70 plate IS300h

[paulrnx]

14 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Careful there - I can clearly see you having bad day, but you need to stop venting it out here.

First of all, I am not sure what was so offensive about my post - jokingly saying that one may use an excuse to own SUV? is that end of the world? Sounds to me like you need to relax or grow-up (mentally). This is internet - if you going to be offended about things like that every time it will take you nowhere. Beside LOC is the best behaved and most friendly forum I have ever seen - there are more bickering and offensive post of woodturning forum or mumsnet.

Nobody is going out of their way here to personally offend you - so just get your pills, book physio tomorrow and go get some sleep!

Pretty much the only person on here who offends me is you Linas. You talk down to people, you rubbish other opinions, you are very obtuse and you never ever admit you are wrong or accept that people can have a different opinion about something.

In your post here you say that no-one is going out of their way to personally offend and you then do exactly that by stating that this poster should get some pills, book physio and get some sleep. Can’t you see this?

This forum would be a much nicer place without you spouting your mantra and going out of your way to offend people. I daresay it would be quite amusing to meet you with a number of other forum members.

I still have this sneaking feeling that you are only 12 years old with no friends and it’s your parents’ cars that you post about.

[Linas.P]

8 hours ago, F.A. said:

The RX has cost no more to maintain than our IS over our 6 years of ownership, it does better MPG and also in pretty sure it’s faster in everyday use than the majority of the current Lexus line up. We also had no issues with parking. 

I feel this comparison is little bit apples vs. oranges. RX450h is hybrid and I assume you comparing it with IS250 (2IS) - so yes MPG will be similar up-to ~ 70MPH is not somewhat better on RX depending on your driving style - that is because it is hybrid. Then when it comes to faster compared to majority of current line-up... I guess you mean that really we comparing against 300h... and again yes indeed 450h will always be faster than 300h - not very fair comparison.

However, if you take 2 comparably priced cars e.g. NX300h and IS300h, then IS will be both more economical, faster, handles better, wear items will be cheaper/and or last longer (e.g. tyres, brakes) and all that is objective differences. Then there is large list of subjective differences and advantages or disadvantages depending on the perspective e.g. one can say SUV is more comfortable, because with higher ride it dampens the bumps better, but I would disagree because I don't feel comfortable when SUV wobbles around the corners due to the same higher ride/higher centre of gravity/softer suspension. Obviously, this is neither here nor there - depending on person it may or may not be an issue, but again there are areas where SUV is objectively worse than saloon. 

21 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

In your post here you say that no-one is going out of their way to personally offend and you then do exactly that by stating that this poster should get some pills, book physio and get some sleep. Can’t you see this?

I would generally agree with you here, but you kind of need to look into conversation from the beginning . It wasn't me calling others twuts, threatening to brake their backs etc. Yes my response there could be considered offensive, but that is justified considering previous post - I would not start speaking in such way with person for no reason. You may not like my style of communication and certainly you are free to have your opinion about it.

21 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

I still have this sneaking feeling that you are only 12 years old with no friends and it’s your parents’ cars that you post about.

May well be! 😁 Some say man always stays as small boys mentally - never grows-up. I would argue maybe even closer to 5 years old in that regard. At least I am not threatening others with violence over the internet - this kind of got out of fashion in early 2000's ... 

[paulrnx]

8 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

There are many reasons to choose an SUV or a saloon. Largely it comes down to circumstances and preference and that’s what I’m reading here.

I used to drive saloons, indeed I had a 2012 Accord that I loved. I still have a MINI Cooper in the garage that I’ve had from new and can’t really drive any more but can’t bring myself to sell it. However, I was born with a disability that now - following multiple surgeries - limits my mobility and will continue to do so as I get older. Simply put, getting in and out of a lower vehicle is very problematic, so I find myself in an SUV. And I like it. My name is Ed and I drive an SUV. There, I’ve said it...

However, even if I wasn’t in that situation, where I live now in (very) rural Wiltshire a RWD vehicle would be a brave choice. With Winter tyres it would be possible I guess, but not really sensible. The newer crop of AWD saloons from BMW / Audi are a good option, but they don’t provide the extra height to see further on single track lanes which I find is very useful. I can’t think of anybody in the village where I live who doesn’t drive either an SUV, a people carrier or an older small FWD hatchback. I had a GS for a few weeks a couple of Winters ago and it was a nightmare - lovely car just not suited - so Lexus gave me an RX instead. Ironically that was a bit too wide for some of the lanes around here...

