450h in particular. It is question equally meaningful for all ICE engines. As for GS450h - it has ECU which will detect quality of petrol used and will adjust accordingly, not going to hurt using either one.

4. I personally would have rejected car with Fullrun Fruntwo or Chinesium Turbofast Accident or any other of dodgy tyres. For me having Fullrun Fruntwo is like having no thread left on proper tyres - not fit for using and should not be fitted on the car. I am not saying that standard fit Lexus Bridgestone Potenza S001 or Dunlop SP Sportmaxx 050 are great tyres, but they represent minimum standard which is needed to be safe on the road. Fullrun Fruntwo is something I would refuse to drive onto. I think even if dealership which sold you the car refuses to do anything about it I would raise it with Lexus UK, because those tyres should not be near Lexus, never-mind fitted on one.

[R.S.C.]

Thanks Linas.P

The only reason I asked re Japanese/other was because in japan they only use super unleaded hence running my other cars on it. Completely take your point and its good to know the ECU will detect and vary as needed.

Re tyres...I was going to call the dealership today and if I don’t get anywhere I will go direct to Lexus UK -completely agree with you but did want to sound it out and be sure I wasn’t being unreasonable! 

 

[royoftherovers]

Congratulations Raj on the purchase.

Which Dealership was it please?

[Linas.P]

53 minutes ago, R.S.C. said:

Re tyres...I was going to call the dealership today and if I don’t get anywhere I will go direct to Lexus UK -completely agree with you but did want to sound it out and be sure I wasn’t being unreasonable!

As per my recent issue with Lexus Dealership it is very important to keep it social, polite and have everything in writing. Sadly, your position legally is quite bad - we live in country where we are expected to report modifications to insurance no matter how minor, but the biggest mod of the all (that is the rubber which connect you to the road) is free for all and unconditional - you can have any black rubber as long as it is 1.6mm or more. And that is ridiculous! But technically Fullrun Fruntwo is road legal as long as it is 1.6mm+.

Now everything will depend on what was agreed with dealership - did they say they will replace the tyres? Is it possible such tyres were fitted by previous owner? And all that will be factors. I consider that is is completely unacceptable if Lexus fitted such tyres, they should not stock such tyres at all, but if it was already on the car I can actually see situation where they simply said - "yes looks brand new, no changes needed". It would be very unusual, but again in used car sales there are many grey areas and none white and black.

My personal position would have been as follows - if the car would be with such tyres when I inspected it I would have asked for them to be replaced with "reputable brand" before I transfer deposit. Ideally with 4 matching tyres, but this is difficult and borderline unreasonable in UK (in other countries it is common sense). If after agreeing to replace them with "reputable brand" they deliver the car like that to me, I would have rejected at the point of delivery, until resolved.

I don't see the difference between replacing tyres with  Fullrun Fruntwo and say replacing wheels with some random aftermarket wheels or replacing brake pads with "generic" brand.. In fact that is probably worse. As mentioned - Lexus have few "standard fit" tyres and that is what suppose to have used, same as you expect any other replaced part to be genuine Lexus/Toyota and not generic replacement.

 

[R.S.C.]

Am I allowed to share dealership info on here or PM?

 

[Linas.P]

Dealerships are official representatives of Lexus brand, so I see no issue sharing dealership names.

Technically even sales reps (dealership staff) represents brand, but I personally would avoid mentioning somebody personally.

[Cactus]

I had a 63 plate gs450h. Dun want to cause any panick but, If anything, it sounded quieter than my wife’s nx300h on start up.

 

barry

[Vlady]

1 hour ago, R.S.C. said:

Hi All,

Finally did it! - I’ve now got a 2012 GS450h! -Really is a stunning car!

I have a few questions and these are likely to be really basic for everyone here -I’m completely new to Lexus and hybrid cars. I’d appreciate your thoughts.

1. Whenever I start the car, it sounds quite noisy and loud -it may just be my expectation but I thought it would be a little quieter. It may be that when I start off in electric and then the engine comes on I don’t notice it as much. Not something that stood out so much when I test drove it.(its just had its 90k service by a lexus dealership -where I purchased the car)
2. While ticking over, just popped the bonnet to have a look around etc, and its sounded again quite tappety -is that normal for this engine? I noticed the oil was on the lower third of the dipstick marks but the engine was running at the time so will check again once the car has been at rest for a short while. Is the noise oil related? Or normal for this sort of engine?
3. Fuel - I’ve had Japanese imports for many years now and have always run them on super unleaded. I know that I don’t need to run the GS450h on super but does anyone on the forum do that? Worth it? Beneficial to the engine etc?
4. Two tyres were changed by the Lexus dealership before delivery...... they’ve been changed to Fullrun Fruntwo! Not a decent tyre from what I’ve read and surprised me that the dealership would put on such budget tyres. Heard some horror stories......worth changing? I’ve never cut corners on brakes and tyres for obvious reasons.

Thanks,

R

Hi Rajinder, Congratulations on the car, these are very good cars! I moved from BMW and even though I still like BMW can't justify buying one instead of Lexus, reliability no where near Lexus!

