Alternatives to Lexus RC200t/300h

[Rabbers]

Before replacing my 2016 RC300h F-Sport with the 2019 model, I looked at the Mercedes C-class coupé and the Audi A5, test-driving the 200 EQ Sport

and 40 TDI Quattro versions respectively.  I fancied an E-class coupé more but the optionals took it well out of my price range.  I did not consider BMW

because the present cabin design is too austere for my taste.  

 

Frankly, I knew from the outset that I was unlikely to switch from Lexus.  I was happy with the RC, and the longstanding good relationship with my dealer

meant that negotiations for a new car would be quick, painless and satisfactory.   While kidding myself that I was keeping an open mind about maybe

buying one of their cars, my sniffing around Mercedes and Audi dealers was therefore really based on simple curiosity as to whether their grass might

not be greener before I finally committed myself to a seventh consecutive Lexus.  Of course, Lexus' subsequent range reduction means that my loyalty

will not be as strong when I next come to think about a new car, probably in two years or so:   the LC is outside my price range, I don't want an SUV,

and I can't see myself being in the market for a largish family sedan like the ES (whose design I also find a bit naff in an Infiniti-ish sort of way).

 

For what they are worth, my thoughts on the Mercedes and Audi coupés were the following.   Both cars are highly pleasing in terms of aesthetics, build

and materials quality and finish, inside and out, especially the A5, and although numbers on the road are too high for exclusivity, they are nevertheless

each capable, as befits a coupé, of inspiring pride of ownership.  Both are responsive, easy to drive, suited to everyday use in town or country and, no

doubt, capable of long, fast and safe motorway runs.  Leaving aside comparisons between declared top speeds and 0-100kmh figures, which in today's

road and traffic conditions are not easily reproduced and are therefore of largely academic interest, I found no immediate differences in responsiveness

and general driveability that LED me to prefer either car to the 2016 RC, and I have since come to think that the 2019 RC, which I had not yet driven at

the time, is probably more stable, corners better, and is more agile.  Nor could I imagine that the others perform better on long motorway drives, for

which the RC is superb.  Also, having become accustomed to the perfect seamlessness of e-CVT, I did not particularly like the Audi or Mercedes boxes

despite their undoubted excellence.

 

[royoftherovers]

I found that an enjoyable read Renato. Thank you.

[lockhart leitch]

On 11/6/2020 at 11:33 AM, Linas.P said:

That is fair enough I guess... Although criteria is not made for 200t to win, but rather on realistic and practical considerations - like reliability, convenience/technology, comfort etc.

The criteria is there to make choices comparable and reasonable - because without it... then it could be any car. Somebody could come and say "what about £250k Aston Martin DB4? amazing car!" indeed it is, but not a realistic alternative to RC200t.

Would Nissan Z370 meet the criteria - yes it probably would... but I am not boy racer and I don't want nasty looking basic interior and I would rather keep my teeth when going over bumps. 

Same for Jaguar - it is outdated EOL car, which is very unreliable, when I need to go somewhere I don't want to do it in courtesy Toyota Aygo.. It just isn't dependable car.

Mustang comes close - but no close enough. You can get 2.3L eco-boost for ~£25k. So too expensive and not really an improvement, never-mind atrocious build quality.

Dodge - that is non-starter, not sold in UK... I mean if you don't find this criteria "reasonable".. then I don't know what you would.

Regarding the 370z ,if you buy a GT Edition model it's not your teeth you need to worry about it's your ears.Suspension is well sorted and the car goes great but on some road surfaces tyre roar is deafening.I had one for a couple of years but went back to 350z as it was much quieter.Both would leave the RC for dead but it's horses for courses.If i was buying german i would need a warranty !

[H3XME]

On 11/6/2020 at 2:35 PM, Linas.P said:

I don't believe RC-F will cost under £25k in 6-12 months... or even in 3 years time.

Now's your time 🤣

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310132944563

The prices aren't dropping as much as the mileage is rising unfortunately.