Anyway, bottom line is that there isn’t any reason to get emotional or personal about vehicle choice. People make their choice for all sorts of reasons and tbh the saloon vs SUV debate on internet forums is like the German vs Japanese car debate and so many others. It’s all just a bit of fun.

I agree completely.

And some of us are sufficiently grown up to know that everyone is different and our choices won’t suit everyone. Which of course is fine. It’s called getting along with people.

[paulrnx]

I wonder how many more brand new IS saloons are available in the UK now? Must be hardly any I would think?

[Linas.P]

Will be at least one or two for each dealership - so my guess just under 100 maybe.

[royoftherovers]

33 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Pretty much the only person on here who offends me is you Linas. You talk down to people, you rubbish other opinions, you are very obtuse and you never ever admit you are wrong or accept that people can have a different opinion about something.

In your post here you say that no-one is going out of their way to personally offend and you then do exactly that by stating that this poster should get some pills, book physio and get some sleep. Can’t you see this?

This forum would be a much nicer place without you spouting your mantra and going out of your way to offend people. I daresay it would be quite amusing to meet you with a number of other forum members.

I still have this sneaking feeling that you are only 12 years old with no friends and it’s your parents’ cars that you post about.

Somewhat strong and in one`s public face, so to speak if I may say so Paul.

I was of a similar view to you, sometime ago and I made the effort to "speak" with Linas via PM messaging. Might I suggest that you consider doing the same?

It might provide each of you to better understand and relate to each other.

I do agree that his contributions can appear downright offensive, but I doubt that our understanding of his Primary Language would not enable us to communicate at all with his kith and kin.

Do try it.Nothing  ventured, nothing gained.

Best wishes.

[paulrnx]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Will be at least one or two for each dealership - so my guess just under 100 maybe.

Sounds plausible

[paulrnx]

7 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Somewhat strong and in one`s public face, so to speak if I may say so Paul.

I was of a similar view to you, sometime ago and I made the effort to "speak" with Linas via PM messaging. Might I suggest that you consider doing the same?

It might provide each of you to better understand and relate to each other.

I do agree that his contributions can appear downright offensive, but I doubt that our understanding of his Primary Language would not enable us to communicate at all with his kith and kin.

Do try it.Nothing  ventured, nothing gained.

Best wishes.

I doubt I’ll do that to be honest. I’d rather call him out whenever he does this if I feel strongly enough. What I’ve posted is very mild compared to what Linas posts so I do hope you also let Linas know whenever he does this. In the interests of impartiality and treating everyone fair of course.

[royoftherovers]

35 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

I doubt I’ll do that to be honest. I’d rather call him out whenever he does this if I feel strongly enough. What I’ve posted is very mild compared to what Linas posts so I do hope you also let Linas know whenever he does this. In the interests of impartiality and treating everyone fair of course.

Thanks for considering Paul.I will not say any more on the subject to you.

[Linas.P]

Roy - as always voice of wisdom!

Sadly, I will have to grow-up quite a bit before I can be like you 🙂

8 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

I doubt I’ll do that to be honest. I’d rather call him out whenever he does this if I feel strongly enough. What I’ve posted is very mild compared to what Linas posts so I do hope you also let Linas know whenever he does this. In the interests of impartiality and treating everyone fair of course.

I am not sure what you find so offensive about my posts. I can assume that my "straight forward" posts could sound "threatening" and perhaps some formalities are lost in translation, but I almost never aim to offend someone, certainly not personally. That said, I am kind of surprised that you and perhaps few other members find them offensive - inconvenient, unrefined, challenging, unpleasant  or maybe demanding... yes could be. But offensive? Really cannot see where you coming from.

You see my view is that the value of the discussion is not how pleasant it is, but how factually correct or informed it is. For accuracy I expect proof to be present, I expect my comments to be challenged and if I feel that opinions are not justified (unless clearly marked as opinion) I will challenge them. Nobody is perfect, I am certainly not perfect - in certain occasions I have quoted opinions as facts and I haven't always justified my comments or provided the proof. If you want to challenge me on something I said - I will actually appreciate it, because I see value in the truth. However, at the same time I can see other members feel offended when their opinion is questioned or their "facts" are challenged.