Point 1. My car when start cold quite noisy too, it was pretty quite when I moved from diesel BMW (even though it was a 6 cylinder engine) but when the car warms up it is quieter, I think it also depends on fuel you use, I prefer Shell as I find the car is smoother and quieter and every 4th or so tank I put in a Super Unleaded or whatever it's called. I also use sometimes injector cleaning additive, may be every 5k miles.

Point 4 - as @Linas.P above I would not accept the car on these tyres, tbh I never even heard of these tyres before! When I was buying my GS rear tyres needed to be changed even though they were way above 1.6mm in thread depth but it was my condition, the garage (not Lexus dealer) agreed and we never discussed the tyre make and only a few days later I phoned them and told them  that I would not accept the car on cheap (Chinese/Malaysian brands) tyres and I would rather pay the difference but get a decent tyres as it is a powerful saloon car! The garage totally agreed with me and said the plan was to put on Avon which I had nothing against it and so it was Avon on the back of the car which I found pretty good. 

Hope it helps.

Attach the photos of the car! We all want to see it! 🙂

Vlad

[LexIS200Sport]

1 hour ago, R.S.C. said:

Finally did it! - I’ve now got a 2012 GS450h! -Really is a stunning car!

Congratulations on your purchase!

2012 GS450h - would this be a 3rd gen or 4th gen GS?

[royoftherovers]

35 minutes ago, R.S.C. said:

Am I allowed to share dealership info on here or PM?

 

Members freely share factual information concerning Dealerships. I have been monitoring such information so as to understand which Dealerships provide what kind of service. Some Dealerships offer high standards of Customer Service, others less so. Some Dealerships have undulating standards, some offer consistently high standards.

[R.S.C.]

Thanks all.

The car is a 4th generation.

This is the car I originally went to see (premier) and test drive with one other (f-sport; a year or two newer and lower mileage) at Sidcup. When we (my dad and I) got there they told me that someone had put a holding deposit on the premier (the one I wanted) so we could look at it but not drive it. The f-sport was still available though. The f-sport was lovely but out of budget. While looking around the premier I noticed a few small scuffs on the rear bumper but didn't pay a huge amount of attention to all details since it was ‘sold’. A few days later I received a call saying the buyer for the premier pulled out for finance reasons and the car was available if I wanted it. I was assured it felt the same to drive since it was the same engine but possibly more comfortable based on the suspension and a few extra adjustments on seats. Also, some aesthetic differences. I could return it if I wasn’t happy.

We discussed on the phone and agreed a reduced price (few hundred pounds), the 90k service to be done, delivery of the car, bumper respray (and any SMART body repairs the car needed -though obviously I don’t expect a used car to look brand new), alloys to be checked over, any tyres close to needing a change to be changed and a full tank of fuel. Pretty good deal I thought.

Some is in writing by means of a confirmation email by me regarding points we discussed.

I have an email saying both bumpers were resprayed, all marks and scratches removed (though spotted a few on body panels) and all four wheels changed. I asked if they meant tyres or alloys but no detail. On the phone I was told two tyres were replaced. I didn't ask which brand because I assumed these would be the same as the car was originally specified with being a Lexus dealership. 

I took delivery when it was raining and only really got to see the car properly the next day which is when I noticed the shortcomings.

I missed the person I dealt with at Lexus when I called today but will speak with them tomorrow. They were helpful when we first spoke and it seemed like they tried to ensure the car was in good condition which is why it surprised me that the tyres were poor. ‘Replaced 4 wheels’ and two tyres (new tread blue line still just visible on them); the other two are both Michelin (one pilot sport 3 and one primacy).

I’m sure its easily resolved and clearly I should have asked but wouldn’t have expected a budget tyre -being a Lexus dealership assumed Bridgestones.

 

 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, R.S.C. said:

Michelin (one pilot sport 3 and one primacy).

I now see even bigger issue - you have one UHP tyre on one side (pilot sport 3) and ultra-eco tyre (Primacy) on the other side. No matter how much I dislike Chinesium tyres, such inbalance could make you loose control of the car when braking on slippery road. Point is - you need all 4 tyres.

It is just a guess so don't read too much into it but I cannot find any other logic how the car was sorted this way. I think they have outsourced car preparation to third party, because it needed bumper respray, they perhaps asked to sort out all the rest, like tyres. Third party shop really just got cheapest parts they could and that is how you ended-up with ASDA tyres.

In this situation my goal would be to to get discount like 50% on the tyres. So in your position I would raise it with dealership as "concern" and if the refuse, maybe even suggest part contribution for replacement. This is because all tyres are road legal, but tyres on one axle are substantially different and tyres on the other axle are unrecognised brand and cannot be trusted, especially on powerful, heavy and expensive car. As I said in many other countries different tyres on same axle are MOT failure, UK is strange one where nobody seems to be bothered (at least on selling side).

Maybe somebody could suggest something better, but this is very hard to argue, because dealership argument can always be that tyres are road legal and brand new.

How long ago you bought the car? 

 

[R.S.C.]