[Linas.P]

51 minutes ago, H3XME said:

Now's your time 🤣

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310132944563

The prices aren't dropping as much as the mileage is rising unfortunately.

You see I was technically right - it won't be un £25k in 3 years time... I was right - it took 4 years. 

I was eyeing RC-Fs for a while and I know the yare amazing value at £21k. I definitely would never take red one (or any red car except of Ferrari). 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401105414712

I definitely see above as good value, but for me... I am kind of sucker for "completionism" i.e. it is just basically standard car without a single option. No RCC, no sunroof, no TVD... and for me at least RCC and sunroof are deal breakers, I can live without TVD with just normal LSD, but I would take TVD if its there.

But indeed you are right - values does not fall as they used to... when IS-F was 10 years old it was dipping it's toes into sub-10k... not even 10 years old, it was in 2016 when it reached it absolute bottom and I remember to this day there being beautiful 2009 IS-F with 101k miles for £9,800, I was considering it and week later it was gone, later I have seen it popping-up with 168k and for £14.5k! Even £21k is still a lot of money for 9 years old car that will run out of warranty next year. 

[H3XME]

26 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401105414712

I definitely see above as good value, but for me... I am kind of sucker for "completionism" i.e. it is just basically standard car without a single option. No RCC, no sunroof, no TVD... and for me at least RCC and sunroof are deal breakers, I can live without TVD with just normal LSD, but I would take TVD if its there.

For £21k, and still under warranty technically, it's a not an awful deal for today's climate despite the mileage, but it is reaching the age/mileage where you need to start thinking about water pump, alternator etc. "Problem" with these lexus/toyota cars is that even though some are old, high mileage & rough around the edges, they still drive and will continue driving. That's why the prices won't go down as much as other cars.. There's nothing much to choose from these days (New cars), so if you want a well built toy, you'll be looking for used cars with proper engines like those.

I don't mind not having those options. It's got M&L and that's enough for me. Radar Cruise is effing annoying, not because it's a bad system, but because even on the shortest distance there's a gap big enough for some c#nt to comfortably get in and your car then keeps slowing down and speeding up resulting in ***** mpgs. I understand the system can't be turned down any more due to safe braking distances, so this is a fault of those who don't keep those distances.

As for the diff, I'd take a regular torsen (mechanical) LSD over electric one. Arguably not as good, but less to go wrong when you're looking at 10 year old cars. Applies to many other luxuries.

[Linas.P]

3 minutes ago, H3XME said:

For £21k, and still under warranty technically, it's a not an awful deal for today's climate despite the mileage

Indeed as I said - it is GOOD deal, just maybe not as good as I would like 🙂 

3 minutes ago, H3XME said:

I don't mind not having those options. It's got M&L and that's enough for me. Radar Cruise is effing annoying, not because it's a bad system, but because even on the shortest distance there's a gap big enough for some c#nt to comfortable get in and your car then keeps slowing down and speeding up resulting in ***** mpgs.

As for the diff, I'd take a regular torsen (mechanical) LSD over electric one. Arguably not as good, but less to go wrong when you're looking at 10 year old cars. Applies to many other luxuries.

The sunroof is absolute must for me, I know other people hate them, but for me it is basically most important thing in the car. Especially RC which is kind of crammed and sun roof really gives feeling of extra space. I knows it sounds counter intuitive "car is crammed, so I want sunroof which takes extra 1.5cm of the head space". But headroom in front is not really an issue (I am ~6.1/186), maybe it would be an issue with helmet, but I am not looking to track the car anyway and if helmet does not fit then 1.5 cm probably not going to make that much difference anyway.

Radar Cruise is definitely nice to have, I agree in UK it is pain with horrible lane discipline, but I definitely expect to have this in GT car... but yes you can't use it in heavy traffic.

As for TVD - a yes I agree, LSD is actually more fun, but worse for lap times, but again outside of the track LSD is both, lighter, better on fuel, more fun and totally sufficient. So TVD is not dealbreaker, sunroof is, RCC... well I guess I probably would buy car without one and then I would hate myself for doing it.