Point is - I am not trying to be pleasant, that is not the goal, the goal is truth and facts. Journey to the facts may not be pleasant, but I rather be unpleasant on my journey than make everyone comfortable believing in fallacies. I am just explaining why I am the way I am - you don't need to appreciate this and I don't expect you to.

If you ever wanted to PM me and clarify if we both are on the same page then you are more than welcome to. For now I just leave you with these two:  

16 hours ago, steveledzep said:

How dare you, you opinionated twunt...

[and]

If I knew where you lived, you'd have a bad back too, maybe more !

vs.

16 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Careful there - I can clearly see you having bad day, but you need to stop venting it out here.

Nobody is going out of their way here to personally offend you - so just get your pills, book physio tomorrow and go get some sleep!

Do you still think my response was inappropriate... I guess it could be argued we both were inappropriate as this exchange has added nothing to the topic. However, In the interests of impartiality are you really trying to say it was all my fault?

[royoftherovers]

13 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Roy - as always voice of wisdom!

Sadly, I will have to grow-up quite a bit before I can be like you 🙂

I am not sure what you find so offensive about my posts. I can assume that my "straight forward" posts could sound "threatening" and perhaps some formalities are lost in translation, but I almost never aim to offend someone, certainly not personally. That said, I am kind of surprised that you and perhaps few other members find them offensive - inconvenient, unrefined, challenging, unpleasant  or maybe demanding... yes could be. But offensive? Really cannot see where you coming from.

You see my view is that the value of the discussion is not how pleasant it is, but how factually correct or informed it is. For accuracy I expect proof to be present, I expect my comments to be challenged and if I feel that opinions are not justified (unless clearly marked as opinion) I will challenge them. Nobody is perfect, I am certainly not perfect - in certain occasions I have quoted opinions as facts and I haven't always justified my comments or provided the proof. If you want to challenge me on something I said - I will actually appreciate it, because I see value in the truth. However, at the same time I can see other members feel offended when their opinion is questioned or their "facts" are challenged.

Point is - I am not trying to be pleasant, that is not the goal, the goal is truth and facts. Journey to the facts may not be pleasant, but I rather be unpleasant on my journey than make everyone comfortable believing in fallacies. I am just explaining why I am the way I am - you don't need to appreciate this and I don't expect you to.

If you ever wanted to PM me and clarify if we both are on the same page then you are more than welcome to. For now I just leave you with these two:  

vs.

Do you still think my response was inappropriate... I guess it could be argued we both were inappropriate as this exchange has added nothing to the topic. However, In the interests of impartiality are you really trying to say it was all my fault?

1. Linas --A nice post "from your heart" is how I read it,but others as always have and will continue to have different perspectives.

2. You will never, ever, be like me, sunshine......and don`t even try, but do remember that there is more than one way to skin that cat. There is no need to draft War and Peace when Noddy will suffice !

[Spacewagon52]

The SUV vs Saloon debate has many facets. We all have our prejudices, particularly when we are passionate about motoring. For many years I was a rock solid 3 box saloon man. I would NEVER consider buying an estate or a hatchback. Style was more important to me than practicality. My father suggested I buy a Mitsubishi Space Wagon (the original model). I was appalled and said NEVER! While looking to replace my 4 door 3 box saloon (with another one) my wife sat in a Space Wagon which was on the forecourt. She came across and said, "This is the car we should be getting!"

Her reasons were sound and very practical, we bought one. It was a very good decision on my part! Would I go back to a saloon? Possibly not, as there is always a time you need that extra space for moving something or storage for holidays. If it was just me and the wife, no kids or dog, I would look at saloons again. SUV's / MPV's make practical sense. They are NOT that economical or possibly fun to drive if you are a frustrated Lewis Hamilton! Vehicle choice is like life ............. there has to be compromise unless you can afford to run a fleet of vehicles. Imagine you could blow £1,000,000 on a selection of vehicles. Your stable would probably reflect a variety of designs, not all one type.