Car arrived on 22nd

[Hangie]

When I was buying my current car from a main dealer, I got a similar case where both rear tyres where on the way out and front ones were not new either.

To avoid situation like here I've just agreed they will drop the price by extra £500 and I'll sort out the tyres by myself. I think this is better strategy as seller will always looks to maximise the profit and will choose the more or less cheapest solution. 

[Linas.P]

11 hours ago, R.S.C. said:

Car arrived on 22nd

In that case you have 30days to return the car which just to be clear I do not suggest, but you can use it to strengthen your argument if needed. You don't need to resolve issues within 30days, as long as you raised this with dealership officially within this period it counts.

As well you should note, that you haven't inspected the car, so it is reasonable that you could not spot or agree details like this.

Is there any other concerns with the car... like brakes ( 😁)? In short I would suggest to take some time and inspect everything you can and just send a list to dealership, saying basically " thank you very much for delivery and what an amazing car, BUT considering I had no opportunity to inspect the car and only doing it now - this, this and that was not as expected or sub-par etc. So I would like it to be fixed or renegotiate".

[Mihanicos]

 

The noise from the engine could be due wrong type of engine oil used, paricurarly wrong viscosity. It could also be due to worn valve buckets and also very unlikely, due to worn valve guides.  You may also have low oil level.

I always use 98 octane unleaded, it gives a cleaner combustion and the throttle body is always clean. It should prolong the catalyst life as well, hopefully.

Chris.

[Shahpor]

Welcome fellow GS450h owner

I also bought my Premier from Sidcup.  I have documented on here previously that it also wasn't prepared very well, but the after service was excellent and all the problems were eventually fixed.

With regard to the noisy engine, mine is also quite tappety, but I am assured they all are the same.  For peace of mind, I have extended my warranty in case there are any issues, but (touch wood) I have had no cause to use my warranty in the 2 years I have owned it.

Regarding tyres, I would insist on either Michelin Primacy 4's or Dunlop Sports Maxx as they are both OEM Lexus brands.

Good luck.

[Linas.P]

 

27 minutes ago, Mihanicos said:

The noise from the engine could be due wrong type of engine oil used, paricurarly wrong viscosity. It could also be due to worn valve buckets and also very unlikely, due to worn valve guides.  You may also have low oil level.

I kind of assumed that this would be in order - i.e. I hoped dealership serviced the car before deliver, or at very least checked the oil level. However, that is good point - considering how rest of the car was prepared, maybe they haven't checked or serviced it.

I feel hydrolic valve lifters (and associated parts) issues were reserved to higher mileage cars (~140k+). I used to have it on my IS250 and indeed good clean oil would solve the noise and I used to change it every 6k miles instead of standard 10k for this particular reason - after ~6-7k the valves lifters would start to stick and make noise on cold starts. As well oil flush would extend the oil life a bit and reduce the noise on cold starts.

[cruisermark]

The GS450h cold start engine noise has come up on his forum many time

perhaps a few members could make short engine start videos and upload them here for others to see/hear and compare with their own cars

[Vlady]

5 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

The GS450h cold start engine noise has come up on his forum many time

perhaps a few members could make short engine start videos and upload them here for others to see/hear and compare with their own cars

Good idea Mark, it doesn't have top be a GS only, any car you own or impressed you with the engine running.

The reason I say that - on BMW forum there is a thread called Shaken not Stirred, basically you open the bonnet and place a half full glass (clear glass preferably) on engine cover and start you car from cold, the amount of vibrations might surprise you. If I remember right - the BMW 535i was the smoothest and you should see diesels and even 2ltr 4 cylinder petrol engines. I did that test for GS but never posted the video as it was not as smooth as I expected even though I just changed engine oil and filters! 🙂

The engine might run smoothly but start up shake can be bad!

If anyone interested let me know and I will create a thread with the 1st video! 😉

 

[royoftherovers]

I`m interested Vlad. Start it up !

Not been drinking something you shouldn`t have been, have you ?

 

[R.S.C.]

An update: had a brief conversation and had been told that all work was done in-house at Lexus Sidcup. They did replace those two tyres with the Fullrun FrunTwo budget tyres that they stock! There are other options but these were never discussed. The matter was passed up to the service manager who will be in contact tomorrow.

(I’m surprised that they even stocked them!)

[KayCee]

17 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Welcome fellow GS450h owner

I also bought my Premier from Sidcup.  I have documented on here previously that it also wasn't prepared very well, but the after service was excellent and all the problems were eventually fixed.

With regard to the noisy engine, mine is also quite tappety, but I am assured they all are the same.  For peace of mind, I have extended my warranty in case there are any issues, but (touch wood) I have had no cause to use my warranty in the 2 years I have owned it.

Regarding tyres, I would insist on either Michelin Primacy 4's or Dunlop Sports Maxx as they are both OEM Lexus brands.

Good luck.

I too bought Mine from Sidcup went all way from Yorks to there  I aggree with Shahpor on all points but the did fit 4 brand new Dunlops on mine

[LexIS200Sport]

20 hours ago, Vlady said:

If anyone interested let me know and I will create a thread with the 1st video! 😉

Keen!