So we all have to compromise between practical needs and money. It is your choice (and the wife!) that counts. I love the idea of having an IS 300h but it is just not that practical for an everyday car for me. Would I swap my LS400 for an IS 300h? No, for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with practicality or common sense!

[Linas.P]

17 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

2. You will never, ever, be like me, sunshine......and don`t even try, 

No I am not trying to be like you - I just thought wisdom is a universally accepted value and as a matter of fact you have more of it at the moment... and that is respectable.

David - I agree that there are areas where SUVs are more practical, however it seems like in the past only the people who needed that extra practicality were getting them. To be honest I don't care, people who want SUVs will have SUVs, people who don't want SUVs will get something else. The real issue for me is only that market is nowadays so monopolised by SUVs, that they have become de-facto default body style for any car. As it is evident manufacturers simply stops offering other body types altogether and if I am not "SUV" guy then it is clearly an issue.

Looking historically, maybe this trend is temporary - it came from ever increasingly large wheels and low profile tyres trend and cars overly focused on handling, which wasn't that practical and now it goes into overly practical trend which ignores handling. Perhaps when everyone is going to get SUVs they will suddenly become usual and boring. Everyone going to have enough of them and next big trend will be something else.

At least that is my wishful thinking. For now I just have to work on ever smaller choice of "proper" cars and will have to get used to more and more SUVs on the road blocking my view.

[Spacewagon52]

4 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

No I am not trying to be like you - I just thought wisdom is a universally accepted value and as a matter of fact you have more of it at the moment... and that is respectable.

David - I agree that there are areas where SUVs are more practical, however it seems like in the past only the people who needed that extra practicality were getting them. To be honest I don't care, people who want SUVs will have SUVs, people who don't want SUVs will get something else. The real issue for me is only that market is nowadays so monopolised by SUVs, that they have become de-facto default body style for any car. As it is evident manufacturers simply stops offering other body types altogether and if I am not "SUV" guy then it is clearly an issue.

Looking historically, maybe this trend is temporary - it came from ever increasingly large wheels and low profile tyres trend and cars overly focused on handling, which wasn't that practical and now it goes into overly practical trend which ignores handling. Perhaps when everyone is going to get SUVs they will suddenly become usual and boring. Everyone going to have enough of them and next big trend will be something else.

At least that is my wishful thinking. For now I just have to work on ever smaller choice of "proper" cars and will have to get used to more and more SUVs on the road blocking my view.

I understand your frustration.

[F.A.]

4 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I feel this comparison is little bit apples vs. oranges. RX450h is hybrid and I assume you comparing it with IS250 (2IS) - so yes MPG will be similar up-to ~ 70MPH is not somewhat better on RX depending on your driving style - that is because it is hybrid. Then when it comes to faster compared to majority of current line-up... I guess you mean that really we comparing against 300h... and again yes indeed 450h will always be faster than 300h - not very fair comparison.

However, if you take 2 comparably priced cars e.g. NX300h and IS300h, then IS will be both more economical, faster, handles better, wear items will be cheaper/and or last longer (e.g. tyres, brakes) and all that is objective differences. Then there is large list of subjective differences and advantages or disadvantages depending on the perspective e.g. one can say SUV is more comfortable, because with higher ride it dampens the bumps better, but I would disagree because I don't feel comfortable when SUV wobbles around the corners due to the same higher ride/higher centre of gravity/softer suspension. Obviously, this is neither here nor there - depending on person it may or may not be an issue, but again there are areas where SUV is objectively worse than saloon. 

 

Maybe this was not a fair comparison from a speed point of view, but the poster made reference to SUVs as being slow in a separate post. This is simply not true with regards to the RX450h and that was the point I was trying to make. 
I personally feel confident in our RX450h F sport, going around corners. Yes it’s not as planted and direct as our GSF (as expected) but it’s more than acceptable for normal driving on everyday roads. I doubt many of us use our cars in the track where I agree there would be a relevant difference.  

[paulrnx]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Roy - as always voice of wisdom!

Sadly, I will have to grow-up quite a bit before I can be like you 🙂

I am not sure what you find so offensive about my posts. I can assume that my "straight forward" posts could sound "threatening" and perhaps some formalities are lost in translation, but I almost never aim to offend someone, certainly not personally. That said, I am kind of surprised that you and perhaps few other members find them offensive - inconvenient, unrefined, challenging, unpleasant  or maybe demanding... yes could be. But offensive? Really cannot see where you coming from.

You see my view is that the value of the discussion is not how pleasant it is, but how factually correct or informed it is. For accuracy I expect proof to be present, I expect my comments to be challenged and if I feel that opinions are not justified (unless clearly marked as opinion) I will challenge them. Nobody is perfect, I am certainly not perfect - in certain occasions I have quoted opinions as facts and I haven't always justified my comments or provided the proof. If you want to challenge me on something I said - I will actually appreciate it, because I see value in the truth. However, at the same time I can see other members feel offended when their opinion is questioned or their "facts" are challenged.

Point is - I am not trying to be pleasant, that is not the goal, the goal is truth and facts. Journey to the facts may not be pleasant, but I rather be unpleasant on my journey than make everyone comfortable believing in fallacies. I am just explaining why I am the way I am - you don't need to appreciate this and I don't expect you to.

If you ever wanted to PM me and clarify if we both are on the same page then you are more than welcome to. For now I just leave you with these two:  

vs.

Do you still think my response was inappropriate... I guess it could be argued we both were inappropriate as this exchange has added nothing to the topic. However, In the interests of impartiality are you really trying to say it was all my fault?

Q. Do you talk to people face to face in the same way that you write on the internet?

Q. How many friends do you have? I mean real friends that you spend lots of time with because you enjoy their company and they enjoy yours?

[paulrnx]

1 hour ago, Spacewagon52 said:

I understand your frustration.

I agree. If I still wanted a compact sports saloon or a compact sports coupe and I wanted to buy brand new then it couldn’t be a Lexus. Which clearly frustrates a lot of people. Understandably so. It will be interesting to see if Lexus reverse their decision on the new IS.

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, F.A. said:

Maybe this was not a fair comparison from a speed point of view, but the poster made reference to SUVs as being slow in a separate post. This is simply not true with regards to the RX450h and that was the point I was trying to make. 
I personally feel confident in our RX450h F sport, going around corners. Yes it’s not as planted and direct as our GSF (as expected) but it’s more than acceptable for normal driving on everyday roads. I doubt many of us use our cars in the track where I agree there would be a relevant difference.  

Yes - to say that SUV is by default slow is incorrect. RX450h is not even the best example - X5M, X6M, G63AMG, Q7 V12, Range Rover SVR are very fast. And there are even like Dodge Durango SRT with is like 3.7s to 60. The list goes on. But I guess what we can agree with if both car and SUV has same engine (e.g. Durnago and Challenger Hellcat has the same), then the car will be faster.

I personally think that these "performance" SUVs are the silliest thing ever, but RX450h is just about perfect in that sense - it has enough power, but it doesn't try to pretend it is some sort of sports car either.

Finally, it is probably just my driving style but I don't need track to feel uncomfortable with SUV body roll and handling overall. Even on the public road I take corners fast enough for this to matter. But I appreciate that many people don't so it is not an issue for them.

[Linas.P]

23 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Q. Do you talk to people face to face in the same way that you write on the internet?

Q. How many friends do you have? I mean real friends that you spend lots of time with because you enjoy their company and they enjoy yours?

You know what... I actually drafter the response, but then I realised this is not sort of topic to be discussed in the "why not SUV thread".

For now I just say - Q1 - yes and no, Q2 some, yes and maybe. If you really interested, you could always send me such question in PM and I will be happy to respond in more detail.

 

[paulrnx]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

You know what... I actually drafter the response, but then I realised this is not sort of topic to be discussed in the "why not SUV thread".

For now I just say - Q1 - yes and no, Q2 some, yes and maybe. If you really interested, you could always send me such question in PM and I will be happy to respond in more detail.

 

I think we should leave it there and get back on topic

[R07ARY]

Blimey, my first time looking at IS posts, as I'm looking for opinions from owners who may be disappointed Lexus are not bringing in the 2021 gen to the UK. I'm an RC owner who is attracted to the latest IS version, just frustrated we'll  never see it....

Anyway, I've yet to come across a thread on this Forum as a whole that had negative attitudes towards other enthusiasts, until now. Think I'll get back to the low key RC conversations!!. ... take it easy guys.